The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: pyrfan on April 26, 2004, 05:15:10 PM
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Looking back on "Match Game/Hollywood Squares Hour's" first week on the air, I have to say that they didn't exactly launch it with a lot of star power. I know that big, big stars have never been a mainstay of game shows in general, but they could have upped the wattage a little bit for the premiere week.
Take another look at that week's guests: Twyla Littleton, Bill Daily, Barbi Benton, Jimmie Walker, Alison Arngrim, Skip Stephenson, Tom Villard, and -- in the center square -- Phil Proctor. Not to take anything away from Phil, who is a very talented comedian and actor, but I can't help but think that many people across America watched that first episode and, upon seeing the center square, uttered "Phil who?" The closest things to household names on the panel were Jimmie Walker and Barbi Benton (but most people probably know her as Hugh Hefner's one-time paramour and nothing else). I'd never heard of Twyla before (or since); Alison, Jimmie, and Bill had been in successful series in the past but weren't on anything at the time. The only two people on the panel who had regular series gigs were Tom, then on "We Got It Made," and Skip, whose "Real People" had long ago ceased to be hot.
Don't get me wrong -- I loved discovering new faces on MGHS and on other game shows. MGHS was the first place I ever saw Arsenio Hall, Edie McClurg, and others. And with format and host problems, I don't know if the show would have had a long run anyway, but I think they could have put a lot more thought into their guests for the opening week. If it were me, I would have tried to get semi-big-name guests who had played previous incarnations of both games, like Bonnie Franklin, Dr. Joyce Brothers, Betty White, Edward Asner, and others.
What does everyone else think?
Brendan
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My first thought when seeing Phil Proctor was "Where's Bergman??!!??" :) When it comes right down to it, in 1983, nothing could stop the juggernaut called "General Hospital." I don't know if bigger stars would have made a difference.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'Apr 26 2004, 05:02 PM\']My first thought when seeing Phil Proctor was "Where's Bergman??!!??" :) When it comes right down to it, in 1983, nothing could stop the juggernaut called "General Hospital." I don't know if bigger stars would have made a difference.[/quote]
And ultimately, the show was just one big placeholder for "Santa Barbara," even if NBC wouldn't admit it back then. Probably having Cosby, Michael J. Fox, Ted Danson, Shelley Long, Daniel J. Travanti and Michael Conrad (from the killer NBC Thursday night lineup of the time) on the same week wouldn't have made any difference in the ratings--as if it would've ever happened.
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[quote name=\'pyrfan\' date=\'Apr 26 2004, 04:15 PM\'] Looking back on "Match Game/Hollywood Squares Hour's" first week on the air, I have to say that they didn't exactly launch it with a lot of star power. I know that big, big stars have never been a mainstay of game shows in general, but they could have upped the wattage a little bit for the premiere week.
Take another look at that week's guests: Twyla Littleton, Bill Daily, Barbi Benton, Jimmie Walker, Alison Arngrim, Skip Stephenson, Tom Villard, and -- in the center square -- Phil Proctor. Not to take anything away from Phil, who is a very talented comedian and actor, but I can't help but think that many people across America watched that first episode and, upon seeing the center square, uttered "Phil who?" The closest things to household names on the panel were Jimmie Walker and Barbi Benton (but most people probably know her as Hugh Hefner's one-time paramour and nothing else). I'd never heard of Twyla before (or since); Alison, Jimmie, and Bill had been in successful series in the past but weren't on anything at the time. The only two people on the panel who had regular series gigs were Tom, then on "We Got It Made," and Skip, whose "Real People" had long ago ceased to be hot.
Don't get me wrong -- I loved discovering new faces on MGHS and on other game shows. MGHS was the first place I ever saw Arsenio Hall, Edie McClurg, and others. And with format and host problems, I don't know if the show would have had a long run anyway, but I think they could have put a lot more thought into their guests for the opening week. If it were me, I would have tried to get semi-big-name guests who had played previous incarnations of both games, like Bonnie Franklin, Dr. Joyce Brothers, Betty White, Edward Asner, and others.
What does everyone else think?
