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The Pax web site shows Balderdash and On The Cover getting demoted to the 5:00 slot. The Prof says the shows are getting kicked around in the Nielsens - even by Pax standards? Yikes! - so I doubt that either will stick around much longer. I'll have to sample them before the light flickers out completely.
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Actually, I think this is a good move for both shows. In August, when I went on set to do interviews for a story I wrote about "Balderdash," I questioned one of the producers about its time slot -- namely 8:30 p.m. Eastern and Pacific. The response he gave to me was logical, but the chances of a show like "Balderdash" (a fine quality show IMHO) competing with the big-name primne-time shows on the big networks are slim to none. Moving those two shows to the 5:00 hour will only increase the shows ratings and solidify their futures.
Andrew M. Greenstein
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Frankly, I think the shows are history. But maybe they could linger on for a little while. That is, if Pax itself lingers on...
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Hold the phone guys. I received word that this is just for one week. The shows return to their regular times the following week.
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[quote name=\'bandit_bobby\' date=\'Oct 2 2004, 03:15 PM\']Hold the phone guys. I received word that this is just for one week. The shows return to their regular times the following week.
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Please do cite your source.
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[quote name=\'Don Howard\' date=\'Oct 2 2004, 03:32 PM\'][quote name=\'bandit_bobby\' date=\'Oct 2 2004, 03:15 PM\']Hold the phone guys. I received word that this is just for one week. The shows return to their regular times the following week.
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Please do cite your source.
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I don't know his source, but here is the Oct. 11 PAX schedule:
http://www.paxtv.com/schedule/default.cfm?date=10/11/2004 (http://\"http://www.paxtv.com/schedule/default.cfm?date=10/11/2004\")
OTC and Balderdash are back in the old slots, with the new fall shows afterwards. Maybe they just took them out of the slot for that week to get the new shows off the ground, then put the new shows in a permanent slot the next week.
I would say that they didn't update the schedule for that week yet, that's why OTC and Balderdash are still on at 8, but the new shows are in there so it looks like they'll go back to the regular time on the 11th.
Also, look at the 11:30PM weeknight slot, Beat The Clock is scheduled for that time. It wasn't the best show, but it's a nice little treat.
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Yep, that's what the Pax site says. Seems like a crazy programming move to shuffle around the shows like that, but this is Pax. I still doubt the shows have much of a future, though. If they were doing decent numbers, even by Pax's very low standards, they wouldn't be getting shoved around the timeslots.
And Pax is debuting new shows the week of October 4 in the 8:00 slot, then moving them to the 9:00 slot the very next week? Who's running this network?
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[quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'Oct 2 2004, 11:54 PM\']Yep, that's what the Pax site says. Seems like a crazy programming move to shuffle around the shows like that, but this is Pax. I still doubt the shows have much of a future, though. If they were doing decent numbers, even by Pax's very low standards, they wouldn't be getting shoved around the timeslots.
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But there's already a large number of eps. in the can for Balderdash. (This is the part of this thread where Mr. Conn jumps in...hopefully. :-)) There are numerous eps. with the first set which haven't aired, unless John Ratzenberger, John Moschitta, and George Wendt appeared on only one show apiece. Anyhow, weren't the original orders for OtC and B-dash 130 episodes apiece?
I have a feeling they'll be on PAX for a while. Look at their recent history with their original shows--Supermarket Sweep reran for a year or two before the plug was pulled within the past year, and apparently Beat the Clock is getting the rerun treatment at 11:30 PM. (Since our PAX affiliate shows infomercials and religious programming after 11:30 PM, I can't confirm this.)
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[quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'Oct 2 2004, 01:26 PM\']The Pax web site shows Balderdash and On The Cover getting demoted to the 5:00 slot. The Prof says the shows are getting kicked around in the Nielsens - even by Pax standards? Yikes! - so I doubt that either will stick around much longer. I'll have to sample them before the light flickers out completely.
