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Author Topic: Two Sale of the Century inquiries  (Read 7151 times)

RMF

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Re: Two Sale of the Century inquiries
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2022, 04:43:27 PM »
In terms of #2, I'd argue "not proven" for anything other than what has been regularly rerun, in two separate regards:

1) Without having access to evidence backing the claim about Fremantle's holdings (such as a vault inventory), the fact that the claim there is second or third-hand at best (even without a questionable hand being one of those in question) makes a claim that there are definitely hundreds of additional master copies questionable.

2) At the same time, however, the fact that Mitt Dawson made a claim doesn't make it automatically so- apparently, he also made such a claim about production materials for the program that have since turned up, and, as someone involved in other aspects of lost media, one must take care with assuming all claims coming from the people involved with shows are accurate, as there have been cases of myths being spread by those in such positions.

Similarly, it's hard to say if the rerun evidence can be used as definite proof- note, for instance, how the Library of Congress's recent inventorying of Mark Goodson's donations has demonstrated runs of G-T programs that have never been rerun, or similar claims by some folk here (and ones who can be considered reliable on this subject) about programs long regarded as lost that were better preserved than previously believed.

As such, I suspect that, absent hard evidence turning up, that this is unresolvable on the basis of current information- and that things could change quickly, as the recent accounts concerning the preservation of Canadian game shows demonstrates.

CoreyArcher

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Re: Two Sale of the Century inquiries
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2022, 09:35:47 PM »
My only guess is that perhaps the masters were disposed of after the American branch of the company shut down.

Surely somebody would have snatched those up and took them home and put them in the attic next to their Atari cartridges. Is everyone in the office really just gonna call it a day while knowing those tapes — years of quality entertainment — are going out to the dumpster to be lost forever? It's mind-boggling if those are simply gone for that reason.

steveleb

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Re: Two Sale of the Century inquiries
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2022, 05:45:38 AM »
Guys
I spent a year being paid to answer these questions along with Fremantle lawyers who were in the process of acquiring the rights at the time.  I was in a position to offer money to run these episodes so I think they were more motivated than Jason Vahan or any other shut in speculator to be honest.

Every single fact that Mitt shared in his lifetime with you was accurate.  What exists in BROADCAST quality is what you see.  The syndicated episodes exist only because they were bicycled and dubs needed to be made on a regular basis as new stations signed on.  The late 80s were the first time when discussions of library genre channels began and producers were urged to save masters they owned rights to for potential back end sales.

I know in 2022 many of you can’t fathom people were that stupid as to trash history and what you consider to be holy grails. Yes occasional gems emerge like 70s Squares and Jokers.  But most of those in charge then were neither prescient or financially capable enough than say Goodson was to preserve history in a manner like you.  And home tapings were simply not up to technological sniff to produce a copy that could be prepared for air.  Believe me I argued this with tech supervisors at GSN constantly.

Rather than bitch and spend your lives chasing rumors from uninformed schmucks who would watch a grainy transmission from outer space in the hopes that a time lag transmission of Joe Garagiiola’ Memory Game may still be out there being consumed by a confused alien I think it would be wise for you to accept that building a home collection from traders you know better than I may be your best route.  Expecting a network to be your personal reservoir for entertainment is short cited and frankly arrogant.

Film preservation buffs face the sane realities.  Some history is simply lost. 

I’ll tell you this much. I’m pretty sure Reg didn’t flush his masters down a toilet flushing 15 times.

Gay gezinta hate

SuperMatch93

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Re: Two Sale of the Century inquiries
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2022, 07:44:58 AM »
Quote from: steveleb link=topic=33810.msg395838#msg395838
Expecting a network to be your personal reservoir for entertainment is short cited and frankly arrogant.

QFT. Excellent post as always.
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"30 years from now, people won’t care what we’re doing right now." - Bob Barker on The Price is Right, 1983

aaron sica

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Re: Two Sale of the Century inquiries
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2022, 01:51:43 PM »
Expecting a network to be your personal reservoir for entertainment is short cited and frankly arrogant.

More people need to realize this. Thanks as always for your awesome contributions.