Brendan [/quote]
No, Big Stars wouldn't have made a difference Having, Peter Marshall as host of Hollywood Squares wouldn't either. However, if Peter Marshall hosted, Gene would have let the series air in reruns. Because, from my understanding Peter and Gene were very good friends and would have enjoyed working with one another. Gene may have been reluctant to do it in the first place I understand he was hosting a Saturday radio show at the time, but Gene and Peter would have been a good team!
Another thing is this, Phil Proctor is now the voice of Howard Deville Phil and Lil's father on Rugrats. BTW, Former Charlie's Angels star Bosley, and Regular MG Panelist David Doyle voiced Grandpa until he died. He was followed by Former Couch Potatoes and MG90 regular Joe Alaskey.
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However, if Peter Marshall hosted, Gene would have let the series air in reruns. Because, from my understanding Peter and Gene were very good friends and would have enjoyed working with one another. Gene may have been reluctant to do it in the first place I understand he was hosting a Saturday radio show at the time, but Gene and Peter would have been a good team!
So would Gene and Chuck Woolery, I think if it weren't for that sneaky Eric Leiber, Chuck would have been a good choice for the HSQ segment. Besides, they would've needed a 'straight-man' like Chuck to balance the zaniness of Geno.
Cordially,
Tammy Warner--the 'Loretta Swit of the Big Board!'
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[quote name=\'Winkfan\' date=\'Apr 26 2004, 06:28 PM\']
So would Gene and Chuck Woolery, I think if it weren't for that sneaky Eric Leiber, Chuck would have been a good choice for the HSQ segment. Besides, they woud've needed a 'straight-man' like Chuck to balance the zaniness of Geno.
[/quote]
THis would have made CHuck unavailable for Scrabble if it were to happen. Tom Kennedy or maybe even Bert Convy might have worked OK(Bert wouldn't happen due to his Tattletales committments)
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This may be heresy, but since Gene reportedly didn't want to do the show, and they were going with a newcomer in Jon Bauman, why not have a newbie in for Gene. That way, it would be like a fresh start. Maybe one of the other guys from Sha-Na-Na so there would be more rapport between the hosts.
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[quote name=\'Jamey Greek\' date=\'Apr 26 2004, 06:16 PM\'] No, Big Stars wouldn't have made a difference Having, Peter Marshall as host of Hollywood Squares wouldn't either. However, if Peter Marshall hosted, Gene would have let the series air in reruns. [/quote]
*sigh*
You have already been told more than once that it wasn't MGHS that Gene didn't want to air in reruns -- it was BTB85. Why does this need repeating every time MGHS comes up?
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[quote name=\'Jamey Greek\' date=\'Apr 26 2004, 05:16 PM\'] Gene may have been reluctant to do it in the first place I understand he was hosting a Saturday radio show at the time [/quote]
TV show, actually. Saturday Morning Live ran on WNEW (pre-Fox) from the fall of 1982, I believe, until around the time MG-HS cranked up.
I have no memories of the show and there's virtually nothing on the net about it -- probably ran 90 minutes or two hours; standard talk/variety format. Nothing flashy, but closer to his Monitor days and it let him work out of NYC.
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I don't buy for ONE second the line (and it appears frequently here) that Gene was dragged kicking and screaming into MGHS, or "He didn't want to do it"..
Folks, it's called show biz, and if Gene didn't want to take the gig, he wouldn't have taken the gig. The fact that he signed his name on the bottom line and hosted it refutes most theories that he didn't want to be there.
Jobs in this business are hard to come by. Hell, it tough on us in Local TV ,and that's a cake walk compared to landing a hosting gig on a national network game show.
So, unless anyone has some pretty rock hard evidence that Mark Goodson was pointing a gun at Geno while MGHS was taping, let's quit with this heresay, okay?
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[quote name=\'tvwxman\' date=\'Apr 26 2004, 09:11 PM\'] So, unless anyone has some pretty rock hard evidence that Mark Goodson was pointing a gun at Geno while MGHS was taping, let's quit with this heresay, okay? [/quote]
A lot of people probably have gone by Gene Wood's claim years ago (in an interview with David Hammett) that "Rayburn was dragged kicking and screaming into that hour." (http://\"http://www.crosswinds.net/~gsfan/gene2.html\") GW was probably exaggerating, of course, but since we've had no one else who could counter that claim, it's become the prevailing theory.
