The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: jbrocato on June 27, 2004, 04:12:40 PM
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I was wondering if the switch to unlimited return visits will mean the end of the Tournament of Champions. I would think that to bring back contestants with over $600K (and counting) to play for $100K would be somewhat anticlimactic.
John Brocato
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Doesn't the tourney winner get $250K? I thought the stakes were raised when the board values doubled a few years back.
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[quote name=\'jbrocato\' date=\'Jun 27 2004, 03:12 PM\'] I was wondering if the switch to unlimited return visits will mean the end of the Tournament of Champions. I would think that to bring back contestants with over $600K (and counting) to play for $100K would be somewhat anticlimactic. [/quote]
No. They play for over double what they could win before: $250,000.
Brandon Brooks
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I believe I heard Alex mention Ken coming back for the tournament during one of his episodes.
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The next one should air November 2004, BTW.
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How are they gonna format it now that there aren't anymore undefeated champoins?
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[quote name=\'bandit_bobby\' date=\'Jun 27 2004, 05:04 PM\'] The next one should air November 2004, BTW. [/quote]
I've heard that the 2004 Tournament of Champions should lead off Season 21 of Jeopardy! (therefore airing in September) -- I believe that it was taped in March.
The 15 players: The college champs (Keith Williams and Vinita Kailasanath) followed by the next 13 best, ranked in order of wins then money.
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And since the winner wins $250,000; doesn't this remind us of Super Jeopardy?
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[quote name=\'OntarioQuizzer\' date=\'Jun 27 2004, 05:38 PM\'] [quote name=\'bandit_bobby\' date=\'Jun 27 2004, 05:04 PM\'] The next one should air November 2004, BTW. [/quote]
I've heard that the 2004 Tournament of Champions should lead off Season 21 of Jeopardy! (therefore airing in September) -- I believe that it was taped in March.
The 15 players: The college champs (Keith Williams and Vinita Kailasanath) followed by the next 13 best, ranked in order of wins then money. [/quote]
Is this still on for September? If so, It will be interesting to see how they handle it, especially if Ken is still champ when this season ends.
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[quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jun 27 2004, 06:52 PM\'] And since the winner wins $250,000; doesn't this remind us of Super Jeopardy? [/quote]
Not really. Super J! had a completely different setup.
Brandon Brooks
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There will definitely be a Tournament of Champions this year:
Ken Jennings vs. Ken Jennings vs. Ken Jennings
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[quote name=\'Brandon Brooks\' date=\'Jun 27 2004, 07:36 PM\'] [quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jun 27 2004, 06:52 PM\'] And since the winner wins $250,000; doesn't this remind us of Super Jeopardy? [/quote]
Not really. Super J! had a completely different setup.
Brandon Brooks [/quote]
Mainly for newbies......
"Super Jeopardy" was a thirteen week tournament that was set up differently than a TOC.
First, instead of 15 players, there were 36 (you read right...36!)
The 36 were then divided into three "flights": A, B, and C.
Each of the prelim games then used 4 players instead of 3.
Scoring in the first round is exactly how it is today (200-1000). Second round actually went from 500-2500, with all scoring in points, instead of dollars.
The three winners played in the fourth week of the flight for a final slot. Only here and in the final was money used.
The three flight winners then played the final for the $250,000.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Jun 27 2004, 08:47 PM\'] There will definitely be a Tournament of Champions this year:
Ken Jennings vs. Ken Jennings vs. Ken Jennings [/quote]
And yet, some poster, in a rush to get the spoiler on the board as soon as it airs, will claim that Jim won. :)
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[quote name=\'sshuffield70\' date=\'Jun 27 2004, 09:27 PM\']
The three winners played in the fourth week of the flight for a final slot. Only here and in the final was money used.
[/quote]
I don't remember this. I distinctly recall points from ep 1 to ep 13. No money on the board.
Can someone clarify?
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[quote name=\'tvwxman\' date=\'Jun 27 2004, 10:13 PM\'] [quote name=\'sshuffield70\' date=\'Jun 27 2004, 09:27 PM\']
The three winners played in the fourth week of the flight for a final slot. Only here and in the final was money used.
[/quote]
I don't remember this. I distinctly recall points from ep 1 to ep 13. No money on the board.
Can someone clarify? [/quote]
The maingame was always scored in points on SUper J!, probably because the dollars were not won by the players. ALso, recall only the winners of the games moved on to the semis or finals; there were no wild card players as in other tourneys.
