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Author Topic: SUnday NFL Countdown on ESPN  (Read 8351 times)

goongas

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SUnday NFL Countdown on ESPN
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2003, 11:41:54 AM »
I think ESPN may be at its height right now.  It broadcasts all four major sports, it has interesting talk shows (PTI is great), it offers alternative sports, and has good original programming.

Goongas

clemon79

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« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2003, 11:49:48 AM »
[quote name=\'goongas\' date=\'Sep 8 2003, 08:41 AM\'] I think ESPN may be at its height right now.  It broadcasts all four major sports, it has interesting talk shows (PTI is great), it offers alternative sports, and has good original programming.
 [/quote]
 True on most counts, but IMO \"SportsCenter\" was never better than when Olbermann and Patrick were still working together. It's not bad now (certainly you'll never see me hang the \"unwatchable\" designation on a sports news show), but watching those two work together was like watching Wayne Gretzky play hockey when he was still in Edmonton.
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SRIV94

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« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2003, 12:00:23 PM »
[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Sep 8 2003, 10:49 AM\']True on most counts, but IMO \"SportsCenter\" was never better than when Olbermann and Patrick were still working together. It's not bad now (certainly you'll never see me hang the \"unwatchable\" designation on a sports news show), but watching those two work together was like watching Wayne Gretzky play hockey when he was still in Edmonton.[/quote]
Agreed.  Although I do wish I had seen more of the early days--when Chris Berman and Tom Mees would do the late night SPORTSCENTER (and when ESPN wasn't quite as mass appeal as they are now).  I recall one summer afternoon when Mees got paired with John Saunders (Saunders had already gravitated toward doing ABC's studio wraps and hadn't done many SPORTSCENTERs since), and Mees looked him square in the eye during the opening and said, \"I'm Tom Mees along with. . .John Saunders?!  What the heck are you doing here?\"

I'd expect another big clipfest next year when ESPN celebrates its 25th anniversary (feel old now?  :) ).

Doug--soon to celebrate 100 posts (and the hits just keep on coming)
« Last Edit: September 08, 2003, 12:00:51 PM by SRIV94 »
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Matt Ottinger

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« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2003, 12:38:11 PM »
Quote
Although I do wish I had seen more of the early days--when Chris Berman and Tom Mees would do the late night SPORTSCENTER (and when ESPN wasn't quite as mass appeal as they are now).
This is not only an excellent point (with which I agree) but it's also relevant to the bigger picture of how we look at GSN.  LOTS of cable channels were \"better\" to a core audience of loyalists before they started reaching \"mass appeal\".  As I've said before, I loved the original version of FX.  There are people who wish MTV would go back to showing videos.  I'm sure there are people who preferred the black and white classics on TV Land to the more recent programming they show now.  And, yes, we tend to prefer classics (and classic approaches) with our game shows.

But in every case (and lots more) the difference is a tiny group watching versus a much larger group watching.  In television, the much larger group wins every time.  GSN's ratings drop from a .5 to a .3 isn't nearly the cause for alarm some are making it out to be, when just a few years ago they weren't even getting enough viewers to HAVE a rating.

Those of us who love Black & White Overnight loved it even more when those programs were offered every night in prime time, but just like Australian Rules Football, Breakfast Time, Flock of Seagulls and Ozzie and Harriet, those days are past.
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DrBear

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« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2003, 01:21:33 PM »
What we may be seeing is the drawing of a line as to how small a niche market can get. Or to put it another way, we could have a separate channel for every American over age 5. But that would cost too much. So we start clumping people into groups and targeting channels at them: one for women who like escapist movies, one for men who like T&A (OK, so that's a large group), one for people who like game shows, one for people who like hard news 24-7.
The line is between specializing too much to get enough audience to make a profit, and being too general to keep your niche viewers. (Think CNN; it draws poorly unless there's big breaking news.)
Then add demographics; you are not only going after interests, but interests that buy. That's why you don't see, say, a Nursing Home Channel, even though there could be a lot of programming done for it that would draw well among a certain audience.
And that may be where GSN is; its old audience had reached its limit, and for the network to grow, it had to change with originals, new attempts at programming, and so on. The trick is to do this without alienating your old audience, keeping those niche viewers and building on them.

Or, to bring this back to ESPN and quote Keith (If it's Thursday, I must be back on MSNBC) Olbermann, \"He's day-to-day, but then again, aren't we all?\"
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Game Show Man

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« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2003, 01:40:16 PM »
Quote
Off topic, but ObMe: I have a Venn diagram oh my office whiteboard diagramming the relationship between \"All Things Scottish\" \"All Things Not Scottish\" and \"Crap\". :)

This I gotta see.

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Dbacksfan12

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« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2003, 03:38:54 PM »
[quote name=\'goongas\' date=\'Sep 8 2003, 10:41 AM\'] I think ESPN may be at its height right now.  It broadcasts all four major sports, it has interesting talk shows (PTI is great), it offers alternative sports, and has good original programming.

Goongas [/quote]
 Depends what you define as \"major\" sports.
Ratings wise, NASCAR ranks 2nd behind the NFL, and ESPN does not cover that.
If your counting NHL as a major sport--that's a weak argument; considering that a primetime game on ABC only pulled a 2.6....