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The Prof? You mean "The Perfessor?" Don't dignify him too much. :-)
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We've already discussed what to call Mr. Beverly. Whatever you call him, he's probably right about the bad numbers for Balderdash and On The Cover. Otherwise, I can't understand Pax kicking the shows around different time slots.
But I can't understand how Pax stays in business, either.
This story (http://\"http://www.talkabouttelevision.com/group/alt.tv.game-shows/messages/332601.html\") agrees that Balderdash got a 130-episode order. I don't know if that's "disgusting," as the web site author says, but it seems like a lot. Wonder if the show will last long enough for all the eps to air?
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My guess is that they have enough shows to run through at least Thanksgiving Week. After that, who knows.
Also, Donny Osmand's Pyramid gets a 7 PM Eastern time slot starting on Monday where those markets don't show the repeat brodcast of the NBC affiliate's 6 PM local newscast as well as the 6 PM slot. Shop Till You Drop & Family Feud remain locked in their time slots(6:30 & 7:30 PM Eastern).
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This story agrees that Balderdash got a 130-episode order. I don't know if that's "disgusting," as the web site author says, but it seems like a lot.
In the erstwhile days of network daytime games, shows often started out with a 13-week commitment. 130 shows equal 26 weeks. In daytime, a packager with clout/leverage with a network could start with 26 weeks, so it's really no worse than a daytime show would get in days gone by.
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[quote name=\'hmtriplecrown\' date=\'Oct 2 2004, 11:08 PM\']But there's already a large number of eps. in the can for Balderdash. (This is the part of this thread where Mr. Conn jumps in...hopefully. :-)) There are numerous eps. with the first set which haven't aired, unless John Ratzenberger, John Moschitta, and George Wendt appeared on only one show apiece. [/quote]
Hello, jumping in. There are 130 episodes completed. I was told the shows were moving to an earlier timeslot, and wasn't aware it was for only one week. PAX does stuff like that, seemingly without rhyme or reason (insert Nipsey Russell joke here).
The first week aired, they picked random episodes from five different strips. So everyone has done at least 5 shows.
There are still several weeks of shows with the original set look that haven't aired, I'm not sure when those are going to be on.
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In the erstwhile days of network daytime games, shows often started out with a 13-week commitment. 130 shows equal 26 weeks. In daytime, a packager with clout/leverage with a network could start with 26 weeks, so it's really no worse than a daytime show would get in days gone by.
I've always wondered about that: some shows were cancelled after an unusual number of weeks: "Blankety Blanks" after 10 weeks, "Chain Reaction" after 23 weeks, "Bargain Hunters" after 9 weeks, etc.
Did the networks "buy out" the rest of the contracts, or were some shows "renewed" on a week-to-week basis?
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I dunno...but you can add "Go!" (16) and "Hot Potato" (23) to that.
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[quote name=\'bwood\' date=\'Oct 2 2004, 03:41 PM\']Also, look at the 11:30PM weeknight slot, Beat The Clock is scheduled for that time. It wasn't the best show, but it's a nice little treat.
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Knocked out in some markets by the repeat of the local NBC affiliate's late news (as in Chicago), as are the shows in the 7 p.m. or 7:30 p.m. ET slots in some markets knocked out for repeats of the early local news.
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[quote name=\'uncamark\' date=\'Oct 4 2004, 03:05 PM\'][quote name=\'bwood\' date=\'Oct 2 2004, 03:41 PM\']Also, look at the 11:30PM weeknight slot, Beat The Clock is scheduled for that time. It wasn't the best show, but it's a nice little treat.
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Knocked out in some markets by the repeat of the local NBC affiliate's late news (as in Chicago), as are the shows in the 7 p.m. or 7:30 p.m. ET slots in some markets knocked out for repeats of the early local news.
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And in the case of Norfolk (news repeated at 7 and 11:30 pm), Pyramid airs at 6 pm.
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I have a feeling they'll be on PAX for a while. Look at their recent history with their original shows--Supermarket Sweep reran for a year or two before the plug was pulled within the past year, and apparently Beat the Clock is getting the rerun treatment at 11:30 PM. (Since our PAX affiliate shows infomercials and religious programming after 11:30 PM, I can't confirm this.)
