Author Topic: On The Cover-What's The Deal? (Read 9157 times)

chris319 · « **Reply #30 on:** August 08, 2004, 02:58:42 PM »

Quote

KCBA is still a secondary UPN

Secondary UPN? Geez, that would put you a notch or two below QVC and The Knitting Channel.

SRIV94 · « **Reply #31 on:** August 08, 2004, 03:39:26 PM »

[quote name=\'opimus\' date=\'Aug 8 2004, 08:44 AM\'] Is WCIU in Chicago the bigest indy in the US? [/quote]
Could very well be, although CBS/Viacom-owned KCAL in L.A. to my knowledge doesn't run any of the net's programming (leaving that to KCBS-2). So the question is WCIU the biggest indy because it's not owned by/affiliated with a major network (Kids WB doesn't count--and anyway they're losing it in September), or does KCAL qualify because its programming is all locally produced or syndicated?

Doug

sshuffield70 · « **Reply #32 on:** August 08, 2004, 07:26:11 PM »

[quote name=\'aaron sica\' date=\'Aug 8 2004, 12:44 PM\'] [quote name=\'sshuffield70\' date=\'Aug 8 2004, 01:17 PM\'] Seems to me Denver had it worse. If I'm not mistaken, 4, 7 and 9 all changed affiliations in the big switch. [/quote]
You are correct there, too.

KCNC-4, which was NBC, changed to CBS;
KMGH-7, which was CBS, changed to ABC;
KUSA-9, which was ABC, changed to NBC.

When MG90 was on, KUSA was still ABC at that point and actually aired the show in a late afternoon time slot, if I'm not mistaken. [/quote]
I lived in the Denver area for three years back when KCNC was KOA and KUSA was KBTV (those call letters are now in Beaumont, Texas) which is kinda why I didn't put the call letters up there, 'cause I'd look pretty damn stupid.

aaron sica · « **Reply #33 on:** August 08, 2004, 07:38:59 PM »

[quote name=\'sshuffield70\' date=\'Aug 8 2004, 07:26 PM\'] I lived in the Denver area for three years back when KCNC was KOA and KUSA was KBTV (those call letters are now in Beaumont, Texas) which is kinda why I didn't put the call letters up there, 'cause I'd look pretty damn stupid. [/quote]
I can't think of any single reason why you would look stupid, although your telling of the old call letters does raise a question, which COULD be stupid -

When KCNC was KOA, did they have any affiliation at all with the campground chain?

gamed121683 · « **Reply #34 on:** August 08, 2004, 08:05:59 PM »

[quote name=\'tvwxman\' date=\'Aug 8 2004, 12:44 PM\'] Best affil switch was Jan 1, 1989 for Miami AND Palm Beach at the same time!

WTVJ 4 (cbs) became NBC (bought by NBC)
WCIX 6 (fox) became CBS (bought by CBS)

[/quote]
...and in 1995 they switched again.

WTVJ 4 (NBC) moved to channel 6 (but kept the same call letters)
WCIX 6 (CBS) moved to channel 4 (who's now WFOR [get it?])

Rumor had it that this year WPLG (ABC-10) and WSVN (Fox-7) were supposed to switch channels as well but I don't believe that matured into anything.

Yeah, the Miami/Ft. Lauderdale area is odd like that.

OBgameshows: The game show pilot "Second Guessers" was shot in Miami.

tommycharles · « **Reply #35 on:** August 09, 2004, 12:14:59 AM »

[quote name=\'aaron sica\' date=\'Aug 8 2004, 06:38 PM\']
I can't think of any single reason why you would look stupid, although your telling of the old call letters does raise a question, which COULD be stupid -

When KCNC was KOA, did they have any affiliation at all with the campground chain? [/quote]
Um... none that I was ever aware of.

Although this raises yet another question in my head:

Did that mean the TV station and the radio station had the same call letters? I thought that wasn't allowed...

(BTW do you live in Colorado, Aaron? Or do you just know a lot about the situation?)

T

Tim L · « **Reply #36 on:** August 09, 2004, 01:04:14 AM »

According to the KCNC-TV 4 Denver Website Metropolitan Broadcasting, which in 1952 bought KOA Radio, put Channel 4 on the air Christmas Eve, 1953 as KOA-TV. In the early days of TV, Co-Owned radio and TV stations could have the same call letters though in many cases they did not at least right away. WNBK-TV 4 in Cleveland was owned by NBC which had WTAM-1100 (was moved to channel 3 later. Also, in Cleveland, WEWS channel 5 had WEWS-FM 102.1 on the air a few months before the TV station to give some of the personnel broadcasting experience. 102.1 became WDOK-FM WDTV channel 2 in Pittsburgh began in 1949 as a DuMont O&O. Was sold in the last days of DuMont as a TV Network to Westinghouse which simply changed the call letters to KDKA-TV 2 same as KDKA Radio-1020.

