Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Things you would done differently Wheel of Fortune  (Read 6290 times)

wdm1219inpenna

  • Member
  • Posts: 220
Things you would done differently Wheel of Fortune
« on: August 10, 2024, 12:00:49 PM »
There could be oodles of things said about this topic regarding various game shows.

In fact, I think I will do separate threads about different game shows both past and present for this.

This thread is devoted to Wheel of Fortune.  I may do different threads for different game shows, or if any one of you wants to start a separate thread about other game shows, by all means please do.

One thing I have always wished Wheel of Fortune could do and would do is to show the Used Letter Board for people watching at home or elsewhere.  Often times at a restaurant for example if the show is on, it's usually muted.  I do like how they now at least show which letter the player called for in the lower left corner of the screen.

Another thing is I wish the show would raise dollar values during subsequent rounds of play.  As it is the wheel's template is pretty much $500 to $900 with one large money wedge out there.  Would be nice if they could add a $1,250 space, a $1,500 space and maybe even a $2,000 space instead of having so many $500 wedges.

With the minimum dollar value on the wheel now being $500, I also wish they would raise the price of vowels to $500 or even $1,000.  $250 made sense 50 years ago but with the elevated money amounts on the wheel, it should be raised, I think $500 is a reasonable price for vowels.

I am glad they got rid of the $1,000 gift tag and the Free Play space on the wheel as well as those 1/2 car tags that they used to have. 

I'd also like to see the show have returning champions again.  Right now of the 5 big game shows on, only Jeopardy and Family Feud have returning champions.  Price is Right and Let's Make A Deal do not lend themselves to having returning champions, but Wheel of Fortune still does.

I'd suggest a 5 day limit for champions unless they win $1,000,000 on the bonus puzzle, then they would retire.

I don't mind the toss-up puzzles, I do like the Triple Toss Up where $10,000 could be won and which could help a player catch up.

I am eager to see the new season with Ryan at the helm to see how he does.  I suspect that is about the only change the show will be making for this season.

I'd love to hear your thoughts.


Otm Shank

  • Member
  • Posts: 441
Re: Things you would done differently Wheel of Fortune
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2024, 03:06:08 PM »
My longstanding peeve is that the prize puzzle bonus is treated as "score money" to borrow a Dick Clark phrase.

Chelsea Thrasher

  • Member
  • Posts: 1710
Re: Things you would done differently Wheel of Fortune
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2024, 03:38:39 PM »
Returning champions:
The primary two reasons for Wheel's adoption of "no returning champions" (aside from their occasionally pulling the Friday Finals out of mothballs for a couple of themed/celebrity weeks) were 1) Sajak's stated preference against champions (he's noted it in an exhaustive number of interviews), and more importantly 2) allows the show to consolidate the number of taping days from 39 to, as of season 41, just 34. (five weeks of episodes contain shows taped at prior tapings but then aired together). Cutting five taping dates saves on studio time, crew expenses, and more, while spreading out other costs over six shows instead of five.

One of those reasons is now gone, however, to add champions back you also have to likely reinstate those five tape dates. Does the benefit outweigh the cost? Especially in the current TV landscape and the death valley that is the syndication market?  For three or five day champions with a limit, the argument is almost assuredly no.  For Jeopardy-style unlimited tapings? It's arguably the best change the quiz show's ever made (see: ratings bump for and source of eventual host Ken Jennings, ratings bumps for Holzhauer, Schneider, et al., with it increasing J!'s social media buzz immensely). Wheel doing that, even if it's a more luck-based game, could be an injection of life into the show that justifies the added costs. If they're going to do it, they need to go all in.

Rest of the show:
I despise the Prize Puzzle as it's currently implemented.  If they insist on keeping it, it should never ever count as "score money", as the other poster noted using the Pyramid term.

I actually really like the Triple Tossup, especially once it occurred to them to start linking the three puzzles together thematically. I also like having the initial play-in one.  Not crazy about the "you get to be interviewed first, and here's $1K" opening one. I'd nix that, bump the other opening one to $3K, and winning it controls both the interview and control for R1 - which I actually liked the one year they did it that way.

They have got to get over their allergy to four-digit wheel values (or at this point, anything outside the $500-$700 range). Low dollar should be whatever the cost of vowels is, and there should be a nice spread up through approx. just over of whatever top dollar is. If R1 is $2500, throw a pair of $1000s, a $1250, and a $1500 on the wheel. R2 for $3500, add on $2000.  When you put $5000 on the wheel, add $2500 back. Once you know the puzzle now, there is basically no incentive to spin again and risk it, especially if it's the prize puzzle.

