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This has probably been discussed ad infinitum, but since both '80s incarnations of Password have been reinstated on GSN's schedule, the matter of Password Plus vs. Super Password has taken up some of my thought as of late. Especially since, watching both shows, I, despite being a PW+ supporter, have begun to come around as far as SP is concerned. I don't know, in some ways I've enjoyed watching it a little more than PW+ as of late. For instance, is it just me, or were the passwords used on SP a bit more challenging, even despite having to fit in the puzzles? Certainly the Ca$hword added a bit of complexity, either way. On the other hand, PW+ had the play/pass strategy and more challenge in clue giving. So it remains as close a race as ever.
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I'd have to give the slight nod to "Password Plus". When "Super Password" came on, I couldn't really figure out why they called it "Super..." - sure, they added a few tweaks here and there, but there really wasn't much difference in game play between that and "...Plus". Having said that, I think I grew a better appreciation for "Super..." from watching GSN reruns over the years.
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I liked SP's changing partners mid-stream and the Cashword, I would have preferred a set piece of some sort rather than just computer graphics for the SP bonus round.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'May 11 2005, 09:35 AM\']I liked SP's changing partners mid-stream.
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Password + did the same thing.
As for both shows, I've found myself gravitating toward Super Password. SP seems to have more of a warmer attitude, and Bert Convy, despite his marginal at best hosting ability, seems to bring a friendlier atmosphere than Tom Kennedy (who's not exactly blowing the doors off on his hosting either). Plus the passwords seems a bit more challenging on SP.
Tyshaun
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I liked all four hosts (including Bill Cullen's month as a substitute--never saw the episode where Jack Narz briefly took over), so I won't rate the emcee styles.
I do wish the 2nd team to play a password would've been allowed two clues if the first team gave no clue on Super Password. I can't prove it, of course, but I suspect some players allowed a word to "bounce" on purpose. I also would not have permitted the same clue to be allowed by either team for a password.
Going for the rhyme and sometimes singing the clue (which is how "supercalifragulisticexpialadocious" or however you spell it got nailed on Password Plus) I thought was rather clever.
I do prefer the rule where illegal clues put the word out of play on Super Password instead of just knocking off 20%. I did find it interesting how you could win more money if you didn't win The End Game on SP until your second visit than if you won it both times. Win both bonus rounds=$10000. Get eight words in your first bonus and nabbing all ten words in your second trip=$10800.
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I too, am leaning towards SP. The one thing that erks me about Password Plus is that "no opposites rule". Granted if the word "HAPPY' came up, you had to think of a synonym for it rather than to say..., "sad" (with the stress level in your voice changing).
Also something else on SP that I like is when you say a form of the password, they give you a second shot at saying it correctly. A few weeks ago a woman gave the form of the word and got the (whoop-whoop) SFX, and unfortunatly got the form of the word wrong, still!
This rule doesn't apply in the Super Password round...the judges give you the word regardless if it is past, present, or future tense.
The Ca$hword feature is one of the best things about the show. I mean, you can still lose at Super Password but if you won the $200 puzzle and won the Ca$hword, you still get (at least) $1200. ($1000 starting off at CW and the $200 Puzzle.) Also on last week, the Ca$hword climbed to $6000 but the SP was worth $5000. Sometimes awkward, but cool none the less.
And on Super Password, the words were more difficult however you could use the opposites rule! Rule wise, I think SP was very light and lenient.
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Let's go through the tale of the tape, as Nick Bakay would say:
Host: PP, Ludden/Kennedy/Cullen. SP: Convy. Advantage PP. Three giants.
Set: PP: So many crosses, Dracula wouldn't have survived 5 seconds. SP: Minimalist, but nice placement of the board. Advantage: SP. Second only to the ABC-era set.
Celebs: PP: David Letterman. SP: Dick Martin. Advantage: PP.
Betty White factor: PP: With Allen. SP: Smashing the Ca$hword toaster. Advantage, in an upset: SP (although I'm sure Betty would differ).
Name for end game: PP: Alphabetics. SP: Super Password. Advantage: PP. (Would You Don't Say have called its Bonus Board You Don't Say!?)
Difficulty: PP: No opposites. SP: Tougher words. Advantage: Push. There are no winners here.
Theme: PP: Fanfare! SP: Chirpy! Advantage: PP.
There you have it. By a 4-2 vote, it's Plus over Super. And remember, the numbers never lie, even about a word game.
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How does one explain SP being the longest running Password revamp and its longevity in what was universally considered the toughest time slot in daytime TV?
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In my heart of hearts, I still love old school "Password" the most--but if I were to do a revival, it would be the "Plus/Super" format. And of the two, I'd lean towards "Plus" because of the better hosts (yes, even Ludden) and a generally smoother pace. (Convy's schmoozing style was better served on "TattleTales" and "WLOD.")
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'May 11 2005, 01:47 PM\']How does one explain SP being the longest running Password revamp and its longevity in what was universally considered the toughest time slot in daytime TV?
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After 23 different occupants of the 12 noon slot over 10 years (count 'em!) (http://\"http://www.curtalliaume.com/nbc_day.html\"), it probably occurred to someone they were overthinking the issue, and as long as they had a reasonably good show, with a time-tested format, from a reliable packager, that was just as good an option as any.
I just haven't warmed to Bert's style of hosting the show. I don't think Kennedy was any great shakes either early on, but he had the excuse of a sudden entrance to the job.
Funny thing about Super Password; they went about 3/4 of the way with new technology (chyron graphics and those tiny monitors for the clue givers, but cardboard pieces for the puzzle). Just seems odd.
