The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: Gameshowcrackers on July 17, 2009, 05:42:05 AM
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What was your favorite all time version of Hollywood Sqaures?
Was it the original starring genial emcee Peter Marshall and featuring regulars, Charley Weaver, Wally Cox and Paul Lynde in the center square.
Was it the manic incarnation which ran from 1986 to 1989 with the jazzy theme tune hosted by original Hollywood Squares regular, John Davidson and featuring the voice of America's top 40, Shadoe Stevens who was also a regular on the show.
Or perhaps you liked the last version which ran from 1998 to 2004 emceed by Dancing with the Stars host, Tom Bergeron.
For me I have to say it was the crazy middle one, hosted by John Davidson and featuring Shadoe Stevens as announcer and regular panellist with the likes of Jim J Bullock, Joan Rivers and co as regular 'Squares'.
It had the most fun and also introduced the car game at the end plus it had a great opening and closing theme tune. Also, went on the road a couple of times to Florida and New York city.
The Tom Bergeron one was my least favorite version.
But which version was your favorite?
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Not a big fan of the show in general, but if pressed, I'll say the Marshall version. I prefered "Blankety Blanks" over on ABC.
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Marshall's is the classic, of course. Bergeron did a great job as host. But I never could stand anything with Davidson in it.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'220335\' date=\'Jul 17 2009, 10:20 AM\']Not a big fan of the show in general, but if pressed, I'll say the Marshall version. I prefered "Blankety Blanks" over on ABC.[/quote]
So you're the one who watched it. It ran just ten weeks. Cute format (even though it changed about five times), great host, but other than that, it was doomed.
I have to go with Peter Marshall version as well. The jokes were funnier, and the celebs knew how to BLUFF, which was an afterthought on Bergeron's version, though I thought Tom did a good job as host.
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[quote name=\'geno57\' post=\'220336\' date=\'Jul 17 2009, 10:25 AM\']Marshall's is the classic, of course. Bergeron did a great job as host. But I never could stand anything with Davidson in it.[/quote]
Ditto. I went to see Davidson's version of HS when it taped from Radio City Music Hall in NYC. They had to stop tape numerous times because Davidson kept screwing up, and he was reading from cue cards. He's got nice dimples, but he was dumb as an ox!!
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Marshall, hands down. Bergeron was good as well, but Marshall set the standard.
The first season of Davidson's version was good. After that, not so much.
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[quote name=\'geno57\' post=\'220336\' date=\'Jul 17 2009, 10:25 AM\']Marshall's is the classic, of course. Bergeron did a great job as host. But I never could stand anything with Davidson in it.[/quote]
Anything with Davidson in it...now THAT'S Incredible!
/What? I thought there was a two-drink minimum around here.
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Davidson version.
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What? The Jon Bauman run isn't being considered? (Yes, I could resist, but asked anyway).
I give the 1966-81 run an A-. (would be an A+ but The Vegas Season was comparably poor and the set used for the final year of The Burbank Era was horrid, plus by then Paul Lynde had gone). So A- is the overall grade. Sky high marks for both Peter Marshall and Kenny Williams and all three themes used.
The 1986-89 edition gets a C. It could've gotten a B- had the game not dragged to a crawl so often.
The 1998-2004 run gets a B+ primarily because of Tom Bergeron's outstanding hosting abilities. Thankfully, they had the wisdom to dump the Double Or Nothing bonus round.
Is it too soon for the show to go for another comeback?
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[quote name=\'Don Howard\' post=\'220342\' date=\'Jul 17 2009, 09:58 AM\']Sky high marks for both Peter Marshall and Kenny Williams and all three themes used.[/quote]
Apparently Shadoe Stevens once subbed for Williams as announcer for a week of shows in 1974 meaning that he has announced on all incarnations of the Hollywood Sqaures!
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I have to go with the Marshall version as my favorite..If you didnt expect too much out of the Davidson version it was ok. Bergeron did a great job as host, but there was too much Whoopi early on..As far as a revival, it might be about time..But where would you get 9 celebrities that are that well known these days that might have an idea how to play the game?
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[quote name=\'Gameshowcrackers\' post=\'220348\' date=\'Jul 17 2009, 12:20 PM\']Apparently Shadoe Stevens once subbed for Williams as announcer for a week of shows in 1974 meaning that he has announced on all incarnations of the Hollywood Sqaures![/quote]
I see that in the IMDB he's credited with one specific episode of the original series, but I have a really hard time believing that's true. For one thing, I think the coincidence of him going on to do the next two versions is a little too great, so it seems this would be the sort of thing that would have come up before.
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My vote goes to the Bergeron run in the post-Whoopi era. Close behind that is the Davidson version. The original version seemed too cut-and-dry. Yes, it had its funny moments, but they seemed to take it too seriously.
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The Marshall version, overall, is the standard-bearer. But my personal favorite is the first season of the post-Whoopi "H2" version. Everything just really seemed like it came together in that season, Bergeron was on top of his game, the bonus round was the best the series has ever had, and the show had yet to suffer from Attack of Teh Cheap (both in terms of prizes and celeb bookings).
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I watched more Bergeron than Davidson and Marshall, but I'll say Marshall and Bergeron versions were good, especially for their eras.
I watched a couple of Davidson shows, and it just drags on. No dice.
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The Marshall version was the best overall--most fun to watch, the best writing, the best regular and semi-regular celebrities, and the best emcee. I didn't care for the lack of a bonus game for most of the show's run, as I feel there needed to be something else than first to two games wins, loser games home, lather, rinse, repeat.
