The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: jalman on August 01, 2003, 01:13:00 AM
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I caught this on the TVBarn Ticker and wanted to share it w/ the GSF because our Matt, our esteemed dicta..er, moderator, and others had such warm memories of the original \"Battle of the Network Stars\":
NBC Village announcement (http://\"http://nbcmv.com/entertainment/program_detail.nbc/battleofthenbcstars.html\")
Here are some pics (http://\"http://nbcmv.com/entertainment/program_photography.nbc/battleofthenbcstars.html\")
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Interesting but not the same in my opinion. It loses something for me if it is just one network against itself. Part of the allure of the original specials was the networks competing against each other.
Thanks for sharing the links!
Tim :-)
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Say it with me:
\"Who?\"
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[quote name=\'SplitSecond\' date=\'Jul 31 2003, 10:42 PM\'] Say it with me:
"Who?" [/quote]
Wow, ain't that the truth. When Lopez and Burns are your two biggest names, you're not casting very well.
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But at least they're going with the Red Team and the Blue Team as a historic reference to the Red and Blue Networks that comprised the east coast operations of NBC in its infancy. These guys sure know their NBC history backwards and forwards.
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Interesting but not the same in my opinion. It loses something for me if it is just one network against itself. Part of the allure of the original specials was the networks competing against each other.
Agreed. I bet Howard Cosell is turning over in his grave.
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Well, \"Blue Team\" and \"Red Team\" notwithstanding, color me disappointed. Surely TWI is not so bereft of talent that this is the best they could come up with. And if this is the best they can do star-wise, then maybe the original Battles were simply a product of their time after all, and today's TV climate really is too different to expect to see Bradley Whitford and Jane Leeves in a Kayak relay.
Still, everything about the press release suggests that the modern keepers of the franchise have absolutely no clue what made the originals such a success. The appeal was in playing up the rivalries between networks (even if it was all a put-on) and making big stars look real. There's no rooting interest when two teams are divided arbitrarily, there are no big stars, and there's nothing \"real\" about a 10,000 foot swing off a cliff and something called \"Mountain Bowling\".
The host of the original was the biggest and best known sports announcer of his day. For the modern version? Yet another Access Hollywood correspondent nobody's heard of. And how hard up must they have been for talent when, in a cast of nine players (why does the blue team have an extra?) one of your \"stars\" is a supporting player from a failed show NBC cancelled LAST year?
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Aug 1 2003, 09:06 AM\'] There's no rooting interest when two teams are divided arbitrarily, there are no big stars, and there's nothing "real" about a 10,000 foot swing off a cliff and something called "Mountain Bowling". [/quote]
Perhaps they should hold a seance, revive the spirit of Milton Berle, and do \"Mountain Jackpot Bowling.\"
Hey, can't be worse than the \"Battle\" sounds already...
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Well, \"Blue Team\" and \"Red Team\" notwithstanding, color me disappointed.
Yeah. I know, we will put them into a gold or silver wrestling outfits. They will compete. However, some muscle fit people will stop them, like pulling them down, tackle them, or joust them. I think there is a referee....
Wait.....never mind....
Charles
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[quote name=\'SplitSecond\' date=\'Jul 31 2003, 11:40 PM\'] But at least they're going with the Red Team and the Blue Team as a historic reference to the Red and Blue Networks that comprised the east coast operations of NBC in its infancy. These guys sure know their NBC history backwards and forwards. [/quote]
Now let's test YOUR (the global YOUR) NBC History IQ....
How did the Red and Blue networks get those designations?
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Aug 1 2003, 10:41 AM\'] [quote name=\'SplitSecond\' date=\'Jul 31 2003, 11:40 PM\'] But at least they're going with the Red Team and the Blue Team as a historic reference to the Red and Blue Networks that comprised the east coast operations of NBC in its infancy. These guys sure know their NBC history backwards and forwards. [/quote]
Now let's test YOUR (the global YOUR) NBC History IQ....
How did the Red and Blue networks get those designations? [/quote]
Doesn't it go back to the days when NBC started off in radio?
IIRC, wasn't NBC Red was the radio operation, and NBC Blue was TV, or something to that effect?
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Aug 1 2003, 11:41 AM\'] [quote name=\'SplitSecond\' date=\'Jul 31 2003, 11:40 PM\'] But at least they're going with the Red Team and the Blue Team as a historic reference to the Red and Blue Networks that comprised the east coast operations of NBC in its infancy. These guys sure know their NBC history backwards and forwards. [/quote]
Now let's test YOUR (the global YOUR) NBC History IQ....