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[quote name=\'calliaume\' date=\'May 11 2005, 02:37 PM\'][quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'May 11 2005, 01:47 PM\']How does one explain SP being the longest running Password revamp and its longevity in what was universally considered the toughest time slot in daytime TV?
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After 23 different occupants of the 12 noon slot over 10 years (count 'em!) (http://\"http://www.curtalliaume.com/nbc_day.html\"), it probably occurred to someone they were overthinking the issue, and as long as they had a reasonably good show, with a time-tested format, from a reliable packager, that was just as good an option as any.
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And all of this because Lin Bolen didn't think Art Fleming was a stud. :)
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'May 11 2005, 01:47 PM\']How does one explain SP being the longest running Password revamp and its longevity in what was universally considered the toughest time slot in daytime TV?
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Not every NBC affiliate ran it at noon. WJKG channel 33 in Fort Wayne, IN (now WISE) ran it at 3pm.
I've been wanting to post this concept, so I figure this is a good place as any:
BUILD A BETTER PASSWORD
If (big if) Fremantle came to us to develop a new version of Password, which options would make the best game?
- Classic scoring or puzzles?
- Play/pass option?
- Change partners in midgame or after end game?
- Bonus: ABC version or Alphabetics?
- Include Cashword in midgame?
My idea is this: a classic Password round, then play puzzles until time runs out. Play Cashword after the first puzzle, then change partners after that. High score plays Alphabetics (P+ title, SP rules) for $5,000. Of course, like I've said before, most of the passwords would have to be the TV-14 variety in order to get the attention of today's audiences.
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[quote name=\'GS Warehouse\' date=\'May 11 2005, 03:32 PM\']BUILD A BETTER PASSWORD
If (big if) Fremantle came to us to develop a new version of Password, which options would make the best game?
- Classic scoring or puzzles?
- Play/pass option?
- Change partners in midgame or after end game?
- Bonus: ABC version or Alphabetics?
- Include Cashword in midgame?
Of course, like I've said before, most of the passwords would have to be the TV-14 variety in order to get the attention of today's audiences.
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One celebrity giving clues to both contestants, man-on-the-street interviews, and the announcer whispering "The password is... fellatio."
Seriously, if Password only gets so-so ratings on GSN, I don't see there being much of an audience for a revival.
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[quote name=\'GS Warehouse\' date=\'May 11 2005, 03:32 PM\']I've been wanting to post this concept, so I figure this is a good place as any:
BUILD A BETTER PASSWORD
If (big if) Fremantle came to us to develop a new version of Password, which options would make the best game?
- Classic scoring or puzzles?
- Play/pass option?
- Change partners in midgame or after end game?
- Bonus: ABC version or Alphabetics?
- Include Cashword in midgame?
My idea is this: a classic Password round, then play puzzles until time runs out. Play Cashword after the first puzzle, then change partners after that. High score plays Alphabetics (P+ title, SP rules) for $5,000. Of course, like I've said before, most of the passwords would have to be the TV-14 variety in order to get the attention of today's audiences.
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Been awhile since anyone has played "Password Challenge" in any form.
Using the time format that I think you alluded to, two teams playing the full game together (switching, to me, disrupts the flow) could earn money for guessing the password as well as the puzzles. The words were $25 for the first two puzzles, $50 for the third, and $75 for the fourth and thereafter. The scoring gets interesting for the puzzles since the more words played, the less its' worth ($500-$100 for the first two, $1000-$200 for the third, and $1500-$300 for the fourth and thereafter). In addition, PC uses the "Ca$hword" element after the second puzzle, where the leading team gets to play (not necessarily who solved the puzzle).
So the winning team gets to play "Alphabetics" for $20,000.
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Roughly on the topic, my mind is a bit fuzzy on when Password was played on Ellen. I know they pretty much did old school PW, but am I correct in recalling that Ellen doubled as host and panelist (with Betty White, of course).
Also, speaking of OS Password, I haven't seen that in a while and wonder if proper names came up on the CBS and ABC incarnations as much as on PW+/SP.
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[quote name=\'JMFabiano\' date=\'May 11 2005, 08:09 PM\']Roughly on the topic, my mind is a bit fuzzy on when Password was played on Ellen. I know they pretty much did old school PW, but am I correct in recalling that Ellen doubled as host and panelist (with Betty White, of course).
Also, speaking of OS Password, I haven't seen that in a while and wonder if proper names came up on the CBS and ABC incarnations as much as on PW+/SP.
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Proper names seemed to come up much more on P+ and SP than on the 60s Password, at least judging by what GSN has shown.
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[quote name=\'GS Warehouse\' date=\'May 11 2005, 03:32 PM\']BUILD A BETTER PASSWORD
If (big if) Fremantle came to us to develop a new version of Password, which options would make the best game?
- Classic scoring or puzzles?
- Play/pass option?
- Change partners in midgame or after end game?
- Bonus: ABC version or Alphabetics?
- Include Cashword in midgame?
My idea is this: a classic Password round, then play puzzles until time runs out. Play Cashword after the first puzzle, then change partners after that. High score plays Alphabetics (P+ title, SP rules) for $5,000. Of course, like I've said before, most of the passwords would have to be the TV-14 variety in order to get the attention of today's audiences.
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I like the idea with the exception of changing partners mid-game. It seems people just start to "gel" then things go cold again IMO although some partners are just good while other partners just plain suck. The only reason anyone would change partners mid-game is to make the playing ground more fair. They should stick with the same partners throughout the game and have the scouts pay more attention to whom they are planning to use as guests.