The bits and pieces I've seen of the Bergeron version were a few steps below the Marshall era. I didn't have any issues with the double-or-nothing bonus, but I see how most people didn't care for it. Would it have been any better if it was double-or-half, so there is still some reward for the work done in the first part of the main game?
The Davidson version....how did it last 3 years? Forget everything that's been said about John Davidson's massive amount of suckage. There were so many no-name celebrities, Jm J. and Joan Rivers (to a lesser extent) were tolerable for only so long, and they wasted so much time on goofy sidebar activities like Justin Wilson, the Cajun chef, cooking crawdads in his cube. Was there a reason Shadoe was one of the squares? Were they desperate for celebrities to appear? Given some of the Z-list "celebrities" who were on the show in the last season or two, I wonder if Shadoe was used as lox box filler because the powers that be couldn't find any D-list celebs...
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Marshall (the Master)
Bergeron (always competant)
Davidson (nice palm tree in the logo)
Bauman (saving grace-the theme music)
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When it comes to Squares, the 2002-03 season of Tom Bergeron's run (the first of the two "H2" years) was hands down the best I've seen. The rest was good, though not great, for two different reasons. (The big flaw with the last year was the budget.) And the worst? The abomination attached to Match Game in the early 80s.
But Marshall and Davidson? I was corrupted by the USA reruns in the early 90s, and actually enjoy Davidson's version quite a bit, while Marshall's version actually grates a little bit. Peter Marshall is a terrific host, and the game breezes along effortlessly. Technically, it's great. But I don't *enjoy* the same way that I enjoy Bergeron and, yes, Davidson's versions.
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I grew up watching Davidson's squares on USA. I remember thinking this was the only version of squares to exist, even though there was "new" in the title.
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I can't exactly pick one over the other, although I do have my opinions. Indeed, the second-to-last season of H2 was excellent. The last season was redeemed somewhat from its cheapness and lack of star power with the straddling format, but you still felt the show struggling to stay on the air. 30 Minutes with Whoopi & Friends is something I haven't sat down to in some time, but clips here and there reminded me of the better parts. Even if the zingers came too quick and too often, some were absolute gems. Plus, Tom Bergeron, always on his A-game.
When we did the 20 Greatest Hosts poll back in 2006, a number of us talked about the original version - and Peter Marshall - being overrated. I'm inclined to agree. Every episode feels rushed, but polished. They're interesting artifacts enjoyed one at a time. But I grew tired of them during their brief run on GSN.
Davidson's version I can take or leave given the day. Clips better suit it nowadays though, as I find the whole episodes more a product of their time.
-Jason
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I have to say that I liked the Bergeron version most. The format wasn't to my liking until the end of the run, but the jokes were the funniest and the prizes were pretty good until the cheapie final season. My least favorite version is easily the Marshall version. It's just not that funny, and the audience sweetening is painfully obvious.
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I think the Bergeron version just slightly edges out the Marshall version, and would honestly consider it as one of the best revivals of the last 10-15 years (I know that's not saying much). It started off very solid its first two seasons, stumbled a bit during Whoopi's final season, then bounced back very nicely for the H^2 era. My only gripe was that Whoopi tried to steal the show way too often.
The only problem I really had with Marshall's version was that it was too dry at times. Notice the Bergeron version has had more exposure on GSN, I'm guessing for that reason (ISTR the Marshall version getting pretty low ratings).
Davidson's version had too many gimmicks that dragged the show around, and Davidson didn't know how to tell people like Jm J. to STFU and keep the game moving. Bauman had a similar problem when he hosted.
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Does anyone know why they picked Shadoe to do the announcing for Whoopi's version? It's not as if the tie back to Davidson's really bought them anything, unless they did it for kicks (which is cool).
And it is a weird thing about Peter Marshall's version--it's the best because the writing and stars were so good, but the pace is a bit robotic, especially in later years. Wally Cox and Charley Weaver helped avoid it, just because their styles were so unique. Even though they kept it brief, they varied the tempo. But otherwise, they were so good at keeping it a machine, it felt kind of machine-like.
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[quote name=\'JasonA1\' post=\'220359\' date=\'Jul 17 2009, 02:40 PM\']Peter Marshall....overrated. I'm inclined to agree.[/quote]
5 Emmys ain't bad for being overrated. But, yes, I remember the opinion made that Art Fleming wasn't that good, either. YMMV. It makes the world go around.
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[quote name=\'Don Howard\' post=\'220368\' date=\'Jul 17 2009, 02:36 PM\'][quote name=\'JasonA1\' post=\'220359\' date=\'Jul 17 2009, 02:40 PM\']Peter Marshall....overrated. I'm inclined to agree.[/quote]
5 Emmys ain't bad for being overrated.
[/quote]
He only deserved, like, 3 of those.
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When you consider that Heatter-Quigley was looking for a game vehicle that would come to be the closest thing to a Hollywood party, it's Marshall hands down. Very rarely on that version did I ever see someone and said, "Who invited him?" Thanks to Peter, the ultimate straight man, and Wally, Cliff, Paul, George and add in Rose Marie too for keeping this version chugging for nearly 15 years.
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The Bergeron version gets points off due to the fact that the panelists were quite obviously reading off index cards.
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In certain genres of TV that I like, I'm big on voices. I would always listen to Charlie Jones announce, or Pat Summerall, when it came to a football game. Game shows are somewhat the same for me. My favorite version of the Squares was the original Marshall version. Loved hearing his voice and he added a lot to the show. To hear him say "Hello Stars!", and "the object of the players is..."(goes over rules) is music to my ears.
