The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: DrBear on July 16, 2004, 06:21:17 PM
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Since some of you are avoiding the show summaries so as not to catch any Jeopardy! spoilers, you may have missed the following interesting question posted by sotcfan2004 in one of the posts, so if nobody minds a bit of cross-posting, I'll bring it over here for a new thread:
One thing that had crossed my mind: does anybody think that Ken's J! streak will rekindle any interest in TV game shows? I think the reality phenomenon is losing steam, and it might just be time to get back to basics. Opinions? Criticism?
As for me, I really have my doubts; it might get one or two an extra look in syndication, but I think the networks are so tied into what they have and the execs are so anti-game it won't help.
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Of course, back in 1990, the trend was to try and "take away Jeopardy's
older and less fickle viewers" with The Challengers, The Quiz Kids Challenge,
Trump Card, The Joker's Wild, and Tic Tac Dough.....ratings-wise, we all
know what happened......
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I'd really like to see the return of game shows (WoF (w/shopping) and HSQ, mainly) in NBC (or network) daytime. Since Millionaire, the networks keep attempting to put their game shows in primetime, all of which failed. When did the last network daytime gameshow premiere?
It won't happen, though. I think we're more likely to see the return of "Hello, Larry" in syndication.
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[quote name=\'1978-Jeopardy\' date=\'Jul 16 2004, 07:30 PM\'] I think we're more likely to see the return of "Hello, Larry" in syndication. [/quote]
For a look at Kim Richards again, I wouldn't mind that one bit. I'll have to content myself with my copy of Tuff Turf.
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On Kim Richards.....agreed!!
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Nothing against our precious "Hello, Larry" or your precious Kim Richards, I liked that show! I just don't think we're likely to see it again, along with game shows on the networks during daytime (disreguarding TPIR).
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[quote name=\'1978-Jeopardy\' date=\'Jul 16 2004, 07:30 PM\'] I'd really like to see the return of game shows (WoF (w/shopping) and HSQ, mainly) in NBC (or network) daytime. Since Millionaire, the networks keep attempting to put their game shows in primetime, all of which failed. When did the last network daytime gameshow premiere?
It won't happen, though. I think we're more likely to see the return of "Hello, Larry" in syndication. [/quote]
Unfortunately, I agree. I think the only thing that will survive in daytime are soaps and TPiR. If and when ABC cancels The View, that timeslot will probably go back to the affiliates, just like NBC did with "Leeza" a few years ago. I'd LOVE to see a daytime lineup with games, not wall-to-wall, but I'd be content with a 9 am to noon block of games, then do soaps in the afternoon. I can compromise, but obviously, I can also dream. :-)
BTW, the last daytime premiere was "Caesar's Challenge," 1993.
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[quote name=\'rmfromfla\' date=\'Jul 16 2004, 05:27 PM\'] Of course, back in 1990, the trend was to try and "take away Jeopardy's
older and less fickle viewers" with The Challengers, The Quiz Kids Challenge,
Trump Card, The Joker's Wild, and Tic Tac Dough.....ratings-wise, we all
know what happened...... [/quote]
Trump Card wasn't a bad game, but it got old really fast because it didn't really offer much, IMO, to feast the mind. The Jokers' Wild and Tic Tac Dough both suffered from some of the worst MC'ing in game show history, not to mention screwing with the format (more a problem for TJW) when it wasn't necessary. I never saw Quiz Kids Challenge, so no comment there.
The Challengers, OTOH, I found really enjoyable as a J! alternative. It had plenty of play-along value, plus enough big risks with $$$ to keep me on the edge of my seat. I think it deserves another chance. (side note: this is generally credited as a revival of the Who What or Where Game).