I would also use the SP rounds (as far as points system is concerned) over P+. Pass or play option would be into effect, Ca$hword after round 1 OR 2, small monitors or PDA-like devices to see the passwords (it bugged me in Pyramid with the cheesy laptops... almost looked like they didn't want to spend big $$ in case the show flopped so that they could then pick up the laptops and use them for something else), "The password is..." guy would be back, and Betty White would be there for the first and last weeks of episodes for that version (Betty White's over 80 now, she may not be able to wait until the final week). Oh yeah, there's no reason to digitize everything but do this instead: Big LCD screen for the puzzle but use P+ "slider thing" to reveal the passwords (sorry for the lack of the proper terminology). I like physical things that move in game shows instead of the fake gfx FF reveal answer flip. And as far as a name, call it "Tournament Password" and have similar tournament rules as in Pyramid where the 3 fastest Alphabetics contestants compete for $100,000. First one to finish Alphabetics wins the big one!
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[quote name=\'DrBear\' date=\'May 11 2005, 01:35 PM\']Name for end game: PP: Alphabetics. SP: Super Password. Advantage: PP. (Would You Don't Say have called its Bonus Board You Don't Say!?)
[/quote]
Well-reasoned and insightful as ever, Doc. That struck me as bizarre from the first day.
Then, too, there was Burt's "And tomorrow's 'Super Password' will be worth..." even though it was quite possible there'd be another endgame during the same episode.
And we mustn't leave out the "Shall we?" factor. "Let's put that password up on the board, shall we?" "Let's go back and play some more, shall we?" I've often thought that should be part of the Super Password drinking game--but then I've thought, "Gee, I really ought to get a life."
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Plus is the better by FAR.
Faster gameplay. Allen, while he may not be a celebrity schmoozer, kept the game moving.
More strategic gameplay. Pass/play should always be part of Password.
Scoring system, almost a toss-up, but it goes to Plus. The $500 format of Plus is much better, too.
Cashword swings the scale to Plus. A single word for $1,000? Wha? It's a joke. Plus, when the Cashword pot got to more than the bonus round, that's not awkward, that's plan bad form. Dumb dumb dumb. There are my three clues for Cashword.
Bonus round goes to Plus too. Physical prop, compared to a TV set. Static $5,000 compared to a growing jackpot. $50,000 for one minute's worth of work is Too Much Money.
In my mind, there's no comparison. It's more than Password, it's Password Plus.
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I agree, P+ was better. The ONLY way I would agree to a growing jackpot is if it was done in a Hot Potato fashion, where it reset for each new champion, and if you didn't make it the first time, you had a chance for $10,000 the next time, and so on.
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[quote name=\'GS Warehouse\' date=\'May 11 2005, 04:32 PM\']BUILD A BETTER PASSWORD
If (big if) Fremantle came to us to develop a new version of Password, which options would make the best game?
- Classic scoring or puzzles?
- Play/pass option?
- Change partners in midgame or after end game?
- Bonus: ABC version or Alphabetics?
- Include Cashword in midgame?
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-As much as I think the classic format works, I gotta give the advantage to the puzzles, but not by much. It adds to the game by making the contestant think, "OK, now I solved the password...now how does it fit in with the rest of the puzzle?"
-Play/Pass, I could honestly go either way. If you're playing Password Plus, yes. If you play SP, with the tougher words, it's moot, because most of the game would just be that- playing and passing. I guess it would all depend on how easy or hard the people behind the scenes planned on making the game.
-Partner change? Midgame.
-The Alphabetics/SP round I think was the better bonus round because of the challenge facing the team. Whereas before you just had to come up with the set amount of words in the set amount of time, with the other format you always had to mind what letter you were on. I'd also like the accumulating jackpot to return. I know Travis doesn't like it because of the factor that it's a lot of money for not a lot of work, but I see it like this. Say you're playing for the $55,000 in the Super Password round, and win it. You did something that hadn't been done in the previous ten times the round was played. I feel that you should at least be entitled to reap the benefits. Granted, the people after you may not have that same giant pot when they win, but the point remains the same.
-I like Cashword. I wouldn't have it go so high (maybe take a little longer to get there- $1,000 plus $500 a day?), but I think it works.
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Someone mentioned a SP drinking game... let's do that!
SUPER PASSWORD
One drink if
Bert says "shall we?", "moving right along"
Gene Wood whispers the password
Rich Jeffries is announcing
Bert announces he knows the puzzle, one more drink if he writes it down on a piece of paper
Bert says "on the board we have", and "you didn't need..."
Two drinks if
Bert accidentally reveals the password
The puzzleboard screws up in some fashion, one more drink if Tom, the puzzleboard operator, pops up.
Bert accidentally reveals the solution to the puzzle
Three drinks if
Gene appears on camera
The game is so long, the "end game" is not played that day
PASSWORD PLUS
ALLEN LUDDEN
One drink if
Allen gets flustered over a questionable clue
Allen gestures with his arm upon revealing the password
The camera gets a close up of Allen's face (according to Chris C, a must for Ludden)
Allen leans against the podium
Allen mentions Betty White
Two drinks if
Allen mentions his stomach pain
Allen sings
Says "Hi Doll"
Three drinks if
Allen loses it over a silly clue
TOM KENNEDY
One drink if
Tom mentions Allen or Betty
Tom says to the contestant "Tell us the (contestant's name) story"
Tom laughs
Two drinks if
Tom loses it so badly that he can barely get through the show
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[quote name=\'GS Warehouse\' date=\'May 11 2005, 03:32 PM\']I've been wanting to post this concept, so I figure this is a good place as any:
BUILD A BETTER PASSWORD
If (big if) Fremantle came to us to develop a new version of Password, which options would make the best game?
