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Just doing some spring rearranging of the junk and I ran across an issue of Variety dated 4/2/75 that listed the Nielsen's all of the first-run shows that played in prime access for Nov. 74. Only shows that played on 10 or more stations were listed.
The results:
1. Lawrence Welk
2. Hee Haw
3. Wild Kingdom
4. TPIR
5. HS
6. TorC (went out of production in mid-season)
7. New Candid Camera
8. TH
9. LMAD
10. NTT
11. Wild World of Animals
12. Untamed World
13. National Geographic
14. $25KP
15. Wait til Your Father Gets Home
16. Animal World
17. TTTT
18. Police Surgeon
19. World At War
20. DC
21. Last of the Wild
22. Celeb Sweeps. (Syndicator Colbert/Rosen; only 13 stations aired it)
23. Concentration
24. J!
25. WML
26. MP
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'Mar 29 2005, 11:18 PM\']Just doing some spring rearranging of the junk and I ran across an issue of Variety dated 4/2/75 that listed the Nielsen's all of the first-run shows that played in prime access for Nov. 74. Only shows that played on 10 or more stations were listed.
*snip*
20. DC
26. MP
[/quote]
My brain must've powered down for the night a smidge early. What's MP?
#20 is Dealer's Choice, in case anybody spent some time thinking about it, like me.
Edit: It just hit me--Masquerade Party. Darn those obscure shows we rarely talk about.
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Wow, I'm surprised at the low ratings that the syndicated J! got back then.
I guess pairing the show with Wheel went a long way. Either that or Alex Trebek appeals more to the masses.
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[quote name=\'FeudDude\' date=\'Mar 29 2005, 11:54 PM\']Wow, I'm surprised at the low ratings that the syndicated J! got back then.
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The big damn lightbulbs on the set scared the children.
Art Fleming's tuxedos scared the pets.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'Mar 29 2005, 08:18 PM\']22. Celeb Sweeps. (Syndicator Colbert/Rosen; only 13 stations aired it)
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I didn't even know this existed until I recently expanded my collection of TV Guides From the Week I Was Born (September 21-27, 1974) with the Los Angeles Metropolitan edition. KABC aired it at 7:30 Thursday nights.
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[quote name=\'Don Howard\' date=\'Mar 29 2005, 11:57 PM\'][quote name=\'FeudDude\' date=\'Mar 29 2005, 11:54 PM\']Wow, I'm surprised at the low ratings that the syndicated J! got back then.
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The big damn lightbulbs on the set scared the children.
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Wheel has 1.5 million of 'em, and it's still the #1 damn show in the country. :-P
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' date=\'Mar 30 2005, 12:56 AM\'][quote name=\'Don Howard\' date=\'Mar 29 2005, 11:57 PM\'][quote name=\'FeudDude\' date=\'Mar 29 2005, 11:54 PM\']Wow, I'm surprised at the low ratings that the syndicated J! got back then.
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The big damn lightbulbs on the set scared the children.
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Wheel has 1.5 million of 'em, and it's still the #1 damn show in the country. :-P
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But did either that J! set or the 1978-81 TJW set have more lights than Wheel does.
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22. Celeb Sweeps. (Syndicator Colbert/Rosen; only 13 stations aired it)
13 stations - no wonder I never saw the nighttime version in my area (arghh...)
How could a show get the go-ahead with only 13 stations? Does anybody know if the 1976 syndie version was seen on more?
Interestingly, I have a bunch of Nevada TVGuides from that time frame, and Ch 10 Sacramento (which was listed in Nevada back then) picked up "Celebrity Sweepstakes" in the summer of 1976, and started running the 1974 shows before the fall '76 episodes were released. (Maybe that was the 14th station to pick up the '74 shows!)
Oh...and the '74 version was also carried by Ch 7 in Boston.
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Mar 30 2005, 08:46 AM\']
22. Celeb Sweeps. (Syndicator Colbert/Rosen; only 13 stations aired it)
13 stations - no wonder I never saw the nighttime version in my area (arghh...)
How could a show get the go-ahead with only 13 stations? Does anybody know if the 1976 syndie version was seen on more?
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There were some shows in the 80s did didn't get too many stations picking them up. It was reported on ATGS that Pitfall was only seen on about a dozen stations in its original run(WLIG on Long Island aired reruns of it in the mid 80s). The original Lingo and Yahtzee didn't exactly get high coverage, either.