OK, now for the question of reviving interest in game shows ... we saw this in late 1999/early 2000. Does anyone remember Winning Lines (US version), the revived Twenty-One and Greed? The last of the three was the most successful of the games that came about in a bid to counter Millionaire. All three stopped production within a year, the first two within less than three months. Ken Jennings has sparked interest in J!, but I don't see a game show revival coming about just because of a single contestant's improbable but spectacular run. I really hate to say it, but I do expect the show's ratings to decline some once Ken suffers his inevitable defeat (and may that be many, many shows down the line).
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I disagree with a lot of you...call me an optomist, but I really do believe that the suits in Hollywood are watching this Ken Jennings guy, and their brains are spinning....Let's get a big money quiz show that has the potential to keep players on the air for weeks! The PR engines would go into overtime!
Think about it...what other game shows on the air offer long time returning champs....these days, there aren't many shows that offer returning champs period!
J!'s quick ratings rise due to our friend Ken proves how quickly folks can jump on the game show bandwagon, and even though it may not pay off in the right demos, it does pay off in higher ad rates....especially in the July sweeps month.
My prediction : Fall 2005 sees at least one new game show in syndication that has the potential for unlimited winnings.
I just hope it's not the All New Million Dollar Dating Game.
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I think you may be on to something- "The Dating Game" with returning champs!
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[quote name=\'tvwxman\' date=\'Jul 17 2004, 05:42 AM\'] I disagree with a lot of you...call me an optomist, but I really do believe that the suits in Hollywood are watching this Ken Jennings guy, and their brains are spinning....Let's get a big money quiz show that has the potential to keep players on the air for weeks! The PR engines would go into overtime!
[/quote]
I'd love to share your optimism, but recent history of the so-called 'game show bandwagon' hasn't been on your side. Again, I point to the two flops of 2000. At least Greed produced enough episodes to warrant airing repeats on GSN. Even then, I can't say it was as successful as Millionaire. I'm a bit concerned that concepts will go to air before they've really been thought through and tweaked to the points where the games are playable without obvious flaws in them.
It would be fantastic if you were right, but like I said, history's not on the side of your optimism.
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[quote name=\'DrJWJustice\' date=\'Jul 17 2004, 07:44 AM\']
I'd love to share your optimism, but recent history of the so-called 'game show bandwagon' hasn't been on your side. Again, I point to the two flops of 2000. At least Greed produced enough episodes to warrant airing repeats on GSN. Even then, I can't say it was as successful as Millionaire. I'm a bit concerned that concepts will go to air before they've really been thought through and tweaked to the points where the games are playable without obvious flaws in them.
[/quote]
You're right about past history....and you've hit the nail on the head with execs who are too quick to pull the trigger when it comes to rushing a game on the air, and rushing a game off the air...both seen back in 2000.....
Fact of the matter is ....Greed should have had a longer life.....Winning Lines should never have had one...we're glad it did , but remember, Les Moonves himself said the show got on the air ONLY to capitalize on the Millionaire craze...
That said, syndication is a different animal....shows are thought out well in advance, and sold to stations long before they air....and though I don't forsee any prime time games anytime soon... I think next fall will bring syndie games for us...
Question for the game show experts in the biz...where is Liar? and will What the Blank? see the light of day?
Matt
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[quote name=\'tvwxman\' date=\'Jul 17 2004, 09:35 AM\'] That said, syndication is a different animal....shows are thought out well in advance, and sold to stations long before they air....and though I don't forsee any prime time games anytime soon... I think next fall will bring syndie games for us...
Question for the game show experts in the biz...where is Liar? and will What the Blank? see the light of day?
[/quote]
Speakin' o' which, now might be just the opportunity to write to Sony and say, "Hey, you remember that Pyramid revival you pulled from the air recently?..."
Naw, it won't happen, but it's a thought.
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Since Millionaire, the networks keep attempting to put their game shows in primetime, all of which failed. When did the last network daytime gameshow premiere?
Aren't some of the ABC O&O's airing "Millionaire" at 12:30? Maybe it's not the same as being on the full network, but it might be a start towards daytime if ratings prove successful.
