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There have been a few times in Gameshowland where hosts had their own game show production company.
But who of those hosts, despite having their own company, still went on and hosted for one of their "competitors"?
For example, Monty Hall hosted Goodson/Todman's "(All Star)Beat The Clock" in-between Hatos/Hall's LMAD incarnations...
Bob Eubanks still hosted Chuck Barris' "Newlywed Game" while Bob hosted & produced "All Star Secrets".
Any others who 'moonlighted' away from their own Game Show production companies?
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Mr. Martindale on High Rollers.
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[quote name=\'TimK2003\' date=\'Sep 22 2005, 06:55 PM\']
For example, Monty Hall hosted Goodson/Todman's "(All Star)Beat The Clock" in-between Hatos/Hall's LMAD incarnations...
Bob Eubanks still hosted Chuck Barris' "Newlywed Game" while Bob hosted & produced "All Star Secrets".
Any others who 'moonlighted' away from their own Game Show production companies?
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Wink Martindale hosted High Rollers while WM Enterprises was co-producing Bumper Stumpers and Martindale-Gilden was producing Second Honeymoon on CBN. He also hosted Last Word while Bumper Stumpers was still in production.
Bert Convy was still hosting Super Password and later hosted the MG90 pilot while Bert and Burt Productions were co-producing WLOD and 3rd Degree(the latter began after SP ended).
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Dick Clark hosted "Winning Lines" while his company was producing "Greed."
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In 52-53, John Reed King was hosting "Where Was I?" on Dumont for White-Rosenberg Productions while hosting "Why?" (with assistant Bill Cullen) on ABC for his own production company.
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[quote name=\'TimK2003\' date=\'Sep 22 2005, 06:55 PM\']There have been a few times in Gameshowland where hosts had their own game show production company. But who of those hosts, despite having their own company, still went on and hosted for one of their "competitors"?
For example, Monty Hall hosted Goodson/Todman's "(All Star)Beat The Clock" in-between Hatos/Hall's LMAD incarnations...
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I don't think Hatos-Hall had anything active at the time Monty was hosting Beat the Clock.
Our webmaster has noted elsewhere that it's possible Hatos-Hall had a busted pilot at CBS, and Monty was given the job to host this instead. Chris, could you refresh my memory?
From Mark Evanier's All-New All-Star Beat the Clock entry on his ticket site (http://\"http://www.povonline.com/TVTickets.htm\"), after nothing Tattletales' payoffs of the studio audience, which allowed homeless people to get meals for a couple of days:
This was a revival of an earlier Goodson-Todman show — one I never liked. Didn't like it when Bud Collyer hosted the original, didn't like the revival with Jack Narz, didn't like the next revival with Gene Wood, didn't like this one with Monty Hall. I haven't seen the subsequent one with Gary Kroeger but I know I won't like it; not if it consists of people having to do silly stunts before the clock runs down. Audiences didn't warm to this version, either on TV or in person. The producers tried the Tattletales gimmick of having celebrities compete to win cash for the studio audience, and they still had trouble packing the house. Even the homeless folks decided they'd rather go hungry.
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Also, Betty White's autobiography notes Allen Ludden and Grant Tinker had formed a production company, EllTee Productions, around the time Password '75 was ending or Stumpers was cranking up, but obviously nothing made it to air.
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[quote name=\'dzinkin\' date=\'Sep 22 2005, 07:21 PM\']Dick Clark hosted "Winning Lines" while his company was producing "Greed."
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And if anyone wants to consider PUTTIN' ON THE HITS a game show (since some consider GONG to be one), Clark's production company produced POTH while Clark was hosting PYRAMID.
And if they don't, they don't. :)
Doug -- and the countdown to 1500 continues
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Jack Barry hosted "The Big Surprise" for Louis Cowan's Entertainment Productions while his company produced several shows.
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Betty White's autobiography notes Allen Ludden and Grant Tinker had formed a production company, EllTee Productions, around the time Password '75 was ending or Stumpers was cranking up, but obviously nothing made it to air.
