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Author Topic: Game Show Pilot Question  (Read 13971 times)

scully24

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Game Show Pilot Question
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2004, 12:43:11 PM »
Re:  the walk-off, I just meant that after the salute, he turned around kind of smartly and made his way for the contestants, but it conjured up impressions of a Dick Clark-style exit.

Go was a really fun show, I agree.  The rap on the show by staff members I talked to after it was cancelled was that it was more fun to play than it was to watch.  It was a blast to come up with those questions, but they felt that viewers at home couldn't easily play along mentally, and so for the home audience the show was perhaps more spectacle than game.  On most of the really great game shows that have survived, you find yourself trying to solve the material along with the contestants.  On Go, you can't really play along--you can only watch.

clemon79

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Game Show Pilot Question
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2004, 01:13:52 PM »
[quote name=\'scully24\' date=\'Feb 9 2004, 10:43 AM\'] On Go, you can't really play along--you can only watch. [/quote]
 Same rap on the front game of Pyramid, really, and look what a classic that's become.

(Of course, the die-hards can cover up the bottom of the screen, like on Pyramid, if you want to play along.)

The play-along factor doesn't HAVE to be there to make for a classic game show. It helps, but it doesn't HAVE to be there. Watching a team bust off 5 answers in thirty-and-change seconds, and then watching the other team come down and BEAT that, is as good a moment as you'll see on any game show.
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scully24

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Game Show Pilot Question
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2004, 01:30:27 PM »
Quote
The play-along factor doesn't HAVE to be there to make for a classic game show.


I agree, and I thought of Pyramid when I wrote the comments about Go.  But anyhow, that was the conventional wisdom everybody was giving at the time for why Go was canceled.

I think Go had other problems, worse than the play-at-home factor.  I think the round-value structure was flawed, the bomus round too hard to win, the four-person team with a celebrity hard to relate to, the money too small to split four ways and get excited about, and I think the host was not memorable enough.  There was also a huge gray area on judging the show in which contestants were supposed to form grammatically correct questions and sometimes got buzzed for not doing this and other times didn't get buzzed.

Even with all those issues though, I still think game was pretty fun.  But those are some of the reasons that I think it didn't survive.

SplitSecond

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Game Show Pilot Question
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2004, 01:42:45 PM »
I think that the reason the Pyramid front game is more engaging to watch than Go is that, while the play-along factor on both shows is not strong, the "Monday morning quarterback" factor on Pyramid is far stronger.

What I mean by that is that when someone fails to come up with a good clue on Pyramid, you're sitting there screaming your "perfect" clue at the TV (in the front game, and even moreso in the Winner's Circle).  In contrast, failing at the game on Go means getting off-track with the question forming, and it's not as satisfying for you as a home viewer to just come up with the fully-formed question on your own.

Although you can't truly "play along" with Pyramid, you can at least role play as the giver and be smarter than the giver on the screen because you're not bound by their time constraints and the pressures of real money and the national audience.  On Go, you're just a passive viewer.

scully24

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Game Show Pilot Question
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2004, 01:57:22 PM »
I agree with the above; I think that's right on the mark.

CaseyAbell

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Game Show Pilot Question
« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2004, 02:30:14 PM »
Interesting thoughts on play-along value. I agree it's not the be-all-and-end-all, but it's pretty important...at least to moi. Just for the sheer joy of it, I got to thinking about the play-along value of each show I voted for in GSN's Feast of Favorites. We'll go from most to least...

Lingo. I can't help it. I doubt that I've sat through an episode without yelling at the screen more often than I care to admit.

Jeopardy. Sometimes I'm a little weak on form-of-a-question, but again I can't keep my mouth shut.

Millionaire. Everything in the show is designed for play-along: the actual answers, use of the lifelines, decisions on the next level.

Greed. Pretty much ditto Millionaire, which isn't too surprising for this obvious but entertaining knock-off. The Terminator adds speed to the play-along, which is of course missing from the knocked-off.