- Classic scoring or puzzles?
- Play/pass option?
- Change partners in midgame or after end game?
- Bonus: ABC version or Alphabetics?
- Include Cashword in midgame?
[/quote]
You've got questions, I've got answers (in order)...
-Puzzles -- but make each one worth $250 with $750 winning the game. Meaning the first round actually matters and it takes three puzzles to win the game.
-Definitely allow for play/pass
-Partner change after the second puzzle.
-Alphabetics (heck, SP could've called their endgame "the lightning round" as a way to salute the original...but I digress).
-Play the CA$HWORD after the second puzzle
...more thoughts. Just call the revival simply Password .We've gone more than a decade since SP. While a title such as Super Password Plus would be funny to us, the rest of the world wouldn't get the joke.
Also, if the score's tied 500-500, the civilians would play a tie-breaker puzzle. The player who had 500 first could elect to solve the puzzle first -- or let his/her opponent take a crack at it. From there, the civvies would take turns trying to solve the puzzle (1st password revealed for one player, the first 2/5 for the other, back to the first with 3/5 of the passwords revealed, the other tries with all but the last password revealed, if still no winner, each player gets one more guess with all five passwords on the board).
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Puzzles-- First puzzle is worth $500, second is worth $1000, third is worth $1500, and fourth is worth $2000. It takes $2500 to win the game to go to Alphabetics.
Opinion needed on this....do you think that if the players didn't get the puzzle on the last clue that the money should be added to the next amount...a la Tattletales (celebs all missed thus the money is added to the pot)?
Tough words, too bad so sad, no pass/play option here--It wasn't used on the original version of Password, why here? Had I gone with the "no opposites rule" then yes, but I'm keeping it simple.
Partner change, I like it. Keep it!
End Game (Alphabetics) Jackpot starts off at $10,000 and grows $5000 more each time not won. $500 a word will be offered if you don't get all ten.
Ca$hword....no not this version, it would be called PRIZEWORD. After the second puzzle is played, there would be a difficult word for the civie to guess and if they guess it, they win a nice prize. If they don't then that prize carries over to the next day and another prize will be added to the stash. Prizes would be worth at least $1000 and no more than $2000 in value. (remember Secret square stash).
Why ruin a good format???
This is one of the versions I came up with.
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[quote name=\'14gameshows\' date=\'May 12 2005, 08:36 AM\']Puzzles-- First puzzle is worth $500, second is worth $1000, third is worth $1500, and fourth is worth $2000. It takes $2500 to win the game to go to Alphabetics.
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Not bad, but you've hit upon the one flaw of SP's scoring system (which you've just replicated ×5)--solving the first puzzle does nothing to help you win the game. I'd make it $1000, $1000, $1500 and $2000, with $3000 needed to win. Yes, it's theoretically possible that puzzle 1 still becomes superfluous but it'd be less superfluous than your way.
Doug -- and the countdown to 7343 continues
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[quote name=\'whewfan\' date=\'May 12 2005, 04:51 AM\']
Someone mentioned a SP drinking game... let's do that!
SUPER PASSWORD
One drink if
Bert says "shall we?", "moving right along"
Gene Wood whispers the password
Rich Jeffries is announcing
Bert announces he knows the puzzle, one more drink if he writes it down on a piece of paper
Bert says "on the board we have", and "you didn't need..."
[/quote]
Earliest episodes: If in the end game, he describes the letters as the "initials letters of the password." As the show went on, I'd say tap a keg when Bert actually calls the words "passwords."
When he points out the check, "signed by Mark Goodson," during Ca$hword.
Two drinks if
Bert accidentally reveals the password
The puzzleboard screws up in some fashion, one more drink if Tom, the puzzleboard operator, pops up.
Bert accidentally reveals the solution to the puzzle
Three drinks if
Gene appears on camera
The game is so long, the "end game" is not played that day
PASSWORD PLUS
ALLEN LUDDEN
One drink if
Allen gets flustered over a questionable clue
Allen gestures with his arm upon revealing the password
The camera gets a close up of Allen's face (according to Chris C, a must for Ludden)
Allen leans against the podium
Allen mentions Betty White[/quote]
How could you forget:
If...
Allen asks "Have you got it at home?"
Addresses viewers who missed the last program, "If you weren't here last time, where were you?" (and such)
Reads a password from the home viewers
Two drinks if
Allen mentions his stomach pain
Allen sings
Says "Hi Doll"
Three drinks if
Allen loses it over a silly clue
TOM KENNEDY
One drink if
Tom mentions Allen or Betty
Tom says to the contestant "Tell us the (contestant's name) story"
Tom laughs
Tom calls the first password of a game a "$X00 puzzle" or otherwise mixes up the words "password" and "puzzle."
Mentions the complete name of the show in the course of the game(s).
Refers to an illegal clue as a "disqualification"
Newer one: builds up a possible match-winning puzzle ("If you're right/if it is ANSWER, you have won the game..." I remember him doing this for all the possible wins in the 1982 episodes)
Asks the audience to show by applause if they know the answer to the puzzle.