When I was vacationing in Myrtle Beach this summer, since the city has no local PAX affiliate, our condo's cable system used the national feed, and they did indeed have an hr BtC block from 11-midnight...however, when I returned home a wk later and checked out the PAX national feed on DirecTV, they were running infomercials in said slot...odd.
Chuck Donegan (The Puzzled "Chuckie Baby")
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Also look at the 11:30PM weeknight slot, Beat the Clock is scheduled there
My cable system says On The Cover is on at 11:30 p.m.
Brian
Little Bo Peep lost her virginity?
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My cable system says On The Cover is on at 11:30 p.m.
I looked at Pax at 11:30, and BTC was on.
Brian
Tom Brokaw anchored the CBS Evening News?
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[quote name=\'brianhenke\' date=\'Oct 4 2004, 11:54 PM\']
My cable system says On The Cover is on at 11:30 p.m.
I looked at Pax at 11:30, and BTC was on.
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I have DirecTV and checked out the national feed at 11:30 last night to see if BtC was on and it wasn't. All that was on was an infomercial, though the PAX site lists BtC for the national feed.
My local PAX station aired something else.
About the article at TVGameshows.net regarding the PAX game block. That was completely wrong. I watched the national feed and what was listed was what was on. No OtC at 5:30 or Balderdash at 6. The Pyramids did air at 6 & 7. There was no WL at 5. There were infomercials at 5 & 5:30 (PAX listed OtC and Balderdash, they didn't air on my national feed), Pyramid at 6, StyD at 6:30, Pyramid at 7, FF at 7:30. He must have based his info on his local PAX station, because the national feed aired nothing like that.
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In my case, "Balderdash" was aired locally at 4, and "On The Cover" at 430. They were aired by the local station. And guess how I know that? :) :) At 458, OTC was inexplicably switched off and the national feed turned on (for whatever was supposed to be airing at 6 ET).
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[quote name=\'bwood\' date=\'Oct 5 2004, 06:39 AM\']I have DirecTV and checked out the national feed at 11:30 last night to see if BtC was on and it wasn't. ...
...There were infomercials at 5 & 5:30 (PAX listed OtC and Balderdash, they didn't air on my national feed) ...[/quote]
Well, that confirms what I'm getting - or not getting - on dish. Evidently PAX sends down a separate stream to the DBS Nets, loaded to the gills with infomercial tripe to cover what should be there, and that includes Bonanza at 4 ET. However, dish's On-screen guide correctly lists only Paid-Time Programming during that two-hour slot.
No wonder PAX is going down the toilet. They can't even clear the same lineup everywhere - although the overnight programming might get dish into more hot water with those Dominion folks in Florida.
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[quote name=\'ChuckNet\' date=\'Oct 4 2004, 08:36 PM\']When I was vacationing in Myrtle Beach this summer, since the city has no local PAX affiliate, our condo's cable system used the national feed, and they did indeed have an hr BtC block from 11-midnight...however, when I returned home a wk later and checked out the PAX national feed on DirecTV, they were running infomercials in said slot...odd.
Chuck Donegan (The Puzzled "Chuckie Baby")
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Here in Cleveland, the local PAX affiliate was airing the "special week" of OTC at 5:30ET, I flipped to the national feed on DirecTV, as my local affiliate's audio always sounds over-modulated, and lo & behold -- INFOMERCIAL!!!
Usually, it's the other way around, when the local station will alter the programming for something that they think is better for that time slot, like earlier this year when the TPIR Primetime eps were airing.
WOIO/CBS-19 in Cleveland aired a movie in lieu of TPiR-Primetime, running a crawl which said TPIR would air sometime after 1 or 2 in the morning.