I love the way that the Crossword and Same Letter categories reward having to think about the puzzle slightly out-of-the-box, and I'd love to resurrect categories like Clue and Fill in the Blank that require a little bit of extra-dimensional thinking.

I liked the Free Play wedge, but if it's gone for good, at least bring back the Free Spin token.  One of my favorite part of watching shows from the 80s, especially as someone who loathes the shopping round, was watching someone occasionally managing to bank an absurd number of free spin tokens, so if they wanted to go all in on a free spin *wedge* again I wouldn't even mind.

Wild Card should be able to be used for vowels in the bonus round. It should be able to be automatically exchanged for top dollar in the main game since that's the only time people use it anymore, with the catch that if the letter you call with it isn't in the puzzle, it counts as a bankrupt instead of a lost turn.

As much as people don't like to go on game shows to win things outside of cars/cash and occasionally trips, I REALLY miss Wheel's more eccentric prizes and prize packages of the 80s and 90s.  I'd love to see them get back to those, with the possible tradeoff that every prize except the cash itself now comes with a base level of cash. ("And for gas money, we've stocked the trunk of this Volvo with good ol' American cash, FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS!"). Pair that with champions and it's a lot more interesting.

For it's faults, the shopping era - and the vastly superior IMO first decade-ish of the cash format - had this whimsy that the show gave up in the late 90s in the name of a more efficient production. I'd just love to see the show try to recapture that.

Kevin Prather

  • Member
  • Posts: 6749
Re: Things you would done differently Wheel of Fortune
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2024, 04:06:13 PM »
As much as people don't like to go on game shows to win things outside of cars/cash and occasionally trips, I REALLY miss Wheel's more eccentric prizes and prize packages of the 80s and 90s.  I'd love to see them get back to those, with the possible tradeoff that every prize except the cash itself now comes with a base level of cash. ("And for gas money, we've stocked the trunk of this Volvo with good ol' American cash, FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS!").

Interestingly, many of those more eccentric prizes were items that actually appreciate in value (jewelry, artwork, rare documents, etc.) and some would probably consider them more desirable than trips for that reason. I'd love to see those come back.

Returning champions:
For Jeopardy-style unlimited tapings? It's arguably the best change the quiz show's ever made (see: ratings bump for and source of eventual host Ken Jennings, ratings bumps for Holzhauer, Schneider, et al., with it increasing J!'s social media buzz immensely). Wheel doing that, even if it's a more luck-based game, could be an injection of life into the show that justifies the added costs. If they're going to do it, they need to go all in.

Is there a likelihood of a mega champ on a luck-based game like Wheel? Especially if they continue doing the Prize Puzzle the way they're doing it? Fixing the Prize Puzzle as you said would help, but I still can't imagine someone winning more than five or six games before the wheel starts being unkind.

Jeremy Nelson

  • Member
  • Posts: 2889
Re: Things you would done differently Wheel of Fortune
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2024, 04:32:50 PM »
They have got to get over their allergy to four-digit wheel values (or at this point, anything outside the $500-$700 range). Low dollar should be whatever the cost of vowels is, and there should be a nice spread up through approx. just over of whatever top dollar is. If R1 is $2500, throw a pair of $1000s, a $1250, and a $1500 on the wheel. R2 for $3500, add on $2000.  When you put $5000 on the wheel, add $2500 back. Once you know the puzzle now, there is basically no incentive to spin again and risk it, especially if it's the prize puzzle.
I think it was Adam Nedeff who mentioned on socials that a family member of his noticed how homogeneous the wheel values were, further accentuating that this is a real problem that people outide of us are noticing.

The wheel should be the most fun part of the show and spins short of a penalty space or top dollar are just boring vehicles to the puzzle solving. Chelsea's proposed configuration sounds a-ok to me.

Quote
I REALLY miss Wheel's more eccentric prizes and prize packages of the 80s and 90s.
While I'm totally okay with the $42,000 greenhouse going away, I do miss, at base level, some variety. With studies showing that most people value experiences over things, that $50,000 shipboard party might be right at home now. There are plenty of other desirable wheel prizes to add to the main game, and through the tech boom of the last 15 or so years, it seems like a massive miss for Sony to rarely ever include their tech as prize fodder for the show. I surely wouldn't turn my back on a 100'' Bravia television.