WoF. Wish I could solve the puzzles faster. Would give me an ego boost. But I still gotta try.

Russian Roulette: Again, the answers and the challenges are naturals for play-along.

Feud. Might surprise some folks, but I think play-along is essential here. I can't help guessing what the survey said.

Pyramid. This is where play-along starts to diminish a little. But I'm still often thinking about possible clues, especially for the Winner's Circle.

Match Game. Getting further and further away from play-along towards just entertainment. But the blank still invites a guess.

Cram. Without the big dumb book to study, play-along is minimal. Oh, once in a while I'll mutter an answer to one of the questions. But I watch mostly for the stunts and slapstick.

Newlywed Game. Pretty much rock-bottom on play-along, because this is a relationship show thinly disguised as a game show.

I've Got a Secret. Shares rock-bottom space, because this is a variety show even more thinly disguised as a game show.

So the more "game-showy" a show gets, the more play-along value increases. Maybe this is a distinguishing characteristic of the genre. (How's that for pseudo-profound jargon?) The more a show goes away from the gameplay for entertainment value, the less I feel like playing along. Which isn't too surprising.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2004, 02:34:33 PM by CaseyAbell »

scully24

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Game Show Pilot Question
« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2004, 02:36:11 PM »
Quote
Watching a team bust off 5 answers in thirty-and-change seconds, and then watching the other team come down and BEAT that, is as good a moment as you'll see on any game show.


By the way, Chris's comment above brings to mind a topc that I've often thought about but never articulated.  I'm curious what others think of this:

On shows like "Go" and "Pyramid"--shows that have timed rounds--flubs will often happen in the middle of taping that will stop gameplay in the middle of a round.  The way I've seen that handled on numerous occasions is that they'll pick up the round in the middle at the precise second where the mistake occurred, giving credit to the contestant for however many answers were gotten right up to the moment of the problem.  

Now this is not an unusual occurrance, it happens on almost every taping of a show of this kiind.

What I've observed though, is that this often gives an unfair advantage to the contestant who was interrrupted, because they get to anticipate that upon resuming, they need one more answer in, say 4 seconds, or 3 answers in 10 seconds.  I've seen many occasions where a contestant, knowing this information, picked up their energy appreciably, really focused, and got the needed answers in the remaining time.

My team was a victim of this on Go, where the opposing team needed to beat our time of 45 seconds, looked like it was floundering, got interrupted with a technical miscue, and then had a chance to re-group and was told they needed one more answer in five seconds when taping resumes.  The pieces of the round are edited together, but you can see between the edits that the team's energy picks up to a huge degree and they speed through the last quetion to get it in under five seconds.

As a recent contestant on Pyramid, I've seen similar things happen when front game rounds get stopped and resumed for technical difficulties.  This almost always works to the advantage of the player who is interrupted, and I've always wondered if any contestants ever complain to Standards and Practices about this phenomenon?  

I, for one, never complained, because I wanted to stay on the good side of the coordinators so I could get on future shows.  But I'm curious if that strikes anyone else as unfair.  I've often thought that they should re-examine this method of resuming taping, even though to fix the practice would invovle throwing out entire played rounds and take more time and cause more material to have to be written.

chris319

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« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2004, 02:57:10 PM »
Quote
Although you can't truly "play along" with Pyramid, you can at least role play as the giver and be smarter than the giver on the screen
Well, then you ARE playing along, but not in the role of clue-receiver. What do you think accounts for the success of Password (aside from the fact that Fremantle has yet to get their hands on it)?

Matt Ottinger

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« Reply #38 on: February 09, 2004, 03:01:22 PM »
[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Feb 9 2004, 01:33 PM\'] (GOD I loved Go. One of THE quinticential 80's game shows, for my money.) [/quote]
 As I've mentioned before (though no one would have reason to remember it), we use the theme music to Go as the theme to our morning newscast at the high school where I teach video production.  At some point in the year, I show the students an episode of the game and the reaction every year is exactly the same:  First, they laugh at seeing "their" news theme on one of Mr. Ottinger's old game show tapes.  Second, they immediately become engaged by the game.  Literally within seconds they're just absolutely fascinated.  And these are easily jaded teenagers we're talking about.

