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I know that in the earlier days of TV game shows, audiences were the standard John & Jane Doe coming in town for a vacation, or locals who just wanted to see their TV people in persoon. They would have to write in for tickets, and perhaps they would get in.
In more recent years, some game shows, mostly the ones taped away from CBSTV City or NBC Burbank, get the majority of their audiences by paying them, or by paying local groups or organizations to come to the studio and be their audiences.
Some questions I had on this practice of 'pay to watch':
1) When did this practice first start? (I don't think that Tattletales would be in the same category as it was a show where the audience were more or less, the actual 'contestants".
2) What do groups or individuals get paid for sitting through a taping session?
3) Besides budgetary reasons, is their any other reasons why some shows will pay for a full audience, while others just take the handful of people off the street who genuinely want to see the show and 'sweeten' their reactions, or those others who simply use no audience and just put in a 100% canned audience?
4) How do people like us get involved in this pay to watch deal if we came out in LA for vacation and sit through a few shows?
Just Curious.
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"Randy West! Paging Randy West!"
Randy will have all the answers for you on this one. So could a few others we have on board, but Randy has worked with these "professional" audience members a lot. My impression is that tourists don't really have an inside track on getting the "paid" gig, and in fact an audience might consist of both unpaid tourists and paid seat fillers. There are many reasons why a producer might want a larger live audience, but one would obviously be when the set of the show (Weakest Link, for example) shows you the audience.
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I think it started when the taping time for a half-hour show went from 22 minutes to 5 hours. The average person probably doesn't want to sit through all the stop downs, retakes, recreations, equip. failures, etc. without some sort of compensation.
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For ESPN's Two Minute Drill, they had both paid and unpaid audience members. The paid ones were unemployed actors (from the actor's union). They were paid around $20/day. Syndicated Millionaire also uses paid audience members, but I don't know how many they need since a lot of people sit in the audience just to audition for the show (they tell you the results of the contestant test after the taping is over).
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Thanks for the "shout out" Matt. Yes, I know more about this practice than I care to.
The paid audience phenomenon started as early as the early 1980s with special consideration given to groups of 20-30 or more. Besides contributing to a group's fund-raising efforts (Little League uniforms, etc), the production company would sometimes pay for the bus. The fact is a large organized group is great; once confirmed, they are sure to be there, and they have their own wranglers to babysit their needs. If the production company pays for the bus they are unlikely to be leaving early!
From a warm-up performer's standpoint, these groups were and are golden. They are already friends, and already "loose" and responsive. A brief talk with one of their wranglers could give you a ton of material based on the big-mouth, funny members of the group, and the nature and politics of the group. Guaranteed ice-breakers and laughs.
Paid audiences became standard practice in the early 1990s. I think my first encounter was when I filled-in on "Pictionary". My personal take on the phenomenon is that the increasing length of tapings and marginal warm-up entertainers who fail to keep audiences entertained through the longer sessions are significant but secondary factors that keep local civilians from lusting after TV tickets.
The dirty little secret that even TPiR with its little or no stop-down time, which only expects an audience to sit for a little over an hour, and gives them about a 1 in 30 chance of appearing on TV and winning something has used paid audience members from time to time for a couple of decades weakens that argument. I think the real reason is that the quantity and quality of TV production just stopped making the experience special. Watch GSN reruns of shows from the 50s - people dressed-up with ties and pearls to visit a TV show. By the 80s we were lucky if people bathed!
Dozens of cable channels and endless infomercials created a wave of production; we burned-out people with low budget, less show-bizzy, start-and-stop tapings, and overall less "special" experiences. Even the proliferation of home videocameras and PC editing also ended some of the mystery and magic.
These days, on any given tape date there are usually far more seats that need to be filled than tourists interested in watching a show tape. Besides, 300 tourists, each with a ticket, doesn't mean you can count on even half an audience. Paid audience members show up, on time, dressed as you request, and stay until the end.
Paid audiences serve other purposes. Entertainment shows with professional performers such as sitcoms and the almost dead genre of variety NEED a full and reacting crowd for the benefit of the performers. Sweetening audience response is costly when done convincingly; some producers would rather spend that money up front and minimize the need for sweetening. And as Matt indicates, some shows such as Weakest Link take a lot of audience reaction shots or feature the audience prominently.