And what do you mean by \"good\" original programming?
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melman1

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« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2003, 04:04:25 PM »
[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Sep 8 2003, 06:23 AM\']Please learn to put a little perspective into your criticisms.  Not everything that you don't like is \"unwatchable\".  ...  For some of you, recognizing that as a teenager, you might not be quite as smart as trained professionals twice your age would help too. [/quote]
Gracious, we're touchy.  And I'm many years past being a teenager.  Unfortunately, there isn't a site like this one to discuss ESPN's programming.

I don't know where you'd find a SportsCenter show from the mid 80's, but if you compared it to the current product I think you'd find that the amount of watchable highlights and news is a LOT lower - maybe as much as 50% lower - than what it once was.  Ditto for \"NFL Primetime\".

\"Top 10\" lists and unrelated highlights compiled \"music-video-style\" are not \"watchable\" or \"informative\" content to me.

They bought out \"Classic Sports Network\" and watered down what had been a fabulous hard-core \"classics\" channel too.

I can't point to a single \"style\" or \"content\" decision that ESPN has made in the last several years that I agree with.  I don't care how \"trained\" or \"professional\" they might be.
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Dan Sadro

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SUnday NFL Countdown on ESPN
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2003, 04:38:16 PM »
[quote name=\'melman1\' date=\'Sep 8 2003, 03:04 PM\'] They bought out "Classic Sports Network" and watered down what had been a fabulous hard-core "classics" channel too. [/quote]
 Is that what is now ESPN Classic?  If it is, I understand where you're coming from... for some reason, a 2001 college football game doesn't seem to sit right with me being a \"classic.\"

Quote
\"Top 10\" lists and unrelated highlights compiled \"music-video-style\" are not \"watchable\" or \"informative\" content to me.

Those programs, watchable to you or not, are a different way for people to learn about what's going on in sports news.  Some people respond by different forms of learning, including less formal examples such as this.  

Oh, god.  I'm actually using college course material to rationalize a real-world problem.  Snowballs in hell, definitely.

calliaume

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« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2003, 05:13:10 PM »
Side note, showing how little I paid attention yesterday:

Twice during games, an IBM e-business spot came up where the setting was a game show set.  I didn't get a good look at the \"host,\" but he looked and sounded a bit like Jim MacKrell.  Anybody catch this?

uncamark

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« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2003, 05:47:03 PM »
[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Sep 8 2003, 11:38 AM\']Those of us who love Black & White Overnight loved it even more when those programs were offered every night in prime time, but just like Australian Rules Football, Breakfast Time, Flock of Seagulls and Ozzie and Harriet, those days are past.[/quote]
Although \"Ozzie and Harriet\" were never on TV Land or Nick at Nite--their reruns were on the Disney Channel.

Of course, to lovers of Disneyana, the modern-day \"Rollie Polie Olie\"/Hillary Duff/\"That's So Raven\" Disney Channel's *another* bone of contention, proving that, as Yogi Berra once said, \"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be.\"

melman1

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« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2003, 06:03:26 PM »
Quote
Is that what is now ESPN Classic?  If it is, I understand where you're coming from... for some reason, a 2001 college football game doesn't seem to sit right with me being a \"classic.\"

Yes.  There's a lot more I could say but this isn't an \"ESPN\" board.

Quote
Those programs [\"Top 10\" lists and music-video highlights], watchable to you or not, are a different way for people to learn about what's going on in sports news.  Some people respond by different forms of learning, including less formal examples such as this.

Oh, god.  I'm actually using college course material to rationalize a real-world problem.  Snowballs in hell, definitely..

Well... I really, really doubt that \"education theory\" has much to do with tee-vee programming.
melman1, "some sort of God on this message board" - PYLdude, 7/9/06.

goongas

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« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2003, 06:20:03 PM »
Quote
Depends what you define as \"major\" sports.
Ratings wise, NASCAR ranks 2nd behind the NFL, and ESPN does not cover that.
If your counting NHL as a major sport--that's a weak argument; considering that a primetime game on ABC only pulled a 2.6....

And what do you mean by \"good\" original programming?

The media has normally defined the major sports as the major team sports of baseball, football, basketball, and hockey.  Your points about NASCAR and hockey are well taken.

Playmakers, and the World Series of Poker are two examples of \"good\" original programming, IMO.

Goongas

clemon79

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« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2003, 07:07:39 PM »
[quote name=\'Game Show Man\' date=\'Sep 8 2003, 10:40 AM\'] This I gotta see.
 [/quote]
 It's really very easy to explain:

Draw two circles, next to each other, but not touching. Write \"All Things Scottish\" in one, and \"All Things Not Scottish\" in the other.

Now draw a third circle, such that it completely encompasses the \"Not Scottish\" circle, and intersects slightly with the \"Scottish\" circle. Label that \"Crap.\"

Voila. Proving conclisively that if it's not Scottish, it's CRAP! :)
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BrandonFG

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« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2003, 07:14:41 PM »
[quote name=\'SRIV94\' date=\'Sep 8 2003, 11:00 AM\'] I'd expect another big clipfest next year when ESPN celebrates its 25th anniversary (feel old now?  :) ).
 [/quote]
 If it's anything like their 25,000 episode \"celebration,\" I'll pass. :-P (check the SportsCenter page on Jump the Shark for more)

ObGameShows: Chris Berman hosted a game show in the 80s on ESPN. I know the name, so don't no one try to correct me. :-P
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