Curt, you have found the missing link! I've but skimmed Bets' bio in the bookstore, but had I read it studiously I would have learned about EllTee.
During the run of P+ we knew that Ludden had some kind of mysterious office in Studio City with a secretary named Gail. Allen's call time sheets and emcee language changes were sent to Gail at this office. I've suspected that Allen was working with/for Grant Tinker during this time, now I know the rest of the story. We were thrown off the scent a little bit due to the fact that Allen and Betty's paychecks were made out to Allbets Productions.
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[quote name=\'TimK2003\' date=\'Sep 22 2005, 07:55 PM\']There have been a few times in Gameshowland where hosts had their own game show production company.
But who of those hosts, despite having their own company, still went on and hosted for one of their "competitors"?
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Jack Barry hosted a pilot for Goodson-Todman while he was developing TJW. Don't know if that counts.
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In a bizarre twist of game show history, Goodson once took on Jack Barry as some kind of weird pseudo-partner. The bastard child of that relationship was The Joker's Wild, the pilot of which was emceed by Allen Ludden. Eventually the relationship between Barry and Goodson wore out and the next thing you know, Barry displaces Ludden as emcee and Enright displaces Goodson as co-packager of TJW. Basically Goodson helped breathe life into the scandal-tainted corpse of his former competitor. Goodson then wound up producing the former B&E show Concentration while B&E obtained the rights to produce Tic Tac Dough. B&E later went on to produce a blatant rip-off (IMO) of Family Feud. Jack Barry wound up with an FM station in Redondo Beach and a cheap-ass cable company, while Goodson and Todman had local newspapers in New England. And Merv still owns the Beverly Hilton. Despite the urging of people in his company, Goodson never owned the office building at 6430 Sunset Boulevard, nor any other California real estate that I am aware of, which would have been a good investment for him considering. Goodson did have a formidable art collection. And at various points in time, radio station KRLA has been owned by some combination of Goodson, Todman, Art Linkletter and Bob Hope.
And that concludes this episode of "Diversified Holdings of Game Show Packagers".
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[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Sep 23 2005, 12:05 PM\']In a bizarre twist of game show history, Goodson once took on Jack Barry as some kind of weird pseudo-partner. ... B&E later went on to produce a blatant rip-off (IMO) of Family Feud.
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Do you think that pseudo-partnering lead, in one way or another, to the 70's resurgance of games? One of those moments where the more good games there are, the more likely networks are to buy them?
It's early, but what's the blatant "Feud" ripoff?
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It's early, but what's the blatant "Feud" ripoff?
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I think he meant Play the Percentages, which was more built around general knowledge [and, in the bonus round, "people's feelings"].
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[quote name=\'byrd62\' date=\'Sep 24 2005, 10:11 AM\']
It's early, but what's the blatant "Feud" ripoff?
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I think he meant Play the Percentages, which was more built around general knowledge [and, in the bonus round, "people's feelings"].
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That's one, but IMHO the closer rip-off was "Hot Potato".
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[quote name=\'byrd62\' date=\'Sep 24 2005, 10:11 AM\']
It's early, but what's the blatant "Feud" ripoff?
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I think he meant Play the Percentages, which was more built around general knowledge [and, in the bonus round, "people's feelings"].
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Actually, "Play the Percentages" was more of a rip-off of "Card Sharks" (estimating answers in a 1-100 range, with the contestants obviously encouraged to think out loud as they reveal their guesses).
And yes, "Hot Potato" was a blatant rip-off of "Family Feud" but you have to spot Barry & Enright points for subtly admitting it on the actual show. In the early weeks when Bill is reading the rules from cue cards, his spiel includes the phrase, "What makes our game different is this..."
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[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Sep 23 2005, 12:05 PM\']In a bizarre twist of game show history, Goodson once took on Jack Barry as some kind of weird pseudo-partner. The bastard child of that relationship was The Joker's Wild, the pilot of which was emceed by Allen Ludden. Eventually the relationship between Barry and Goodson wore out and the next thing you know, Barry displaces Ludden as emcee and Enright displaces Goodson as co-packager of TJW. Basically Goodson helped breathe life into the scandal-tainted corpse of his former competitor. Goodson then wound up producing the former B&E show Concentration while B&E obtained the rights to produce Tic Tac Dough. B&E later went on to produce a blatant rip-off (IMO) of Family Feud.
