The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: calliaume on January 07, 2016, 09:01:22 PM
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I was very, very young when I attended my first game show taping - either I had just turned eight years old or I wasn't quite there. In any case, the only things I remember are:
- It was late 1970, in either November or December
- It was What's My Line? (we were also supposed to attend To Tell the Truth and Jeopardy, but those didn't come to pass)
- It was in the Ed Sullivan Theater - this was so long ago that the primary tenant of the theater was still Ed Sullivan
- Two of the panelists were Arlene Francis and Bennett Cerf; I don't remember the other two, nor any of the Mystery Guests
- We sat in the upper deck for the first of the three tapings, and moved down to the main level for the second and third
- One of the other people in our group (a year or two older than me) got a dollar and a kiss from Johnny Olson (I did receive a big smile from him as he passed by my seat)
And that's it. Amazingly, it took me until today to think "Hmmm, maybe there's an episode guide." So I went to the Mark Goodson Wikia Site (http://markgoodson.wikia.com/wiki/What's_My_Line%3F_%281968%29/Episode_Guide), and pieced together that the only taping Bennett Cerf did in November or December of 1970 was November 5. This is the listing:
Air dates: 2/8-12/1971
Tape date: 11/5/70
Panel: Soupy Sales, Phyllis Newman, Bennett Cerf & Arlene Francis
Mystery Guests: Mel Brooks, The Duke of Bedford, Roger Williams, Gordon MacRae & Muhammad Ali
Pause. Did I see Muhammad Ali at this taping? (Or, at the very least, Mel Brooks?)
Nope. I Googled Muhammad Ali What's My Line, and his only color episode (he appeared as a Mystery Guest on the original as well) had Henry Morgan, Meredith MacRae, Gene Rayburn, and Arlene on the panel. So in all likelihood the Mystery Guest lists are wrong.
Any additional information to fill in the gaps would be great.
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Some of the panel and mystery guest listings for the Bruner seasons of WML? at the Mark Goodson wiki seem...problematic. For example, did Bill Cullen really appear as the mystery guest on four occasions, including twice within a month in 1968? And I've noticed that someone editing the celeb listings on that wiki has an unusual fondness for Kathy Garver, who has a way of turning up when celebrity guests are otherwise unknown. Gil Fates' book confirms that she was a mystery guest during the 12-11-1969 taping, but the Goodson wiki shows her sitting on the panel for several weeks, and Fates never lists her as a panelist.
For the record, the (more reliable) celebrity guide from matchgame.org shows Mel Brooks, The Duke of Bedford and Roger Williams as confirmed mystery guests for 11-5-1970:
https://web.archive.org/web/20030203055557/http://www.matchgame.org/episodeguides/wml/wml3.html (https://web.archive.org/web/20030203055557/http://www.matchgame.org/episodeguides/wml/wml3.html)
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For the record, the (more reliable) celebrity guide from matchgame.org shows Mel Brooks, The Duke of Bedford and Roger Williams as confirmed mystery guests for 11-5-1970:
https://web.archive.org/web/20030203055557/http://www.matchgame.org/episodeguides/wml/wml3.html (https://web.archive.org/web/20030203055557/http://www.matchgame.org/episodeguides/wml/wml3.html)
Which means I definitely got to see Roger Williams. Be still, my beating heart.
Thanks for the update.
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The Mel Brooks episode from that week circulates as a studio master.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LPWFm_2J4c
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For example, did Bill Cullen really appear as the mystery guest on four occasions, including twice within a month in 1968?
No.
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The Mel Brooks episode posted here is likely to be one of the ones I saw, since Soupy notes that he's introducing Phyllis Newman for the fifth time. The episodes were taped late in the day (although not into the evening). I pulled a 1971 ticket off eBay that shows the taping time from 2:10 to 4:00 PM, which I would think means three shows. (The doors opened at 1:25, closed at 1:55.)
I'd be curious as to how the performers' schedules influenced this. I don't know what time Arlene Francis' show aired on WOR - she might have taken taping days off, used a pre-taped show, or maybe they worked around this somehow. Larry Blyden obviously was doing Broadway shows while he hosted, so I don't see how they could have taped in the evening at that point.
Thanks, everybody.
