The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: TLEberle on May 16, 2004, 04:05:30 AM
-
On the old 'Concentration.' if you matched a prize (for example, a stove) with a wild card, only those two pieces would be turned around; the other stove card would still be out there, a sitting duck, never to be matched. What happens if you pick the stove and other wild card on the same turn?
I bring it up because every other version of the show seems to have figured out a way around this: the box game has one wild card, Classic reveals both pieces, but not the oldest one.
-TL
-
Not sure about the original Concentration, but I DO remember in later versions when a prize is matched up with a wild card, the original matching prize is ALSO revealed, thus avoiding the so-called "leftover" pieces on the board.
Speaking of wild cards, I also remember that if a player matched 2 Wild Cards, s/he wins a cash bonus. I think it was a $500 bonus on Classic Concentration. Not sure about the earlier versions.
-
[quote name=\'Craig Karlberg\' date=\'May 16 2004, 01:24 AM\'] Not sure about the original Concentration, but I DO remember in later versions when a prize is matched up with a wild card, the original matching prize is ALSO revealed, thus avoiding the so-called "leftover" pieces on the board.
Speaking of wild cards, I also remember that if a player matched 2 Wild Cards, s/he wins a cash bonus. I think it was a $500 bonus on Classic Concentration. Not sure about the earlier versions. [/quote]
Thank you for repeating exactly what he said in the last line. GEEZ!
But seriously folks, I believe the extra piece simply went unmatched, and could either be matched up with the OTHER Wild Card (in which case two of that prize would be in circulation), or it would just sit and rot until everything else was matched off, and then they would be turned around to reveal the rest of the puzzle for that One Last Guess.
-
In response to TLEberle's question below that started this thread:
On the old 'Concentration.' if you matched a prize (for example, a stove) with a wild card, only those two pieces would be turned around; the other stove card would still be out there, a sitting duck, never to be matched. What happens if you pick the stove and other wild card on the same turn?
TL, I'm old enough to remember the original edition of Concentration (with the 30-box board), so I can tell you that in this situation, you'd get a second stove on your side of the board!
Theoretically, you could also win two cars (or whatever that game's most valuable prize was) via this method, or, for that matter, two of any of the other prizes in that game -- although my most remembered game in which this event happened was one in which the contestant ended up with two "Fireflies," one of that game's "gag" prizes that they would have to lessen the pain of matching up any two of the board's six "Forfeit 1 Gift" cards.
Other notes: Late in the NBC run of the show (1958-73), turning around both "Wild Cards" in a player's turn won him/her a new car, plus the chance to turn around two additional numbers for prizes to match with the two "Wild Cards," after which they would go up on the player's prize board. (Pity the player, though, who would turn over a game card for say, a new car, followed by any one of the board's "Forfeit 1 Gift" cards that would immediately send that prize over to the opponent's prize board!)
Also, if the last two boxes on the game board contained non-matching prizes, the player who uncovered the game's last matching pair would have the last chance to guess the puzzle. If he/she failed, the other player would have the last guess of the game, and if that guess failed, the game would end in a tie. (The box game rules, but not those of the studio game, allowed the un-matched prize cards to be removed for a final guess by both players in this situation.)
Michael Brandenburg
(Of course now, if the show were still on the air today with the "gag" prizes and the "Forfeit" cards, one of the "gag" prizes for a game might be "500 Cicadas"!)
-
[quote name=\'Michael Brandenburg\' date=\'May 16 2004, 07:02 AM\'] (Of course now, if the show were still on the air today with the "gag" prizes and the "Forfeit" cards, one of the "gag" prizes for a game might be "500 Cicadas"!) [/quote]
Chris Lemon would call this a case of "Mo' Cicada Syndrome."
-
I don't believe this was mentioned yet, but those rarely used extra columns to the sides of the regular prize boards helped denote a "second" of the prize. A checkmark would be slid in next to the first stove, for example, if that contestant had two. Otherwise, another "stove" card would slide in on the other player's board.
-Jason
-
[quote name=\'DrBear\' date=\'May 16 2004, 07:11 AM\'] [quote name=\'Michael Brandenburg\' date=\'May 16 2004, 07:02 AM\'] (Of course now, if the show were still on the air today with the "gag" prizes and the "Forfeit" cards, one of the "gag" prizes for a game might be "500 Cicadas"!) [/quote]
Chris Lemon would call this a case of "Mo' Cicada Syndrome." [/quote]
No, I think that's just the right amount of cicaidas for a gag prize. :)
-
[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'May 16 2004, 04:46 AM\'] But seriously folks, I believe the extra piece simply went unmatched, and could either be matched up with the OTHER Wild Card (in which case two of that prize would be in circulation), or it would just sit and rot until everything else was matched off, and then they would be turned around to reveal the rest of the puzzle for that One Last Guess. [/quote]
Chris is right... I remember that Mr. Downs or Mr. Clayton would display the final two prizes to prove that they didn't match and then have them swing around to reveal the entire puzzle.