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No mention of Hollywood Connection, an even more blatant ripoff of Match Game?
I don't have my copy of The Box handy, but that notes when Barry and someone else at G-T did man-on-the-street interviews for a possible pilot (sounds like it eventually became Hollywood's Talking, Barry's were funnier because he'd provided the answers. When Goodson objected, Barry's reply was "So what? It's just a pilot."
Did Barry go to G-T after Bob Stewart bade them farewell?
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Barry's reply was "So what? It's just a pilot."
I suspect, but cannot prove, that this is how they got into trouble with Twenty One. According to my hypothetical scenario, all run-throughs and the pilot of Twenty One were scripted/rigged. It wasn't until they went on the air with the first show and tried to play the game straight that Twenty One fell to pieces because the format was unworkable in practice. By scripting/rigging the run-thrus and pilot, they could make the format appear to be workable and effect a quick sale to NBC. Again, this is a hypothetical scenario on my part.
Do you think that pseudo-partnering led, in one way or another, to the 70's resurgance of games?
No. There has to be audience interest from the start. Even in those days, game/quiz shows were plagued with the problem of old demographics.
I don't remember ever seeing an episode of Hollywood Connection.
Perhaps someone can help piece together the timing of Jack Barry's post-scandal career. G-T didn't move to California until the late '60s, which is approximately when Barry was doing local talk and game shows on KTLA. Do we know for sure that the TJW pilot was done in California and when?
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An article in the 12/1/79 TV Guide provided this timeline for Jack Barry:
1958: Pre-scandal B&E sell rights to shows to NBC for 5 million. Post-scandal legal fees consume over a million.
1960: Moves from NYC to Hollywood, Florida to do a local show.
1962: Persuades KTLA to take him on as a packager. Hosts four local game shows. Management changes and Barry is dismissed.
Mid-60's: Acts as uncredited consultant to NBC's "You Don't Say" and creates "Everybody's Talking"
(without on-screen credit). Emcees game and kid's shows in Canada for Dan Enright and Screen Gems.
1968: Wins FCC approval to purchase FM station in Redondo Beach, CA.
November 68: CBS programming exec Fred Silverman commissions pilot for TJW.
1969: ABC taps Barry to host last five episodes of "Generation Gap."
1971: ABC schedules "The Reel Game."
1972: CBS programmer Bud Grant goes through old pilots and finds TJW.
No mention in the article of his work for G-T or his acting stints in "The Addams Family," "Batman" or "What's My Perversion?"
Article also features a small color photo of 1955's "The Big Surprise."
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[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Sep 24 2005, 03:40 PM\']Do we know for sure that the TJW pilot was done in California and when?
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Check this Ebay link (http://\"http://cgi.ebay.com/The-Jokers-Wild-TV-Game-Show-Ticket-12-8-68_W0QQitemZ6559769579QQcategoryZ1306QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem\"), a poster confirmed in the thread here that it was a ticket to the pilot.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Sep 24 2005, 03:40 PM\'][I don't remember ever seeing an episode of Hollywood Connection.
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Picture Match Game with lesser celebrities, lousy writing, and Jim Lange instead of Gene Rayburn trying to run things.
Limped through a year because it was paired with TJW in many markets, but obviously they planned to put in the TTD revival quickly. I have a theory B-E had the syndicated version planned for a long time, and CBS asked them to do 9 weeks on the network because it was easy to throw together, Pass the Buck wasn't working, and they may not have been allowed to rerun All in the Family until September.
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That ticket is dated more than two years before the debut of Password on ABC. I'm inclined to think G-T didn't have much of a foothold in L.A. at the time.
KTLA was purchased in 1964 by singing cowboy Gene Autry. The first thing Autry did was to get rid of the local game shows and put on shows starring himself.