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Doing a little further checking, it would appear this Mark Goodson Wiki is the origin for that god-awful Snap Judgment episode guide on IMDB we talked about last April.
http://www.gameshowforum.org/index.php/topic,27454
Presumably, the WML episode guide (and who knows how many others) was cobbled together the same way: Accurate information when the author had it, complete fiction when the information wasn't available. This shouldn't bother me as much as it does, but it does.
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Presumably, the WML episode guide (and who knows how many others) was cobbled together the same way: Accurate information when the author had it, complete fiction when the information wasn't available. This shouldn't bother me as much as it does, but it does.
Of course. Some of this gets picked up by Wikipedia, and then it's gospel.
I'm curious as to the Match Game.org celebrity guide. Fannie Flagg is listed as having been a celebrity guest on the original Match Game eight times between 1967 and 1969. I don't doubt this (she has other listings during that period on IMDB as well), but what did she do at that point to earn her celebrity status? She didn't have an acting credit until 1970's Five Easy Pieces.
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I'm curious as to the Match Game.org celebrity guide. Fannie Flagg is listed as having been a celebrity guest on the original Match Game eight times between 1967 and 1969. I don't doubt this (she has other listings during that period on IMDB as well), but what did she do at that point to earn her celebrity status? She didn't have an acting credit until 1970's Five Easy Pieces.
She apparently was on the standup circuit in New York in the late 60s (in addition to being on the writing staff of Candid Camera) and had a popular comedy album come out in 1967 called "Rally Round the Flagg".
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She was also part of an ensemble in a comedy album about the LBJ White House where her Lady Bird Johnson imitation gave her some additional fame. And she was also doing stand-up on Carson in this era too.
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Of note: Fannie Flagg was the other celebrity on the day of Bill Cullen's "Pickle" prank.
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I'd be curious as to how the performers' schedules influenced this. I don't know what time Arlene Francis' show aired on WOR - she might have taken taping days off, used a pre-taped show, or maybe they worked around this somehow. Larry Blyden obviously was doing Broadway shows while he hosted, so I don't see how they could have taped in the evening at that point.
Gil Fates' book makes mention of a single day when a bunch of things went wrong with a taping, chief among them, a panelist (I forget who and I'm not near my copy) overslept. Now granted, lots of people have long commutes into NYC, but I just took that to mean the syndicated WML? had a real early call time.
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Thanks for reminding me what a dud Wally Bruner was.
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Gil Fates' book makes mention of a single day when a bunch of things went wrong with a taping, chief among them, a panelist (I forget who and I'm not near my copy) overslept. Now granted, lots of people have long commutes into NYC, but I just took that to mean the syndicated WML? had a real early call time.
Since I lie awake at night wondering if anal retentive is hyphenated:
"Shambles day. Larry overslept, Gene Shalit got the flu and Melba was suddenly stricken stupid."
Another example of panelists who weren't available in the evening - Shalit was on both Today and WNBC's newscasts at the time, and Melba Tolliver was a reporter and anchor for WABC's Eyewitness News. So all three, in all likelihood, were living in the city.
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Thanks for reminding me what a dud Wally Bruner was.
And I'm not exactly sure why they felt the need to cut off Mel Brooks in order to fit in "Honest Answers to Questions From the Studio Audience." Mel Brooks is a lot of things, but he's not dull.
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I was at WML tapings in '73 and '74. I recall one day when Mark Goodson sat in on the panel for Gene Shalit. The had a spot on personalized checks and they had a checkbook for Gene Shalit, where they explained that he had the flu. I think this might have been the same day Bill Todman was a mystery guest because someone cancelled out. It was the Friday show.
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At that time, Mel Brooks was still not too well known as a personality, so maybe they didn't realize how funny he was/is. In that WML episode, he had only released two movies, The Producers (definitely a classic) and The Twelve Chairs (IMO not one of his best... certainly not the zany humor and outright parody that he would later be known for, but Dom Deluise sort of saves it in the scenes he's in. He wanted Gene Wilder in Twelve Chairs too, but Gene wasn't available at that time)
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I dunno...Get Smart had already gone off the air by this point, so I think his name was a little more out there, esp. his humor. He'd also appeared on the 2000th episode of Jeopardy! not long after this (maybe a year or so later), and they used him a lot more there.