-
One other aspect of the tie games...on the network version, the players could carry over up to three prizes for the second game. That made things a little dicey because a Forfeit could even zap you on the first match of the game.
The checkmarks were never used on the Narz version, though, and they just put up a duplicate prize card.
-
I really loved the 1973 "Concentration". The music and wild mirrored set design really kicked the show into the new decade. But....
It's just amazing the infrastructure that made it from New York to Los Angeles when Goodson-Todman decided to produce "Concentration" out there. We have heard the stories from Chris Clementson and Mark Bowerman and others about rebuilding the old-style electromechanical game boards and other ephemera... you think that Ted Cooper could have come up with more imaginative ways to do things on that show, given his track record.
BTW, I've seen still frames from the Orson Bean pilot of "Concentration" from the mid-1980's... correct me if I'm wrong, but does anyone know if Steve Ryan was creating the rebuses for that version as well? And the artwork on the puzzles shown there really look like they're still the work of Bernie Schmittke who worked on every single version of "Concentration".
-
Building on what has been said before:
If after all the pieces of the puzzle had been revealed, and both players didn't answer correctly, both players stuck around for a brand new game. They were each permitted to keep up to three of the prizes they had earned. If they had only prize, too bad, that was the only one you carried forward, even if it was a zonk type of prize.
NEW QUESTION:
Did Goodson-Todman produce the Downs-Clayton version?
ANOTHER QUESTION:
Any thoughts as to why Bob Clayton never got another hosting gig? I thought he was pretty good. Was he respected in the industry?
-
[quote name=\'Jim\' date=\'May 16 2004, 10:34 PM\'] Building on what has been said before:
If after all the pieces of the puzzle had been revealed, and both players didn't answer correctly, both players stuck around for a brand new game. They were each permitted to keep up to three of the prizes they had earned. If they had only prize, too bad, that was the only one you carried forward, even if it was a zonk type of prize.
NEW QUESTION:
Did Goodson-Todman produce the Downs-Clayton version?
ANOTHER QUESTION:
Any thoughts as to why Bob Clayton never got another hosting gig? I thought he was pretty good. Was he respected in the industry? [/quote]
I belive the 1958-1973 version was run by NBC, not Goodson-Toddman
Sadly, Bob Clayton died around 1979.
-Joe R.
-
Ira Skutch, who directed the Narz version, told me that version of Concentration was done on the sparest of budgets. That's why they were giving away bottom-end Chevys and taped at Metromedia. They did spend money having a new controller for the board built, but with the old game board and slips arriving lock, stock and barrel from New York, what else would you have done differently with 1973 technology?
-
[quote name=\'JRaygor\' date=\'May 16 2004, 11:21 PM\']
Any thoughts as to why Bob Clayton never got another hosting gig? I thought he was pretty good. Was he respected in the industry? [/QUOTE]
I belive the 1958-1973 version was run by NBC, not Goodson-Toddman
Sadly, Bob Clayton died around 1979.
-Joe R. [/quote]
Barry-Enright produced Concentration early on, but NBC picked the rights to it after the scandals. NBC hired G-T to produce the two Hollywood-based versions on Concentration.
CLayton didn't get another hosting gig(unless he did a pilot after the original Concentration went bye-bye), but Bob STewart thought enough of Clayton to give announcing gigs on several shows for the last few years of his life(Pyramid, Blankety Blanks, Shoot for the Stars, Pass the Buck)
-
someone correct me if necessary, but I thought NBC purchased the rights to B&E's game shows previous to the scandals, due to their success, for right around two million. Just like CBS purchased WML? and possibly IGAS from G-T for, among other reasons, tax breaks. In the radio days, CBS lured many top NBC stars to the struggling web with the promises of setting up financial plans that helped protect the stars and/or their production companies from paying too much in taxes.
-
[quote name=\'The Ol' Guy\' date=\'May 17 2004, 10:17 AM\']someone correct me if necessary, but I thought NBC purchased the rights to B&E's game shows previous to the scandals, due to their success, for right around two million. Just like CBS purchased WML? and possibly IGAS from G-T for, among other reasons, tax breaks. In the radio days, CBS lured many top NBC stars to the struggling web with the promises of setting up financial plans that helped protect the stars and/or their production companies from paying too much in taxes.[/quote]
That is correct--in fact, they bought the whole company, making it easy for them to ease Barry and Enright out after the scandals broke.
