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I thought it would be interesting to see just how many game shows were on network daytime television over the years. I looked at old TV Guide listings, using each year's FALL PREVIEW issue, to determine how many games each network was airing every year at that time. Note: my issues come from different places and in some years (especially in the '50s and '60s) the network game might not have been listed in that edition, but at least it will give us a good idea:
Year-----ABC-----CBS-----NBC
1955-------0--------4--------2
1956-------0--------2--------3
1957-------0--------3--------6
1958-------1--------4--------9
1959-------1--------3--------9
Significant debuts of the '50s: "Price is Right" ('56); "To Tell the Truth" ('56); "Truth or Consquences" ('56); "Concentration" ('58); "Play Your Hunch" ('58)
1960-------3--------0--------7
1961-------4--------4--------6
1962-------5--------2--------7
1963-------4--------2--------8
1964-------4--------2--------8
1965-------0--------2--------8
1966-------3--------2--------8
1967-------6--------2--------9
1968-------4--------0--------9
1969-------4--------0--------9
Significant debuts of the '60s: "Password" ('61); "Match Game" ('62); "You Don't Say" ('63); "Let's Make a Deal" ('63); "Jeopardy" ('64); "Dating Game" ('65); "Newlywed Game" ('66); "Hollywood Squares" ('66)
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Year-----ABC-----CBS-----NBC
1970-------3--------0--------5
1971-------4--------0--------6
1972-------5--------3--------6
1973-------4--------5--------6
1974-------5--------6--------7
1975-------5--------6--------6
1976-------3--------4--------5
1977-------2--------3--------5
1978-------2--------2--------4
1979-------2--------2--------6
Significant debuts of the '70s: "Joker's Wild" ('72); "New Price is Right" ('72); "Gambit" ('72); "$10,000 Pyramid" ('73); "Match Game" ('73); "Wheel of Fortune" ('75); "Family Feud" ('76); "Gong Show" ('76)
1980-------1--------1--------3
1981-------1--------1--------5
1982-------1--------1--------3
1983-------1--------3--------4
1984-------2--------4--------4
1985-------1--------4--------4
1986-------1--------4--------4
1987-------0--------3--------6
1988-------0--------3--------6
1989-------0--------3--------4
Significant debuts of the '80s: "$25,000 Pyramid" ('82); "Press Your Luck" ('83); "Sale of the Century" ('83); "Super Password" ('84); "Classic Concentration" ('87); "Win Lose or Draw" ('87)
-more-
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-cont'd-
Year-----ABC-----CBS-----NBC
1990-------1--------3--------3
1991-------0--------2--------2
1992-------0--------2--------1
1993-------0--------1--------2
1994-------0--------1--------0
1995-------0--------1--------0
1996-------0--------1--------0
1997-------0--------1--------0
1998-------0--------1--------0
1999-------0--------1--------0
Significant debuts of the '90s: "Match Game" ('90); "To Tell the Truth" ('90); "Caesar's Challenge" ('93)
2000-------0--------1--------0
2001-------0--------1--------0
2002-------0--------1--------0
2003-------0--------1--------0
2004-------0--------1--------0
Significant debuts of the '00s: -none-
Even though CBS is currently the only network airing a game show in daytime, over the years NBC has probably been kinder to us fans in terms of the number of shows they've aired.
Anyway, I hope you've found this at least a little bit interesting...
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I think you can trace the end of game shows in network daytime to all the short lived game shows in the '80's.
Shows that ran less than a year:
Battlestars
Hit Man
Just Men
The New Battlestars
MG/HS Hour
Hot Potato
Trivia Trap
All-Star Blitz
Time Machine
Your Number's Up
Double Talk
Bargain Hunters
Blackout
Blockbusters '87
Wordplay
Now You See It
And even several others, like Child's Play, Las Vegas Gambit, Fantasy, Blockbusters (although that was canceled to save Texas, a soap, it was supposedly doing about an 18 share), and Dream House managed to last not much more than a year. I think these shows not getting enough chance to resonate with audiences (although it can be argued that many of these shows sucked; and I won't disagree) contributed to the daytime demise, albeit it if you look at most of them, they either were slotted at noon or against TPIR.
Tyshaun
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[quote name=\'tyshaun1\' date=\'Oct 28 2004, 09:00 AM\']I think you can trace the end of game shows in network daytime to all the short lived game shows in the '80's.