Seeing as I was only 5 1/2 when the original NBC version went off, the Davidson Squares was the first one I was able to watch regularly (MG-HS was on while I was in school for the most part). I remember being confused by the scoring because on MG-HS one would get points per square, and this was a flat $500 for winning a game. Naturally, this is before the internet so I had no idea of how Marshall's version scored - save for the "X" and "O" designations on the syndicated version from Vegas.
Bergeron's version I liked as well....To sum it up - Marshall, Bergeron, Davidson is my order of preference with HS.
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[quote name=\'aaron sica\' post=\'220375\' date=\'Jul 17 2009, 03:21 PM\']I remember being confused by the scoring because on MG-HS one would get points per square,[/quote]
Which is one of the reasons I'm one of the few people who really liked that version of HS. I LOVED that scoring system. If that were to be applied to a standalone version of the show, I think the only change I'd consider making would be to bump individual squares to $50 per after the second game.
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Marshall all the way, with Bergeron a close second.
But if it were my take: Bergeron's first set, Davidson's theme, and Marshall hosting + celebrities.
/also a geek for the 5/4 metered open on 80s HS
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Marshall and company; HANDS DOWN!!!!!
Cordially,
Tammy
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'220378\' date=\'Jul 17 2009, 06:33 PM\'][quote name=\'aaron sica\' post=\'220375\' date=\'Jul 17 2009, 03:21 PM\']I remember being confused by the scoring because on MG-HS one would get points per square,[/quote]
Which is one of the reasons I'm one of the few people who really liked that version of HS. I LOVED that scoring system. If that were to be applied to a standalone version of the show, I think the only change I'd consider making would be to bump individual squares to $50 per after the second game.
[/quote]
Yup...I liked that scoring system as well. I thought it rather dull when I first saw it that money was only awarded for winning the individual game - and even as a child I really didn't like that scoring system...At least during the first season, each game was $500 so if one player won the first two games, the other was screwed, IIRC.
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The original version wins this one easily. Everyone is having such a good time and that came through into our living rooms. They weren't playing for much money and that made for a more casual game. The players would often make bad plays just to keep the game going.
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[quote name=\'alfonzos\' post=\'220398\' date=\'Jul 17 2009, 08:10 PM\']The players would often make bad plays just to keep the game going.[/quote]You can't be serious.
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I'll always have a soft spot for Davidson Squares, partly because it's the first one I watched, but mostly due to the gorgeous set and magnificent music package. Overall, the original never can and never will be topped.
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There are various reasons why I love all three versions:
Marshall:
1. The rarity of it, in that it was long thought destroyed but for a precious few.
2. When the "Tacky Buzzer" always came in at the most inoppertune moments.
3. One episode always stood out to me, in that the female player rode her bike to NBC Burbank, won the car at the end of the show, and almost mauled Peter Marshall.
Davidson:
1. The first version I ever saw.
2. The opening sequence, especially when they went to New York.
3. The visual questions; yes they ate up a lot of time, but they also broke up the monotony.
4. When (in the first 2 seasons) a player went 5-and-out and guarenteed themselves a car.
5. When someone actually wins a car.
Bergeron:
1. The host, just as good as Peter Marshall.
2. Both theme songs (I never heard of Teena Marie until she did "Hollywood Square Biz", and other then "Sister Act", who knew Whoopi Goldberg could sing?).
3. One player named Tarek Tolba, who during the show's week in New York, went 5-and-out, didn't let his opponents win a game, and wound up winning three cars and total winnings of $154,521. He was also 2nd Runner-Up in the 2001 ToC.
4. All-Time champ Jenny Thomas, with $196,175.
5. All three endgames. I know a lot of people trash "Double-or-Nothing", but I remember one Valentine's Week 2002 show, in which the champ earned $30K, declared "No Guts, No Glory", and wound up winning $60,000. Also, I love during the Seasons 5 & 6 endgame when someone ran the board for an automatic win.
Those are the reasons I love HS. BTW...
[quote name=\'tpirfan28\' post=\'220380\' date=\'Jul 17 2009, 06:38 PM\']/also a geek for the 5/4 metered open on 80s HS[/quote]
What does that mean?
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[quote name=\'golden-road\' post=\'220408\' date=\'Jul 17 2009, 09:44 PM\'][quote name=\'tpirfan28\' post=\'220380\' date=\'Jul 17 2009, 06:38 PM\']/also a geek for the 5/4 metered open on 80s HS[/quote]
What does that mean?
[/quote]
He's referring to the musical measure of the open theme.
/only knows what a 5/4 meter is thanks to Brubeck's "Take Five"
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[quote name=\'Chief-O\' post=\'220409\' date=\'Jul 17 2009, 10:50 PM\'][quote name=\'golden-road\' post=\'220408\' date=\'Jul 17 2009, 09:44 PM\'][quote name=\'tpirfan28\' post=\'220380\' date=\'Jul 17 2009, 06:38 PM\']/also a geek for the 5/4 metered open on 80s HS[/quote]
What does that mean?
[/quote]
He's referring to the musical measure of the open theme.
/only knows what a 5/4 meter is thanks to Brubeck's "Take Five"
[/quote]
The "Mission: Impossible" theme is also a good example of a peice written in 5/4 time.