How did the Red and Blue networks get those designations? [/quote]
What do I win, Chris? What DO I WIN? (http://\"http://www.digitaldeliftp.com/LookAround/la_networkspot_nbc.htm\")
Ahem...
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[quote name=\'jalman\' date=\'Aug 1 2003, 11:02 AM\']What do I win, Chris? What DO I WIN? (http://\"http://www.digitaldeliftp.com/LookAround/la_networkspot_nbc.htm\")
Ahem...[/quote]
Damn I was wrong.
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The significant portion, for lazy people:
In fact, NBC operated two networks: NBC Blue, headed by station WJZ, and NBC Red, headed by WEAF. This situation arose, due to NBC then owning two stations in New York (WEAF and WJZ). WEAF and the 'Red' Network became the flagship network and offered most of the established shows--and advertisers, and the 'Blue' Network carried most of the sustaining shows (e.g., shows without regular sponsors). How did they arrive at the names 'Red' and 'Blue'? The felt tip marker pen used to trace the routes of the WJZ-headed stations was blue, and as you may have already guessed, the marker used to trace the WEAF-headed stations was red. This was a confusing situation for everyone but NBC and its sponsors and advertisers, and that was just fine by NBC, thank you.
Man, I fancy myself to be something of a radio historian, and I didn't even know some of that. Good question, and a very nice find by jalman of a perfect link. Jalman, you've \"won\" a game show home game from my extras pile. E-mail me at ottinger@acd.net for the details.
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I don't think Howard Cosell is turning over in his grave -- Roone Arledge probably got him to take on Battle of the Network Stars in a weak (drunken?) moment.
Hey, if they show Rena Sofer in a wet skimpy bathing suit, I'm there. (She's in Coupling this fall, which will take the walk-the-dog spot between Will & Grace and ER.)
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Aug 1 2003, 11:37 AM\']
In fact, NBC operated two networks: NBC Blue, headed by station WJZ, and NBC Red, headed by WEAF. This situation arose, due to NBC then owning two stations in New York (WEAF and WJZ). WEAF and the 'Red' Network became the flagship network and offered most of the established shows--and advertisers, and the 'Blue' Network carried most of the sustaining shows (e.g., shows without regular sponsors). How did they arrive at the names 'Red' and 'Blue'? The felt tip marker pen used to trace the routes of the WJZ-headed stations was blue, and as you may have already guessed, the marker used to trace the WEAF-headed stations was red. This was a confusing situation for everyone but NBC and its sponsors and advertisers, and that was just fine by NBC, thank you.
Man, I fancy myself to be something of a radio historian, and I didn't even know some of that. Good question, and a very nice find by jalman of a perfect link. Jalman, you've \"won\" a game show home game from my extras pile. E-mail me at ottinger@acd.net for the details.[/quote]
WHOA!!! Not so fast!!
A wonderful job of finding a website with the story, but as we all know, not everything on the WWW is true or completely accurate. Despite how old some people think I am, I was not there when the Red and Blue were both operated by NBC (by court decree they \"blew off\" the Blue), or for the beginning of ABC when Sarnoff sold the lesser of his 2 networks to Mr. Noble, the owner of the company that made Lifesavers candy. But here's the story on the naming of the Red and Blue that I've heard on several occasions from different sources. This is the kind of crap I ask old-timers during breaks on the sets:
In the day, programs were distributed to affiliates via telephone lines. As anyone who has seen old telephone termination points can attest, before the current punch-on tool was used, the termination points were blocks of copper screw posts, each with a nut that screwed down to tighten the wires.
AT&T's carefully formatted and supervised practice of the day was for installers to mark and \"protect\" the connections of priority customers whose service should not be interrupted or temporarily shorted by the use of a screwdriver on an adjacent termination post. That protection was provided by placing a small, non-conductive \"cover\" over the priority termination point. It was spiral in shape like a tiny Slinky toy, and it could be screwed down over the nut; it protruded past the end of the screw post for protection. I've seen these termination blocks and these \"covers\" many times at old telco installations in the older buildings in New York. I bet some still exist where the service first enters the building. They also still exist at older telco central office installations.
Because NBC had more than one service on many of these blocks, AT&T denoted one from the other by using \"covers\" of different colors... red and blue!
The only other story I heard was that it was a simple naming differentiation made by NBC. Much like the Ringling Brothers' Circus which STILL uses \"red\" and \"blue\" to differentiate between the two shows that tour simultaneously to different cities. The circus also uses \"red\" to denote the show with their star performers.
Still believe the original posted story? Ask your parents or grandparents when they first saw a felt tipped marker. They didn't exist before the late 1950s, and were not common until well into the 60s ;-)
Randy
tvrandywest.com
P.S. Matt, tell us what I won!