Other thoughts:

-The million dollar wedge needs to go. I thought it was cool for a few years, but it's become like Syndicated Millionaire where yeah, it's a prize you offer, but when it hasn't been won in a decade by a civilian, the whole thing feels like an exercise in futility. Plus, game shows in general have gone away from the seven figure jackpot, so Wheel looks tired in comparison by keeping theirs. If you want to up the bucks for the bonus round, just create a Double Jackpot wedge to be collected in the main game.

-I honestly do like the hook of a few recent theme weeks having enhanced bonus round prizes. I liked the Margaritaville Home and the WWE experience, and I LOVED the BetMGM running jackpot. More of that, please.

-Growing up I loved Wheel's set design choices- it always seemed half game show, half Las Vegas casino, and I think it lost some of that when Million Colors of Light became the entire design language. Obviously this is changing as we speak, but I hope the new design permeates more than the puzzle board. Give me more gaudy.

-Vowels need to go up. They should be premium clues, not 5 for $1 in the bargain bin. I know it's stayed the same partially to expedite puzzle solving, but that rationale made sense during a time when we didn't have 9-10 puzzles, not including the bonus puzzle. Speaking of...

-It's time to go back to five cononants and a vowel in the bonus round. When the studio is booing your bonus puzzles and you're one step away from using SEXY PIZZA to save budget, we need a change. Going back to the original recipe allows for fairer puzzle writing and makes the Wild Card a more premium get from the wheel.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2024, 04:43:28 PM by Jeremy Nelson »
Fact To Make You Feel Old: Just about every contestant who appears in a Price is Right Teen Week episode from here on out has only known a world where Drew Carey has been the host.

BrandonFG

  • Member
  • Posts: 18487
Re: Things you would done differently Wheel of Fortune
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2024, 04:43:28 PM »
My longstanding problem with Wheel is that it's become comfort food because they won't let the show simply breathe. I've said this here before, but in a universe where so many shows pad to fill an hour, Wheel is the rare case of too much game, and not enough show. The syndicated version doesn't need to expand to an hour, but we also don't need four rounds, plus a half-dozen Toss Ups, and a Final Spin and bonus puzzle. This show lost its personality somewhere in the last 20 years, and didn't seem to get it back until the Celebrity run and during Pat's final weeks because they take the time to stop and talk to the players.

Open with the contestant icebreaker ("We drew numbers to see who would start the game") then play three puzzles. Throw in a Triple Toss Up to get trailing contestants back in the game - I love that they augment a player's total to 10K if they run the table here, then the Final Spin. I do agree the wheel needs more variety, and also agree the Prize Puzzle should not weigh on the score since it more or less determines the day's winner. I love some of the things they've introduced like the Express space or the Crossword puzzles.

More than anything, I want the puzzles to actually feel like normal puzzles. Stop trying to shoehorn adjectives into a puzzle you would never say in real life, esp. during the Prize Puzzle or bonus round. I've also said that Vanna's first puzzle of GENERAL HOSPITAL would now be preceded with "AWARD-WINNING SOAP OPERA". Keep it simple.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2024, 07:01:10 PM by BrandonFG »
"They're both Norman Jewison movies, Troy, but we did think of one Jew more famous than Tevye."

Now celebrating his 22nd season on GSF!

Chelsea Thrasher

  • Member
  • Posts: 1710
Re: Things you would done differently Wheel of Fortune
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2024, 04:50:01 PM »
-It's time to go back to five cononants and a vowel in the bonus round. When the studio is booing your bonus puzzles and you're one step away from using SEXY PIZZA to save budget, we need a change. Going back to the original recipe allows for fairer puzzle writing and makes the Wild Card a more premium get from the wheel.

It feels like it's the puzzles themselves more than the free letters though.  The Free Six + Four More worked beautifully in the earlier years. "FURY? "BOW-TIE?" Challenging to get, but it didn't usually leave you feeling like the writers were deliberately being rat bastards about it. There was an element of luck with letters, but nothing ever out of bounds - and you always got three chances if you kept winning, so hey.

NOW they're asking contestants to solve, all real examples from this past season: A POPULAR BOUTIQUE, QUICK FAVOR TO ASK, A LIVELY BUNCH OF KIDS (consecutive eps), PAINTING A VIVID PICTURE, FABULOUS SHINDIG, on and on. No wonder the audience is legitimately beginning to turn against them, even the casuals. 6+4 worked just fine IMO until the producers got deliberately obtuse and overly cute about puzzle solutions in the 2000s.

aaron sica

  • Member
  • Posts: 5818
Re: Things you would done differently Wheel of Fortune
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2024, 06:56:36 PM »
This board has really had a great number of good threads as of late. I love it.