Growing up with the Davidson version reruns, it's the version I most think of, for better or worse. I have to agree that the music was one of the best parts of that version - but then music is usually a key reason why I like (or dislike) a show.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'220378\' date=\'Jul 17 2009, 05:33 PM\'][quote name=\'aaron sica\' post=\'220375\' date=\'Jul 17 2009, 03:21 PM\']I remember being confused by the scoring because on MG-HS one would get points per square,[/quote]
Which is one of the reasons I'm one of the few people who really liked that version of HS. I LOVED that scoring system. If that were to be applied to a standalone version of the show, I think the only change I'd consider making would be to bump individual squares to $50 per after the second game.
[/quote]
Count me among those who liked that system - if ever I decide to do HS on one of my Game Show Nights, I intend on using a form of it. Loved the scoring and the set from that version - Goodson's decision to make all questions multiple choice, not so much. I'm also iffy on the removal of the "can't win by default" rule.
/also really liked the "multiplier cards" for Super Match
//uses them when hosting MG
///easier to store in the apartment than a Star Wheel
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[quote name=\'Neumms\' post=\'220366\' date=\'Jul 17 2009, 03:30 PM\']Does anyone know why they picked Shadoe to do the announcing for Whoopi's version? It's not as if the tie back to Davidson's really bought them anything, unless they did it for kicks (which is cool).[/quote]
My guess? He was available. Probably the same reason he does The Late Late Show
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As an old-timer, it has to be the Marshall version. How can you deny the fact Marshall was "the Master of Ceremonies" there. His "object of the game" spiel is just flawless(though sometimes I wished he slip up once in awhile just for the fun of it). The stars were top-notch. Sure it didn't "need" a bonus game(though if you wanna call picking a star with a prize written on a piece of paper in an envolope that, well, so be it). It was just a daily get-together. Kenny Williams was great as announcer.
As for the others, Bergeron was good except when Whoopi was "hamming it up" most of the time & the end game near the end of the run was decent. As for Davidson, I'll just say this: an insane bunch that refused to keep the game moving at key points. So, Marshall tops them all
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[quote name=\'Joe Mello\' post=\'220416\' date=\'Jul 18 2009, 02:48 AM\']My guess? He was available.[/quote]
As I recall, didn't Shadoe record everything for HS '98? Other than Game Show Week 2, I don't think he was in the studio.
-Jason
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While the '02'-03 season was great I'm surprised no one has mentioned that the final 'H2' season had the benefit of center square Martin Mull.
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Put me down for Marshall's Squares as well. Even though I saw both the Davidson & the Bergeron versions in person, the Marshall version always seemed to have the highest percentages of A-list celebs.
Also I have to give props for the Storybook Squares version. Based on the episode floating around in the trades, I loved what they did with the opening & the closing, the theme rocked, the show still ran at a good clip, and some of the questions & characters were geared more to the adults than the kids, IMHO.
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[quote name=\'PaulD\' post=\'220424\' date=\'Jul 18 2009, 09:12 AM\']I'm surprised no one has mentioned that the final 'H2' season had the benefit of center square Martin Mull.[/quote]
Perhaps no one felt like it. Or maybe we were just saving it for you.
Loved Martin Mull on Fernwood/America 2 Night.
A lovely funny man and gentleman.
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Growing up, Marshall's version was great, especially because the celebs were ones I grew up with. Didn't really watch the Davidson version. Pretty goofy. And didn't care for H2 with Whoopi. Too overbearing. Once she left and Henry Winkler took over production, I enjoyed it again. At least he tried to give it the charm and humor of the original. And now 'n then there would be an old favorite face in the lineup. It seemed to have some of the discipline and smoothness of the Marshall days. Even with the lowered budget. The c- and d-list celebs who tried to make Davidson/Whoopi Squares their own personal playground instead of letting the game be the star turned me off.
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[quote name=\'Don Howard\' post=\'220428\' date=\'Jul 18 2009, 10:42 AM\']Loved Martin Mull on Fernwood/America 2 Night.[/quote]
And I liked all the ways he got out of dancing in the new intro. The intro was okay, but I imagine taping those solo was beyond awkward. I don't blame Martin one bit.
-Jason
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Count me among the Marshall fans. Especially the daytime version, it had a much more relaxed pace than nighttime. Perhaps because the games straddled. Second , for me, is Bergeron post Whoopi. And Martin Mull was a superb center square.
IIRC in an interview, Merrill Heatter was asked what he thought of all the versions of HS. Of Davidson's, he said that the show was "too much like a circus, and not true to the original." While the latter part could be subjective, the first part is true for me anyway.
/Before anyone asks, the quote I believe came from TV Guide, but I could be wrong.
//Mull on Fernwood/America 2-Night was the best! Should be on a dvd box set!!
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The only problem I really had with Marshall's version was that it was too dry at times. Notice the Bergeron version has had more exposure on GSN, I'm guessing for that reason (ISTR the Marshall version getting pretty low ratings).
Even though I loved Marshall Squares growing up, and watched pretty well every syndicated show (school got in the way of the daytime version), I can totally understand why it didn't play well with GSN's audiences. It had a much different pace than the Bergeron version, and sometimes the jokes would seem a little flat. I had wondered at the time why Match Game reruns were doing so much better, especially since many of the stars on that were C-list as well, but MG had almost constant laughs and tom-foolery while HS had its share of serious moments which at times dragged on. Even Paul Lynde on occasion would just give the answer if he couldn't think of a funny zinger, depriving us of an expected laugh.
When Davidson's verison first came on I really liked it. The visual questions didn't bother me at first. I thought they added a neat element to the show.
Bergeron's version was a can't miss for me most of the time - who can forget the "You Fool" episode? I think it's just about the funniest game show episode in the history of the genre. This version also had its share of D-list celebrities (such as the one-minor-hit wonder Vitamin C), and in the beginning there was too much Whoopi. But the 6-year run did have its share of great moments, such as the two game show weeks, and Marshall stepping back behind the podium again.
