The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: gamed121683 on January 31, 2014, 11:53:19 PM
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Here's an interesting article about how Jeopardy's recent winner is "Chu"-ing out the competition (thank you for groaning). However, I feel that the author is making Arthur sound like he's pulling a Michael Larson. By that I mean he's capitalizing on the "flaws" of the game, so to speak. Am I wrong to think that?
http://www.thewire.com/entertainment/2014/01/jeopardys-newest-star-proves-optimal-strategy-really-unfriendly/357609/
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I can't stand Arthur either...but I think that calling him a game changer three days into his championship reign is WAY too early.
Let him put together a 20 or 74 game streak first.
And has the writer of this article ever seen an episode of Jeopardy! in his life? LOTS of people have done the Daily Double hunting strategy. LOTS.
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It always amuses me whenever anyone gets their OCD in a twist over someone doing ANYTHING but taking a category top to bottom like a good little sheep.
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It always amuses me whenever anyone gets their OCD in a twist over someone doing ANYTHING but taking a category top to bottom like a good little sheep.
I get annoyed by it from time to time.
I'm not gonna waste my time writing an article about it though.
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Here's an interesting article about how Jeopardy's recent winner is "Chu"-ing out the competition (thank you for groaning). However, I feel that the author is making Arthur sound like he's pulling a Michael Larson. By that I mean he's capitalizing on the "flaws" of the game, so to speak. Am I wrong to think that?
yes.
Chuck Forrest used the Rubin Bounce (named for a classmate who suggested the tactic) to win $172,800. This isn't new; it dates back to 1985.
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He's not doing anything against the rules, but interrupting Alex when he's reading a Daily Double clue to say "I don't know" comes across as rude.
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I haven't watched any of his performance, but I am dumbfounded at the amount of attention this FOUR GAME WINNER is receiving. It's probably a textbook case of how something that starts in the social media somehow takes root and spreads, like kuzdu on the side of a southern highway, throughout the mainstream media.
So yeah, a guy who by his own admission is trying to be a little unsettling to his opponents is a little unsettling to watch. For those of us who know the game, that's hardly newsworthy. Apparently people who've watched him play say that he hasn't really shown the depth of knowledge that will keep him around much longer anyway. But the media, in their effort to make this a thing, are dropping terms like "mad genius" and the WAY overused "game theory" in an effort to make a big deal over someone who simply knows what he's doing and doesn't worry too much about the social aspects of it. It's all a little silly.
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What's funny is that I was reading an article on him this morning which basically accused him of annoying Alex because he was taking the clues out of the "traditional" order. Wow...he really *is* getting people's "OMG!! Start at the $200, you bastard!" instincts going way more than they need to be.
Watch...if he wins a few more games, besides the KenJen comparisons, we'll also be told how that's the "new, correct, game-theoretic" way to play the game.
\threw that one in for you, Matt O. :)
Anthony
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One thing we can infer: when there's video clues they're now five different clips instead of one long tape roll. In the old days players had to take those in order to make sure the tape would play the next one down. They could zig zag all over the board otherwise. One thing I remember reading: it takes a certain level of confidence and concentration to be able to carry out that plan well. Anyone can jump ship to go Daily Double hunting-it is another thing entirely to dominate the board.
Alex mentioned Arthur got a three-week break but there's only this week of Decades play; is there a Teen tournament on deck?
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To Arthur's credit, he is not only quick to say he didn't come up with these strategies on his own, but in a lot of cases, he's giving specific credit to the individuals who did, or at least who did them first.
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What's funny is that I was reading an article on him this morning which basically accused him of annoying Alex because he was taking the clues out of the "traditional" order
Do you think Alex really cares if a contestant takes the clues out of order? Several other contestants have done that this season and no-one has made much of an issue over it.
Personally, I think it's a refreshing change. Sometimes it's a little boring to see the same 200-400-600,etc. order all the time.
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Do you think Alex really cares if a contestant takes the clues out of order?
I think so. He draws lines through used clues on his master list, so if a contestant starts bouncing around the board, he has to make sure he's reading from the correct box rather than simply the next one down. Playing the clues in order means there's one less thing he has to concentrate on.
Personally, as a viewer, it annoys me when contestants play categories out of order (the only person I didn't mind seeing do it was Roger Craig, as he would make gutsy, exciting wagers when he found the Daily Doubles). But of course, it isn't the contestants' responsibility to not annoy the home viewers. Still, it always makes me laugh when a contestant goes fishing for a Daily Double and misses it because one of their opponents found it in the second row.
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But of course, it isn't the contestants' responsibility to not annoy the home viewers.