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Bruner sure cut Soupy off at the knees in the egg collector spot. I've never seen a game-show emcee be that rude to a panelist or contestant on camera -- not even Allen Ludden.
I didn't think the handwriting guessing game played at all well.
Mel Brooks was already well known, certainly to the panel, from his comedy routines with Carl Reiner.
I wouldn't blame Bennett for never coming back after that show.
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Bruner sure cut Soupy off at the knees in the egg collector spot. I've never seen a game-show emcee be that rude to a panelist or contestant on camera -- not even Allen Ludden.
I didn't think the handwriting guessing game played at all well.
Mel Brooks was already well known, certainly to the panel, from his comedy routines with Carl Reiner.
I wouldn't blame Bennett for never coming back after that show.
The handwriting game was way too long. It's wonderful to have all the panelists participate, but it took up four and a half minutes, and by the time we got to Arlene, I'm sure people were looking at their watches.
I'm just taking a guess, but if Wally Bruner did want out after the fourth season, I suspect G-T didn't fight very hard to make him stay. Gil Fates' What's My Line? book is almost one of a kind, but there's no question he leaves a lot of touchy subjects untouched (the death of Dorothy Kilgallen is the first thing that comes to mind). It must have been awkward for Larry Blyden to be hosting the show in some parts of the country with Bruner's episodes still running in others.
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At that time, Mel Brooks was still not too well known as a personality, so maybe they didn't realize how funny he was/is.
Brooks and Carl Reiner had been performing "The 2000 Year Old Man" for over a decade at this point; one of their albums sold over a million copies. He was also a staple of talk shows at that point, having done "The Tonight Show" (including Johnny Carson's first episode), Steve Allen, Mike Douglas, David Frost, and Dick Cavett numerous times. He also performed stand-up on "The Ed Sullivan Show" and "The Hollywood Palace." And he had done a BUNCH of other game shows during the 1960s, including "Eye Guess," "Personality," "The Face is Familiar" and "The Celebrity Game." In addition, he had written 139 episodes of "Your Show of Shows", three episodes of "Get Smart," a show which he also created, and had won an Oscar for "The Producers."
I'm pretty sure people knew that Mel Brooks was funny by this point.
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Somewhere there is a clip of Mel Brooks telling a story involving Bill Cullen and Eye Guess. If I can find it, I'll post it.
Bennett emceed WML? once that I've seen, but he was awkward and probably shaking in his boots. I always wanted to see Martin Gabel and Tony Randall try emceeing it. Daly was cheerful and whimsical at times in the emcee chair. Wally was a cold fish. If he lasted four seasons, that's three too many.
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John Daly looked particularly glum during the first show after the death of Dorothy Kilgallen. I'm convinced he was a direct pipeline from studio 52 to his father in law, the eponymous head of the Warren commission which was charged with covering up LBJ's role in the Kennedy assassination. Dorothy would come to the studio and tell everyone how she was going to blow the lid off the case with her Jack Ruby interview. I have a feeling she was silenced before she could get Ruby to spill the beans.
I don't blame Gil for omitting this controversial topic from his book.
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Somewhere there is a clip of Mel Brooks telling a story involving Bill Cullen and Eye Guess.
Yep. (http://www.gameshowforum.org/index.php/topic,26197.msg325706.html#msg325706)
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Somewhere there is a clip of Mel Brooks telling a story involving Bill Cullen and Eye Guess.
Yep. (http://www.gameshowforum.org/index.php/topic,26197.msg325706.html#msg325706)
The print version was from a 2010 issue of GQ Magazine under the heading "Epic Tales of Embarrassment"
The week of October 17–21 in 1966—that would make me about 40—was a special celebrity week on Eye Guess. Bill Cullen was the host. The game was very similar to Concentration. I was teamed up with Julia Meade. Remember her? Actress, very pretty young lady, blonde... Okay, never mind. I don't think I won, but I did get the take-home game. Anyway, the show is over, and I start walking toward the podium to say good night to Bill, to thank him for having me on. He starts coming toward me cross-stage, and I don't know what he's doing. His feet are flopping. His hands are flying everywhere. He's doing this kind of wacky walk-of-the-unfortunates that Jerry Lewis used to do. So I figured, what the hell, I'll join him. I start doing, I dunno, this multiple-sclerosis walk, flapping my arms and doing the Milton Berle cross legs—my own Jerry Lewis impression... And Julia is whispering, "No! He's crippled, Mel!" I don't even hear her. Finally we meet in the middle, we hug, and he says to me, "You know, you're the only comic who's ever had the nerve to make fun of my crippled walk. Everyone's so careful, it makes me feel even worse." And I realize, Oh, my God, this guy is really crippled! It was my worst moment—and if you weren't me, probably the funniest thing that ever happened.