Having an audience in the studio has always been an investment that is often an expensive proposition. First and foremost, insurance rates are higher, and most local municipalities require fire marshall(s) to be present with a live audience. Pages need to be present, and of course a sparkling warm-up personality needs to be hired. Nowadays more than ever, security guards and/or outside security companies complete with metal detectors and wands are needed. The networks and studios (Paramount, etc.) have always employed audience recruiters to generate interest and distribute tickets at tourist spots such as the Farmers' Market, the Universal Tour and Grauman's (Mann's) Chinese Theater. Even printing tickets and fulfilling mailed ticket requests carry costs. With an outside company fetching and babysitting audiences some of these direct expenses disappear.
The "paid audience" business is now big business with several companies well established and profitable. There is little use for tourists; these companies utilize locals who can work long hours, sometimes on short notice. There is a reasonably high turnover rate among the workers and the majority of faces keep changing. The backdoor entree to the coveted world of showbiz attracts a great many flakes who are quickly weeded-out by virtue of their irresponsibility or inappropriateness. A few "jerks" on the set more than a couple of times can cost the audience company the lucrative contract.
The long-standing, valued workers are usually entertainment professionals who are either on their way up or their way down in acting careers. I've worked with paid audience members who I now see with minor roles on WB or UPN sitcoms. One of my favorite things about working with these folks is discovering the few gems in their midst... the composers (remember the 60s hit "Walk Away Renee"?), the elderly character actors with familiar faces, the proud up-and-comer who is smiling ear-to-ear because of his recent 3 days on a film as "Juror #4", etc.. Mark Walberg worked for years as one of the premier warm-up performers. Only recently we reminisced about some of our memorable favorites from among the paid audience ranks. Some are a pleasure to see when you step out on stage.
Out of respect for the operators of these businesses I'll remain vague about some of the details. The job pays near minimum wage and may include a lunch allowance. The production company pays enough above minimum wage by the hour for each employee to allow for the supervision, booking, overhead and profit of these employers.
The good audience companies earn their repeat business by recruiting and carefully supervising cooperative employees with professional demeanors. I've seen them magically deliver 100 people on an hour's notice. Others try and die by virtue of the unphotogenic, uncooperative and language-impaired people they deliver to a workplace where time is big money.
Paid audiences are a big part of the business that is, for good or bad, here to stay.
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' date=\'Feb 14 2005, 01:25 PM\'][quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Feb 14 2005, 08:58 AM\']"Randy West! Paging Randy West!"
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The paid audience phenomenon started as early as the early 1980s with special consideration given to groups of 20-30 or more. Besides contributing to a group's fund-raising efforts (Little League uniforms, etc), the production company would sometimes pay for the bus. The fact is, a large organized group is great; once confirmed, they are sure to be there, and they have their own wranglers to babysit their needs. If the production company pays for the bus they are unlikely to be leaving early!
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I remember from watching Scrabble, that Chuck would often mention that students from a local (junior) high school was in the audience, followed by a mix of cheers from the students and McKenzie. Would this be an example, or is this just simple a field trip to the NBC studios.
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' date=\'Feb 14 2005, 10:38 AM\']I remember from watching Scrabble, that Chuck would often mention that students from a local (junior) high school was in the audience, followed by a mix of cheers from the students and McKenzie. Would this be an example, or is this just simple a field trip to the NBC studios.
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It's likely some "promotional consideration" was provided. Even if just a class outing I bet the group was given a free NBC tour in exchange for filling the seats.
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' date=\'Feb 14 2005, 11:25 AM\']The backdoor entree to the coveted world of showbiz attracts a great many flakes who are quickly weeded-out by virtue of their irresponsibility or inappropriateness.
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Is this a gentle way of saying I should leave my "Who Farted?" T-Shirt at home next time I go to a taping? :)
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Feb 14 2005, 01:09 PM\'][quote name=\'tvrandywest\' date=\'Feb 14 2005, 11:25 AM\']The backdoor entree to the coveted world of showbiz attracts a great many flakes who are quickly weeded-out by virtue of their irresponsibility or inappropriateness.
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Is this a gentle way of saying I should leave my "Who Farted?" T-Shirt at home next time I go to a taping? :)
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That would be welcome - it would make my warm-up job easier. Dude, I wish I could tell you what some of the whacked wanna-be's have attempted to do once on the premises!
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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Interesting... While I don't have nearly the experience working with paid audiences that Randy has, my experiences with them haven't left me with exactly the same impression.