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[quote name=\'DrJWJustice\' date=\'Jul 17 2004, 12:24 PM\'][quote name=\'tvwxman\' date=\'Jul 17 2004, 09:35 AM\'] That said, syndication is a different animal....shows are thought out well in advance, and sold to stations long before they air....and though I don't forsee any prime time games anytime soon... I think next fall will bring syndie games for us...
Question for the game show experts in the biz...where is Liar? and will What the Blank? see the light of day?
[/quote]
Speakin' o' which, now might be just the opportunity to write to Sony and say, "Hey, you remember that Pyramid revival you pulled from the air recently?..."
Naw, it won't happen, but it's a thought.[/quote]
I would add, "And this time, could you get Sande Stewart and Dick Clark to produce?" Maybe that way, the game might be played and judged more like it was in the '80s, and the show would look more like the Pyramid and less like Who Wants to Be a Millionaire.
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That 12:30 Millionaire run could have been a rerun from the first (syn)
season: two stations in my area run an early episode (S1) around noon
and then have the regular ep. at 6:30; Columbus, GA, has a full hour
at 10 AM.....
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Jul 17 2004, 01:25 PM\'] Aren't some of the ABC O&O's airing "Millionaire" at 12:30? Maybe it's not the same as being on the full network, but it might be a start towards daytime if ratings prove successful. [/quote]
WPVI-6 from Philly and WABC-7 from NYC, both ABC O&O's, run "Millionaire" at 12:30pm. WHTM-27 from Harrisburg, also an ABC affiliate (owned by Allbritton Communications, though, not ABC), is going to change "Millionaire"'s timeslot from 4pm to 12:30pm this fall. I frankly wouldn't be surprised to see WNEP-16 (Scranton's ABC) do it either.
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My guess -- to the initial question is:
No. Ken alone won't do it. You get contestants like him maybe once a decade or so.
But if Davies goes ahead with a grand tournament of champions across the genre (for, say, two or five million dollars), THAT might...
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[quote name=\'DrJWJustice\' date=\'Jul 17 2004, 03:00 AM\'] The Challengers, OTOH, I found really enjoyable as a J! alternative. It had plenty of play-along value, plus enough big risks with $$$ to keep me on the edge of my seat. I think it deserves another chance. (side note: this is generally credited as a revival of the Who What or Where Game).
[/quote]
What a magnificent show that was--even though they putzed with the rules a bit too much along the way. Why some people thought it was a Jeopardy! ripoff is beyond me. The scoreboards were identical, but so what? The players had to answer in the form of an answer. I don't get the copycat accusation. Plus, there was the added nicety of the runners-up being able to keep their money.
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[quote name=\'Don Howard\' date=\'Jul 20 2004, 10:42 PM\'] [quote name=\'DrJWJustice\' date=\'Jul 17 2004, 03:00 AM\'] The Challengers, OTOH, I found really enjoyable as a J! alternative. It had plenty of play-along value, plus enough big risks with $$$ to keep me on the edge of my seat. I think it deserves another chance. (side note: this is generally credited as a revival of the Who What or Where Game).
[/quote]
What a magnificent show that was--even though they putzed with the rules a bit too much along the way. Why some people thought it was a Jeopardy! ripoff is beyond me. The scoreboards were identical, but so what? The players had to answer in the form of an answer. I don't get the copycat accusation. Plus, there was the added nicety of the runners-up being able to keep their money. [/quote]
Could it be the fact they had something called "The Final Challenge" [or whatever it was called], and players had to make a wager?
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In "The Final Challenge", the category was revealed , and the topics of the
three questions were shown, with their odds: 3x, 2x, and Even Money.
If two or all three players picked the same question, the player who had the
most money wagered would answer that question.
The winner moved on to the Ultimate Challenge for either:
1. In the first two months of the show, the jackpot started at $50,000 and went
up $1,000 for each day it was not won. Players had to win three games in order
to have a shot at the jackpot.