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The reason shows got green-lighted with very few stations back then was that barter was the exception, rather than the rule as it is today. Stations paid cash for them and kept all commercial inventory. As Trainman pointed out, KABC had it, as well as WABC and WXYZ Detroit (at that time an ABC O&O.) If WLS and KGO were on board as well, that would be enough to start production. Some of the other games that had low clearances in prime access were DC with 47 stations, WML with 46, Concentration and J! with 37 and Masq. Party with 20 stations. Most cleared were LMAD with 129 markets, TPIR with 124 and HS with 122.
Nowadays, of course, national advertisers have to be on board before a show is declared a firm go, and the show must have commitments from virtually every market in order for the national advertiser to be interested.
In that same issue there was an interesting article about a gentleman named Eugene Jones, who specialized in making documentary films that take years to produce, edit and finish. From the article. "So what does he (Jones) live on in the meantime?.......the riches from "Sale of the Century," a game show he syndicates in 48 markets..."
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'Mar 30 2005, 09:05 AM\']Some of the other games that had low clearances in prime access were DC with 47 stations, WML with 46, Concentration and J! with 37 and Masq. Party with 20 stations. Most cleared were LMAD with 129 markets, TPIR with 124 and HS with 122.
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Didn't syndie WML and Concentration air earlier in the day in some areas? Surely a show with only 30 or 40 stations clearing it wouldn't last as many seasons as those did.
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Didn't syndie WML and Concentration air earlier in the day in some areas? Surely a show with only 30 or 40 stations clearing it wouldn't last as many seasons as those did.
In my area, "Concentration" aired weekdays at 1 p.m.; and "What's My Line" weekdays at 2:30 p.m.
It's surprising to see "Concentration" with such low ratings considering it was only in the second year of a five-year run. Maybe the ratings and station numbers were for prime access only(?)
Also, "TTTT" was aired earlier in some cities as well. In a 1975 TV Guide article, Kitty Carlisle talked about a letter she got that asked why she was always so dressed up at 11 in the morning. She replied by saying in many cities it was seen at 7 at night.
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[quote name=\'FeudDude\' date=\'Mar 29 2005, 11:54 PM\']Wow, I'm surprised at the low ratings that the syndicated J! got back then.
I guess pairing the show with Wheel went a long way. Either that or Alex Trebek appeals more to the masses.
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At the time, people thought that "J!"'s problem in access was that it was--too cerebral. Kids controlled the set at 7:30/6:30 p.m. and were entranced more by the funny costumes on "LMAD" or the blinking "Squares" board or *everything* on "TPIR" than "J!", even with the attempt to jazz up the set for nighttime.
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The reason shows got green-lighted with very few stations back then was that barter was the exception, rather than the rule as it is today.
Barter has nothing to do with it. In the '70s all you needed was a commitment from one network station group -- five stations -- for a "go". Call it one-stop shopping if you will. If we could get, say, the ABC stations to pick up Match Game PM or the NBC stations to pick up nighttime TPIR, production costs were covered. The rest was profit for the production company.
Let's say a week of Match Game cost $120,000. Divide that by six and you get $20,000 per show. Assume there are five stations in a network station group. Divide $20,000 by five and you get $4000. There were 12 30-second avails per show, so each spot had to sell for at least $333 just to break even. If you could get stations from each of the top 10 markets on board you could lower the price to the station group and keep a little more profit.
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Agreed, but I'd be hard-pressed to name even one show in syndication today (even off-network strips) that don't have some kind of national advertising (more properly barter + cash) tied to them.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'Mar 30 2005, 02:39 PM\']Agreed, but I'd be hard-pressed to name even one show in syndication today (even off-network strips) that don't have some kind of national advertising (more properly barter + cash) tied to them.
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That's simply and evolutionary change in the business. Stations like barter because a show arrives partially pre-sold and because their cash outlay is lower. It doesn't get to the question of why a show could "go" with as few as five stations cleared.
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How could a show get the go-ahead with only 13 stations?
Hey, the syndie Marshall HS launched w/(I think) only a half-dozen stations initially signed on just a coupla yrs earlier.
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby")
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[quote name=\'ChuckNet\' date=\'Mar 30 2005, 06:55 PM\']
How could a show get the go-ahead with only 13 stations?
Hey, the syndie Marshall HS launched w/(I think) only a half-dozen stations initially signed on just a coupla yrs earlier.
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby")
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As has been intimated, one sale to the NBC O&O's was enough to launch the show.