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[quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jun 27 2004, 04:52 PM\'] And since the winner wins $250,000; doesn't this remind us of Super Jeopardy? [/quote]
No.
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It would be intresting to see how they handle this with Ken Jennings. The only problem I see here is if he's still champion when Season 21 starts with its T of C, Ken may be held back fron this year's tourney. When that's finished(assuming Ken's still around), he'll return to regular play untill he loses. Once that happens, then he becomes most likely the "#1 seed" going into the 2005 T of C.
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[quote name=\'Craig Karlberg\' date=\'Jun 28 2004, 01:55 AM\'] It would be intresting to see how they handle this with Ken Jennings. The only problem I see here is if he's still champion when Season 21 starts with its T of C, Ken may be held back fron this year's tourney. When that's finished(assuming Ken's still around), he'll return to regular play untill he loses. Once that happens, then he becomes most likely the "#1 seed" going into the 2005 T of C. [/quote]
I was discussing this with one of our fellow members, and it seems to me the appropriate way to handle this unlikely event would be to do it the same way they handled the $100K tournaments on the nighttime Clark Pyramid. That is, clearly Ken would be qualified to play in this season's ToC, since he's won enough to get in. Then, since he'd also be defending champion, he'd come back when regular play began, but he would have to re-qualify _as if he were a new player_. That is, from the standpoint of the 2005 ToC, he'd be starting with $0 and no wins.
(Picture how they handled Heather Davis (and lemme tell you, I wouldn't mind handling Heather Davis!) on the Pyramid and you get the idea of how I think this would be covered.)
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Would there be any merit to a handicap system in the tourney, where a player would start "in Jeopardy" based on his or her highest one day total? All players would start in the red and that would be an equilizer when competing against Ken or other big champs and prevent an early runaway.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'Jun 28 2004, 08:55 AM\'] Would there be any merit to a handicap system in the tourney, where a player would start "in Jeopardy" based on his or her highest one day total? All players would start in the red and that would be an equilizer when competing against Ken or other big champs and prevent an early runaway. [/quote]
I can see it now!
Harlow, you're going to start today's match $1200 in the red. Tylthode, you will start today $1800 in the red. Ken Jennings -- our all time champion -- you will begin today's game $80,000 in the negatives.
Seriously though, I'm not sure "Jeopardy!" would explore that avenue. Their best route may just be finding categories that Ken has trouble with. Unfortunately, HE KNOWS EVERYTHING!
The handicap is an interesting idea, though. Maybe a better equalizer would be putting peanut butter in Ken's singaling button.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Jun 28 2004, 11:42 AM\'] I was discussing this with one of our fellow members, and it seems to me the appropriate way to handle this unlikely event would be to do it the same way they handled the $100K tournaments on the nighttime Clark Pyramid. That is, clearly Ken would be qualified to play in this season's ToC, since he's won enough to get in. Then, since he'd also be defending champion, he'd come back when regular play began, but he would have to re-qualify _as if he were a new player_. That is, from the standpoint of the 2005 ToC, he'd be starting with $0 and no wins. [/quote]
It sounds like what you're saying is that a decent defending champion approaching the end of the season would be eligible for two different T's of C's, and I don't think Jeopardy would want to do that. For one thing, it gives a huge opportunity to, say, a ten-day winner whose games straddled two seasons versus a ten-game winner who had the bad timing of winning her games all in the same season.
Ken is certainly creating some interesting situations for Jeopardy to think about, but this one seems simple enough. It simplifies everything if you just say that any champion who bridges a season (or whatever the T of C cutoff point is) plays in the Tournament after his loss, whenever that may be. I think having Ken (or anybody else) play in a Tournament while still the defending champion in the regular game would be awkward for the show and confusing to many viewers.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'Jun 28 2004, 08:55 AM\'] Would there be any merit to a handicap system in the tourney, where a player would start "in Jeopardy" based on his or her highest one day total? All players would start in the red and that would be an equilizer when competing against Ken or other big champs and prevent an early runaway. [/quote]
That's ridiculous. Why should Ken have to start crippled 'cuz he's good? That's like suggesting the Yankees should be forced to spot everyone five runs going into the game.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Jun 28 2004, 01:04 PM\'] [quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'Jun 28 2004, 08:55 AM\'] Would there be any merit to a handicap system in the tourney, where a player would start "in Jeopardy" based on his or her highest one day total? All players would start in the red and that would be an equilizer when competing against Ken or other big champs and prevent an early runaway. [/quote]
That's ridiculous. Why should Ken have to start crippled 'cuz he's good? That's like suggesting the Yankees should be forced to spot everyone five runs going into the game. [/quote]
Works for me...