RMF

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Re: Two Sale of the Century inquiries
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2022, 03:42:49 PM »
I spent a year being paid to answer these questions along with Fremantle lawyers who were in the process of acquiring the rights at the time.  I was in a position to offer money to run these episodes so I think they were more motivated than Jason Vahan or any other shut in speculator to be honest.

Every single fact that Mitt shared in his lifetime with you was accurate.  What exists in BROADCAST quality is what you see.  The syndicated episodes exist only because they were bicycled and dubs needed to be made on a regular basis as new stations signed on.  The late 80s were the first time when discussions of library genre channels began and producers were urged to save masters they owned rights to for potential back end sales.

Thank you so very much for your answer- it's always good to have some light shed, and agreed on some of the other points.

BrandonFG

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Re: Two Sale of the Century inquiries
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2022, 04:22:48 PM »
I echo everyone else's gratitude, Steven. Always look forward to reading your insightful posts.
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SuperMatch93

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Re: Two Sale of the Century inquiries
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2022, 06:42:40 PM »
Something that occurred to me: does anyone know of any other game shows that were still bicycled by 1985-86 or later? I had figured that by that late date more shows would be moving to satellite transmission; I recall reading somewhere that the Griffin shows had done so.
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thomas_meighan

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Re: Two Sale of the Century inquiries
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2022, 12:23:51 AM »
Given that network $OTC wasn’t kept at the time, I wonder what was done with the masters for “Time Machine” and “Hot Streak.” Neither has been rerun, although at least episode #44 of the latter exists as a master (posted by Winc).

Not to take the thread too far afield of $OTC, but I suppose the other long-running 80s network show for which we don’t have precise survival information is daytime WOF. Occasional masters exist as early as 1975-76, based on what the Paley Center has and what GSN aired in 2007, but do know *exactly* how much was kept continuously — if anything — other than vague suggestions that it was retained starting in the mid-80s?

Bryce L.

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Re: Two Sale of the Century inquiries
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2022, 01:12:29 AM »
Not to take the thread too far afield of $OTC, but I suppose the other long-running 80s network show for which we don’t have precise survival information is daytime WOF. Occasional masters exist as early as 1975-76, based on what the Paley Center has and what GSN aired in 2007, but do know *exactly* how much was kept continuously — if anything — other than vague suggestions that it was retained starting in the mid-80s?
Eh, who know, who cares? It's not like GSN gives a rat's ass about running Wheel anymore, so short of private collectors leaking their material, we'll never see any of it.

steveleb

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Re: Two Sale of the Century inquiries
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2022, 10:46:35 PM »
I believe Yahtzee and majority rules were bicycled in their days.  Not sure about lingo

steveleb

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Re: Two Sale of the Century inquiries
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2022, 10:47:36 PM »
And thank you for your gratitude.  It’s nice to be appreciated

Jimmy Owen

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Re: Two Sale of the Century inquiries
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2022, 02:27:14 PM »
I believe Yahtzee and majority rules were bicycled in their days.  Not sure about lingo
Lingo may have been bicycled, as Channel 7 in Detroit aired it after it had gone out of production.
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Ian Wallis

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Re: Two Sale of the Century inquiries
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2022, 09:38:49 AM »
Something that occurred to me: does anyone know of any other game shows that were still bicycled by 1985-86 or later? I had figured that by that late date more shows would be moving to satellite transmission; I recall reading somewhere that the Griffin shows had done so.

Re Griffin shows - I'm pretty sure that Wheel of Fortune was bicycled in its first year (1983-84).  The Buffalo and Rochester stations were two weeks out of sync the whole season.  When the second nighttime season started in Sept 1984, those two stations were now running the exact same episode, as was a Toronto station that also picked it up that year.
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chrisholland03

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Re: Two Sale of the Century inquiries
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2022, 09:58:57 AM »
I believe Yahtzee and majority rules were bicycled in their days.  Not sure about lingo
Lingo may have been bicycled, as Channel 7 in Detroit aired it after it had gone out of production.

We got Break the Bank Rayburn/Farago on one of our local independents after production as well.  Not sure if that was bicycling or desperation.