To sum up, I like all three versions and can't really name a favorite. At different times, each one has been a favorite.
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I remember on Marshall's daytime version of HS, they had a contestant who was the spitting image of Wally Cox. After Peter joked with him during the intro, the man picked Wally Cox to start the game. After much laughter, Wally said four words that brought the house down. "This game is fixed." Everyone, including Peter, lost it. That's the funniest moment I remember fronm the show.
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I'm going to have to go against the grain here, but my order of preference is:
Davidson
Bergeron
Bauman
Marshall
Rationale:
Davidson: This was the version that made me like HS (I saw the Marshall version as a single digit-aged tot and didn't care for it, details later). It actually was the wild, manic atmosphere and numerous "tangents" the show went on that made me like the show. Put another way, it was what Match Game '90 should have been as far as the "onstage Hollywood party vibe" goes, and perhaps MG '90 was what HS '86 should have been as far as keeping the game moving along. JM J. Bullock I thought was actually funny, and I had never suspected that he was gay. Crazy as cats**t, yeah, but never gay.
Bergeron: Great revival, great stars, and Bergeron was the perfect straight man to Whoopi and the other celebs. Whoopi I think just went overboard in some respects, but I thought it was a great show, even though Whoopi's final 1-2 seasons was making the show tank, but it bounced back beautifully when the Fonz took over. I think if Fonzie took over one season earlier or TPTB gave HS one more season on the air (until 2005), then HS would've had a much longer run.
Bauman: Say what you will, but I thought MG/HS, with all its flaws was an orignal and novel concept and the merging of the two shows' formats was done brilliantly (why else would 'Net MG/HS Hour be such an Internet hit after all these years). Further, the elimination of the "no tic-tac-toe by default" rule was a good one, i'll explain should anyone ask. The two things that hurt the show was the caliber of celebs (mostly soap stars and NBC sitcom stars) and Jon Bauman, sad to say. If Marshall was at the helm and some better celebs was selected, the show would've had a much more respectable run. I like MG/HS on originality value alone.
Marshall: I want to say in no uncertain terms that Marshall's run was a great one and had most, if not all the A-list stars Hollywood had to offer. However for me, I thought the show was just a little too dry (read: its humor was over my head). As a kid, I always turned off HS for another game show on tv. As an adult, I have a much higher level of respect for Marshall's version, but it doesn't put his version ahead of his successors' versions.
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Marshall
Bergeron
Davidson
Bauman
In order, best to worst. You cannot compare the chemistry of Marshall and his band of regulars - Paul Lynde, Charley Weaver, Wally Cox, Rose Marie, George Gobel, etc. - to whoever the celebrity bookers could get to fill Bauman's squares.
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Come to think of it, Abby Dalton and George Gobel were the only two HS big-time
regulars to ever do Bauman's version.
Anyone else notice that MGHS is one of the few, if perhaps ONLY, G-T celeb show
Betty White DIDN'T do??
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Being a young'n, I grew up with Davidson's version and didn't see Marshall's until GSN started airing it. Having only seen Bauman's version one time, I don't feel I'm at the level to comment on it, so I'll focus on the other three.
I think all of them had their good and bad points, but I personally felt the best was Bergeron-first/second Whoopi years and first H2 year. I watched the show almost every day during these seasons and thought the show was a riot, especially with Bergeron as host. He was a perfect straight man who also knew how to crack a joke every once in a while. The overabundance of Whoopi and "double or nothing" bonus game turned me away (and having classes during the last season didn't help, either!).
I always liked Davidson's version as a kid, and I still kinda do, just less so than I once did. I do think that the show moves along way too slowly, but I also liked the extremely fun, outgoing atmosphere that the show had. I will admit that it slowed down the game considerably, and John's hosting didn't help too much, either. My brother and I always were big fans of Jm J. when we were growing up, though...we thought he was just sooo crazy...;).
Marshall's version is, of course, the classic, and Marshall was great as a host. But, except for the great zingers of Paul Lynde, Charley Weaver, and Rose Marie, I felt that the show was a little too subdued compared to the versions I grew up with (as well as MG). Also, some of the celebrities pretty much gave monologues as zingers that would drive me up a wall, and I did not find Wally Cox funny at all. Basically, it's a good show, but I can only take it a few episodes at a time.
So, although I can watch any version, in order of preference, and I almost feel the game show gods waiting to strike me for doing so, I'd go:
Bergeron
Davidson
Marshall
Anthony
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[quote name=\'GameShowGuru\' post=\'220449\' date=\'Jul 18 2009, 03:45 PM\']Further, the elimination of the "no tic-tac-toe by default" rule was a good one, i'll explain should anyone ask.[/quote]
Okay, I'll bite. Please explain. :-)
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[quote name=\'J.R.\' post=\'220472\' date=\'Jul 18 2009, 10:23 PM\'][quote name=\'GameShowGuru\' post=\'220449\' date=\'Jul 18 2009, 03:45 PM\']Further, the elimination of the "no tic-tac-toe by default" rule was a good one, i'll explain should anyone ask.[/quote]
Okay, I'll bite. Please explain. :-)
[/quote]
I think he means the rule where if your opponent goes for the block and misses, you have to earn the win yourself. MG/HS eliminated that rule; going for the block and missing results in a win for your opponent.