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And if they're against the expos, a good dozen might be a start.
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The TofC is too established an event and a sweeps period tradition. It'll never go.
And to most "J!" players, it's not so much the money, it's the bragging rights and the honor of being on that drives them in the first place--the chance to bring Ken down would be a good enough reason to participate even if the first prize was $50, a case of Trebek's wine and Sarah's old panties.
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[quote name=\'uncamark\' date=\'Jun 28 2004, 02:24 PM\'] And to most "J!" players, it's not so much the money, it's the bragging rights and the honor of being on that drives them in the first place--the chance to bring Ken down would be a good enough reason to participate even if the first prize was $50, a case of Trebek's wine and Sarah's old panties. [/quote]
Where do I sign up to win prizes like that?
While I'm at it, can someone show me the way to this forum's confessional booth?
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I have an idea as to how Jeopardy could handle the situation with Ken should it come up. This is just my opinion mind you, but I would say let him play in the tourney, and if he wins, have him retire as champ right then and there, if he doesn't, then have him keep going as champ until beaten. What do you guys think?
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[quote name=\'adamjk\' date=\'Jun 28 2004, 01:15 PM\'] I have an idea as to how Jeopardy could handle the situation with Ken should it come up. This is just my opinion mind you, but I would say let him play in the tourney, and if he wins, have him retire as champ right then and there, if he doesn't, then have him keep going as champ until beaten. What do you guys think? [/quote]
I think that is a perfectly awful idea. He should play, and continue to play, until he is defeated in regular play, which is the pledge the show made to us at the start of the season when they lifted the five-game-limit rule.
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Fair enough, I was just throwing it out there.
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Hey, it happened on "The Challengers" in 11/90 when Stan Newman
qualified for their fall TOC while still the defending champ in regular games;
he went on to win the TOC and two more shows before losing and taking
home total winnings of over $110,000+
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[quote name=\'rmfromfla\' date=\'Jun 28 2004, 06:26 PM\'] Hey, it happened on "The Challengers" in 11/90 when Stan Newman
qualified for their fall TOC while still the defending champ in regular games;
he went on to win the TOC and two more shows before losing and taking
home total winnings of over $110,000+ [/quote]
How many TofC's did the show do in its 11 months of first-run life? It seems odd to do one two months after the show aired(though a tourney every two months was the norm for both $100K Pyramid runs)
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[quote name=\'HairMetalLives\' date=\'Jun 28 2004, 11:33 AM\'] [quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'Jun 28 2004, 08:55 AM\'] Would there be any merit to a handicap system in the tourney, where a player would start "in Jeopardy" based on his or her highest one day total? All players would start in the red and that would be an equilizer when competing against Ken or other big champs and prevent an early runaway. [/quote]
I can see it now!
Harlow, you're going to start today's match $1200 in the red. Tylthode, you will start today $1800 in the red. Ken Jennings -- our all time champion -- you will begin today's game $80,000 in the negatives.
[/quote]
And Ken Jennings, you win the match with $2 in the BLACK!!! CONGRATS!
well seriously, there are two things I should ask: one is when does season 20 end to begin with? We're going into July, and at the rate he's going, I don't think he'll be beaten by the end of the season. The second question is when exactly in September should the 2004 ToC begin?
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To answer Strikerz04's querry:
Jeopardy!'s current season ends Friday, July 23.
As far as the Season 21 premiere of September 6 goes, it's anybody's guess as to whether it starts with the T of C or regular game play(except Ken himself & he's sworn to secrecy on that end).
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Actually, "The Challengers" had two TOC's: November 90' (one week
with their nine biggest winners: Maggie Baker, Ben Douglas, Mark Ryder,
Chuck Locke, Larry Kaplan, Scott Peterson; finalists: Russell Giles, Gene
Murray, and winner Stan Newman)
February 91' (winners from end of last TOC to 2/91): Nathan Walpole,
Evan Allen, Warren Harrison, Ron Martel, Mort Kamins, Rick Rorepaugh,
and finalists Julie Spickler, Chris Shea; winner Lorin Burte (this group had
less cash to win since there was no escalating "Ultimate Challenge" that
the previous champs had...)
I have no idea if there was a third and final TOC to end the series since
"The Challengers" was cancelled here a month before it finally ended; the
big winner during this time period was Ed Lander, who won $47,930.
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[quote name=\'rmfromfla\' date=\'Jun 29 2004, 07:24 AM\'] Actually, "The Challengers" had two TOC's: November 90' (one week
with their nine biggest winners: Maggie Baker, Ben Douglas, Mark Ryder,
Chuck Locke, Larry Kaplan, Scott Peterson; finalists: Russell Giles, Gene
Murray, and winner Stan Newman)
February 91' (winners from end of last TOC to 2/91): Nathan Walpole,
Evan Allen, Warren Harrison, Ron Martel, Mort Kamins, Rick Rorepaugh,
and finalists Julie Spickler, Chris Shea; winner Lorin Burte (this group had
less cash to win since there was no escalating "Ultimate Challenge" that
the previous champs had...)
I have no idea if there was a third and final TOC to end the series since
"The Challengers" was cancelled here a month before it finally ended; the
big winner during this time period was Ed Lander, who won $47,930. [/quote]
Wow, I thought I was the one who knew the most minutiae :) Were you associated with this show in some capacity?
Philly only saw the first seven weeks of the Challengers' run, as on 10/22/90, WCAU, which was airing it at 7:30PM, returned Combs Feud to the time slot.
Carlo Panno, who worked on the Challengers, reported that the last several weeks of the show's run were repeated. Some weeks of shows didn't have the date reference on the monitor behind Dick's podium when it was known the show wouldn't be back for another season, and those weeks were rerun during the late Summer 1991. THe original plan was to have a 52-week season with no repeats(would have been the first syndicated game show to do so had it occurred), and have a stand-in host for Dick a few weeks a year.
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The station in my area carried "Challengers" at 3:30 PM with very few
disruptions; next on another station at 4 was "Quiz Kids Challenge" and then
where it always has been for the last 18 years, Jeopardy at 4:30.
The one week of shows I remember that had no dates was Teacher's
Week (that might have been taped before the regular games took place).
And one note about the contestants: most of them were ex-Jeopardy players/champs, beginning with Doak Fairey; the two players who went later
to Jeopardy and had success were Howard Robinson and Mort Kamins (plus
TOC winner Lorin Burte lost in 1998 to 5xer Lara Robillard...)
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February 91' (winners from end of last TOC to 2/91): Nathan Walpole,
Evan Allen, Warren Harrison, Ron Martel, Mort Kamins, Rick Rorepaugh,
and finalists Julie Spickler, Chris Shea; winner Lorin Burte (this group had
less cash to win since there was no escalating "Ultimate Challenge" that
the previous champs had...)
It should also be noted that Mort Kamins was $otC's all-time top winner just 7 yrs before that, which included a tournament win...until the $1M CoaL came along, it made him the 3rd biggest winner of all time.
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby")
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[quote name=\'rmfromfla\' date=\'Jun 29 2004, 11:29 AM\']
And one note about the contestants: most of them were ex-Jeopardy players/champs, beginning with Doak Fairey; the two players who went later
to Jeopardy and had success were Howard Robinson and Mort Kamins (plus
TOC winner Lorin Burte lost in 1998 to 5xer Lara Robillard...) [/quote]
80s J! contestant coordinator Greg Muntean was the contestant maven on the CHallengers, so he probably used some of his J! rolodex to help recruit players.
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[quote name=\'Craig Karlberg\' date=\'Jun 28 2004, 03:55 AM\'] Once that happens, then he becomes most likely the "#1 seed" going into the 2005 T of C. [/quote]
He'll be the only seed and the automatic winner because I don't believe that dude's ever going to lose.
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[quote name=\'adamjk\' date=\'Jun 28 2004, 03:15 PM\'] I have an idea as to how Jeopardy could handle the situation with Ken should it come up. This is just my opinion mind you, but I would say let him play in the tourney, and if he wins, have him retire as champ right then and there, if he doesn't, then have him keep going as champ until beaten. What do you guys think? [/quote]
You might as well throw out the "unlimited days" rule then; because your saying that if he wins a specified game, he's done.
Next.