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I'm not sure I completely buy it--since plenty of short-lived games in the 1970s didn't kill off the genre the following decade (and as exhaustive as your list was, Tyshaun, I could probably come up with a just-as-exhaustive list from the 1970s [you got a couple of hours? ;-)]).
I just think it was more the evolution to being a more-than-three-channel universe that's as responsible as anything.
As an aside, I vaguely remember FANTASY as a whole (I do recall some "new talent segments" and one Paul Lynde impressionist, for which he was given a proper Mother McKenzie laugh). But is it really fair to call FANTASY a game show (not trying to stir up trouble or start another one of those debates, mind you, but I don't recall much of a competition aspect--unless someone can help me fill in the blanks a little)?
Doug
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[quote name=\'SRIV94\' date=\'Oct 28 2004, 11:46 AM\'][quote name=\'tyshaun1\' date=\'Oct 28 2004, 09:00 AM\']I think you can trace the end of game shows in network daytime to all the short lived game shows in the '80's.
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I'm not sure I completely buy it--since plenty of short-lived games in the 1970s didn't kill off the genre the following decade (and as exhaustive as your list was, Tyshaun, I could probably come up with a just-as-exhaustive list from the 1970s [you got a couple of hours? ;-)]).
I just think it was more the evolution to being a more-than-three-channel universe that's as responsible as anything.
As an aside, I vaguely remember FANTASY as a whole (I do recall some "new talent segments" and one Paul Lynde impressionist, for which he was given a proper Mother McKenzie laugh). But is it really fair to call FANTASY a game show (not trying to stir up trouble or start another one of those debates, mind you, but I don't recall much of a competition aspect--unless someone can help me fill in the blanks a little)?
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More of a variety show with game and competition elements (and of course, stuff similar to the "agony shows" of the 50s). Obviously, close enough for the Sony cataloguers trying to figure out what should be considered potential GSN library material.
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One thing I've wondered...was Blockbusters '87 even intended to last longer than it did? I thought it was meant to be a placeholder until Classic Concentration was ready.
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[quote name=\'tyshaun1\' date=\'Oct 28 2004, 09:00 AM\']I think you can trace the end of game shows in network daytime to all the short lived game shows in the '80's.
And even several others, like Child's Play, Las Vegas Gambit, Fantasy, Blockbusters (although that was canceled to save Texas, a soap, it was supposedly doing about an 18 share), and Dream House managed to last not much more than a year. I think these shows not getting enough chance to resonate with audiences (although it can be argued that many of these shows sucked; and I won't disagree) contributed to the daytime demise, albeit it if you look at most of them, they either were slotted at noon or against TPIR.
Tyshaun
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I would say that most of them did suck, and that's what contribute to the daytime demise. But mainly, it's that there are fewer and fewer "housewives" around to watch. The housewives who are now working would--rash generalization here--be the smarter ones, the ones who would enjoy trivia and word games. "TPIR" works with anybody--that's why it's still on. Most of the failures in the '80s weren't that kind of game.
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[quote name=\'TV Favorites\' date=\'Oct 28 2004, 12:24 PM\']One thing I've wondered...was Blockbusters '87 even intended to last longer than it did? I thought it was meant to be a placeholder until Classic Concentration was ready.
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I, for one, think it was intended to last. I would think it would take just as long to mount one game show as it would be another. Nothing in the trade mags of the time suggested it was just a short-run show. There was a Broadcasting article with quotes from then-NBC VP of game shows Jake Tauber who said the original probably shouldn't have been cancelled. Finally, if everybody thought it was going to be a short run, why not get Bill Cullen to host? BC's last TV appearance aired shortly after "Classic Concentration" started. I think the intent with most shows is to air them until ratings are poor.
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Well, "Blackout" was supposedly a placeholder until "The New Family Feud" was ready, "Second Chance" was put on because MG and ABC were readying a "spinoff" to FF, which became "The Better Sex", which may explain why it ran 19 weeks instead of the normal 13 or 26 weeks (and from what I understand, SC pulled better ratings than TBS), and Give-N-Take was a "holdover" for an hour-long TPIR. So it's entirely possible than NBC had more faith in Concentration than Blockbusters, but didn't want audiences to realize that BB was just a time-slot holder until CC was ready.