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[quote name=\'golden-road\' post=\'220473\' date=\'Jul 18 2009, 11:43 PM\']I think he means the rule where if your opponent goes for the block and misses, you have to earn the win yourself. MG/HS eliminated that rule; going for the block and missing results in a win for your opponent.[/quote]
Davidson's squares also eliminated that rule.
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I have no preference, actually. I like every version...well, save for the HS half of MG-HSH. Bauman, as great an actor as he is, couldn't host to save his life. And this is just my opinion, but I didn't think John Davidson was as bad as people say.
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[quote name=\'golden-road\' post=\'220473\' date=\'Jul 18 2009, 11:43 PM\'][quote name=\'J.R.\' post=\'220472\' date=\'Jul 18 2009, 10:23 PM\'][quote name=\'GameShowGuru\' post=\'220449\' date=\'Jul 18 2009, 03:45 PM\']Further, the elimination of the "no tic-tac-toe by default" rule was a good one, i'll explain should anyone ask.[/quote]
Okay, I'll bite. Please explain. :-)
[/quote]
I think he means the rule where if your opponent goes for the block and misses, you have to earn the win yourself. MG/HS eliminated that rule; going for the block and missing results in a win for your opponent.
[/quote]
Correct, golden road. However, in hindsight I meant to have said, "I'll explain WHY the no tic-tac-toe by default rule was a good one should anyone ask. Anyway, since I'm here, I'll explain it.
I think the rule was a good one because there was actually 1/3 of the entire game devoted to HS while 2/3 of the game was devoted to MG. To help mitigate this "deficiency", HS needed to get in as many games as possible before time ran out. One of the ways to do this was to eliminate the "no tic-tac-toe by default" rule. And unlike MG, where score was kept in points, HS score was kept in dollars. Is having only one HS round due to a Gilbert Gottfried-esque "YOU FOOL!" moment consuming the entire HS segment worth the $100 you won, knowing that you could win $200 in the next game (and $300 the game after that, to say nothing of the $25 per square)? I think not.
Just my opinion...
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[quote name=\'GameShowGuru\' post=\'220449\' date=\'Jul 18 2009, 01:45 PM\'](why else would 'Net MG/HS Hour be such an Internet hit after all these years).[/quote]
http://i377.photobucket.com/albums/oo216/0...ani/lol_wut.jpg (http://\"http://i377.photobucket.com/albums/oo216/03redTuscani/lol_wut.jpg\")
Further, the elimination of the "no tic-tac-toe by default" rule was a good one, i'll explain should anyone ask.
Yeah, I'd kinda like to hear this explanation too. (And this comes from someone who *likes* the Bauman show.)
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[quote name=\'DJDustman\' post=\'220475\' date=\'Jul 18 2009, 08:55 PM\']Davidson's squares also eliminated that rule.[/quote]
Certainly Davidson seemed to think so, but you are wrong. I know I've told the story before: a colleague at the TV stations I worked at used to be one of the audio guys for Davidson Squares, and he told me that they had to stop Davidson from awarding a default win ALL THE TIME. "Circle gets the <producer squawks in Davidson's IFB>...no, we can't put a circle there; you have to earn that yourself." ALL THE TIME.
(Though I don't think the rule applied to five-square wins, or if it did it was haphazardly applied at best. I think the situation came up at least once where the final square was up for grabs, whoever got it got a five-square win, but since for one of the players it was also a THREE-square win, the rule applied to them and them only.)
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[quote name=\'Gameshowcrackers\' post=\'220330\' date=\'Jul 17 2009, 02:42 AM\']What was your favorite all time version of Hollywood Sqaures?
Was it the original starring genial emcee Peter Marshall and featuring regulars, Charley Weaver, Wally Cox and Paul Lynde in the center square.
Was it the manic incarnation which ran from 1986 to 1989 with the jazzy theme tune hosted by original Hollywood Squares regular, John Davidson and featuring the voice of America's top 40, Shadoe Stevens who was also a regular on the show.
Or perhaps you liked the last version which ran from 1998 to 2004 emceed by Dancing with the Stars host, Tom Bergeron.[/quote]
Besides MG/HS, there's another version you left out: the syndicated daily Marshall version with the $100,000 tournaments (which, IIRC, was based on an NBC $100,000 HS tournament featuring two contestants from its four game shows at the time).
Personally, I put the daytime NBC Marshall episodes at the top, especially near the end of the run when they added the "bonus round" (each celebrity had a prize; the largest was $5000).
-- Don
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'220487\' date=\'Jul 19 2009, 05:53 AM\']Certainly Davidson seemed to think so, but you are wrong. I know I've told the story before: a colleague at the TV stations I worked at used to be one of the audio guys for Davidson Squares, and he told me that they had to stop Davidson from awarding a default win ALL THE TIME. "Circle gets the <producer squawks in Davidson's IFB>...no, we can't put a circle there; you have to earn that yourself." ALL THE TIME.
(Though I don't think the rule applied to five-square wins, or if it did it was haphazardly applied at best. I think the situation came up at least once where the final square was up for grabs, whoever got it got a five-square win, but since for one of the players it was also a THREE-square win, the rule applied to them and them only.)[/quote]
My apologies, I don't think I was clear. I meant the 5 square win issue where if the contestant got it wrong, the opponent would get the square and the win. This would eliminate any "You Fool" incidents. I have a plethora of episodes to prove this situation.
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[quote name=\'DJDustman\' post=\'220497\' date=\'Jul 19 2009, 12:40 PM\']My apologies, I don't think I was clear. I meant the 5 square win issue where if the contestant got it wrong, the opponent would get the square and the win. This would eliminate any "You Fool" incidents. I have a plethora of episodes to prove this situation.[/quote]
Yes, on this I think we agree. But, like I said, I'm pretty sure there was at least one time where they let the three-square-win rule supercede the five-square one, which just highlights how dippy it is to enforce the rule in one place but not another.