One thing that intrigued me was that some of the once a week shows that launched in fall 74 weren't even on network daytime until spring (CS) or summer (NTT) or at all (MP). In the case of 25KP, the daytime counterpart had been cancelled by CBS and picked up by ABC by the time the Cullen version hit the airwaves on the CBS O&Os in the fall. Was there such a thing as a NATPE convention in 74?
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At least that makes sense - Syndie Squares, after all, could just tape a sixth show after the first five; it's a known running property; expenses would be a lot lower than for a new startup. A fewer number of stations could sign on - especially if they're in top-10 markets - for a reasonable chance at success.
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[quote name=\'zachhoran\' date=\'Mar 30 2005, 09:24 AM\']
Didn't syndie WML and Concentration air earlier in the day in some areas? Surely a show with only 30 or 40 stations clearing it wouldn't last as many seasons as those did.
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Some of my old TVG's from 1975 have WML? running on WPVI at 2:30 in the afternoon..."Big Showdown" aired (on a delay, I would presume) at 9:30am instead.
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This survey is for prime access only, so many of the strips would have more stations. There was an attempt by the O&Os and other big market stations to not air strips at 7:30, as it would be seen as violating the "spirit of the rule." NBC would be the first to break with that tradition when they went with a five-night a week "Feud" in Sept 80. Usually in smaller top-50 markets, you'd find a strip at 7 and a checkerboard at 7:30. Of course markets 51-INF were allowed to show whatever they wanted, off-net rerun or not.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'Mar 31 2005, 09:02 AM\']This survey is for prime access only, so many of the strips would have more stations. There was an attempt by the O&Os and other big market stations to not air strips at 7:30, as it would be seen as violating the "spirit of the rule." NBC would be the first to break with that tradition when they went with a five-night a week "Feud" in Sept 80. Usually in smaller top-50 markets, you'd find a strip at 7 and a checkerboard at 7:30. Of course markets 51-INF were allowed to show whatever they wanted, off-net rerun or not.
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That's what WGAL did from 1978 to 1980. They aired TTD at 7, and then a checkerboard from 7:30 to 8. Starting in 1980, they went with an additional newscast at 7, and the big 80's hit "PM Magazine" at 7:30. TTD went to WHP instead. Oddly enough, in the last week of August 1980, the TVG had both 8 (WGAL) *and* 21 (WHP) airing TTD at 7pm. I'm assuming this was an error on TVG's part...I don't think it would have been possible for *both* stations to air the show?
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In many cities, the "checkerboard" shows were also seen on weekends. WIVB Buffalo ran "Treasure Hunt" every Saturday night at 7:30; and during the time they had "Let's Make a Deal", they ran it Sunday nights at 7. This was back when the CBS Sunday schedule started at 7:30.
I have some New York TVGuides from the '70s that list shows like "Break the Bank", nighttime "Price is Right" and "Match Game PM" on Saturday evenings.
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Mar 31 2005, 09:33 AM\']
I have some New York TVGuides from the '70s that list shows like "Break the Bank", nighttime "Price is Right" and "Match Game PM" on Saturday evenings.
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As per a 1981 TVG that I have, MGPM aired up until September 1981 on WABC-7, Tuesday nights at 7:30. So, on Tuesdays, you could see the daily syndie on WCBS-2 at 4:30pm, and three hours later, the weekly syndie on WABC-7 at 7:30. Weird.
The syndie TPiR also aired on WCBS at 7:30pm as late as at least June 1981.
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[quote name=\'aaron sica\' date=\'Mar 31 2005, 09:20 AM\']
That's what WGAL did from 1978 to 1980. They aired TTD at 7, and then a checkerboard from 7:30 to 8. Starting in 1980, they went with an additional newscast at 7, and the big 80's hit "PM Magazine" at 7:30. TTD went to WHP instead. Oddly enough, in the last week of August 1980, the TVG had both 8 (WGAL) *and* 21 (WHP) airing TTD at 7pm. I'm assuming this was an error on TVG's part...I don't think it would have been possible for *both* stations to air the show?
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It's possible both stations could have aired it for a brief period. KYW(at 12:30PM, season one reruns) and WPVI(beginning of season two) in Philly BOTH aired Trebek J! on the week of 9/9/85-9/13/85.
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Since WLS in Chicago stripped an hour of news at 6 p.m. weeknights, "MG PM" aired after the Sunday movie and the local *and* network late news (this was when ABC did a Saturday and Sunday night 15-minute late newscat) and was later joined by the second airing of "Squares." (The first airing ran in "LMAD"'s old Saturday at 6:30 p.m. slot.) The reason I don't give exact times is that back then, "The ABC Sunday Night Movie" frequently ran over 10 p.m. CT.