If enough viewers are annoyed and tune out, then it is. I doubt that'll happen but it is worth pointing out that without a TV show Jeopardy doesn't exist.
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If enough viewers are annoyed and tune out, then it is.
If enough viewers are annoyed and tune out, then it's four minutes 'til Wapner, if you know what I'm saying.
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If enough viewers are annoyed and tune out, then it's four minutes 'til Wapner, if you know what I'm saying.
I actually did that routine today; very pleased that our IT guy picked up on it.
/I suppose if a viewer finds Wheel of Fortune too hard in this area they can pick from Entertainment Tonight, Evening Magazine or Family Phallus.
//Didn't Jeopardy make a change to their signaling system early on precisely due to viewer complaints? Either there was a tone to go with the lights or they changed when you could buzz or when Alex would recognize a signal.
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//Didn't Jeopardy make a change to their signaling system early on precisely due to viewer complaints? Either there was a tone to go with the lights or they changed when you could buzz or when Alex would recognize a signal.
I remember from watching an early episode that there was a tone, and they could also buzz in mid-question. It was irritating all around.
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//Didn't Jeopardy make a change to their signaling system early on precisely due to viewer complaints? Either there was a tone to go with the lights or they changed when you could buzz or when Alex would recognize a signal.
I remember from watching an early episode that there was a tone, and they could also buzz in mid-question. It was irritating all around.
So here's my understanding of the lockout system changes (correct me if I'm wrong):
Start of Season 1: can buzz anytime once question is exposed, sound effect when player buzzes in, no lockout delay on the rebound
Sometime during Season 1: sound effect when player buzzes in is removed, lockout delay added on the rebound (to prevent players who weren't first from mashing the button to get in)
Season 2: must wait until question is read to buzz in, lockout delay both on the first buzz (after the question is read) and on the rebound
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Alex mentioned Arthur got a three-week break but there's only this week of Decades play; is there a Teen tournament on deck?
College tournament.
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All I know is that it's quite amusing that this guy's catching flak for jumping around the board right as his run was interrupted by, of all people, Chuck Forrest himself on Monday.
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There was a story on "ABC World News Tonight" yesterday about the unorthodox Mr. Chu. It should be interesting to see how many games he wins.
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So here's my understanding of the lockout system changes (correct me if I'm wrong):
Start of Season 1: can buzz anytime once question is exposed, sound effect when player buzzes in, no lockout delay on the rebound
I admit my memory's not 100%, but I recall there being a series of "countdown" lights on the inside of the podia that the players could see. The lights started when Alex read the question and you couldn't buzz in until after the lights had gone out, which was usually sometime mid-question.
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So here's my understanding of the lockout system changes (correct me if I'm wrong):
Start of Season 1: can buzz anytime once question is exposed, sound effect when player buzzes in, no lockout delay on the rebound
I admit my memory's not 100%, but I recall there being a series of "countdown" lights on the inside of the podia that the players could see. The lights started when Alex read the question and you couldn't buzz in until after the lights had gone out, which was usually sometime mid-question.
And isn't there also some sort of perimeter light on the outside of the board that comes on to show that the players were free to buzz in?
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And isn't there also some sort of perimeter light on the outside of the board that comes on to show that the players were free to buzz in?
Affirmative.
The only thing I don't like about use of the Forrest Bounce is in this day and age where Jeopardy! games run much tighter than they used to and with a stronger emphasis on finishing the board, there tends to be a lot of jarring edits between the calling of the next answer and the revealing of it.
A minor quip either way. I enjoy seeing strategic play such as this; though would the game be as interesting if it was done everyday? Probably not.
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Speaking as a "fourth estater", I've been somewhat surprised with J! allowing Arthur Chu to participate in so many interviews while still champ. The show was a stickler for decades about contestants doing media interviews -- the show's unofficial policy always seemed to be "local media can chat with area contestant ahead of first appearance. Don't ask about how the contestant did or the interview ends." IIRC, Ken Jennings really didn't start doing interviews until J! hit the summer hiatus, when his winning streak was, I believe, 38.
With Arthur sitting out until February 24, and that game determining whether he gets a slot in the TOC, I can't blame J! for loosening up their media restrictions to go for ratings gold.
JD
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If there's one thing I've learned in this internet age, its that you've *really* made it when Taiwanese news animators make a video about you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaimM7ZnTc8
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I laughed quite hard at the 54 second mark.