One wonders what Barry did as an "uncredited consultant" to You Don't Say. I met Jack Barry once at NATPE in early 1976 where he was hawking Break the Bank. He came across as a brusque a-hole.
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I have a theory B-E had the syndicated version planned for a long time, and CBS asked them to do 9 weeks on the network because it was easy to throw together, Pass the Buck wasn't working, and they may not have been allowed to rerun All in the Family until September.
I had read somewhere - either on an internet site or in an entertainment magazine - that "Tic Tac Dough" was supposed to be the first game show to run concurrently five days a week on the network, and in syndication. When the ratings for the network version tanked, the production company was a little unsure about even going ahead with the syndie version.
That would seem to mean that CBS was hoping "Tic Tac Dough" would be a big hit for them, but as we know it turned out differently.
I really forget exactly where I read that - it might have been on Steve Beverly's site. (By the way, is Beverly ever going to post the concluding part of the series on "The Price is Right"?)
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"All in the Family" had been on CBS daytime since late 1975, but CBS did have a committment to run "M*A*S*H" reruns in daytime, which they did starting in Sept. 78 for one year, the de facto replacement for TTD.
Do you think Monty Hall was moonlighting when he went to work for Dick Clark-Ron Greenberg Productions?
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CBS did have a committment to run "M*A*S*H" reruns in daytime, which they did starting in Sept. 78 for one year
Did BTC then replace M*A*S*H?
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AITF and M*A*S*H both went off CBS daytime in Sept of 79. BTC took AITF's 10am slot and "One Day at a Time" filled the 3:30pm slot M*A*S*H held.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'Sep 26 2005, 12:25 AM\']AITF and M*A*S*H both went off CBS daytime in Sept of 79. BTC took AITF's 10am slot and "One Day at a Time" filled the 3:30pm slot M*A*S*H held.
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Absolutely right (including the part about All in the Family moving from 3:30 to 10 a.m.). All in the Family originally displaced Match Game at 3:30 back in 1977, forcing the odious MG at 11 a.m. move. (You'd think I'd check my own CBS daytime schedule page (http://\"http://www.curtalliaume.com/cbs_day.html\") before posting, wouldn't you?)
Some shows can't be on early in the morning; they're too much to watch. Certainly All in the Family reruns qualify there. And Match Game likely had a huge audience of kids home from school at 3:30, which, of course, they lost by moving to 11.
Back to Jack Barry and other notes:
- Was Break the Bank's presentation at NATPE before it premiered on ABC (4/12/76)? If so:
1) there's another show B&E sold into syndication first, then got on the network
2) why woudn't Barry host the ABC edition, unless ABC told them either Kennedy had to host or no deal?
- G-T's first and second regular shows from California were both Password (the last year of the CBS run and the ABC run). They didn't really go whole hog in California until 1972, with TPIR and the syndie I've Got a Secret.
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Sep 25 2005, 09:08 PM\']I had read somewhere - either on an internet site or in an entertainment magazine - that "Tic Tac Dough" was supposed to be the first game show to run concurrently five days a week on the network, and in syndication. When the ratings for the network version tanked, the production company was a little unsure about even going ahead with the syndie version.
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...Which brings up an interesting question regarding TTD's 2 bonus games:
Did B&E plan to use the 3-X or O game in the syndicated run as well and instead switched to the B&E tried and true "Get $1K before you hit lightning/the Devil/The Bust Card, etc..." format after the failed CBS run? Or was the idea of 2 different bonus games (one for daytime, one for night), the original plan?
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- Was Break the Bank's presentation at NATPE before it premiered on ABC (4/12/76)?
Yes.
If so:
1) there's another show B&E sold into syndication first, then got on the network
2) why woudn't Barry host the ABC edition, unless ABC told them either Kennedy had to host or no deal?
I dunno. Was he emceeing TJW at the time? Perhaps TJW + BTB + Jack Barry Cable + KFOX + commuting to NY = too much on his plate? Also, if T.K. emceed the daytime version, ABC covered his salary. The salary of the nighttime emcee was covered by B&E, so why not pay yourself?