If you say "paid audience" to me, the first thing I'll think of is a group of people who don't care about the show that they're at and therefore aren't all that receptive to instructions such as "stay in a single file line" or "you cannot leave the studio once the taping has begun." Getting them to follow directions is a chore, and they're a constant source of stress when one of them leaves their seat right before the next act is about to begin, causing the show's audience wranglers to scramble to fill the seat as quickly as possible.
To be fair, only a handful of paid audience members are like this at any given taping. And I have seen many regulars who were nice and likeable (or at the very least, professionally performed the job for which they had been hired). But it's those few bad apples that spoil the bunch, and I've already vowed that if I ever run my own show, the only audience in attendance will be the ones who actually want to be there -- even if I have to heavily rely on the canned applause.
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Scott Robinson
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But Scott, as Randy says, if an audience provider consistantly keeps bringing you people like that who don't follow basic instructions and make your job harder, that audience provider doesn't stay in business long. I do see your point about just being there for the dough and not caring about the game, but the majority of these people consider themselves "actors" and ought to be willing to turn it on for the camera when the time is right.
I saw Randy working a (mostly paid) Weakest Link audience once from a distance (I was on the other side of the set outside of camera range). I also saw an unsold pilot in a room of paid audience members where the floor director was basically doing double-duty as warm-up and clearly wasn't equipped for it. Even with an audience that's paid to be there, and presumably willing to give you the reactions you want, it's amazing to see the difference that a decent warm-up guy can make.
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[quote name=\'MSTieScott\' date=\'Feb 14 2005, 01:32 PM\']Interesting... While I don't have nearly the experience working with paid audiences that Randy has, my experiences with them haven't left me with exactly the same impression.
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Thanks for the dialogue, Scott. I think our opinions are more in sync than you think.
If you say "paid audience" to me, the first thing I'll think of is a group of people who don't care about the show that they're at and therefore aren't all that receptive to instructions such as "stay in a single file line" or "you cannot leave the studio once the taping has begun." Getting them to follow directions is a chore, and they're a constant source of stress when one of them leaves their seat right before the next act is about to begin, causing the show's audience wranglers to scramble to fill the seat as quickly as possible.
You are right. And nobody will ever be more attentive to instructions than those for whom a visit to the studio is a special event... especially those at TPiR. Working with those folks can easily spoil a page, wrangler, or performer with their cooperative nature and positive energy.
With all due respect, the hired hands have heard those "single file" instructions many times. And as some view themselves as "show biz professionals" they can be downright rude when given the generic directions. Factor in that many are saving their best behavior for when they are "performing" or for when in sight of someone who they believe can enhance their lot in show biz. We agree that many don't represent themselves or their employers well. Those are the ones who are weeded out rather quickly. I think you'll agree that some are wonderfully interesting and charming people; I've enjoyed talking with some really cool folks who are doing that paid audience work. The vast majority are just trying to pay the rent and will do as told without much attitude. The secret I found to gaining the cooperation of the less motivated: treating them like the fellow "show biz professionals" they perceive themselves to be. "We're all here because we all have our little part of the big picture that we're experts at performing. Help me with mine, and I'll help you with yours".
To be fair, only a handful of paid audience members are like this at any given taping. And I have seen many regulars who were nice and likeable (or at the very least, professionally performed the job for which they had been hired). But it's those few bad apples that spoil the bunch, and I've already vowed that if I ever run my own show, the only audience in attendance will be the ones who actually want to be there -- even if I have to heavily rely on the canned applause.
As I've said to you before, I'm proud of you for choosing a career, and taking the action to get in the door. You did it quickly and professionally. I'm glad you're now raising your sights to a possible career as a producer. Should I send my resume?
Continued success, Scott!
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' date=\'Feb 14 2005, 01:25 PM\']The paid audience phenomenon started as early as the early 1980s with special consideration given to groups of 20-30 or more.
<MAJOR SNIPPAGE>
Paid audiences are a big part of the business that is, for good or bad, here to stay.
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Randy, that was a very good thesis paper! I thank you for your input, as I did learn a lot about the topic of paid audiences.
So with that in mind, I will issue you an "A" for your paper, which will give you the necessary final grade to obtain that Masters Degree in Game Show Theology. As soon as I see Sally Struthers at the corner Krispy Kreme, I will have her sign your genuine imitation sheepskin and have it mailed out to you within the next few weeks.
Now that you have completed that degree, can we interest you in another Learn-From-Home degree from the ones scrolling across your TV screen right now? ;-p
Seriously, Randy, thanks again for your valuable insights!
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Thanks for replying, Randy-- that was very informative and interesting.