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Nifty article from a viral-media researcher about what's up with all the Arthur Chu attention. Short version is that he shamelessly self-promoted on Twitter, and got a couple of lucky breaks, including a big one from the folks at Mental Floss magazine.
https://medium.com/p/50035702ec31
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If he doesn't win tonight that's probably the last we hear from him. He's joint 11th on the leader board and the last three spots are taken up by other tournament winners.
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He's written a piece for The Guardian:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/25/jeopardy-champion-arthur-chu-its-about-intimidation
The haters online are right to an extent. I'm just up there being a machine, playing the game. Mowing through the questions mechanically with this detached mien like a crazy person. That is not the most likable side of me on TV; that's the side of me I had to let out in order to win.
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It sounds like he's admitting if he had to play the traditional way that his knowledge just by itself wouldn't carry the day. In Trebekistan Bob goes on about the little mental jiu-jitsu moves he would carry out on the next opponents in order to put them off balance because Bob admits that his knowledge wasn't up to snuff and therefore he had to take whatever advantages came his way. Roger Craig used data-mining to figure out what would come up and he studied predictively, and it worked.
The thing that's offputting to me (if I have to choose) is that what I like about Jeopardy is that it rewards normal people who like to learn stuff about the world around them. Sometimes you get creeps or a-holes but most of the contestants are pleasant people there to have a good time, win some bucks and show off a little. I would prefer that Arthur didn't apologize for what he's doing. It's legal, it's working, own it. Embrace the villany within.
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It sounds like he's admitting if he had to play the traditional way that his knowledge just by itself wouldn't carry the day.
Then it's a good thing there is more to Jeopardy! than a single predetermined string of one question after another.
I would prefer that Arthur didn't apologize for what he's doing.
This precisely. Fark the OCDs / people-in-need-of-structure-in-every-aspect-of-their-lives who don't like it.
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I would prefer that Arthur didn't apologize for what he's doing.
This precisely. Fark the OCDs / people-in-need-of-structure-in-every-aspect-of-their-lives who don't like it.
The difference is that Chu couldn't care less whether he's apologizing or cackling like Dr. Evil, so long as somebody's commenting about it.
BTW, spoiler blah blah and all that, but I figure he must have won yesterday?
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Handily.
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Someone mentioned Herm Edwards in another thread, and hit it right on the head. Play to win the game. If you're Ken Jennings and you can answer 50 of the 60 clues every damn game, go for it. If you need to play defensive to keep the lead, do that.
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Someone mentioned Herm Edwards in another thread, and hit it right on the head. Play to win the game.
Given his coaching record overall I find this amusing and condescending to the other players. I doubt they are showing up to not win the game and to enjoy the consolation money.
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Someone mentioned Herm Edwards in another thread, and hit it right on the head. Play to win the game.
Given his coaching record overall I find this amusing and condescending to the other players. I doubt they are showing up to not win the game and to enjoy the consolation money.
I think that was Herm's response to a reporter's question about his team's work ethic. Not him trying to talk to his team to motivate them. In that context, I don't find it nearly as condescending.
It's just amazing the big deal people will make out of anything. I didn't see nearly this much conversation when Colby was on and his facial expressions were almost enough to give someone a nightmare.
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I think that was Herm's response to a reporter's question about his team's work ethic. Not him trying to talk to his team to motivate them. In that context, I don't find it nearly as condescending.
I meant to the Jeopardy players who aren't defeating Arthur. They're trying as hard as anyone else. To say that you play to win the game is about as revelatory as "it's only easy if you know it."
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It's not for Arthur's two opponents, it's for the portion of the viewing audience who don't like his methods, just like Herm's quote was for the reporters and not his players. Obviously they're all trying to win the game, but not every Cletus and Josephine understands there's more than one way to do it.
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It's not for Arthur's two opponents, it's for the portion of the viewing audience who don't like his methods, just like Herm's quote was for the reporters and not his players. Obviously they're all trying to win the game, but not every Cletus and Josephine understands there's more than one way to do it.
My problem with this whole line of reasoning is that I'm not seeing anything that actually says Cletus and Josephine are having a hard time with any of this. The snowballing viral story is that Arthur Chu is annoying viewers with his unusual tactics. But I'm not seeing any actual complaints. Anywhere. All I'm seeing are stories that SAY people don't like it.
Yes, the show is seen by millions of people, and there are bound to be folks who see something out of the ordinary and have a problem. Elsewhere, I have seen the race card played, and again, in a pool of millions, yes, there are going to be people who don't like him because he looks funny. In both cases, I'm just saying that the number of people who actually have a problem is insignificant and wildly disproportionate to the uproar.
EDIT to say that of course there are the typical internet rowdies who complain about everything. My point is that Mr. and Mrs. America just don't think this is a big deal.