If that's the way our local affiliate feels about CBS programming, then I wish to hell they would air anything but Dan Rather during the time the CBS Evening News was scheduled to air -- Put HIM overnight -- Might prove to be a great way to put insomniacs to sleep! :-)
Tim
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[quote name=\'TimK2003\' date=\'Oct 5 2004, 05:39 PM\']Here in Cleveland, the local PAX affiliate was airing the "special week" of OTC at 5:30ET, I flipped to the national feed on DirecTV, as my local affiliate's audio always sounds over-modulated, and lo & behold -- INFOMERCIAL!!!
Usually, it's the other way around, when the local station will alter the programming for something that they think is better for that time slot, like earlier this year when the TPIR Primetime eps were airing.
WOIO/CBS-19 in Cleveland aired a movie in lieu of TPiR-Primetime, running a crawl which said TPIR would air sometime after 1 or 2 in the morning.
If that's the way our local affiliate feels about CBS programming, then I wish to hell they would air anything but Dan Rather during the time the CBS Evening News was scheduled to air -- Put HIM overnight -- Might prove to be a great way to put insomniacs to sleep! :-)
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What you got was what could be called Make Good Theater--the station has a bunch of make good advertising they can't reschedule in normal station breaks (and a title in one of their syndicated movie packages that has to air within a certain period). You pre-empt the network on a slow ratings night (like, say, Saturday night, if this was most of the prime time "TPIR"s), play the movie and take care of all of your make goods for a certain period. Everyone's happy and you may even get a higher rating than what the network programming would pull. The network's not happy about it, but they know it happens and if it's on a night like Saturday or a weak ratings night, they don't try to stop it.
(I'm staying out of Dan Rather--we don't need to get politics involved here...)
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Just to update, this week Balderdash and On the Cover are still relegated to 5 and 5:30 respectively. Maybe this change is permanent after all.
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You say "relegated" like it's a bad thing. Looking at this from the network POV, they probably want to put shows in the 8:00 hour that they've invested the most into; that means their hour-long originals, and not two game shows they can use to patch up any schedule holes.
I, for one, like the change, and bet it'll bring an upturn for their ratings, at least in general.
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I think these shows are doomed. Probably since day one.
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I certainly hope what you say is wrong Bandit, but if these shows stay in this slot for a while, which is how it looks now, they very well may be. That would be a shame too, since both these shows are highly underrated in my opinion, and deserve runs longer then they will likely get.
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If you think they're doomed, then don't watch, please. At least that'll leave someone else for the recaps to be done right.
Adam, it's quite clear you didn't even read my post. Just because it stayed in a time slot doesn't mean it's going off the air tomorrow. It could stay there for years, because more of the target audience will watch it there. Or Bud Paxson shook his magic 8-ball and it said to put it there. Who knows? It was just a move; don't read too much into it.
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Now that I am thinking about it, you're probably right. One would think Pax gets crushed by the major networks anyway in primetime, so if the show airs in the early evening, they have less competiton to worry about.
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[quote name=\'adamjk\' date=\'Oct 12 2004, 07:02 PM\']Just to update, this week Balderdash and On the Cover are still relegated to 5 and 5:30 respectively. Maybe this change is permanent after all.
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I am surprised that noone has come up with the most probable reason why they "temporarily" moved Balderdash & On The Cover from the 8-9PM slot....
...PAX is currently doing that "$1,000 Birthday Game" contest which could happen anytime between 8PM & 10PM each weeknight. And what is PAX airing between said timeslots? The first run eps of their new Fall Prime Time shows that they have invested a ton of money on (at least by PAX's definition)!!!
<WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH!!!!!!!!!>
Though I cannot read the fine print on my TV which states when the PAX contest will end, I would bet 10 dozen Krispy Kremes that once the contest is over, the game shows will, as if by magic, reappear in the 8-9PM hour once again.
Tim
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Quite frankly I think Balderdash and OTC should remain in the 5 pm hour, because they're just not primetime shows. I'm not saying that to bash the shows (in fact, I think they're quality shows, especially considering PAX's budget), but only the biggest game show fans are going to choose those shows over what the Big Six have to offer. Put OTC and Balderdash at 5 pm, when people are more likely to be channel-surfing, and the show might have a chance to gain some kind of fanbase outside of us game show nuts.