2. After the first TOC, the Ultimate Challenge became only $10,000, did not
escalate, and the day's winner would have a chance to play for that.
This just in, Florida Governor Jeb Bush has signed into law a bill that requires
preschoolers to learn the basics of copyright laws. Film At 11.....
(check the Kevin Olmstead post.....)
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[quote name=\'rmfromfla\' date=\'Jul 21 2004, 08:55 AM\']
The winner moved on to the Ultimate Challenge for either:
1. In the first two months of the show, the jackpot started at $50,000 and went
up $1,000 for each day it was not won. Players had to win three games in order
to have a shot at the jackpot.
2. After the first TOC, the Ultimate Challenge became only $10,000, did not
escalate, and the day's winner would have a chance to play for that.
[/quote]
Originally, the Ultimate Challenge started at $50K and went up $5K each time it was played for and not won(was played for on the Sneak Preview episode airing on Labor Day weekend in 1990). After a few weeks, they changed it to have it increase $1K per show until won. After the first UC win, the jackpot then started at $25K.
Later in the run, the $10K UC question was dumped and there was no more endgame.
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[quote name=\'Dsmith\' date=\'Jul 20 2004, 11:20 PM\'][quote name=\'Don Howard\' date=\'Jul 20 2004, 10:42 PM\'] [quote name=\'DrJWJustice\' date=\'Jul 17 2004, 03:00 AM\'] The Challengers, OTOH, I found really enjoyable as a J! alternative. It had plenty of play-along value, plus enough big risks with $$$ to keep me on the edge of my seat. I think it deserves another chance. (side note: this is generally credited as a revival of the Who What or Where Game).
[/quote]
What a magnificent show that was--even though they putzed with the rules a bit too much along the way. Why some people thought it was a Jeopardy! ripoff is beyond me. The scoreboards were identical, but so what? The players had to answer in the form of an answer. I don't get the copycat accusation. Plus, there was the added nicety of the runners-up being able to keep their money. [/quote]
Could it be the fact they had something called "The Final Challenge" [or whatever it was called], and players had to make a wager?[/quote]
It should be remembered that "The Challengers'" progenitor, "The Who, What or Where Game," ran for four years after "J!" every day on NBC. Neither Merv nor Ronnie Greenberg seemed to be too concerned that their shows both featured in their last rounds players making secret decisions to think music.
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This is exactly why I've been so upset with recent shows and their silly decision to get rid of returning champs (hello Pyramid)
Returning champs function as a bridge to the next show, a cliffhanger if you will. Tune in tomorrow to see how the champ does. It's a key component in turning the casual viewer into an everyday viewer.
The reasons for ditching them are no longer valid in the age of satellites.
As to the subject at hand, no I don't think we're going to see a resurgence.
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This just in, Florida Governor Jeb Bush has signed into law a bill that requires
preschoolers to learn the basics of copyright laws.
The difference between the game show industry and elections in Florida: In the game show industry it's illegal to rig the outcome.
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Given present situations with competitions such as Survivor and American Idol, is it such?
(One of the unpleasant offshoots of the likes of those two shows are a number of people proposing this is Charles Van Doren II.)
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[quote name=\'tvwxman\' date=\'Jul 17 2004, 09:35 AM\'] Question for the game show experts in the biz...where is Liar? [/quote]
I'm no expert, but from what I saw of Liar, I'm assuming it's dead. The only way I saw it going to air was if CBS decided it was an inexpensive alternative to summer reruns.
Actually, I was surprised it even made it to pilot -- didn't we recently learn that To Tell the Truth was pretty much a dead concept in this day and age? (Not saying that's a good thing, mind you.)
--
Scott Robinson
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[quote name=\'rmfromfla\' date=\'Jul 21 2004, 08:55 AM\'] This just in, Florida Governor Jeb Bush has signed into law a bill that requires
preschoolers to learn the basics of copyright laws. Film At 11.....
(check the Kevin Olmstead post.....) [/quote]
And we wonder why our kids don't learn anything in school anymore...its that we have teachers like this.