Two drinks if
Tom loses it so badly that he can barely get through the show
Tap a keg if:
Tom reads a password from a home viewer
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[quote name=\'14gameshows\' date=\'May 12 2005, 08:36 AM\']End Game (Alphabetics) Jackpot starts off at $10,000 and grows $5000 more each time not won. $500 a word will be offered if you don't get all ten.
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Too much consolation cash. $4500 possible for solving all but one? MMS. $200 per word maybe. I can go along with the top prize jackpot-increasing structure you've got there.
Unfortunately, the focus groups will insist that words like this be used. A typical Alphabetics list follows:
ANUS BOOBS CROTCH DISS ENEMA FART GIZZ HELL IMPOTENT JEZEBEL
Better no Password than 'Tude Password.
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[quote name=\'Don Howard\' date=\'May 12 2005, 10:46 AM\'][quote name=\'14gameshows\' date=\'May 12 2005, 08:36 AM\']End Game (Alphabetics) Jackpot starts off at $10,000 and grows $5000 more each time not won. $500 a word will be offered if you don't get all ten.
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Too much consolation cash. $4500 possible for solving all but one? MMS. $200 per word maybe. I can go along with the top prize jackpot-increasing structure you've got there.
Unfortunately, the focus groups will insist that words like this be used. A typical Alphabetics list follows:
ANUS BOOBS CROTCH DISS ENEMA FART GIZZ HELL IMPOTENT JEZEBEL
Better no Password than 'Tude Password.
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That's the front game. You still have to play the end game straight, even if that "MG'98" audience did fill in the blank for BEN __________ as "Dover."
(Of course, I agree with you, but I was just making a point. Hopefully, there'd be someone at Fremantle [Mandel?] who can remind them that the humor in "Password" comes out of the game playing, not the material. If the only clues players can use are the above, than so be it, wlthough it doesn't say much for the players.)
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[quote name=\'GS Warehouse\' date=\'May 11 2005, 03:32 PM\']-Puzzles -- but make each one worth $250 with $750 winning the game. Meaning the first round actually matters and it takes three puzzles to win the game.
[/quote]
Seems like a way to guarantee you'll only get one endgame per day--and frequently, to not get one in at all.
What's wrong with best-two-out-of-three wins $1000 (or whatever the budget decrees, maybe a nice handknitted sweater) and plays the Lightning Round?
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[quote name=\'uncamark\' date=\'May 12 2005, 11:12 AM\'](Of course, I agree with you, but I was just making a point. Hopefully, there'd be someone at Fremantle [Mandel?] ....
[/quote]
Nope. I believe Mr. I. has taken leave of Fremantle by now.
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Hmm, that makes it two game shows (SP and Body Language) in where the first puzzle makes no difference in the outcome of the game.
I would prefer the $500 a word for the end game. I don't think that it's MMS. I mean 9 words x $500 = $4500 is not bad. I think it's kind of a reward for getting to the bonus round. However though, if I were forced to change it, then I would go for $250 a word, which is ok, but not making any thrills IMO although it will make it more special to win the jackpot of at least $10,000. Think of it, your partner gave an illegal clue, you get all the other 9 words right, you win $2250 and the jackpot goes up another $5000.
However with this scenario, (front game winnings of $2500 "using my method" plus $2250), that's only $4750...kinda sad don't you think??? On the other hand, $2500 plus $4500 equals, $7000. Which is not bad by today's standards.
$250 would be fine had it been in the late 80s/early 90s. I think $500 is perfect.
Now if I gave the proposal for $1000 a word, that is MMS (without a cure). Kinda like H2, 5th season Bonus game where each key landed you $1000, which was too much.
Talking about focus groups, I would try to make this show as classy as Wheel & Jeopardy or in prime access syndication and market this to the big three networks o&os. It bothers me that the public only wants sexed-up (dit-dit-dit-dit, not a word!) shows just to keep their attention.
You can have a great game show and not water it down with profanity or sexual oriented material.
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If you're worrying about how many points each word is worth, or how much the Password Puzzles are, then you're in the wrong business.
Once you've figured out that the GAME is solid, then you can tweak all those other things like points, and time and what have you. The rest will follow. If the game is no fun, people won't care that you're dumbly giving away $500 a word in Alphabetics, or that the jackpot now stands at $573,000, except maybe for the players.
I think the time that Wheel and Jeopardy were "classy" is long gone, if they ever wore.
(I would be happy to get on Password, and leave the stage that day with $4,750 on the way to my account. Hell, I would be fine winning a hundred bucks.)
In the end, it's silly to quibble over small things like this, especially when the chances that Password will return in any form on something other than a Mensa network, or NPR, is almost nil.
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TLEberle,
You make a great point. The fact that you have a solid game is all that really matters, heck you can play for points and a dishwasher and you have a great game. Even though in MG'98 the top prize was $5000, I still found the show enjoyable....even if someone won only $1000. Money amounts shouldn't matter except if you are making the budget for the show.
Has there been any talks about bringing back Password?
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' date=\'May 12 2005, 10:31 AM\']In the end, it's silly to quibble over small things like this, especially when the chances that Password will return in any form on something other than a Mensa network, or NPR, is almost nil.
[/quote]
And even then, it'd be a tough pitch to the many NPR stations that already air this:
http://www.wgbh.org/radio/saysyou/ (http://\"http://www.wgbh.org/radio/saysyou/\")
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[quote name=\'14gameshows\' date=\'May 12 2005, 06:36 AM\']Puzzles-- First puzzle is worth $500, second is worth $1000, third is worth $1500, and fourth is worth $2000. It takes $2500 to win the game to go to Alphabetics.