It wasn't that barter *wasn't* being used in prime access--a lot of the less successful variety and scripted shows like "Stand Up and Cheer" and "Simon Locke/Police Surgeon" were barter, as was the more successful "Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom," Lawrence Welk and "Hee Haw." It's just that for the most part, game shows remained all-cash ("The Movie Game" and "Sports Challenge" were the only barter games in syndication that come to mind). What changed things was the development of "cash plus" in the 80s, I believe created by Paramount for "ET," where the station pays *both* a license fee and holds ad time for the syndicator. That has become SOP for almost every strip syndicated series, with the once-a-week shows almost entirely barter and the only series going all-cash being the "I Love Lucy" and "Honeymooners" reruns at 2 a.m. when the station's not running infomercials.
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[quote name=\'uncamark\' date=\'Mar 31 2005, 10:57 AM\']Since WLS in Chicago stripped an hour of news at 6 p.m. weeknights, "MG PM" aired after the Sunday movie and the local *and* network late news (this was when ABC did a Saturday and Sunday night 15-minute late newscat) and was later joined by the second airing of "Squares." (The first airing ran in "LMAD"'s old Saturday at 6:30 p.m. slot.) The reason I don't give exact times is that back then, "The ABC Sunday Night Movie" frequently ran over 10 p.m. CT.
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It may have started that way, but I distinctly remember a few seasons in which WLS aired MGPM Sundays at 5:30 CT (right before ABC's prime-time lineup kicked in). I do happen to have an anecdote that explains why I remember that, but I'd like people to think that I have some semblance of a life. :)
Doug
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For what it's worth, two from Green Bay...
1. At the time of WML - and I'm going from memory, don't bite if I'm wrong - "As the World Turns" was going to one-hour, 12:30-1:30 CT. Since the station that carried it had a noon-1 one-hour "noon show," it ran WML at 1 p.m. and then ran ATWT at 3.
2. The NBC affil (at the time) ran game shows every night - Tuesdays and Thursdays were "Squares" nights, Match Game was on Mondays, and so on - and ran a promo showing what was on which night with Hot Chocolate's 'Every 1's a Winner" as the music.
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Mar 31 2005, 09:33 AM\']I have some New York TVGuides from the '70s that list shows like "Break the Bank", nighttime "Price is Right" and "Match Game PM" on Saturday evenings.
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When WJW Television 8 in Cleveland moved Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman to 7pm weeknights in early 1977, the Friday at 7pm show (Break The Bank) was kicked down to 11:30pm on Sundays.
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[quote name=\'SRIV94\' date=\'Mar 31 2005, 01:35 PM\'][quote name=\'uncamark\' date=\'Mar 31 2005, 10:57 AM\']Since WLS in Chicago stripped an hour of news at 6 p.m. weeknights, "MG PM" aired after the Sunday movie and the local *and* network late news (this was when ABC did a Saturday and Sunday night 15-minute late newscat) and was later joined by the second airing of "Squares." (The first airing ran in "LMAD"'s old Saturday at 6:30 p.m. slot.) The reason I don't give exact times is that back then, "The ABC Sunday Night Movie" frequently ran over 10 p.m. CT.
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It may have started that way, but I distinctly remember a few seasons in which WLS aired MGPM Sundays at 5:30 CT (right before ABC's prime-time lineup kicked in). I do happen to have an anecdote that explains why I remember that, but I'd like people to think that I have some semblance of a life. :)
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And to complete that station's profile, the prime time version of "High Rollers" ran its one season on WLS on Sundays at 5 p.m.--and "MG PM" might've been at 5:30 p.m.
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Mar 31 2005, 09:33 AM\']I have some New York TVGuides from the '70s that list shows like "Break the Bank", nighttime "Price is Right" and "Match Game PM" on Saturday evenings.
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WNEW (the predecessor to WNYW) ran Break the Bank and The $128,000 Question in very early access Saturday nights (5:30 to 6:30 p.m., I think) in 1976; The New Truth or Consequences replaced Break the Bank a year later.
WNBC ran The Price Is Right at 7:30 on Saturdays for years. WCBS usually countered with the new version of Candid Camera. WABC had The New Dating Game for a year; can't remember what else they ran. Don't think it was MG PM.
Also seem to remember The Cheap Show on Saturday nights at one point.
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[quote name=\'calliaume\' date=\'Apr 1 2005, 10:08 PM\']
WNEW (the predecessor to WNYW) ran Break the Bank and The $128,000 Question in very early access Saturday nights (5:30 to 6:30 p.m., I think) in 1976; The New Truth or Consequences replaced Break the Bank a year later.