-
According to Steve Ryan's "CC" book. The reason why the WILD! cards also showed the natural match was to speed the game up (Same reason why it was only 25 squares)
Small q: How many eps of the 58-73 version exist ? (Not neccesarly on the circuit)
-Joe R.
-
[quote name=\'JRaygor\' date=\'May 17 2004, 04:18 PM\'] Small q: How many eps of the 58-73 version exist ? (Not neccesarly on the circuit)
[/quote]
I'm told there are dozens and dozens of them in the Library of Congress. Apparently NBC donated a ton of early radio and TV to the LoC which, not surprisingly, has done very little with it.
UCLA has twelve, including several regular shows from March, 1971 and several other Challenge of Champions episodes that have made their way into the circuit.
Speaking of the circuit, if there are any more than eight available to collectors, I'd sure like to know about them!
-
[quote name=\'uncamark\' date=\'May 17 2004, 01:02 PM\'] [quote name=\'The Ol' Guy\' date=\'May 17 2004, 10:17 AM\']someone correct me if necessary, but I thought NBC purchased the rights to B&E's game shows previous to the scandals, due to their success, for right around two million. Just like CBS purchased WML? and possibly IGAS from G-T for, among other reasons, tax breaks. In the radio days, CBS lured many top NBC stars to the struggling web with the promises of setting up financial plans that helped protect the stars and/or their production companies from paying too much in taxes.[/quote]
That is correct--in fact, they bought the whole company, making it easy for them to ease Barry and Enright out after the scandals broke. [/quote]
That's not my recollection. Everything I've read has said NBC bought the four B&E shows in the midst of quiz-rigging allegations for the purported reason of allowing B&E to have more time to defend themselves against the charges against them (or words to that effect).
Twenty One and Tic Tac Dough were the two rigged B&E shows. Concentration was supposedly not rigged. I've never heard one way or the other whether Dough Re Mi was rigged (as if anyone cares about Dough Re Mi).
-
[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'May 17 2004, 01:52 AM\'] Ira Skutch, who directed the Narz version, told me that version of Concentration was done on the sparest of budgets. That's why they were giving away bottom-end Chevys and taped at Metromedia. They did spend money having a new controller for the board built, but with the old game board and slips arriving lock, stock and barrel from New York, what else would you have done differently with 1973 technology? [/quote]
Ah yes! I think Johnny Olson described it thusly, right before the first commercial break: "Right you are, Jack! It's the Vega Hatchback! The little car that does everything well! Rides comfortably, corners flat. Comes equipped with radio and heater. The Vega, from Chevrolet!"
I think the radio ANTENNA was an option. Never mind 8-track players.
That was a big deal to have a HEATER in a car. Of course, when that 140cc aluminum engine burned up - which a lot of Vegas apparently did - there was plenty of heat to be had.
-
[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'May 17 2004, 12:52 AM\'] Ira Skutch, who directed the Narz version, told me that version of Concentration was done on the sparest of budgets. That's why they were giving away bottom-end Chevys and taped at Metromedia. They did spend money having a new controller for the board built, but with the old game board and slips arriving lock, stock and barrel from New York, what else would you have done differently with 1973 technology? [/quote]
Concentration may have been a low-budget show relative to network games, but it was pretty high-budget for a syndie strip from that era. Compared to the other five-a-week syndicated games from that fall:
What's My Line?
To Tell the Truth
Truth or Consequences
Beat the Clock
The Narz version looked pretty good. (Dealer's Choice set the bar a little higher a few months later, albeit with an endgame prize that very few people could actually use). I'll admit some of the prizes on the board were pretty chintzy, however.
Pity no one thought of the Trebek endgame for the Narz version -- would have saved a lot of expense on puzzle creation, and they could have loaded up the board with cheaper prizes.
-
Concentration may have been a low-budget show relative to network games, but it was pretty high-budget for a syndie strip from that era. Compared to the other five-a-week syndicated games from that fall:
What's My Line?
To Tell the Truth
Truth or Consequences
Beat the Clock
I dunno, I thought at least two of the shows on your list (TTTT and ToC) had a bit higher production values, but for the most part, the show came when game shows were still relatively low budget and reeling from the 60s (see: ABC PW, etc)
-Jason
-
UCLA has twelve, including several regular shows from March, 1971 and several other Challenge of Champions episodes that have made their way into the circuit.
Speaking of the circuit, if there are any more than eight available to collectors, I'd sure like to know about them!
I guess another question would be: do any of these exist in color?