End Game (Alphabetics) Jackpot starts off at $10,000 and grows $5000 more each time not won. $500 a word will be offered if you don't get all ten.
[/quote]
Wow. We haven't had a post from someone with NO FREAKIN' CONCEPT OF A PRIZE BUDGET in quite some time.
In other news, the Cashword starts at five large a day and doubles each day it isn't won.
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[quote name=\'14gameshows\' date=\'May 12 2005, 11:59 AM\']I would prefer the $500 a word for the end game. I don't think that it's MMS. I mean 9 words x $500 = $4500 is not bad. I think it's kind of a reward for getting to the bonus round.
[/quote]
So you are giving a "loser" 45% of the top prize? On P+, they got 18%, on Super Password, it could be less than that.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'May 12 2005, 01:06 PM\']
In other news, the Cashword starts at five large a day and doubles each day it isn't won.
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5 large what? Pizzas? Ooohhh, we could get a sponsorship! Little Caesar's Password! Sponsored by Pizza Hut!
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[quote name=\'tvwxman\' date=\'May 12 2005, 01:35 PM\']5 large what? Pizzas? Ooohhh, we could get a sponsorship! Little Caesar's Password! Sponsored by Pizza Hut!
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Papa.... (Murphy's or John's?)
It's worth noting here that I once, after one too many brews, suggested setting Password in a TGI Friday's and calling it "TGI Password," keeping score with the little flip cards they use to plug the drink specials.
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[quote name=\'DrBear\' date=\'May 12 2005, 02:41 PM\']It's worth noting here that I once, after one too many brews, suggested setting Password in a TGI Friday's and calling it "TGI Password," keeping score with the little flip cards they use to plug the drink specials.
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I like TG I've Got a Secret better, myself.
"Do you perform a service?"
"For the right price, I can perform any service, baby."
"Bzzt! Drink! That's two drinks down and eight to go!"
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[quote name=\'JMFabiano\' date=\'May 12 2005, 10:40 AM\']
[quote name=\'whewfan\' date=\'May 12 2005, 04:51 AM\']
Someone mentioned a SP drinking game... let's do that!
SUPER PASSWORD
One drink if
Bert says "shall we?", "moving right along"
Gene Wood whispers the password
Rich Jeffries is announcing
Bert announces he knows the puzzle, one more drink if he writes it down on a piece of paper
Bert says "on the board we have", and "you didn't need..."
[/quote]
Earliest episodes: If in the end game, he describes the letters as the "initials letters of the password." As the show went on, I'd say tap a keg when Bert actually calls the words "passwords."
When he points out the check, "signed by Mark Goodson," during Ca$hword.
Two drinks if
Bert accidentally reveals the password
The puzzleboard screws up in some fashion, one more drink if Tom, the puzzleboard operator, pops up.
Bert accidentally reveals the solution to the puzzle
Three drinks if
Gene appears on camera
The game is so long, the "end game" is not played that day
PASSWORD PLUS
ALLEN LUDDEN
One drink if
Allen gets flustered over a questionable clue
Allen gestures with his arm upon revealing the password
The camera gets a close up of Allen's face (according to Chris C, a must for Ludden)
Allen leans against the podium
Allen mentions Betty White[/quote]
How could you forget:
If...
Allen asks "Have you got it at home?"
Addresses viewers who missed the last program, "If you weren't here last time, where were you?" (and such)
Reads a password from the home viewers
Two drinks if
Allen mentions his stomach pain
Allen sings
Says "Hi Doll"
Three drinks if
Allen loses it over a silly clue
TOM KENNEDY
One drink if
Tom mentions Allen or Betty
Tom says to the contestant "Tell us the (contestant's name) story"
Tom laughs
Tom calls the first password of a game a "$X00 puzzle" or otherwise mixes up the words "password" and "puzzle."
Mentions the complete name of the show in the course of the game(s).
Refers to an illegal clue as a "disqualification"
Newer one: builds up a possible match-winning puzzle ("If you're right/if it is ANSWER, you have won the game..." I remember him doing this for all the possible wins in the 1982 episodes)
Asks the audience to show by applause if they know the answer to the puzzle.
Two drinks if
Tom loses it so badly that he can barely get through the show
Tap a keg if:
Tom reads a password from a home viewer
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Drink yourself blind and with a totalled liver if:
Tom ever introduced Alphabetics by saying, "[NAME], I'd like to introduce you to ten of the most putrid passwords ever to stand between a contestant and his/her money, and HERE...THEY...ARE!" ;-)
And is there anything drinking gameworthy of Bill Cullen's four weeks? Jack Narz's half-an-episode?
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[quote name=\'Clay Zambo\' date=\'May 11 2005, 11:15 PM\']Then, too, there was Burt's "And tomorrow's 'Super Password' will be worth..." even though it was quite possible there'd be another endgame during the same episode.[/quote]
. . . quite possible? With Bert moving the game along?
Two drinks:
Bert insists on being part of something funny that happens spontaneously.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'May 12 2005, 01:06 PM\'][quote name=\'14gameshows\' date=\'May 12 2005, 06:36 AM\']Puzzles-- First puzzle is worth $500, second is worth $1000, third is worth $1500, and fourth is worth $2000. It takes $2500 to win the game to go to Alphabetics.
End Game (Alphabetics) Jackpot starts off at $10,000 and grows $5000 more each time not won. $500 a word will be offered if you don't get all ten.