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Well. like any good game show producer, I'm not going to take away the prize just because there was a judging error. Jalman's still won his box game, if he wants it.
But yeah, I guess I spoke too soon. The site is certainly impressive looking and rich with detail. It didn't strike me as the sort of place that would make stuff up. Still, the story does seem to have drifted into lore and legend. Even Randy, with that rich oral history to draw from, had two completely different stories. Googling gives us even more. We've also got a \"Chicken/Egg\" thing going on here. Were the networks named for the lines, pins and covers that marked them, or did the people making those diagrams and marking those posts logically choose to use the identifying colors by which the networks had already been named?
Now I'm curious as to what Chris' original idea was when he asked the question in the first place.
And Randy, I've got the perfect prize for you: MY voice on YOUR answering machine!
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Aug 1 2003, 02:09 PM\']And Randy, I've got the perfect prize for you: MY voice on YOUR answering machine![/quote]
Touche! That's being met wit the same enthusiasm as when I innocently (and not intentionally condescendingly) offered it to you. Can I get the Tuvache perfume instead? It WAS a lot of typing! ;-)
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Aug 1 2003, 12:09 PM\'] Now I'm curious as to what Chris' original idea was when he asked the question in the first place.
[/quote]
Actually, Jalman was close enough to the answer _I_ had learned to be considered a winner...the story that was listed in MY History of Broadcasting text in college was that the colors Red and Blue referred to the colors of ink used to keep the financial numbers separate in NBC's ledger books.
I had honestly never heard of the stories about the routing maps (by the way, the ballpoint pen (much less the felt-tip) hadn't become a cheap source of writing implement until the late 40's, and by then NBC Blue was ABC...) OR Randy's story about the post terminators...I was under the impression that the above was the Definitive Story. (After all, I learned it in COLLEGE! And not only that, my professor for that class was the guy who STARTED the campus radio station at SJSU in 1963, 30 years before! The control room was named for him!)
(And his name wasn't Beverly! Oops...that was snarky. Was that snarky? ;))
So I agree that Jalman should be declared the winner, if for no other reason than his find sparked a most interesting discussion on the topic, and thank Matt for his generous donation of a prize to the effort.
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Having worked as a bookkeeper, I never used red ink on my books (unless we were losing money).
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'Aug 1 2003, 04:23 PM\'] Having worked as a bookkeeper, I never used red ink on my books (unless we were losing money). [/quote]
I thought about that, too, which is another reason I'm not claiming my story as gospel. But at the same time, in 1940, if you need two colors to differentiate between two groups in your books, which two colors is the acountant going to have at hand?
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[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' date=\'Aug 1 2003, 03:26 PM\'] Can I get the Tuvache perfume instead? It WAS a lot of typing! ;-) [/quote]
You know, that perfume will go well with the pantyhose you won as a consolation gift on all those game shows you were on.
Are you planning to dress in drag for any audience warm-up duty? :-)
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[quote name=\'Fedya\' date=\'Aug 1 2003, 10:09 PM\'] You know, that perfume will go well with the pantyhose you won as a consolation gift on all those game shows you were on.
Are you planning to dress in drag for any audience warm-up duty? :-) [/quote]
Only if you ask nicely and buy me dinner ;-p
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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I'll just add an extra layer of confusion here by pointing out that most if not all of the program guides and station listings I've seen from the 1930s don't say \"NBC Red\" and \"NBC Blue\"; instead, they say \"NBC\" and \"Blue.\"
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[quote name=\'trainman\' date=\'Aug 3 2003, 01:29 AM\'] I'll just add an extra layer of confusion here by pointing out that most if not all of the program guides and station listings I've seen from the 1930s don't say "NBC Red" and "NBC Blue"; instead, they say "NBC" and "Blue." [/quote]
Thta's actually not such a confusion. There's no doubt that the Red Network was NBC's primary network, and it doesn't surprise me that some listings would treat it that way. The Blue Network was made up of secondary and \"sustaining\" (unsponsored) programming. That's also the reason that, when it came time to sell off one or the other, NBC chose to sell off the Blue.
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Geez....I'm learning so much from this thread.
ObNBCGameShows: bil kulin wus funi on hat putato. :P
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[quote name=\'PeterMarshallFan\' date=\'Aug 2 2003, 10:19 PM\'] ObNBCGameShows: bil kulin wus funi on hat putato. :P [/quote]
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!! STONE HIM!
;-)
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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!! STONE HIM!
Paging MoreHits4U and his alter egos...
Chuck Donegan (The Comedic \"Chuckie Baby\")