Tim Lones

Ob:Game Show Down You Go was one of the few shows of any kind broadcast on all four US TV networks ABC CBS NBC and DuMont at one time or another.

DrBear · « **Reply #37 on:** August 09, 2004, 07:59:19 AM »

[quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'Aug 6 2004, 10:40 AM\'] Over the past several decades the number of commercial broadcast networks has grown from three to seven (we'll be generous and count PAX). The number of cable networks has gone from somewhere near zilch to hundreds.
[/quote]
Actually, it's nine, with Telemundo and Univision, both of whom probably have more viewers than Pax.

CaseyAbell · « **Reply #38 on:** August 09, 2004, 08:02:57 AM »

All this talk of broadcast networks is starting to seem historical. The fast nationals for Saturday:

http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/...9863|1|,00.html

Yep, twos and threes. I know it's Saturday. I know it's August. I know the numbers won't look as sad in the fall.

But twenty years down the road, I wouldn't be surprised if the top shows on the broadcast networks are getting ratings like these. For my kids the only indication that the broadcast networks used to hold the nation captive are the lower numbers they get on the cable remote.

The whole idea of stations broadcasting through the air and linked into a network looks so brontosaurus-ish. As long as the networks manage to aggregate audiences a little better than anybody else, they'll survive in some form, I guess. But in the thousand-channel universe, who's going to remember that three channels called NBC, CBS and ABC once ruled the earth?

Oh, if you want to count nine broadcast networks, no problem. Still looks like a painfully small group compared to the large number of cable nets now available, and the much bigger number in the not-so-distant future.

TimK2003 · « **Reply #39 on:** August 09, 2004, 10:16:17 AM »

[quote name=\'tommycharles\' date=\'Aug 8 2004, 11:14 PM\']
Did that mean the TV station and the radio station had the same call letters? I thought that wasn't allowed...

[/quote]
I believe it was either 1976 or 1977 when the FCC required radio & TV stations to split the call-letter sharing if they did indeed share the same calls.

The only ado that was created in Cleveland was that there was a WJW-AM 850 on the dial, and a WJW-TV 8 on the idiot box. Channel 8 wedged in a K into their name, becoming WJKW, allowing 850 to remain the same.

The 'K' remained into the early 80s when 850 changed calls to WRMR. Channel 8 then reverted back to it's old calls. This might have been around the same time when Storer Broadcasting sold their radio & TV properties.

In Akron, their lone TV station (and Cleveland's 2nd ABC station, so to speak), WAKR-TV-23 was related to WAKR-1590 AM. Again the TV station switched calls to WAKC (AKron/Canton) and "Whacker" 1590 remained, and still does. TV 23 died in the early 90s with no warning, and only when PAX was looking for a local Cleveland outlet did Channel 23 re-emerge as WPVX.

Meanwhile, over in Toledo, another Storer property shared the WSPD moniker between its TV channel, WSPD-Channel 13, and radio combo WSPD-AM 1270 and WSPD-FM 101.5 "Speedy Radio". Again the TV station did the changing and became WTVG, which it still remains today, as does the WSPD radio combo.

IIRC, Toledo also had another incident with WOHO-1470 AM and WOHO - Channel 24, where Channel 24 switched calls to WNWO "The Star of Northwest Ohio"

The only change in recent years was the affiliation trade between WTVG and WNWO -- WTVG took ABC and WNWO took NBC in the early 90s.

And then there was the FCC rule that you cannot change call letters into a new 3-letter call unless your station previously had those call letters at one time in the past. That's why WJKW could revert back to the 3-letter WJW call. Chances are if you know of any station nowadays with 3-lettered calls, odds are you'll never see them changing their calls --those IDs are collectors items!

SRIV94 · « **Reply #40 on:** August 09, 2004, 10:32:55 AM »

[quote name=\'TimK2003\' date=\'Aug 9 2004, 09:16 AM\'] I believe it was either 1976 or 1977 when the FCC required radio & TV stations to split the call-letter sharing if they did indeed share the same calls.

The only ado that was created in Cleveland was that there was a WJW-AM 850 on the dial, and a WJW-TV 8 on the idiot box. Channel 8 wedged in a K into their name, becoming WJKW, allowing 850 to remain the same.

The 'K' remained into the early 80s when 850 changed calls to WRMR. Channel 8 then reverted back to it's old calls. This might have been around the same time when Storer Broadcasting sold their radio & TV properties. [/quote]
Maybe someone can unconfuse me. In Chicago at that time the four commercial VHF stations (WBBM, WMAQ, WLS and WGN) all had radio counterparts that shared the same call letters, and I don't recall either the TV or radio stations having to change calls because of FCC mandate. And three of the four still share calls today (only WMAQ no longer exists as a radio station, having been rechristened as sports talker WSCR). So it seems strange that WJW-TV and WJW-AM in Cleveland had to separate calls when stations in Chicago didn't (and it would seem unlikely that a grandfather clause could have been invoked, because that would theoretically protect WJW from having to change calls on either side).