[/quote]
Wow. We haven't had a post from someone with NO FREAKIN' CONCEPT OF A PRIZE BUDGET in quite some time.
In other news, the Cashword starts at five large a day and doubles each day it isn't won.
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Well, Chris, I've probably come the closest than most of the ones I've seen. Some of these are a bit ridiculous. You might want to scroll back in this thread somewhere near the beginning and dissect mine and see if it's any better. It's not perfect (I don't think there's a perfect Password format), but I thought the scoring would make it more challenging to play. The $20,000 figure (the biggest number quoted) is no different than the current "Feud".
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[quote name=\'sshuffield70\' date=\'May 12 2005, 04:17 PM\']The $20,000 figure (the biggest number quoted) is no different than the current "Feud".
[/quote]
Except that 20K is split five ways.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'May 12 2005, 06:31 PM\'][quote name=\'sshuffield70\' date=\'May 12 2005, 04:17 PM\']The $20,000 figure (the biggest number quoted) is no different than the current "Feud".
[/quote]
Except that 20K is split five ways.
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Well, the 20 can be changed to a more amenable number. I just didn't want to leave it at 5. 10 perhaps?
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[quote name=\'sshuffield70\' date=\'May 12 2005, 06:19 PM\']Well, the 20 can be changed to a more amenable number. I just didn't want to leave it at 5. 10 perhaps?
[/quote]
10K seems reasonable. If it's good enough for Dick Clark in the Pyramid, it's good enough for me. :)
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'May 12 2005, 08:21 PM\'][quote name=\'sshuffield70\' date=\'May 12 2005, 06:19 PM\']Well, the 20 can be changed to a more amenable number. I just didn't want to leave it at 5. 10 perhaps?
[/quote]
10K seems reasonable. If it's good enough for Dick Clark in the Pyramid, it's good enough for me. :)
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Works for me! Was the rest of it any good? (And for the record, the highest score for any run through is 3050.)
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hmmm, the only thing I did with my proposal was multiply SP's money amounts by 5.
As far as the $500 a word for the end game, heck H2 did it with the keys. Capture a square and won $500, although the first bonus prize was $10,000. I do see the point about awarding 45% of the top prize for not getting all ten but getting nine words correct though...$250 to please the multitudes then.
Personally $2500 to win the game is low and reasonable, compared to hmmm, hitting $5000 on Wheel and calling the right letter and there be 6 in the puzzle, that's $30,000 right there. You talk about a prize budget, Wheel..granted it's the no. 1 show in syndication and they have the money, that is one show that gives just too much money.
Think about it, $5000 budgeted for the front game, $10,000 for the End game, let's say $1500 (on average) for the prize in "Prizeword", and maybe an extra puzzle at the end of the show at only $500...that equals on $17,000 for a show. Today's version of Family Feud has a top prize of $20,000. Hmmm, a $3000 difference.
You won't please all. Oh well, enough of the quibbling about prize budgets and MMS, and all this other mess, unless Fremantle has thoughts about reviving this show, we can only wonder.
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For the demands of today's short attention span, how about a PAS prelim, then Password + with one puzzle and an Alphabetics for ten grand. One complete half-hour with no straddling.
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[quote name=\'14gameshows\' date=\'May 12 2005, 08:36 AM\']Puzzles-- First puzzle is worth $500, second is worth $1000, third is worth $1500, and fourth is worth $2000. It takes $2500 to win the game to go to Alphabetics.
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Let's burn some $$$ now.
Here's a concept that would really burn a hole in the network's pocket: Play for 15 minutes, puzzles go up by H2 scoring system (start 1st round at $2000), then play for alphabetics as a multiplier. 1x thru 9x for 1-9 letters right and a whopping 100x for getting em all right. WWTBM, eat your heart out. :)
Actually, a system similar to this could be used but the numbers are way out of whack. H2 scoring (ties could occur often unless points or money would be given for partial puzzles solved), a set time limit "a la WOF" (if a tie, then either a system of whoever has control of the current puzzle wins the game OR a fairer way would be a tiebreaker "Classic" Password worth 1000$ and 10 tries are used. As they play it out, 100$ gets deducted until the password is revealed), and a multiplier system for Alphabetics with a base pot of $100 and multipliers x1-x9 are used if you get 1-9 letters right (0 actually next to impossible would equal nothing and well deserving if anyone would be able to achieve such a feat) and a multiplier of x100 for having all 10 right (make the base pot higher if I'm being a little cheap :) ).
Oh yeah, my numbers are a bit off since the main game could be worth much more than the maximum of the bonus round (since if anyone hits round 5, it would be worth $8000). Taim the $$ so that the rounds would go $500, $500, $1000, $2000, $4000. If anyone can get to puzzle #6 without fluking a few puzzles and with all of today's commercial time, congrats. Start the 1st round at $100 with the H2 scoring system if you want to be cheap.
The changes are radical but sounds like fun. Lots of money to throw around at least :)
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[quote name=\'saussage\' date=\'May 13 2005, 09:32 PM\'][quote name=\'14gameshows\' date=\'May 12 2005, 08:36 AM\']Puzzles-- First puzzle is worth $500, second is worth $1000, third is worth $1500, and fourth is worth $2000. It takes $2500 to win the game to go to Alphabetics.
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Let's burn some $$$ now.