Ultimately what that means though is that the placeholder show must draw beaucoup ratings to stay on, however.
Tyshaun
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What's to get ready? FF was set in stone, piloted and Ray Combs selected as host for syndication in time for the NATPE convention in January 1988 for a fall start. "Blackout" went off a quarter of a year before CBS launched the daytime FF. You may be correct about SC, but I wonder why ABC didn't just jettison the "Happy Days" reruns to make room. The only time I've heard confirmation that a show was a stop-gap was the "Scrabble/Scattergories" hour, which Dick Clark said on Virginia Graham's radio show was pre-destined to end when "John and Leeza" was ready. As you may recall, S/S ran a couple of rerun weeks because the J&L was still not ready. The economics of that situation I can understand, because I presume "Santa Barbara" (the show S/S replaced) had a higher price tag than the two games would have.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'Oct 28 2004, 02:50 PM\']The only time I've heard confirmation that a show was a stop-gap was the "Scrabble/Scattergories" hour, which Dick Clark said on Virginia Graham's radio show was pre-destined to end when "John and Leeza" was ready.
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That explains why Scrabble didn't have a set for its 1993 mini-run...or at least not much of one.
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[quote name=\'Don Howard\' date=\'Oct 28 2004, 03:10 PM\'][quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'Oct 28 2004, 02:50 PM\']The only time I've heard confirmation that a show was a stop-gap was the "Scrabble/Scattergories" hour, which Dick Clark said on Virginia Graham's radio show was pre-destined to end when "John and Leeza" was ready.
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That explains why Scrabble didn't have a set for its 1993 mini-run...or at least not much of one.
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That explains nothing. I don't recall 93 Scrabble being played in an empty studio with two folding chairs and a stack of questions....
The set wasn't even much different than the original version!
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[quote name=\'tvwxman\' date=\'Oct 28 2004, 04:29 PM\']I don't recall 93 Scrabble being played in an empty studio with two folding chairs
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Actually, they used bean bag chairs.
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[quote name=\'tvwxman\' date=\'Oct 28 2004, 04:29 PM\']The set wasn't even much different than the original version![/quote]
I wouldn't say that. They probably reused/redressed some of the original set pieces (the gameboard, most noticably), but the look and style was completely different.
The Scrabble '93 set was much more sparse and I think it looked better. Those pastel blue and pink tiles of the 80s version looked like the show was taped in the hospital nursery.
ITSBRY
itsbry@juno.com
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[quote name=\'tyshaun1\' date=\'Oct 28 2004, 01:41 PM\']Well, "Blackout" was supposedly a placeholder until "The New Family Feud" was ready, "Second Chance" was put on because MG and ABC were readying a "spinoff" to FF, which became "The Better Sex", which may explain why it ran 19 weeks instead of the normal 13 or 26 weeks (and from what I understand, SC pulled better ratings than TBS), and Give-N-Take was a "holdover" for an hour-long TPIR. So it's entirely possible than NBC had more faith in Concentration than Blockbusters, but didn't want audiences to realize that BB was just a time-slot holder until CC was ready.
Tyshaun
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It's possible they didn't have much faith in Blockbusters due to the Concentration contestant plugs seen in the last month of the 1987 version's run :)
Seriously, another possible placeholder show of the late 80s was the NYSI 1989 revival. That might depend of course on when the deal to move WOF from NBC to CBS took place.
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[quote name=\'zachhoran\' date=\'Oct 28 2004, 06:26 PM\']Seriously, another possible placeholder show of the late 80s was the NYSI 1989 revival. That might depend of course on when the deal to move WOF from NBC to CBS took place.
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I seem to recall Curt saying that NYSI was against Classic Concentration, and the ratings were horrible, thus the cancellation.
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[quote name=\'Dsmith\' date=\'Oct 28 2004, 06:32 PM\'][quote name=\'zachhoran\' date=\'Oct 28 2004, 06:26 PM\']Seriously, another possible placeholder show of the late 80s was the NYSI 1989 revival. That might depend of course on when the deal to move WOF from NBC to CBS took place.
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I seem to recall Curt saying that NYSI was against Classic Concentration, and the ratings were horrible, thus the cancellation.
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Ah, don't believe anything he says.