I honestly don't have much to add except to agree with some points:

- I also hate that the prize puzzle basically decides the game.
- I'm not a fan of the lack of variety with the dollar amounts on the wheel.

$5,000 seemed like a big deal for the nighttime version in 1983. Adjusted for inflation, that's almost $16,000 now. The space doesn't have to be THAT much, but why not raise a little?

One gripe I had for a long time, they actually fixed - if the show is "Wheel of Fortune", why not figure a wheel into the bonus round, too?

Joe Mello

  • Member
  • Posts: 3479
  • has hit the time release button
Re: Things you would done differently Wheel of Fortune
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2024, 07:06:47 PM »
More than anything, I want the puzzles to actually feel like normal puzzles.
Not me. If anything, I want them to get weirder, at least in a sense.

If curating my own games of Wheel of Fortune for fun and discounted general admission for nearly 8 years has taught me anything, it's that Wheel is a game about reading. It doesn't matter if you know a single person, place, or thing (or know the difference between a consonant and a vowel), if you can string words together you have a chance to win. One reason why I think Celebrity Wheel of Fortune has worked despite some janky mechanics is that the puzzles can get incredibly silly. So for me, less "ENJOYING THE LOCAL CUISINE" and more "WAKING UP WITH THE WORST HEADACHE" or "FINALLY DELETING SOCIAL MEDIA."

I think Family Feud and 25WOL are two decent and varied examples of why returning champions isn't a salve
This signature is currently under construction.

BrandonFG

  • Member
  • Posts: 18487
Re: Things you would done differently Wheel of Fortune
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2024, 07:19:55 PM »
They have got to get over their allergy to four-digit wheel values (or at this point, anything outside the $500-$700 range). Low dollar should be whatever the cost of vowels is, and there should be a nice spread up through approx. just over of whatever top dollar is. If R1 is $2500, throw a pair of $1000s, a $1250, and a $1500 on the wheel. R2 for $3500, add on $2000.  When you put $5000 on the wheel, add $2500 back. Once you know the puzzle now, there is basically no incentive to spin again and risk it, especially if it's the prize puzzle.
For craps and giggles, I looked up a 1975 round one wheel compared to the last several years. I knew there's very little variety today, but I didn't realize that it was nothing over $900 outside of the big money spaces, which is crazy. The early years had several spaces that ended in $25 increments, so while I don't think we need something like a $1,375 space, it would be nice to get away from what they have now.

I think a show that offers up to seven figures every day should be able to go up to $2,000 for R1. Piggybacking off Aaron's point, $300 in '75 is about $1,700 now. Make the $2,500 the Top Dollar Value* in the first round and add $1,000 to the rotation as a regular space........along with values in between like $1,100, $1,250, $1,500, and so forth.

The vowel price still being $250 doesn't really bother me, but if you increase the values on the wheel I'd be fine with vowels being worth $500.

*Or is that already TDV for R1?
"They're both Norman Jewison movies, Troy, but we did think of one Jew more famous than Tevye."

Now celebrating his 22nd season on GSF!

BrandonFG

  • Member
  • Posts: 18487
Re: Things you would done differently Wheel of Fortune
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2024, 07:27:51 PM »
So for me, less "ENJOYING THE LOCAL CUISINE" and more "WAKING UP WITH THE WORST HEADACHE" or "FINALLY DELETING SOCIAL MEDIA."
I looked up an episode from last year. Not counting the Toss-Ups, the puzzles were

Thing: BLUEPRINT FOR SUCCESS (I'd argue that's a Phrase but whatever)
Before and After: ONCE UPON A TIME ZONE
Places: CRYSTAL CLEAR LAGOONS
Person: BLUE-RIBBON WINNER

Bonus round Phrase: PAY THEM A VISIT

I've seen worse arrangements (see Chelsea's examples), but outside of the first two rounds it's still a little too quirky for me. The bonus round puzzle feels clunky in a way I can't put my finger on. Maybe if it were only one puzzle like that per game I wouldn't mind as much.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2024, 09:17:24 PM by BrandonFG »
"They're both Norman Jewison movies, Troy, but we did think of one Jew more famous than Tevye."

Now celebrating his 22nd season on GSF!

TLEberle

  • Member
  • Posts: 15843
  • Rules Constable
Re: Things you would done differently Wheel of Fortune
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2024, 07:37:05 PM »
This might be off the reservation, but ok. Round one starts with $2500 top value, this escalates by that much with each puzzle solved. (either always a $0 toss-up for control or move through the panel). Yes, West Virginia, this means that there could be "round five, $12,500 is our top dollar value.")