Here's a concept that would really burn a hole in the network's pocket: Play for 15 minutes, puzzles go up by H2 scoring system (start 1st round at $2000), then play for alphabetics as a multiplier. 1x thru 9x for 1-9 letters right and a whopping 100x for getting em all right. WWTBM, eat your heart out. :)
Actually, a system similar to this could be used but the numbers are way out of whack. H2 scoring (ties could occur often unless points or money would be given for partial puzzles solved), a set time limit "a la WOF" (if a tie, then either a system of whoever has control of the current puzzle wins the game OR a fairer way would be a tiebreaker "Classic" Password worth 1000$ and 10 tries are used. As they play it out, 100$ gets deducted until the password is revealed), and a multiplier system for Alphabetics with a base pot of $100 and multipliers x1-x9 are used if you get 1-9 letters right (0 actually next to impossible would equal nothing and well deserving if anyone would be able to achieve such a feat) and a multiplier of x100 for having all 10 right (make the base pot higher if I'm being a little cheap :) ).
Oh yeah, my numbers are a bit off since the main game could be worth much more than the maximum of the bonus round (since if anyone hits round 5, it would be worth $8000). Taim the $$ so that the rounds would go $500, $500, $1000, $2000, $4000. If anyone can get to puzzle #6 without fluking a few puzzles and with all of today's commercial time, congrats. Start the 1st round at $100 with the H2 scoring system if you want to be cheap.
The changes are radical but sounds like fun. Lots of money to throw around at least :)
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I probably should have edited the repost, but I left it intact so I could show you two how absolutely silly it is.
That's why I really like my system. It rewards players who can solve quickly, and makes each puzzle mean something, instead of a throwaway puzzle like P+ and SP tended to do with the first puzzle. I mean I've had games that were like 700-200 as well as the somewhat-famous 3050-400 game from about two years ago (then again, half the points came from one person who got "M&Ms" just from "Mars" on a triple value puzzle.....stupid me.)
Outside of that one incident, I think it would really work.
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[quote name=\'sshuffield70\' date=\'May 13 2005, 10:01 PM\']I probably should have edited the repost, but I left it intact so I could show you two how absolutely silly it is.
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Well if silly means radical change, then it is really really silly :)
I'm trying to think outside the box. I hate rounds that don't mean anything but I also don't like ties. A Classic Password tiebreaker wouldn't be silly as well as the Alphabetics multiplier system. Scoring in an H2 system might be silly because nobody has seen P+ or SP rounds go higher than 500 points/dollars in a round. If a revival is going to be done, the scoring will be in dollars for the rounds and if the winner doesn't at least get $1000 before going to Alphabetics, then I would say that the game would be too cheap by today's standards (although many gameshows playing today still have winnings smaller than this amount before going to the bonus round). Playing for points seem chincy so if you're going to play for $$$, make it worthwhile.
Is the rest silly? Problably, unless you can figure out a way to have the regular rounds about 10-20% of the total cash while the alphabetics winner takes care of the other 80%. Of course you do not want to go to Alphabetics after winning the game and not to be able to win a substantial larger amount.
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[quote name=\'saussage\' date=\'May 13 2005, 07:32 PM\']The changes are radical but sounds like fun. Lots of money to throw around at least :)
[/quote]
You should meet GSWitch. You clearly operate at the same mental level.
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[quote name=\'calliaume\' date=\'May 11 2005, 02:37 PM\'][quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'May 11 2005, 01:47 PM\']How does one explain SP being the longest running Password revamp and its longevity in what was universally considered the toughest time slot in daytime TV?
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After 23 different occupants of the 12 noon slot over 10 years (count 'em!) (http://\"http://www.curtalliaume.com/nbc_day.html\"), it probably occurred to someone they were overthinking the issue, and as long as they had a reasonably good show, with a time-tested format, from a reliable packager, that was just as good an option as any.
I just haven't warmed to Bert's style of hosting the show. I don't think Kennedy was any great shakes either early on, but he had the excuse of a sudden entrance to the job.
Funny thing about Super Password; they went about 3/4 of the way with new technology (chyron graphics and those tiny monitors for the clue givers, but cardboard pieces for the puzzle). Just seems odd.
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I've thought about the antiquated the password board too.
I give the nod to 'Super Password.' Its more of a subjective thing. I recall taping it and watching it after school when it was new.
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[quote name=\'PaulD\' date=\'May 14 2005, 08:38 AM\']
I give the nod to 'Super Password.' Its more of a subjective thing. I recall taping it and watching it after school when it was new.
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Too bad you didn't have KYW-3 from Philly (then NBC, now CBS). They aired SP at 3:30 in the afternoon for a good part of its run. They'd have done your work for you. :)
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'May 14 2005, 05:28 AM\'][quote name=\'saussage\' date=\'May 13 2005, 07:32 PM\']The changes are radical but sounds like fun. Lots of money to throw around at least :)
[/quote]
You should meet GSWitch. You clearly operate at the same mental level.
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Ooh.. that hurt.
But at least I'm not the one that came up with the idea of Card Sharks 01. :)
Change is good sometimes but change may make a game show revival last more than 3 years and appeal to today's game show viewers.
I'm all up for keeping things the same but unless there's some change from previous formats, a mutated P+ meets SP may never see the light of day (although I would like it to be). Let's not start throwing out insults though when people start to talk about game show ideas that "goes against the grain". We can make fun of them though :)
I for one would love a Pyramid rules-style tourney for the Password revival. It would be P+ with a touch of SP and a pinch of creativity (with the help of Pyramid and H2 for rule ideas). That recipe came courtecy of the game show cookbook :)
Are my ideas different? Some are. Do some of my ideas suck? YES! :)
Wanna taste some game show soup? :)
<giant cane pulls me off of the stage>