It's a shame GSN is getting away from studio-bound shows for many reasons, but I would love to have seen a remake of Go partnered with their successful Lingo remake.  Forget celebs and tweak the structure (maybe teams of three for example).  There's a really good game in there that deserves to be rediscovered.
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scully24

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Game Show Pilot Question
« Reply #39 on: February 09, 2004, 03:07:24 PM »
Quote
There's a really good game in there that deserves to be rediscovered.


Improv classes routinely use this type of play as an exercise.  Not necessarily forming questions, but having two people speak as one by alternating words.  It forces you to listen, react and adapt quickly to what your partner is doing.

Jay Temple

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« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2004, 12:00:54 AM »
On the play-along factors of Pyramid vs. Go, I'll connect the last two dots:  Go's suffers because it's usually easy to come up with a good question, if not a short one, but you can't predict what your partner will say.

I also agree that the money wasn't much split four ways, but I thought that having the two teams on for an entire week made up for it.
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scully24

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« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2004, 01:03:37 AM »
Quote
I also agree that the money wasn't much split four ways, but I thought that having the two teams on for an entire week made up for it.


When I was a contestant in the fall of 1983, we didn't get to play for a week.  You only got to return if you were the champions from the previous show.

We won our front game, earning $1500, then didn't win the bonus, earning an extra $600 in the bonus rounds.  Then we returned the next day and lost, leaving a two-day effort with a total of $2100, split four ways, for $525 each.

zachhoran

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« Reply #42 on: February 10, 2004, 09:54:32 AM »
[quote name=\'scully24\' date=\'Feb 10 2004, 01:03 AM\']

When I was a contestant in the fall of 1983, we didn't get to play for a week.  You only got to return if you were the champions from the previous show.

We won our front game, earning $1500, then didn't win the bonus, earning an extra $600 in the bonus rounds.  Then we returned the next day and lost, leaving a two-day effort with a total of $2100, split four ways, for $525 each. [/quote]
 A few weeks into the run, they changed it to have the two teams play the entire week. They had one five-time undefeated championship team before the rule change IIRC.

DrBear

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« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2004, 04:32:15 PM »
[quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'Feb 9 2004, 01:30 PM\'] I've Got a Secret. Shares rock-bottom space, because this is a variety show even more thinly disguised as a game show.

So the more "game-showy" a show gets, the more play-along value increases. Maybe this is a distinguishing characteristic of the genre. (How's that for pseudo-profound jargon?) [/quote]
 Throw an "essentially" in there and you're close...

It's interesting to compare G-T's three classic panel games. Both WML and IGAS gave the audience the answer, and there wasn't any play-along; the fun in it was watching the panelists fumfer toward an answer. TTTT, by contrast, is one of the great play-along games ever. (A few times in the 60s, they'd start a show by telling you to look away if you didn't want to know who the  real person was, and then show them; to me it spoiled the show).

By contrast, getting away from panel shows, Password gave you the answer and was first-rate for play-along value.

So there are genre-busting exceptions abounding, essentially.
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ChuckNet

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« Reply #44 on: February 10, 2004, 08:19:31 PM »
Quote
I don't remember him walking off after it, though. Maybe you folks who've seen Go more recently than I (which would mean anytime on GSN...last time I saw it was when it was on what is now ABC Family) can refresh me...did he always do a walkoff? I thought the shows ended with both teams doing a millaround, and KO was out there for it.

I don't recall it, either...on all my eps of Go, he stayed put after the sign-off, while the two teams gathered around him at upstage center to chat. And I def agree that his "K-O for G-O" sign-off was one of the best. :-)

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