-
Concentration may have been a low-budget show relative to network games, but it was pretty high-budget for a syndie strip from that era.
Vintage Concentration was more labor-intensive than it may have seemed. Aside from prize acquisition there were those full-time puzzle artists and the creation of board cards and slips for every prize, in addition to the labor involved in keeping the board loaded in the studio. Shooting at unionized Metromedia added to the cost as well.
-
[quote name=\'calliaume\' date=\'May 17 2004, 09:05 PM\']Pity no one thought of the Trebek endgame for the Narz version -- would have saved a lot of expense on puzzle creation, and they could have loaded up the board with cheaper prizes.[/quote]
Of course, with the mechanical board the Trebek endgame wouldn't really have been possible. They had enough trouble keeping the board running as it was; imagine trying to keep it running at the lightning speed that endgame required.
On the other hand, one wonders if the idea for the Trebek endgame had, perhaps, originated in the Narz years but was abandoned for this very reason, only to be resurrected years later.
-
Might as well ask this too: How eps of Narz "Concentraiton" exist ? I know full one and a 1/4th of another ep exist in the circuit (Where Narz wears a VERY loud jacket)
I noticed Narz's version had more special bonuses than the other versions with features like "Bonus Pick" and "Free Look". Were other bonuses tried on the show ?
Didn't Trebek J! in the early years tape at Metromedia ?
-Joe R.
-
[quote name=\'JRaygor\' date=\'May 18 2004, 11:23 AM\']Didn't Trebek J! in the early years tape at Metromedia ?[/quote]
The first year--they then moved across the street to KTLA (the part of the lot then controlled by Hollywood Center), then over to the main Hollywood Center lot when the second set was introduced, and then Sony in the mid-90s.
-
That was a big deal to have a HEATER in a car.
Elaine Stewart thought it was a big deal to have a Heatter in her car, too. :-D
Chuck Donegan (The Comedic "Chuckie Baby")
-
Of course, with the mechanical board the Trebek endgame wouldn't really have been possible. They had enough trouble keeping the board running as it was; imagine trying to keep it running at the lightning speed that endgame required.
They could have rigged something up with slide projectors a la the Blockbusters I board, but it would have been a kluge and I don't think they wanted to go to such elaborate lengths when Double Play sufficed.
Elaine Stewart thought it was a big deal to have a Heatter in her car, too.
Go to your room.
-
[quote name=\'Craig Karlberg\' date=\'May 16 2004, 03:24 AM\'] Not sure about the original Concentration, but I DO remember in later versions when a prize is matched up with a wild card, the original matching prize is ALSO revealed, thus avoiding the so-called "leftover" pieces on the board.
Speaking of wild cards, I also remember that if a player matched 2 Wild Cards, s/he wins a cash bonus. I think it was a $500 bonus on Classic Concentration. Not sure about the earlier versions. [/quote]
On CC, if 2 wild cards were matched, that was worth a $500 cash bonus, but if the 3rd was picked on that same turn, that was worth another $500 cash bonus, bringing the total cash bonus to $1,000.
In addition, that meant you could remove FIVE pieces to the puzzle, instead of just three.
And, that was done on the premiere of CC, BTW. Go to this site and see how it was done:
http://www.geocities.com/classicconcentration (http://\"http://www.geocities.com/classicconcentration\")
-
Finding 3 WILD cards in 1 turn is VERY hard to do. In fact, with no squares removed beforehand, the odds of doing just that is 1 in 4,567 Very long odds but it was done back on May 4, 1987. What a WILD day that was!
-
Even finding just two Wild Cards on one turn was very hard. I remember watching the Narz version when it originally aired, and he always stated finding both Wild Cards would result in a $500 bonus. I kept waiting for it to happen - I only remember it happening once during the five years his version was on the air.
-
[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'May 18 2004, 08:01 AM\'] I guess another question would be: do any of these exist in color?
[/quote]
The 6 episodes from 1971 in the UCLA Archives appear to be in color, and I know for certain that the finale survives in color at the Museum of Television and Radio in Los Angeles.
(Sorry for the bump, BTW)
-
The 1971 episodes that UCLA have are actually B&W off-air recordings, from a series of reels recorded on an old reel-to-reel video tape recorder, in a now-obsolete format.
-Kevin
-
[quote name=\'TwoInchQuad\' date=\'Jun 18 2004, 10:48 AM\'] The 1971 episodes that UCLA have are actually B&W off-air recordings, from a series of reels recorded on an old reel-to-reel video tape recorder, in a now-obsolete format.
-Kevin [/quote]
Thanks for correcting me, as the UCLA catalog entry was vague.