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I liked the Marshall (esp with Paul Lynde) and Bergeron versions (the Whoopi era). I fav'd the YouTube clip of the April Fool's day episode from 2003 (http://\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0dkasKa7Yw\").
--Charlie
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[quote name=\'Don Howard\' post=\'220428\' date=\'Jul 18 2009, 09:42 AM\']Loved Martin Mull on Fernwood/America 2 Night.
A lovely funny man and gentleman.[/quote]
And if you can find them, his 1970s albums are quite good. I have the last three he did -- I'm Everyone I've Ever Loved and Sex & Violins for ABC Records (which then collapsed and was sold to MCA) and Near Perfect/Perfect for Elektra -- all of which have great moments. And the chorus for his song "Men" has been stolen (likely without compensation) by loads of songwriters.
On topic: Bergeron, Marshall, Bauman, Davidson. Discuss.
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It would be hard for me to not favor the Marshall version, which I'm old enough to remember, although the Bergeron version had its moments.
Storybook Squares was cool too.
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[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'220400\' date=\'Jul 17 2009, 08:19 PM\'][quote name=\'alfonzos\' post=\'220398\' date=\'Jul 17 2009, 08:10 PM\']The players would often make bad plays just to keep the game going.[/quote]You can't be serious.
[/quote]As a heart attack! There wasn't much money on the line ($200) even by 1972 standards. I've seen episodes where Marshall had to admonish players twice or thrice during a game, "You're not watching the board!"
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[quote name=\'alfonzos\' post=\'220617\' date=\'Jul 20 2009, 08:17 PM\']As a heart attack! There wasn't much money on the line ($200) even by 1972 standards. I've seen episodes where Marshall had to admonish players twice or thrice during a game, "You're not watching the board!"[/quote]
There is an enormous difference between not watching the board (which, yes, occurred with some regularity) and deliberately picking a bad square just to prolong the game. There was often value in fishing for a Secret Square even if you had a chance to win, but otherwise there was absolutely no reason for a player to deliberately make a bad play. After all, if a player wins, then he gets to keep playing. That prolongs his visit, lets him pick his favorite stars again AND puts money in his pocket. To suggest that contestants ever screwed up on purpose (much less "often") is just nonsense.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'220632\' date=\'Jul 20 2009, 09:10 PM\']There is an enormous difference between not watching the board (which, yes, occurred with some regularity) and deliberately picking a bad square just to prolong the game. There was often value in fishing for a Secret Square even if you had a chance to win, but otherwise there was absolutely no reason for a player to deliberately make a bad play. After all, if a player wins, then he gets to keep playing. That prolongs his visit, lets him pick his favorite stars again AND puts money in his pocket. To suggest that contestants ever screwed up on purpose (much less "often") is just nonsense.[/quote]
Indeed. And if the Secret Square package is so darned appealing, that's okay. All those prizes plus some others would be available for the winning on the next show (on the daytime version). One of my dumb move "faves" is when there were two open cubicles on the board during a Secret Square game. One would've given the selector three in a row with a correct agree or disagree while the other would not. The dimwit selected the player that didn't offer a tic-tac-toe connection because, in the player's words, "I'm going to try for the Secret Square instead". This move backfired as the SS opportunity is where the TTT opportunity was. So the person's opponent ended up with both a 5-square win and the Secret Square prizes. The word "dumbass" escaped from my lips.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'220632\' date=\'Jul 20 2009, 09:10 PM\']There was often value in fishing for a Secret Square even if you had a chance to win, but otherwise there was absolutely no reason for a player to deliberately make a bad play. After all, if a player wins, then he gets to keep playing. That prolongs his visit, lets him pick his favorite stars again AND puts money in his pocket. To suggest that contestants ever screwed up on purpose (much less "often") is just nonsense.[/quote]I concur with the SS fishing idea. GSN reran the nighttime episodes, where the contestant only got one shot. They made up for it, though, by taking out the good china...and furs...and around the world trips...and I think the first one they showed had a woman winning a car in one game, as opposed to ten for the daytime show. No wonder people went hunting.
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[quote name=\'CarShark\' post=\'220648\' date=\'Jul 20 2009, 09:55 PM\'][quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'220632\' date=\'Jul 20 2009, 09:10 PM\']There was often value in fishing for a Secret Square even if you had a chance to win, but otherwise there was absolutely no reason for a player to deliberately make a bad play. After all, if a player wins, then he gets to keep playing. That prolongs his visit, lets him pick his favorite stars again AND puts money in his pocket. To suggest that contestants ever screwed up on purpose (much less "often") is just nonsense.[/quote]I concur with the SS fishing idea. GSN reran the nighttime episodes, where the contestant only got one shot. They made up for it, though, by taking out the good china...and furs...and around the world trips...and I think the first one they showed had a woman winning a car in one game, as opposed to ten for the daytime show. No wonder people went hunting.
[/quote]
Absolutely. Daytime shows had just one Secret Square game, and the prize packages were cumulative -- if you didn't win it today, they'd throw in some more prizes tomorrow. So, let's say about $1,500 in prizes was added per day, and started at $3,000 -- if you had a new Secret Square prize package one Monday and nobody won it during the week, by the following Monday it's up to $9,000. That would be worth about 50K today. Five-figure Secret Square wins were not uncommon, because they'd go unpicked (especially if the third game of a match was being played). If you're on the nighttime version and won the first two games, why not go fishing in the third?