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FWIW, the Pax schedule (http://\"http://www.paxtv.com/schedule/\") shows On the Cover and Balderdash in the 5:00 hour for the rest of October. Really made no sense, even by Pax's inscrutable standards, to shuffle the shows back and forth between a couple timeslots.
Frankly, a downgrade from prime time, even on Pax, is just that...a downgrade. I don't know if the shows are doomed, but this ain't a good sign, folks. I'll try to catch the shows before, well, whatever happens.
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Upon reviewing the official rules of said Million Dollar Birthday Game on the PAX website, the contest is slated to run through November 24th.
I would not be surprised to see the games staying in the 5-6P slot until then. And of course, by then the ratings may dictate at that time whether they remain as late afternoon shows or if they return to their regular 8-9P slots, or somewhere else altogether.
Tim
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[quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'Oct 13 2004, 08:26 AM\']I don't know if the shows are doomed, but this ain't a good sign, folks. I'll try to catch the shows before, well, whatever happens.[/quote]
Casey,
As has been mentioned in the not too distant past, 130 episodes of Balderdash are in the can. How many have aired--about 50? IIRC, OtC has 130 eps. as well. About 45 have aired, not counting the "old set" eps. which aired in the summer. PAX isn't going to pull the plug either show with so many episodes unaired. The worst case scenario is that the 130 eps. of each show go through one run, which means each show should be on PAX through February. The best case (if there is truly one) is that those episodes go in perpetual reruns.
If you're PAX, you're looking at airing inexpensive programming now and probably for as long as the network's around. Besides paid programming or a test pattern, what's less expensive than airing an out-of-production game show? PAX just has to pay residuals to the celebrities and Elayne, no?
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They could have made 1,300 eps, but if the shows really are getting creamed in the ratings as badly as the Prof and the downgrade indicate, wouldn't any network be tempted to try something else? For Pax it might just be another hour of infomercials to bring in more revenue than ads on a couple Nielsen losers could fetch. They've pushed the shows back to what, for Pax, is almost infomercial territory, anyway.
It's called sunk costs. Just because a business has spent some money doesn't mean it has to keep using what it bought...especially if there's an easy and cheap alternative that would produce more revenue going forward. (See "LMAD revival" under "NBC.")
I don't know, maybe the shows will find an audience at 5:00 and produce enough ad dollars to keep Pax from just selling more infomercial time. We'll see, but the outlook doesn't seem real encouraging.
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[quote name=\'hmtriplecrown\' date=\'Oct 13 2004, 03:06 PM\']If you're PAX, you're looking at airing inexpensive programming now and probably for as long as the network's around. Besides paid programming or a test pattern, what's less expensive than airing an out-of-production game show? PAX just has to pay residuals to the celebrities and Elayne, no?
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Residuals also go out to John Moschitta, director Bob Loudin (?) and WGA member writers, if any. The guy who wrote the music also gets a royalty. Still relatively cheap.
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[quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'Oct 13 2004, 03:50 PM\']It's called sunk costs. Just because a business has spent some money doesn't mean it has to keep using what it bought...especially if there's an easy and cheap alternative that would produce more revenue going forward. (See "LMAD revival" under "NBC.")
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Thanks much for the lesson in Economics, Professor Abell.
Regardless; even if PAX spent, for the sake of argument, $200,000 on these shows; wouldn't it be worthwhile to finish their commitment, and make up for it in the advertising time? Surely that brings in more than an infomercial.
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[quote name=\'Dsmith\' date=\'Oct 14 2004, 02:09 PM\']Surely that brings in more than an infomercial.
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and _there_ is the flaw in your reasoning. It's entirely possible that it DOESN'T.
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Thanks much for the lesson in Economics, Professor Abell.
Does this mean I'm the...Prof?
Anyhoo, we'll see soon enough about the two shows. Pax may grind through all the eps, but there's no law that they have to. Besides the LMAD example I already mentioned, NBC left a number of Weakest Link and Dog Eat Dog episodes on the shelf, before making a few bucks on the GSN license.