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[quote name=\'TimK2003\' date=\'Feb 14 2005, 04:11 PM\']... As soon as I see Sally Struthers at the corner Krispy Kreme, I will have her sign your genuine imitation sheepskin...
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I'm happy to hear Sally didn't eat the skin! BTW, was the sheep spayed or neutered?
Sampling your e-radio station. Great music selection!
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' date=\'Feb 14 2005, 10:38 AM\']I remember from watching Scrabble, that Chuck would often mention that students from a local (junior) high school was in the audience, followed by a mix of cheers from the students and McKenzie. Would this be an example, or is this just simple a field trip to the NBC studios.
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The same thing happened on CBC's Smart Ask.
School classes were invited to fill the audiences in exchange for tours of the CBC's Toronto studios.
From my expericnes, though, high school classes did much better - as the middle-school classes tended to have problems keeping the answers to themselves...
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[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' date=\'Feb 14 2005, 01:25 PM\']Paid audiences became standard practice in the early 1990s.
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I've been wondering for the last 14 and a half years how TTD '90 actually pulled off getting audiences to sit through numerous grueling tapings. :-D
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[quote name=\'Johnissoevil\' date=\'Feb 15 2005, 06:48 AM\'][quote name=\'tvrandywest\' date=\'Feb 14 2005, 01:25 PM\']Paid audiences became standard practice in the early 1990s.
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I've been wondering for the last 14 and a half years how TTD '90 actually pulled off getting audiences to sit through numerous grueling tapings. :-D
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Or the "country" version of Pyramid. (Or would that be "rock n' roll?")
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You know...(While shaking my head and grinning in pure awe)
I come here and I do a lot of reading....a LOT of reading...to increase my trivial knowledge of TV and game shows in general (Hey, it's a hobby and it keeps me out of trouble).
It ALWAYS amazes me at how much a complete schmuck like me can learn about how things work in TV by reading Randy's posts.
I hope this isn't taken as an insult, because I mean this in the most sincere and complementary way...To me, Randy West is the Game Show version of Mr. Wizard (You know, the science guy). If Randy were to write a book tomorrow with all the stories, facts, and anecdotes I've read here , I'd buy it in a heartbeat!
I bow to your superior knowledge, sir!
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If Randy were to write a book tomorrow with all the stories, facts, and anecdotes I've read here , I'd buy it in a heartbeat!
Thanks!!
G, if only I culd reed n rite I culb b ritch! ;-p
With all that said about paid audiences, I was reminded this past weekend that, with the possible exception of some prostitutes, you can't buy a totally believable and totally fulfilling faked interpersonal connection. There is still nothing better than the magic in the air when folks from middle America who have never been in a studio before are professionally escorted to their seats by a page in a uniform, their eyes opened wide and their hearts and minds ready for a fun and special experience that they can tell their friends about. Then you step out, see the anticipatory smiles on their faces, and get your first laugh with a warm-up line that's over a quarter century old that you borrowed from the warm-up guy that first made you laugh on your own first visit to a taping. For me, there is no better feeling on the planet.
And among the people in the audience Saturday was a guy who totally understood all of that. There, smiling ear to ear and high-fiving me when I reached the back rows handing out candy, sat one of the nicest of the hired audience pros who's been on the circuit for at least a decade. With a laugh, in a brief moment, we shared so much about how time marches on but some things never change!
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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IWith all that said about paid audiences, I was reminded this past weekend that, with the possible exception of some prostitutes, you can't buy a totally believable and totally fulfilling faked interpersonal connection.
Funny, I was also reminded of that this weekend.
Only I wasn't in any TV audiences....
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There is still nothing better than the magic in the air when folks from middle America who have never been in a studio before are professionally escorted to their seats by a page in a uniform, their eyes opened wide and their hearts and minds ready for a fun and special experience that they can tell their friends about.
I don't work with audiences but I'll bet there is one line that gives these people away:
"IT LOOKS MUCH BIGGER ON TELEVISION."
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It is my theory that TV shows have used paid laughers since the beginning of time, a technique I suspect was brought over from radio. Watch any episode of I Love Lucy and you hear the same person howling every time there is a major sight gag. Randy, what can you tell us about this?
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[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Mar 28 2005, 03:57 PM\']Randy, what can you tell us about this?
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Only that it wasn't me! I'm not THAT old!!!