Most undefeated champions (five-match winners, which meant they'd played between ten and fifteen games) usually won one or two Secret Squares during their run, to get their total winnings between $15,000 and $25,000 (before 1976 and the "pick a star, win a prize" bonus game). If the undefeated champion didn't win a Secret Square at all, they'd likely have about $5,000 in winnings ($2,000 in cash, plus the car awarded as a bonus).
Another note: the regulars seemed to be Secret Squares less often than the irregulars -- especially since games usually started with the lower left corner (Charley Weaver or George Gobel) or center square (Paul Lynde). I don't have any evidence of this; it was just my observation when watching the show.
Does anyone know if the producers told celebrities to drop the schtick/jokes if they were a Secret Square, and not try to bluff (of course, all Secret Square questions were multiple choice anyway)? This would seem to be the H/Q equivalent of the MG's Super Match.
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[quote name=\'calliaume\' post=\'220720\' date=\'Jul 21 2009, 10:49 AM\']If you're on the nighttime version and won the first two games, why not go fishing in the third?
Does anyone know if the producers told celebrities to drop the schtick/jokes if they were a Secret Square, and not try to bluff (of course, all Secret Square questions were multiple choice anyway)? This would seem to be the H/Q equivalent of the MG's Super Match.[/quote]
Peter actually brought up the idea of fishing to contestants when they had the option of going for the win after a failed block or picking a different star.
And Peter himself told the stars to get serious when a Secret Square was on the line--"because this could mean a lot of money."
And in his book, Peter said that the Secret Square was originally conceived as their version of a bonus round, since they didn't have one.
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[quote name=\'calliaume\' post=\'220720\' date=\'Jul 21 2009, 11:49 AM\']Does anyone know if the producers told celebrities to drop the schtick/jokes if they were a Secret Square, and not try to bluff (of course, all Secret Square questions were multiple choice anyway)? This would seem to be the H/Q equivalent of the MG's Super Match.[/quote]
I would assume that there was mention of it, and they probably avoided making the SS a celebrity who wouldn't agree to that request.
Then again, the SS question was always a straightforward serious trivia question (not an "According to Ann Landers...."). And during celebrity briefings, when funny lines were fed to celebrities for questions they may get, I would bet that there was never any mention as to what the SS question(s) would be, so if the celebs were trying to make a funny out of an important question, they were doing it on their own "without a net" and probably risking a return visit or being a Secret Square in the process.
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Weren't SS questions generally multiple-choice? That alone should've eliminated the possibility of joking around with so much on the line. Also would've narrowed the range of answers for a celebrity to choose from; if they wanted to still bluff, they only had 3 choices instead of a broad range.
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[quote name=\'TimK2003\' post=\'220770\' date=\'Jul 21 2009, 07:34 PM\']. . . they probably avoided making the SS a celebrity who wouldn't agree to that request.[/quote]I recall reading (can't remember whether it was in Peter's book or elsewhere) that Paul Lynde was one celeb who requested never to be the SS because he didn't like the pressure of it (and probably didn't like not getting to crack a joke).
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[quote name=\'Mike Tennant\' post=\'220814\' date=\'Jul 22 2009, 09:34 AM\'][quote name=\'TimK2003\' post=\'220770\' date=\'Jul 21 2009, 07:34 PM\']. . . they probably avoided making the SS a celebrity who wouldn't agree to that request.[/quote]I recall reading (can't remember whether it was in Peter's book or elsewhere) that Paul Lynde was one celeb who requested never to be the SS because he didn't like the pressure of it (and probably didn't like not getting to crack a joke).
[/quote]
Even so, there were times when he was tabbed (there was one episode GSN showed where he was, and he seemed to be mouthing the words "No, never" to the celeb in the cubicle next to him [as if responding to a question about how often he's been the SS]).
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[quote name=\'SRIV94\' post=\'220815\' date=\'Jul 22 2009, 10:59 AM\'][quote name=\'Mike Tennant\' post=\'220814\' date=\'Jul 22 2009, 09:34 AM\'][quote name=\'TimK2003\' post=\'220770\' date=\'Jul 21 2009, 07:34 PM\']. . . they probably avoided making the SS a celebrity who wouldn't agree to that request.[/quote]I recall reading (can't remember whether it was in Peter's book or elsewhere) that Paul Lynde was one celeb who requested never to be the SS because he didn't like the pressure of it (and probably didn't like not getting to crack a joke).
[/quote]
Even so, there were times when he was tabbed (there was one episode GSN showed where he was, and he seemed to be mouthing the words "No, never" to the celeb in the cubicle next to him [as if responding to a question about how often he's been the SS]). [/quote]
I remember Paul being the Secret Square on both the daytime and nighttime versions. Once he absolutely couldn't believe it. Peter said "Get a shot of Paul, he's in shock!"
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I remember Paul being the Secret Square on both the daytime and nighttime versions. Once he absolutely couldn't believe it. Peter said "Get a shot of Paul, he's in shock!"
I remember one nighttime show where he was actually the secret square two games in a row.
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'220908\' date=\'Jul 23 2009, 02:07 PM\']
I remember Paul being the Secret Square on both the daytime and nighttime versions. Once he absolutely couldn't believe it. Peter said "Get a shot of Paul, he's in shock!"
I remember one nighttime show where he was actually the secret square two games in a row.
[/quote]
They were tricky sometimes.
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IIRC, once on the daytime version, George Foreman was the secret square the entire week. I don't recall how many times he was picked during the SS games.