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YES! I remember this well...for a game show kid in his (really) early stages, it was the only thing to watch on Saturdays after cartoons....
Didn't they do this years earlier with Dealers Choice as well? I seem to rememeber an early weekend slot for it on Channel 5.
And in 78, does anyone remember Channel 5 airing the new "You Don't Say" on Wednesday nights at 8:30? Wasn't it paired with something else ? I can't remember, but years later upon receiving a copy of the canadian "It's Your Move", I coulda sworn it triggered some long dormant memories....
ms
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[quote name=\'tvwxman\' date=\'Apr 2 2005, 10:36 AM\'][quote name=\'calliaume\' date=\'Apr 1 2005, 10:08 PM\']
WNEW (the predecessor to WNYW) ran Break the Bank and The $128,000 Question in very early access Saturday nights (5:30 to 6:30 p.m., I think) in 1976; The New Truth or Consequences replaced Break the Bank a year later.
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YES! I remember this well...for a game show kid in his (really) early stages, it was the only thing to watch on Saturdays after cartoons....
Didn't they do this years earlier with Dealers Choice as well? I seem to rememeber an early weekend slot for it on Channel 5.
And in 78, does anyone remember Channel 5 airing the new "You Don't Say" on Wednesday nights at 8:30? Wasn't it paired with something else ? I can't remember, but years later upon receiving a copy of the canadian "It's Your Move", I coulda sworn it triggered some long dormant memories....
ms
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In the 78-79 season, YDS was one of a number of shows occassionally on WPIX sometime between 8pm and 10pm. TTD, LMAD reruns, TTTT (Garagiola) Make Me Laugh and Celebrity Charades would also fill the slot on weekdays when not preempted by live sports coverage.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'Apr 2 2005, 02:07 PM\'][quote name=\'tvwxman\' date=\'Apr 2 2005, 10:36 AM\']Didn't they do this years earlier with Dealers Choice as well? I seem to rememeber an early weekend slot for it on Channel 5.
And in 78, does anyone remember Channel 5 airing the new "You Don't Say" on Wednesday nights at 8:30? Wasn't it paired with something else ? I can't remember, but years later upon receiving a copy of the canadian "It's Your Move", I coulda sworn it triggered some long dormant memories....
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In the 78-79 season, YDS was one of a number of shows occassionally on WPIX sometime between 8pm and 10pm. TTD, LMAD reruns, TTTT (Garagiola) Make Me Laugh and Celebrity Charades would also fill the slot on weekdays when not preempted by live sports coverage.
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I remember You Don't Say on WPIX at 8:30 weeknights for a short time, as well as Make Me Laugh at 11 p.m. (in an attempt to cut down on the number of Odd Couple reruns. It's possible TTD ran at 8 p.m. weeknights as well. I don't remember either LMaD or TTTT (which would also have been reruns at that point), but that doesn't mean they didn't happen. (I do remember WPIX having TTTT sometime around 1974-75, with the show going over to WCBS for the rest of the run... but I think TTTT ran on all six commercial UHF stations in New York at one time or another.
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[quote name=\'calliaume\' date=\'Apr 2 2005, 07:31 PM\']I remember You Don't Say on WPIX at 8:30 weeknights for a short time, as well as Make Me Laugh at 11 p.m. (in an attempt to cut down on the number of Odd Couple reruns. It's possible TTD ran at 8 p.m. weeknights as well. I don't remember either LMaD or TTTT (which would also have been reruns at that point), but that doesn't mean they didn't happen. (I do remember WPIX having TTTT sometime around 1974-75, with the show going over to WCBS for the rest of the run... but I think TTTT ran on all six commercial UHF stations in New York at one time or another.
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Think you meant "VHF"--Other than WLNY, the front channels for pay TV or the shopping channels, there wasn't an English-language commercial station in New York until Guiliani sold WNYC to the Dow Jones/Cablevision combine and it became WBIS (which was later sold to Paxson--it's now a Pax station, the exact call letters of which escape me).
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I have some New York TVGuides from the '70s that list shows like "Break the Bank", nighttime "Price is Right" and "Match Game PM" on Saturday evenings.
$128K Question was seen on Sat nights, as well...in fact, in aired back-to-back from 5:30-6:30 w/BtB on WNEW (Ch. 5, now WNYW)...when BtB tanked, $128K moved up to 6 the following season.
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby")