The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: urbanpreppie05 on June 24, 2004, 04:11:29 PM
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I was thinking about game shows, and I thought about a couple of things, five to be exact. Answer all, or 1, whatever you want!
1. Was Big Deal Really that bad? I remember watching it and not thinking it was that bad....
2. What are your thoughts on LMAD 90'? Being 8 at the time, I thought it was cool, but when I saw the 84-86 version 3 years later on the Family Channel, I was instantly hooked.
3. Has anyone else started watching Wheel of Fortune more these days? I'm actually starting to like it again.
4. And this question may be a little Horan-esque (no offense Zach) but did anyone see the TNPIR94 pilot set with Mark Kriski? Was it more faithful to the traditional set, or more similar to the 94 set?
5. Was it true that Fremantle (or whatever they were then) wanted to bring back Feud in 97?
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1. Was Big Deal Really that bad? I remember watching it and not thinking it was that bad....
Yes, it was.
2. What are your thoughts on LMAD 90'? Being 8 at the time, I thought it was cool, but when I saw the 84-86 version 3 years later on the Family Channel, I was instantly hooked.
Wasn't a bad show by any means...I think it's a bit unfairly maligned, but it was pretty good.
5. Was it true that Fremantle (or whatever they were then) wanted to bring back Feud in 97?
Was this the revival pitch I've heard about with Dolly Parton hosting?
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[quote name=\'urbanpreppie05\' date=\'Jun 24 2004, 03:11 PM\']I was thinking about game shows, and I thought about a couple of things, five to be exact. Answer all, or 1, whatever you want!
1. Was Big Deal Really that bad? I remember watching it and not thinking it was that bad....
[/quote]
I guess, like most of us, I was expecting "LMAD" and what I got instead was "BTC" on steroids with the Big Deal at the end. I'd have to watch an episode again to see if my opinions on it have changed.
2. What are your thoughts on LMAD 90'? Being 8 at the time, I thought it was cool, but when I saw the 84-86 version 3 years later on the Family Channel, I was instantly hooked.
It freshened up the show beautifully, in terms of set, new games and visual look--it's just that Bob Hilton wasn't Monty Hall and suffered by comparison, especially when Monty was coerced back to do the show near the end.
3. Has anyone else started watching Wheel of Fortune more these days? I'm actually starting to like it again.
The Mystery space and the mini-wheel for the bonus prize, in my mind, were good decisions. I'm still not wild about getting rid of returning champions. No matter what, it's still not on my priority list and never really has been--I can take it or leave it.
5. Was it true that Fremantle (or whatever they were then) wanted to bring back Feud in 97?
It was All-American at that time--and they were after Dolly Parton as host. Love Dolly, but I don't know if she's cut out to be a host--or if "Feud" would be the right format for her. I imagine she would work better with an extremely loose format.
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[quote name=\'urbanpreppie05\' date=\'Jun 24 2004, 03:11 PM\'] 3. Has anyone else started watching Wheel of Fortune more these days? I'm actually starting to like it again.
[/quote]
As Sony adds more gimmicks to the show, I continue to watch less and less. Back in 1989, I watched every night. (and in the summers, most mornings), now, I maybe watch 3 times a season.
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1. Big Deal: Any show that misspells the name of a creator of the original concept (Stefan Hados? Who's that?) deserves to get zonked. Extra points off, just for the hell of it, becaue it was a Stone-Stanley production.
2. New Deal: Don't remember it too too well, but I liked what I do remember. Gotta give Bob Hilton a little credit for trying - maybe not the grestest host, but one of my favorite announcers. Sure better than Dean Muccio or whatever the guy was. I did like the set.
3. It's probably just me, but Wheel's getting a little too plug-happy. I know, someone's gotta pay the bills somehow, but how long is it gonna be 'til people say, "I'd like an S as in Sony"?, or until Charlie O tells us that "Tonight's Bankrupt space is brought to you by American Express."
4. Just guessing, but since it was Jonathan Goodson's baby and he wanted the new Price to skew to younger viewers, the show probably used the same set it did in production. If it didn't have so much black in it, it might've worked for Barker.
5. What IS it about weatherpeople hitting the big time, anyway? Letterman, Mark Kriski, and now Rich Fields...Damn, I'm in the wrong part of the biz!
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[quote name=\'Dsmith\' date=\'Jun 24 2004, 03:40 PM\'] [quote name=\'urbanpreppie05\' date=\'Jun 24 2004, 03:11 PM\'] 3. Has anyone else started watching Wheel of Fortune more these days? I'm actually starting to like it again.
[/quote]
As Sony adds more gimmicks to the show, I continue to watch less and less. Back in 1989, I watched every night. (and in the summers, most mornings), now, I maybe watch 3 times a season. [/quote]
Same here. I like the idea of the bonus wheel and the Mystery space, but other than that, Wheel feels kinda cold nowadays.
Why am I not a Wheel Watcher now? (this might turn into a long rant)
-Too much money being thrown out for no reason. I'm not talking about the $500 house minimum, that's cool. But the $1,000 added to the bonus spin, the $100,000 bonus round, Toss-Up spins, etc. etc. etc. They're trying way too hard. I'll stick to the 1989 reruns on GSN...brings back some nostalgic feelings for me. It also seems like they're adding more and more unnecessary words to puzzles, just so they can give away more money. Keep it simple.
-Too high-tech. I can deal with the plasma scoreboards, but the video wall behind the contestants and at center stage is just unnecessary. I won't even get started on the puzzleboard. :-)
-The puzzles are simply lame and ridiculous.
I understand they have to keep the show fresh, but look at TPiR. They still use a lot of the original props that they've had from the 70s. Except for some of the music cues, it's still like watching a 70s episode, and I like that. TPiR hasn't given in to the technological era, and they shouldn't have to. Neither should Wheel. I just want a simple game show, no gimmicks, no high-tech 2040 technology. Nothing more, nothing less.
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4. And this question may be a little Horan-esque (no offense Zach) but did anyone see the TNPIR94 pilot set with Mark Kriski? Was it more faithful to the traditional set, or more similar to the 94 set?
It was essentially the same set as used for the Davidson series...both Doug and Mark's pilots were shot within a week or so of each other.
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[quote name=\'mystery7\' date=\'Jun 24 2004, 04:12 PM\']
5. What IS it about weatherpeople hitting the big time, anyway? Letterman, Mark Kriski, and now Rich Fields...Damn, I'm in the wrong part of the biz! [/quote]
HEY!
Add Sajak, Pat Finn, Kevin O Connell.....then there are sports guys like Bob Goen and Chris Harrison who have done well too....
EXACTLY why I chose local news for my path to the big leagues.
Matt
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1. As for Big Deal, they probably tried to cater to the 18-34 crowd, same
when they tried the short-lived LMAD revival last year. Plus, since Big Deal
was in the 7PM (ET) slot, it also faced the challenge of running late due to
football; oh, there was also a show on one of the other networks called
"60 Minutes" that it had to go up against.....
3. Wheel isn't the same without two of it's most famous phrases:
"Once you buy a prize it's yours to keep!"
"Gift Certificates do not include sales tax"
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[quote name=\'tvwxman\' date=\'Jun 24 2004, 06:01 PM\']HEY!
Add Sajak, Pat Finn, Kevin O Connell.....then there are sports guys like Bob Goen and Chris Harrison who have done well too....
EXACTLY why I chose local news for my path to the big leagues.
Matt[/quote]
And Matt! I knew I was gonna forget someone. Always happens.
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[quote name=\'uncamark\' date=\'Jun 24 2004, 01:30 PM\'] I imagine [Dolly Parton] would work better with an extremely loose format. [/quote]
[Woolery] I wouldn't touch that line with a forklift! [/Woolery] :)
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[quote name=\'urbanpreppie05\' date=\'Jun 24 2004, 03:11 PM\'] 3. Has anyone else started watching Wheel of Fortune more these days? I'm actually starting to like it again. [/quote]
Nope. I watch it a couple times a week, but I don't watch it religously. The Mystery Round is okay, the bonus wheel I'm impartial to.
The Toss-Ups ruin the show, in my opinion. They take away from regular gameplay; they always seem to start round 4 in "Speed Up" mode, and does everyone else notice how close Pat always is near the $5000 space when he spins?
The video walls distract me. They should bring back the old red, gold, and blue contestant backdrops (I like the diamond ones, but any of them would do). The puzzle board should have never been changed. And the new score readouts are the WORST thing I've seen since Patrick Wayne on Tic-Tac-No. If it ain't broke, DON'T FIX IT.
I also agree with whomever said that "Wheel" is to plug happy. Soon it will be [Marc Summers] something... Like this. [/Marc Summers]
PAT: "$350."
CONTESTANT: "I'll take a--
PAT: "Hold on! No, wait a seccond, Harlow, I must remind our viewers that this $350 space is brought to you buy FarceCo Autobody. Charlie?"
CONTESTANT: "I'll take a T."
PAT: "There are three T's. And remember, the letter T is brought to us today by Sand Trap Golf Superstores, where you can buy lots of tees."
How many of you would be suprised if it came to that in a few years?
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Sorry, I forgot to complain about the theme music. BRING BACK "CHANGING KEYS '89!" I realize that most of you would prefer the Thicke theme, and I like it as well, but "Changing Keys '89" is my favorite.
Those of you fans of the Thicke theme, would you prefer the current theme or any verison of "Changins Keys" as the "Wheel" theme?
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I have a few things to say about Wheel:
The compilation weeks with generic themes don't make any sense. A couple of weeks ago, I saw a show with Travel USA set pieces, and the generic theme was 'Back To The Beach'. C'mon, a city landscape and a meadow don't belong with a beach theme. I'd like to see more theme weeks, like European Holiday Week, South America Week, British Isles Week, Orient Escape Week, Police & Firefighters Week, Bachelors/Bachelorettes Week, and Sports Fans Week.
I can't believe the $100K being missed several times this season. Can't they have better odds for this huge prize? I am getting sick of people winning the same $25K over and over.
The SPIN I.D. graphic takes up valuable puzzle time. When Charlie says the spin ID # and the info, it takes too much time. Put the SPIN ID # and rules during the prize puzzle description just like Wheel Watchers info during the contestant intros.
The bonus prizes have become a little bit cheaper. I really miss Wheel giving away expensive Cadillacs and Lincolns. But VW Beetles with no turbo engines, no way!
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[quote name=\'tmq800\' date=\'Jun 24 2004, 06:54 PM\'] I have a few things to say about Wheel:
The compilation weeks with generic themes don't make any sense. A couple of weeks ago, I saw a show with Travel USA set pieces, and the generic theme was 'Back To The Beach'. C'mon, a city landscape and a meadow don't belong with a beach theme. I'd like to see more theme weeks, like European Holiday Week, South America Week, British Isles Week, Orient Escape Week, Police & Firefighters Week, Bachelors/Bachelorettes Week, and Sports Fans Week.
I can't believe the $100K being missed several times this season. Can't they have better odds for this huge prize? I am getting sick of people winning the same $25K over and over.
The SPIN I.D. graphic takes up valuable puzzle time. When Charlie says the spin ID # and the info, it takes too much time. Put the SPIN ID # and rules during the prize puzzle description just like Wheel Watchers info during the contestant intros.
The bonus prizes have become a little bit cheaper. I really miss Wheel giving away expensive Cadillacs and Lincolns. But VW Beetles with no turbo engines, no way! [/quote]
If you watch the show, why do you always wonder what happens in it?
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[quote name=\'JayC\' date=\'Jun 24 2004, 07:02 PM\'] [quote name=\'tmq800\' date=\'Jun 24 2004, 06:54 PM\'] I have a few things to say about Wheel:
[/quote]
Who here is absolutely STUNNED that tmq actually gave us a post full of wheel opinion, instead of his usual (who won/how much/why hasn't steve posted) drivel???
I'm floored. Is there a full moon out?
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[quote name=\'urbanpreppie05\' date=\'Jun 24 2004, 03:11 PM\']
[/quote]
1. Was Big Deal Really that bad? I remember watching it and not thinking it was that bad....
It's bad if you were expecting a faithful remake of LMAD, and the only parts of Big Deal that had any REAL resemblance to LMAD were the "zonks" and the "Big Deal" with 3 screens (instead of 3 big doors). Other than that, the contestants were put through stupid stunts (for example, an Elvis impersonator contest, complete with guest judge Wink Martindale, and the Big Deal opera lady was somehow involved in another stunt) Mark DeCarlo (SOTC champ and Studs host) was as much Monty Hall as Pat Finn was Jack Barry.
What are your thoughts on LMAD 90'?
I liked it! Bob Hilton gave Deal his best shot, but as Hilton told us at GSC9, Monty just wasn't happy with the way Bob was doing the show. Monty intended on auditioning other hosts, but against his will, ended up doing the show himself. Monty said he never intended to do Deal himself, but the O and O's basically told him that either he host it himself, or no more LMAD. Monty knew how to be the "big dealer", the guy that you see on the street and says "Hey bud... come 'ere!" and you just don't know if you can trust him. Hilton, to me, just went through the motions. I think the newest revival of LMAD did the "Monty handing over the mike" transition well. Billy Bush was the new host, but Monty definitely was not forgotten, as his face appeared during the show's intro, and Monty had intended to do guest spots (as opposed to an entire show) and I liked LMAD in an hourlong format.
3. Has anyone else started watching Wheel of Fortune more these days?
Not me, personally. Yeah, it can be a hoot to watch once in a while, but even with the new wrinkles they keep adding, it doesn't make me want to watch every day anymore. I think next time Wheel does a retro week, they should somehow get Chuck Woolery involved and let him guest host. If Lingo doesn't get renewed, Chuck just might be interested! After all, Monty returned to LMAD, Dawson returned to Feud, Peter Marshall did HS, Geoff Edwards returned to Jackpot, so I think it would be appropriate for Chuck to come back to Wheel, even if it's just for one show.
did anyone see the TNPIR94 pilot set with Mark Kriski? Was it more faithful to the traditional set, or more similar to the 94 set?
Based on the intro for Davidson's TPIR, the pilot probably had spotlights around the curtains (a la the TPIR Specials in 86) but for some reason those spotlights were not used for the series. I have a clip of Kriski doing funny bits during his weather forecasts, and also with him on the set of TPIR, and I think he would've made for a better host, based on what I saw. He obviously wanted the gig badly.
5. Was it true that Fremantle (or whatever they were then) wanted to bring back Feud in 97?
As mentioned before, Dolly Parton did a pilot, but the results were less than satisfactory. When we talked with Kevin (forget his last name) who produced MG 98 and other Wolpert shows at GSC9, he commented that set was still being designed, but the original set resembled a boxing arena and they were still deciding what to do with the theme music (whether to revive it with the familiar theme or do a remix that was reminiscent of the original theme). My guess on why they did a pilot with Dolly Parton was to give the show the "country twang" feel that the Dawson version had. Instead, they went with a cold silver and blue set and Louie Anderson.
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[quote name=\'whewfan\' date=\'Jun 24 2004, 07:07 PM\'] I think next time Wheel does a retro week, they should somehow get Chuck Woolery involved and let him guest host. [/quote]
Or Bob Goen & Rolf Burnbrenner or whatever his name is! [rim shot]
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[quote name=\'HairMetalLives\' date=\'Jun 24 2004, 07:13 PM\'] [quote name=\'whewfan\' date=\'Jun 24 2004, 07:07 PM\'] I think next time Wheel does a retro week, they should somehow get Chuck Woolery involved and let him guest host. [/quote]
Or Bob Goen & Rolf Burnbrenner or whatever his name is! [rim shot] [/quote]
Is "Benirschke" really that hard to spell ? : )
-Joe R.
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[quote name=\'urbanpreppie05\' date=\'Jun 24 2004, 01:11 PM\'] 1. Was Big Deal Really that bad?
[/quote]
Yes.
2. What are your thoughts on LMAD 90'?
Never saw it. Like many markets, mine ran morning news instead.
3. Has anyone else started watching Wheel of Fortune more these days?
Nope. Blows as much as it has for many many years.
4. And this question may be a little Horan-esque (no offense Zach) but did anyone see the TNPIR94 pilot set with Mark Kriski?
No.
5. Was it true that Fremantle (or whatever they were then) wanted to bring back Feud in 97?
No idea. That was during my ATGS hiatus.
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1. Big Deal... (gag!)... I think I remember seeing it.. with this one time where someone was smashing a car up.. I think. Of course the stunts on that show were like that anyway. It sucked!
2. LMAD '90? Well, I liked the video wall on the set and the fact they were using a remix of the 84-86 theme.. but Bob Hilton should stick to announcing.
Heck, when Family aired LMAD 84-86, I thought they were airing the 1990 version, because their sets were fairly similar.. although there was no video wall in the 84-86 version
I don't remember hearing the announcer in the 1990 version, but my bet is he was no Brian Cummings or Dean Goss.
P.S.:
BTW, is it Score Productions who did the 84-86 LMAD theme?
3. Ugh! WOF isn't as good these days.. Bring back returning champs and give away that $100K sometime! The show's winnings pale now against Jeopardy!(especially with Ken Jennings winning more than $550K!)
I also wish they'd give away more than just trips as prizes in the front game.
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Based on the intro for Davidson's TPIR, the pilot probably had spotlights around the curtains (a la the TPIR Specials in 86) but for some reason those spotlights were not used for the series.
The only other thing I know they used on the pilot - instead of the range finder they built for TnPIR in the showcase (which I thought was cool) they used the traditional Range Game prop, which meant more finer markings for the dollar amounts, but no great range in values like Davidson's eventual board had.
-Jason
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I don't remember hearing the announcer in the 1990 version, but my bet is he was no Brian Cummings or Dean Goss.
That'd be a guy named Dean Muccio, and no, he was no Brian Cummings or Dean Goss. But he did do one other show that I know of, which was Family Secrets in about 1993. Bob Eubanks thing with a very short life on NBC.
P.S.: BTW, is it Score Productions who did the 84-86 LMAD theme?
No, but an incredible simulation. Todd Thicke (Alan's brother) and Sheldon Allman did all the music for the '80s run.
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[quote name=\'mystery7\' date=\'Jun 24 2004, 10:34 PM\']
I don't remember hearing the announcer in the 1990 version, but my bet is he was no Brian Cummings or Dean Goss.
That'd be a guy named Dean Muccio... he did do one other show that I know of, which was Family Secrets in about 1993. [/quote]
I believe it's Nuccio, and he also did "That's My Dog!" on the Family Channel from 1993(or 1992?)-1994.
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[quote name=\'HairMetalLives\' date=\'Jun 25 2004, 01:15 AM\'] [quote name=\'mystery7\' date=\'Jun 24 2004, 10:34 PM\']
I don't remember hearing the announcer in the 1990 version, but my bet is he was no Brian Cummings or Dean Goss.
That'd be a guy named Dean Muccio... he did do one other show that I know of, which was Family Secrets in about 1993. [/quote]
I believe it's Nuccio, and he also did "That's My Dog!" on the Family Channel from 1993(or 1992?)-1994. [/quote]
Nope it was with an M. I think it was Mucchio.
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One notable thing that bugs me about Wheel of Fortune nowadays is that "condensed screen" thing they frequently do during the contestant introductions, either for ads or to promote S.P.I.N. It's not so much that they condense the screen so much that bothers me, but that they do it for the person who wins the first toss-up puzzle. I mean, for the winner to be the one who gets the small screen... almost makes it seem not worth it to try to win that first toss-up puzzle, considering the losers get the "luxury full screen" treatment.
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[quote name=\'mystery7\' date=\'Jun 24 2004, 11:34 PM\']
P.S.: BTW, is it Score Productions who did the 84-86 LMAD theme?
No, but an incredible simulation. Todd Thicke (Alan's brother) and Sheldon Allman did all the music for the '80s run.[/quote]
Score Productions has The All New Let's Make A Deal listed in their credits section.
http://www.scoreproductions.com/FCredit.html (http://\"http://www.scoreproductions.com/FCredit.html\")
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I thought The Big Deal was fine, as long as you didn't look at it and say "This is supposed to be LMaD?!?!?". TJW90 Syndrome, IMO
I've made many comments lately against the current state of Wheel. Way too many distractions from the actual game, too many plugs, and "team weeks"??? C'mon...If you're not smart enough to play WoF by yourself, you don't even need to be there.
As for the plugs, if you can't afford to give away so much money without the plugs, stop giving away so much. WoF got a serious case of Mo' Money syndrome and they need to stop. Returning champs would be nice, but we all know that's slowly becoming a thing of the past....Though maybe Mr. Jennings' J! run will do something to alter that.
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I haven't watched "Wheel" regularly for years. I'll catch it occasionally, especially season premieres and such, but there's usually more important things to do at 7 p.m.
As for "Big Deal", I guess I'm in the minority but I didn't think it was too bad.
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I probably should explain why I watch wheel more-
Granted, I don't watch anything every day-I'm lucky to watch TPIR, my favorite show, once a week. But usually at 7 p.m. every night, I'm sitting at home doing laundry, or getting ready to leave again. So I watch wheel. And Doggone it, I'm hooked again! Here's why:
-The set/theme. I think the new set is amazing. Wheel and J! can get away with frequent updates because they're, well, Wheel and J! I could never see a high tech set on TPIR. As for the theme, I have really grown to love this one. I really like hearing it when there are wins, and when Vanna and Charlie are describing the prizes that could be won. If you take the theme by itself, it sounds good, but of course, It pales in comparison to Big Wheels and Changing Keys.
-SOME of the mini-games. The Mystery round is cool. I like how they don't just offer cars. The Jackpot round is cool, but rarely won. I don't like the Prize Puzzle, though.
-The Tossups. I think only 2 would be ok, but IMHO, these are great ways to start the show.
-The bonus round change. Best change ever. 25 more times exciting than the old one- because of the big prize and the nicer smaller ones as well.
Granted, Wheel will never be at it's zenith as it was back in the 80s/90s, but i'm liking it again.
BTW, This is turning out to be a really responsive post! Keep it up people!
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[quote name=\'Frank15\' date=\'Jun 25 2004, 01:57 AM\'] almost makes it seem not worth it to try to win that first toss-up puzzle, considering the losers get the "luxury full screen" treatment. [/quote]
Yeah, screw the thousand bucks, I want my mug full-sized!
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2. I've liked every version of the LMaD I've seen, and this was no exception. It was the very first one I saw, and though I don't remember a ton about it, I did think it was funny that adults dressed up as chickens.
3. I actually am watching Wheel more than ever before. I don't mind the Prize Puzzles or any Special Rounds, but I don't like the fact that they have all of them on every day. I would like them to be more like the Prize Puzzles, happening once or twice a week, if at all. I think that would take out some of the "going through the motions" feel it's had the past year.
I don't remember the exact date I saw IT, but I'll never forget the day. I watched another person win $35,000+ in the front game, and another twenty-five grand in the bonus round. I shook my head and thought, 'Wow, what's even the point of the bonus round when you can win more of the front game?' I coughed, and started having trouble breathing, but I quickly shook it off. The next day, I watched again. This time the contestant lost the bonus round, and with it $50,000. "So what,' I thought, 'at least it wasn't the 100 grand. That would have been bad.' More coughing soon followed. My eyes widened with the sudden realization that IT was there...
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[quote name=\'STYDfan\' date=\'Jun 25 2004, 02:08 PM\']
I don't remember the exact date I saw IT, but I'll never forget the day. I watched another person win $35,000+ in the front game, and another twenty-five grand in the bonus round. I shook my head and thought, 'Wow, what's even the point of the bonus round when you can win more of the front game?' I coughed, and started having trouble breathing, but I quickly shook it off. The next day, I watched again. This time the contestant lost the bonus round, and with it $50,000. "So what,' I thought, 'at least it wasn't the 100 grand. That would have been bad.' More coughing soon followed. My eyes widened with the sudden realization that IT was there... [/quote]
Huh? Is IT a seizure you were having?
Sorry, but after reading your post, I don't get IT.
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As mentioned before, Dolly Parton did a pilot, but the results were less than satisfactory.
Dolly may have done runthrus in the office for them, but she never did a pilot.
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[quote name=\'rmfromfla\' date=\'Jun 24 2004, 05:24 PM\'] 3. Wheel isn't the same without two of it's most famous phrases:
"Once you buy a prize it's yours to keep!"
"Gift Certificates do not include sales tax"[/quote]
Merv still did the right thing 15 years ago--to most people, cash and only luxury prizes win out over ceramic dalmations every time.
And the fact that "Wheel" has lasted almost 17 years after the end of shopping on the syndication version proves that Lin Bolen was wrong--the game is strong enough on its own that it doesn't need the shopping gimmick.
(However, if Merrill Heatter had been in her office that day before Merv, she would've probably wanted to add shopping to "High Rollers.")
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[quote name=\'tvwxman\' date=\'Jun 25 2004, 02:37 PM\'] Huh? Is IT a seizure you were having?
Sorry, but after reading your post, I don't get IT. [/quote]
Actually, IT was Mo' Money Syndrome, OR the end of my prospective writing career. Either one seems to work here.