Paid audience vs paid laughers. That's a whole other thread for another day. Briefly, the latter is a little secret ingredient that was used on the last 3 seasons of "The Nanny" and a couple of other shows at the time. Similar to a looping or ADR session for a film, I was among eight looping artists paid to laugh on set while Fran Drescher and the cast pre-taped scenes from the show, usually the day before the audience taping. We helped the performers with their comedy timing, and gave the post production folks a guide to their sweetening.
These scenes were not performed in front of the live audience for one of a couple of logistical reasons, such as being shot on location outdoors, or being way too involved to stage live and shoot in real time (like her wedding episode, the scene when she falls out of the Maid of The Mist boat at Niagara Falls (my shoes are still wet), the hurricane scene on that tropic island, etc. etc.).
As to Lucy; somebody still has a lotta 'spainin' to do!
Listen to any old Milton Berle show and you can't miss the woman cackling. It's Miltie's mother. The BIG Berle says his mom came to every performance and would howl with laughter while elbowing the adjacent audience members to also laugh.
Listen to many of the game shows announced by Gene Wood and you can hear him clear as day going "aahhhh" or something similar to lead the audience's reactions.
A few other thoughts. Lucy was actually funny, and it was a massive hit. There'd be little reason to hire anyone to fill seats or to laugh. Unlike today when the audience is miked in stereo with as many as 20 mikes used for even coverage, audience shows at the time of Lucy only a used one, two or three mikes to cover the audience. One loud cackler anyplace close to a mike and they become very prominent in the ambient mix. Are you sure it's the same hysterical audience member on all those episodes you refer to?
As to the Lucy mystery, was it a relative or friend of a cast member at all those Lucy filmings? Was it a Desilu staffer? Or was it a young Gene Wood?!
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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the scene when she falls out of the Maid of The Mist boat at Niagara Falls (my shoes are still wet)
You were in Niagara Falls? That's only a couple of hours away... I would have bought you a drink, eh? ;P
Ryan :)
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One loud cackler anyplace close to a mike and they become very prominent in the ambient mix. Are you sure it's the same hysterical audience member on all those episodes you refer to?
As to the Lucy mystery, was it a relative or friend of a cast member at all those Lucy filmings? Was it a Desilu staffer? Or was it a young Gene Wood?!
It's a theory based more on observation and deduction than insider knowledge. You're a producer doing a live radio show, or a TV show live-to-film or live-to-tape. There is a big sight gag -- say it's Lucy staggering down steps in a giant headdress. You need a predictable, reliable, guaranteed audience reaction. One way to do it is to plant, say, three to six laughers in the audience near microphones, whom you know will react uproariously. Call it "laff insurance" if you will. It seems to me I always hear the same woman howling the same howl on I Love Lucy.
I seem to recall an article in TV Guide or somewhere, years and years ago, describing this basic technique as it was applied to the Tonight show.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Mar 28 2005, 07:26 PM\']... It's a theory based more on observation and deduction than insider knowledge...
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I've never heard anything about it, but your theory makes more sense than the single bullet theory.
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Mar 28 2005, 06:57 PM\']It is my theory that TV shows have used paid laughers since the beginning of time, a technique I suspect was brought over from radio. Watch any episode of I Love Lucy and you hear the same person howling every time there is a major sight gag. Randy, what can you tell us about this?
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Look to see if Desi's in the scene. If he's not in the scene, he was usually in the front row of the audience, laughing uproariously. Or so I've heard. And it seems to me that almost all of the show's big sight gigs were never with Ricky in the same room as Lucy.
(In "Weird Al" Yankovic's "Ricky," a parody of Toni Basil's "Mickey" [with voice actress Tress MacNeille playing Lucy to Al's Ricky] he even ends the song with a Desi-ish laugh.)
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Look to see if Desi's in the scene. If he's not in the scene, he was usually in the front row of the audience, laughing uproariously. Or so I've heard.
Desi is plainly audible in many episodes.
And it seems to me that almost all of the show's big sight gigs were never with Ricky in the same room as Lucy.
I'm not THAT big a fan of the show, but he was in the scene where Lucy sets her putty nose on fire.
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To put all this to rest:
Yes, you can often hear Desi on the I Love Lucy audience track, but the most prominent laugh was indeed a relative, namely, DeDe Ball, Lucy's mother, who attended every taping of Lucy's various shows. She's also the one heard to utter "uh-oh" when Lucy gets one of her bright ideas.
Apparently, as Uncle Miltie and Lucy found out, mothers are their children's biggest fans. Who would doubt it?