The exact wording is: "With minor rule changes from the final edition of the 1975 version, heavy competition from NBC’s Classic Concentration and Henry wondering why he’d signed the contract, the revised Now You See It expired after 15 weeks."
I don't have access to the Nielsens -- but if Now You See It had gotten real good ratings, CBS would have found a spot for it somewhere. (I'm thinking not, especially given Bob Eubanks says in his book he would bet CBS's daytime chief would have called cancelling Card Sharks, NYSI's predecessor, one of his biggest mistakes.)
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Of course, with Classic Concentration beating CS by nearly a full ratings point by summer 1988, I'd imagine that losing Card Sharks wasn't a significant loss. Heck, from what I've seen, Card Sharks ratings never matched what PYL drew in the same time slot.
Tyshaun
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Why were some Goodson shows opposing each other?
I figured he wouldn't want to compete against himself.
Did Goodson have any say on what time his shows would air when the particular network picked it up?
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[quote name=\'cmjb13\' date=\'Oct 31 2004, 08:41 AM\']Why were some Goodson shows opposing each other?
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Well, it's not like it didn't happen before. In 1979, Perry CS and Hall BTC were slotted against one another (not to mention Perry CS and Dawson FF duking it out against one another the week after CS moved to the "death slot", then P+ and FF battled it out at 12N ET following CS' cancellation).
I guess if you have a high quantity of shows on the air, sometimes you can't help but be slotted against one another.
Doug
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[quote name=\'tyshaun1\' date=\'Oct 31 2004, 06:45 AM\']Of course, with Classic Concentration beating CS by nearly a full ratings point by summer 1988, I'd imagine that losing Card Sharks wasn't a significant loss.
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Yet another reason as to why I'm incredulous about Card Sharks staying and The $25,000 Pyramid being pulled after its return with great fanfare when the Ray Combs Family Feud was ready for the running. Or was my beloved $ale of the Century positively clubbing $25K P in the ratings at 10:00?
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[quote name=\'cmjb13\' date=\'Oct 31 2004, 08:41 AM\']Why were some Goodson shows opposing each other?
I figured he wouldn't want to compete against himself.
Did Goodson have any say on what time his shows would air when the particular network picked it up?
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By the late '80's, it was probably a case of either compete with yourself or not get picked up. I think I read somewhere that the 10:30 slot was preferred for TPIR in 1972, due to a number of CBS affils that didn't clear the 10am offering because of a local movie or the third half-hour of Mike Douglas. From 69 to 78 there were no Goodson games on the NBC network, so the conflicts were almost non-existant then. Heatter-Quigley had Gambit and High Rollers competing for a time, which was interesting. If you didn't like Kenny Williams announcing a game where contestants ring in to answer questions as a lovely hostess held your fate in their hands, you were out of luck.
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I think part of it might have also been that, by the late '80s, game shows were primarily seen in the mornings, and soaps in the afternoons. During the '70s, each network had game blocks both in the mornings and afternoons so it wasn't as much of a problem.
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I think I read on here a while ago that CS was originally slotted to take Body Language's slot, but with some Goodson needling thrown into the mix, CBS gave it PYL's old slot. I do know CBS announced CS in September '85, but didn't give it a time slot until Nov. '85.
Tyshaun
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[quote name=\'tyshaun1\' date=\'Oct 31 2004, 01:21 PM\'] I do know CBS announced CS in September '85, but didn't give it a time slot until Nov. '85.
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And Bob Eubanks announced it during the Spring of 1985 on Hour Magazine.
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I wouldn't put much credence in these "the network put X on as a placeholder while Y was getting ready for air" stories. For a variety of reasons it doesn't make sense to axe a show and put an unknown quantity in its place temporarily. If the temporary show turns out to be a hit, what happens to the show in development it was holding the place of? Generally, if a network needed to buy time while another show was being prepared, the incumbent show would go on week-to-week renewals rather than a full 13-week cycle. Putting on shows for temporary runs would cultivate horrible ill will with packagers if they knew their show's fate was sealed and didn't have a shot at renewal. They would start pitching their ideas to the network that would give them a better deal in terms of not putting on shows temporarily.
The '70s and '80s were a bullish time for game shows. The networks were developing and piloting new shows year round, so at any given time you could say show X was being developed/shooting a pilot while show Y was on the air. That doesn't necessarily mean show Y was intended to be a temporary "placeholder" while X was being readied.