I think I've mentioned this to Adam, but if it's mine to do round three becomes the trippy round. Amounts alternate from four figures, to $17 or $295, then something people would be more accustomed to. Having one third of the amounts between $1,000 and $2,500 would allow someone the chance to mount a comeback with a good run. Two bankrupt, two lose-a-finger spaces on the wheel, maybe something like minus $1,000 or steal cash for filling in a space. Follow your bliss. Perhaps there could be "one free solve" on the wheel as a spiffy prize. Surprise, Jackpot, Conjoined Twins Double Play--do whatever you want. Sprinkle liberally throughout.

When time is running short we move into the Countdown Round. Most money so far has to solve two puzzles, second three and top four or five, less one for whoever grabbed the token in round three. Countdown to zero and you come back the next day, until the eighty-game winner collapses from exhaustion or decides to cash out because kids have been saying good night to a picture frame. Everyone keeps what they could bag for a correct solve.

And, scene.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2024, 09:10:48 PM by TLEberle »
If you didn’t create it, it isn’t your content.

MSTieScott

  • Executive Producer
  • Posts: 1896
Re: Things you would done differently Wheel of Fortune
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2024, 09:25:26 PM »
With the caveat that I'm not a regular viewer...

Based on the thread so far, maybe I'm in the minority, but I do not like the crossword. It feels gimmicky (look at us spell words vertically on our puzzle board!), it feels restrictive because one or two of the words has to be three or four letters long, and for a show that tries to cram as many letters into puzzles as possible, there are very few consonants to uncover (what with the overlapping). If a contestant can't figure out one word because it's mostly unique letters, there are fewer context clues and it doesn't allow for the same satisfying sense of superiority from the home viewer. Once every few years, you get that awkward moment when a contestant instinctively throws in an "and" and loses because of it. And listening to somebody solve the puzzle by saying four random words in an order that isn't necessarily the order I the viewer am processing them feels less definitive.

I too dislike the forced whimsy. A couple of years ago, I was watching Celebrity Wheel of Fortune with a friend who doesn't regularly watch Wheel, and when he was trying to figure out the Phrase and found out it was one of those uncommonly expressed thoughts (the category should more accurately be Sentence), he felt bamboozled -- he was expecting Phrase to be a phrase the average person has heard of. If the show wants to be cute and clever, they have to warn the audience ahead of time (see Before & After, which is a perfectly fine category).

I've long advocated for a wider spread of dollar values on the wheel, although not as high as Chelsea is proposing (if the top dollar value is $5,000, a $2,500 wedge makes the top dollar value less special). I'd go as low as one or two $200 spaces... make buying a vowel mean something.

I think the genie is out of the bottle on bonus round letter selection. If only allowed five consonants and a vowel, 99% of contestants would go back to RSTLNE (which is why the rule was changed in the first place). Yeah, it would allow for difficult bonus puzzles that aren't tenuously connected adjectives and nouns, but it ain't gonna happen. Does the show gain anything by letting the contestants choose the bonus round category? No one in their right mind chooses Thing, and before category selection was implemented, Thing was how the show got a lot of its bonus round losses.

Jeremy Nelson

  • Member
  • Posts: 2889
Re: Things you would done differently Wheel of Fortune
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2024, 09:44:41 PM »
*Or is that already TDV for R1?
$2500 is already TDV. Couldn’t tell you exactly when they got rid of the $1000 space but we may be closing in on 20 years since its retirement. It was definitely gone by the time they upped the Mystery wedges from $500 to $1000.
Fact To Make You Feel Old: Just about every contestant who appears in a Price is Right Teen Week episode from here on out has only known a world where Drew Carey has been the host.

Ian Wallis

  • Member
  • Posts: 3800
Re: Things you would done differently Wheel of Fortune
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2024, 10:09:43 PM »

I've long advocated for a wider spread of dollar values on the wheel, although not as high as Chelsea is proposing (if the top dollar value is $5,000, a $2,500 wedge makes the top dollar value less special). I'd go as low as one or two $200 spaces... make buying a vowel mean something.


When the nighttime version debuted they replaced the $2000 space from the daytime version with $5000 and still had a $1500 space.  I would maybe go back to that kind of configuration.  I agree that it should be special, but it's too big a jump from $900 to $5000 without something in between - at least one other four-figure amount.
For more information about Game Shows and TV Guide Magazine, click here:
https://gamesandclassictv.neocities.org/
NEW LOCATION!!!