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[quote name=\'MSTieScott\' date=\'Jul 21 2004, 11:06 PM\'] [quote name=\'tvwxman\' date=\'Jul 17 2004, 09:35 AM\'] Question for the game show experts in the biz...where is Liar? [/quote]
I'm no expert, but from what I saw of Liar, I'm assuming it's dead. The only way I saw it going to air was if CBS decided it was an inexpensive alternative to summer reruns.
Actually, I was surprised it even made it to pilot -- didn't we recently learn that To Tell the Truth was pretty much a dead concept in this day and age? (Not saying that's a good thing, mind you.)
--
Scott Robinson [/quote]
TTTT not working was someone's opinion. My opinion is that it would work again.
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Returning champs function as a bridge to the next show, a cliffhanger if you will. Tune in tomorrow to see how the champ does. It's a key component in turning the casual viewer into an everyday viewer.
The reasons for ditching them are no longer valid in the age of satellites.
I think it's for a number of reasons: producers probably feel that today's viewer doesn't have the attention span (or maybe even the time) to tune in every day to see how their favorite player is doing. They probably want the show to come to a natural conclusion at the end so the viewer can feel satisfied that they've seen how things are going to turn out, without having to remember to tune in the next day (this is just my guess).
Also, it does allow them to air episodes out of order and save the most memorable for November and February sweeps. In the case of "Pyramid", it allows them to schedule the most well-known celebrities for those periods.
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The difference between the game show industry and elections in Florida: In the game show industry it's illegal to rig the outcome.
Given present situations with competitions such as Survivor and American Idol, is it such?
(One of the unpleasant offshoots of the likes of those two shows are a number of people proposing this is Charles Van Doren II.)
It's been discussed on these boards before, but in the case of "Survivor", Mark Burnett has said that he doesn't think he has to follow the same rules as a regular game show. That doesn't necessarily mean that he's rigged any of them, but there were those allegations during the first "Survivor" that he convinced two people to change their vote from Rudy to a lady named Stacey. If this is true, I think he stepped across the line.
I don't think "Survivor" is as real as some people might think (with all the editing and producer involvement with the contestants, you just don't know what's gone on behind the scenes), but maybe they should pass the law making it illegal to "manipulate" the outcome of a reality show too.
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[quote name=\'MSTieScott\' date=\'Jul 21 2004, 11:06 PM\'][quote name=\'tvwxman\' date=\'Jul 17 2004, 09:35 AM\'] Question for the game show experts in the biz...where is Liar? [/quote]
I'm no expert, but from what I saw of Liar, I'm assuming it's dead. The only way I saw it going to air was if CBS decided it was an inexpensive alternative to summer reruns.
Actually, I was surprised it even made it to pilot -- didn't we recently learn that To Tell the Truth was pretty much a dead concept in this day and age? (Not saying that's a good thing, mind you.)[/quote]
The major differences between "Liar" (which did run one [?] series in the UK) and "TTTT" were more contestants, an elimination process throughout the entire show and the studio audience deciding who's real instead of a panel. Also, the truth-teller doesn't have to have done something of note to be the Central Character--meaning that we have something related, but not exactly "TTTT"--although the fact that Fremantle owns both titles makes it an instance of legal copying. And I don't know if the people at TalkBack in the UK had "TTTT" in mind when they came up with "Liar."
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Jul 22 2004, 08:04 AM\'] Also, it does allow them to air episodes out of order and save the most memorable for November and February sweeps. In the case of "Pyramid", it allows them to schedule the most well-known celebrities for those periods. [/quote]
Wouldn't a good celebrity booker get the best celebrities to play on those episodes scheduled to air in sweeps weeks even if the episodes ran in production order?
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Good point, Fedya.
I don't think KJ will cause a boost in game-show programming. However, if this had happened a few years earlier, there's a good chance that some shows that did go into production (Pyramid, principally), would have had returning champions.