OK, what am I overlooking?

Doug

urbanpreppie05 · « **Reply #41 on:** August 09, 2004, 10:42:14 AM »

The 95' affiliation switch did cause some confusion here in NE Ohio...

Channel 8 went from CBS to Fox,
and 19 went from Fox to Cbs- but because they didn't have an news outlet there, they had to create one. And boy, did it suck. 19's news outlet is just now catching up with the rest of the market-and now it's surpassing other stations! (IMHO, I think it totally sucks)

Channel 8 opted not to pick up the Fox Kids lineup, it moved to religious affil. WBNX-55. For some odd reason though, a few months after the change 8 did run a lame hour of old warner brothers cartoons, called "8 Toons."

A few years later, 43 decided to keep UPN and WB moved to 55. Since both networks had weekday and saturday lineups, 55 ran Fox's in the afternoon and Wb's in the morning. WB got the saturday lineup on Saturday, and Fox's was pushed to Sunday.

Mike, correct me if I'm wrong.

TimK2003 · « **Reply #42 on:** August 09, 2004, 10:46:58 AM »

[quote name=\'SRIV94\' date=\'Aug 9 2004, 09:32 AM\'] [quote name=\'TimK2003\' date=\'Aug 9 2004, 09:16 AM\'] I believe it was either 1976 or 1977 when the FCC required radio & TV stations to split the call-letter sharing if they did indeed share the same calls.

The only ado that was created in Cleveland was that there was a WJW-AM 850 on the dial, and a WJW-TV 8 on the idiot box. Channel 8 wedged in a K into their name, becoming WJKW, allowing 850 to remain the same.

The 'K' remained into the early 80s when 850 changed calls to WRMR. Channel 8 then reverted back to it's old calls. This might have been around the same time when Storer Broadcasting sold their radio & TV properties. [/quote]
Maybe someone can unconfuse me. In Chicago at that time the four commercial VHF stations (WBBM, WMAQ, WLS and WGN) all had radio counterparts that shared the same call letters, and I don't recall either the TV or radio stations having to change calls because of FCC mandate. And three of the four still share calls today (only WMAQ no longer exists as a radio station, having been rechristened as sports talker WSCR). So it seems strange that WJW-TV and WJW-AM in Cleveland had to separate calls when stations in Chicago didn't (and it would seem unlikely that a grandfather clause could have been invoked, because that would theoretically protect WJW from having to change calls on either side).

OK, what am I overlooking?

Doug [/quote]
I could have swore it was an FCC mandate, but then again the call letter changes could have been necessary if the stations weren't owned by the same company anymore. It's more logical, but it seemed like many of the Northern Ohio stations mentioned previously all switched calls within the same timeframe.

(o.b. Game Shows: WJW/WJKW killed off their weeknight game show block at the time with a new Norman Lear 5-night-a-week strip, called "Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman".)

SRIV94 · « **Reply #43 on:** August 09, 2004, 11:08:05 AM »

[quote name=\'TimK2003\' date=\'Aug 9 2004, 09:46 AM\'] I could have swore it was an FCC mandate, but then again the call letter changes could have been necessary if the stations weren't owned by the same company anymore. [/quote]
That may be what I was overlooking. Viacom/CBS still owns WBBM-TV and WBBM-AM/FM, Disney/ABC still owns WLS-TV and WLS-AM and Tribune Company still owns WGN-TV and WGN-AM (Viacom/CBS also now owns the former WMAQ-AM, now WSCR, having acquired it with other Westinghouse stations--GE/NBC had sold WMAQ-AM to Westinghouse in 1987). In these cases, the same company owned the TV and radio stations.

Contrast that with two commercial TV stations in New York that had radio counterparts, but did change their TV calls (WNEW-TV, now WNYW; and WOR-TV, now WWOR). FOX's acquisition of WNEW-TV prolly forced the call letter change since they weren't picking up WNEW-AM/FM. Not sure about the WOR/WWOR situation though--I know RKO General owned WOR-AM, but did they also own WOR-TV at that time?

On the other hand, even though Westinghouse owned WMAQ-AM those calls were kept until 2000 (13 years after GE/NBC had sold it off). Perhaps the FCC looked at each acquisition on a case-by-case basis as far as whether to allow a station to keep their calls.

Doug

MikeK · « **Reply #44 on:** August 09, 2004, 11:57:00 AM »

[quote name=\'urbanpreppie05\' date=\'Aug 9 2004, 10:42 AM\'] The 95' affiliation switch did cause some confusion here in NE Ohio...

Mike, correct me if I'm wrong. [/quote]
You're throwing the lifeline to me?! OK...

WOIO and WJW swapped network affiliations in September 1994. I have several OB episodes of The Late Show with David Letterman from 1994 which aired on WOIO.