- G-T's first and second regular shows from California were both Password (the last year of the CBS run and the ABC run). They didn't really go whole hog in California until 1972, with TPIR and the syndie I've Got a Secret.
I was reminded today that G-T had an office in California in the '50s which was headed by Harris Katelman for the purpose of producing G-T's unspectacular dramatic shows.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Sep 26 2005, 09:35 PM\']I dunno. Was he emceeing TJW at the time? Perhaps TJW + BTB + Jack Barry Cable + KFOX + commuting to NY = too much on his plate? Also, if T.K. emceed the daytime version, ABC covered his salary. The salary of the nighttime emcee was covered by B&E, so why not pay yourself?
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TJW went off network in 1975 (not sure when KTLA started doing the reruns), then the syndie version hit in the fall of 1977.
Doug -- and the countdown to 1500 continues
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[quote name=\'SRIV94\' date=\'Sep 26 2005, 10:10 PM\']TJW went off network in 1975 (not sure when KTLA started doing the reruns), then the syndie version hit in the fall of 1977.
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IIRC, the EOTVGS said 1976-77, and the good ratings led to the revival.
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IIRC, the EOTVGS said 1976-77, and the good ratings led to the revival.
And more and more stations started picking up the reruns as that season went on. In my area, WIVB was airing an forgettable soap called "All That Glitters" at 1 p.m. each day. When the ratings tanked by the summer of 1977, "Joker's Wild" popped up in its place - so we got to see about two months worth of 1975 episodes before the new ones kicked in. I was shocked when they promoed "Joker's Wild" returning to the schedule - back then it was almost unheard of to have syndie game show repeats.
Now...if only we could have had the late '70s "Gambit" reruns as well.... :(
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[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Sep 26 2005, 10:35 PM\']
- Was Break the Bank's presentation at NATPE before it premiered on ABC (4/12/76)?
Yes.
If so:
1) there's another show B&E sold into syndication first, then got on the network
2) why woudn't Barry host the ABC edition, unless ABC told them either Kennedy had to host or no deal?
I dunno. Was he emceeing TJW at the time? Perhaps TJW + BTB + Jack Barry Cable + KFOX + commuting to NY = too much on his plate? Also, if T.K. emceed the daytime version, ABC covered his salary. The salary of the nighttime emcee was covered by B&E, so why not pay yourself?[snapback]97760[/snapback]
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The network "Joker's Wild" ended in 1975, so there was no conflict there. It may have been ABC preferring Kennedy to host the show.
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[quote name=\'davemackey\' date=\'Sep 27 2005, 10:32 AM\']The network "Joker's Wild" ended in 1975, so there was no conflict there. It may have been ABC preferring Kennedy to host the show.
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Could be; I'm also wondering if ABC had Kennedy signed to a contract (like NBC later did) that guaranteed him a salary whether he was working or not. Obviously Tom was the right choice for the You Don't Say revival and Break the Bank, and he wouldn't have been a good fit for The Neighbors.
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And as for the end game on "BTB," I'm assuming that they intended to straddle on the network version and if "Squares" didn't have an end game then, they didn't need to have one, either. However, I would guess that Barry and Enright decided that the weekly version, with no straddling or carryover, needed a more definitive ending than "our time has run out, since we're in the middle of a game you'll each receive the cash for each box you captured," since it didn't have a scoring system like "Squares" that allowed for a grand prize at the end.
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[quote name=\'davemackey\' date=\'Sep 27 2005, 10:32 AM\']It may have been ABC preferring Kennedy to host the show.
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ABC was not alone in their preference of Tom.
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I was shocked when they promoed "Joker's Wild" returning to the schedule - back then it was almost unheard of to have syndie game show repeats.
Now...if only we could have had the late '70s "Gambit" reruns as well.... :(
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When B&E revived TJW back in 1977, they did something we commonly see in retail today: BUY ONE, GET ONE FREE. Here's what they offered: Buy the new TJW, and your station will get reruns of the CBS series for free for a certain amount of weeks. It was a no brainer for stations on a budget.