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And I realize, Oh, my God, this guy is really crippled! It was my worst moment—and if you weren't me, probably the funniest thing that ever happened.
From time to time, I will read about something that happened years ago and cringe about how badly people would've reacted to it happening today. This story, as much as I laughed, definitely fits that bill for me.
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From time to time, I will read about something that happened years ago and cringe about how badly people would've reacted to it happening today. This story, as much as I laughed, definitely fits that bill for me.
(https://localtvwiti.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/trump-reporter.jpg)
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Well yeah, but in Mel's case, it was an honest misunderstanding. Trump was just being Trump (read: an egotistical asshole). :)
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Bumping this just because I unexpectedly got some clarity about taping times. A Facebook friend posted a photo of the 1969 Macy's Thanksgiving Parade, and it just so happens that the photo catches the parade as it's passing the Ed Sullivan Theater, and the marquee is advertising tickets for "What's My Line?" Now granted, it's a different year and a different studio, so it doesn't really solve anything about Curt's mystery for sure, but at the Ed Sullivan Theater in 1969, the tapings were on Wednesday at 10:45 a.m., 1:45 p.m., and 3:30 p.m.
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Bennett emceed WML? once that I've seen, but he was awkward and probably shaking in his boots. I always wanted to see Martin Gabel and Tony Randall try emceeing it. Daly was cheerful and whimsical at times in the emcee chair. Wally was a cold fish. If he lasted four seasons, that's three too many.
Wally was a news correspondent before this, so he was use to being serious. But I think he realized that WML was not Meet the Press. Larry Blyden was a stage actor so he had a more outgoing personality. He also had hosting experience doing Personality and The Movie Game before WML.
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He also had hosting experience doing Personality
Oh, the irony.
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Bumping this just because I unexpectedly got some clarity about taping times. A Facebook friend posted a photo of the 1969 Macy's Thanksgiving Parade, and it just so happens that the photo catches the parade as it's passing the Ed Sullivan Theater, and the marquee is advertising tickets for "What's My Line?" Now granted, it's a different year and a different studio, so it doesn't really solve anything about Curt's mystery for sure, but at the Ed Sullivan Theater in 1969, the tapings were on Wednesday at 10:45 a.m., 1:45 p.m., and 3:30 p.m.
I'm still thinking taping times may have been adjusted to fit Arlene Francis' schedule. According to this 1966 brochure, her show aired on WOR from 1:15 to 2 PM (imagine only being on for 45 minutes a day!): http://imgur.com/gallery/cHo3V (http://imgur.com/gallery/cHo3V)
By 1970, the time slot might have changed. I found a 1980 brochure (http://imgur.com/gallery/cHo3V (http://imgur.com/gallery/cHo3V)) that has her profile, but doesn't mention when her show aired. In any case, it was a short cab ride between the WOR studio at 1440 Broadway and the Sullivan Theater at 1697 Broadway. (It's also possible she could have done the show remotely; apparently that wasn't uncommon for other WOR personalities at the time.)
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He also had hosting experience doing Personality
Oh, the irony.
I don't see it: what's the irony?
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I don't see it: what's the irony?
The only time I think of the words "Larry Blyden" and "personality" together are when I'm looking at his resume.
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The only time I think of the words "Larry Blyden" and "personality" together are when I'm looking at his resume.
I'm inclined to think Blyden's acting career was very much influenced by what his life was like away from the stage and screen. He was divorced from Carol Haney when their kids were roughly ages four and one; Haney died less than two years later. I have a feeling Blyden would have made more of an effort to get more work in Hollywood, and probably wouldn't have hosted many (or any) game shows, if he weren't a single parent as well.
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John Daly was a serious newscaster before and during his stint on What's My Line?
Wally Bruner was a dud.