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[quote name=\'calliaume\' date=\'Apr 26 2004, 09:28 PM\'] [quote name=\'tvwxman\' date=\'Apr 26 2004, 09:11 PM\'] So, unless anyone has some pretty rock hard evidence that Mark Goodson was pointing a gun at Geno while MGHS was taping, let's quit with this heresay, okay? [/quote]
A lot of people probably have gone by Gene Wood's claim years ago (in an interview with David Hammett) that "Rayburn was dragged kicking and screaming into that hour." (http://\"http://www.crosswinds.net/~gsfan/gene2.html\") GW was probably exaggerating, of course, but since we've had no one else who could counter that claim, it's become the prevailing theory. [/quote]
Well, THAT didn't take long :)
Okay, since Gene Wood's three of a kind beats my two pair, I'll concede on this point (is that a first on this board?)...
But for the TV vets in the crowd, does this argument still not make a whole lot of sense? I understand Wood and Rayburn were tight, so he knows him better than I did, but c'mon.... why agree to do the job if you don't have too?
Randy? Your thoughts?
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Don't get me wrong -- I loved discovering new faces on MGHS and on other game shows.
Looking back now, it seems like a lot of '70s game show panelists had no other claim to fame. When you think of people like Nipsey Russell, Brett Somers, even to some degree Dick Gautier, you think of them as game show panelists. Conny Van Dyke is another one.
Dick starred as Hymie for 6 "Get Smart" episodes, and in the 1975 short-lived "When Things Were Rotten". Brett made a few guest appearances on "The Odd Couple", and Nipsey, besides being the "poet lauriet", hosted "Juvenile Jury". Conny.....what did she do again?
Besides being game show regulars, where they really big stars?
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Nipsey was a regular on "Car 54" and was somewhat well known as a stand up comic. I also remember Dick on "Mr. Terrific," but Hymie was his "claim to fame" IMO. You should check out the movie "Ensign Pulver" to see Dick and Peter Marshall among the cast. I think it has been noted that Brett got on MG through the lobbying of Jack Klugman. Conny? Fun panelist but not sure why she got booked initially. It seemed to be one of those times when a pretty face evolved into a good panelist.
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Also, let it be noted that Brett was appearing as Gertie the telephone operator on The New Perry Mason in 1973, which probably influenced the decision to put her on MG at that time. Since that series (predictably, I think) died a mercifully quick death, Brett didn't have a chance to become familiar to audiences in that role, but everyone knows her from MG. Had The New Perry Mason succeeded, she still wouldn't have been considered a big star, but perhaps she would have been known as more than just a game show celebrity.
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Nipsey also appeared on the movie Wildcats. and Eddie Murphy made fun of him on SNL.
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Conny Van Dyke was something of a second-level country singer, no big hits but a reliable performer (no mean feat when you consider some country stars' reputations). I remember her doing a telethon or two.
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Conny Van Dyke was something of a second-level country singer, no big hits but a reliable performer (no mean feat when you consider some country stars' reputations).
One-time YDS host Jim Peck, though he couldn't remember her name, said she was "a cute girl, but you had to watch her like a hawk...she was just raunchy!"
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby")
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[quote name=\'DrBear\' date=\'Apr 27 2004, 10:23 AM\'] Conny Van Dyke was something of a second-level country singer, no big hits but a reliable performer (no mean feat when you consider some country stars' reputations). I remember her doing a telethon or two. [/quote]
ANother legendary GS celebrity had a third-tier country music background IIRC: Blake Emmons.
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[quote name=\'zachhoran\' date=\'Apr 27 2004, 11:58 AM\'] [quote name=\'DrBear\' date=\'Apr 27 2004, 10:23 AM\'] Conny Van Dyke was something of a second-level country singer, no big hits but a reliable performer (no mean feat when you consider some country stars' reputations). I remember her doing a telethon or two. [/quote]
ANother legendary GS celebrity had a third-tier country music background IIRC: Blake Emmons. [/quote]
Look at that, "Blake Emmons" and "legendary GS celebrity" in the same sentence!
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[quote name=\'Jamey Greek\' date=\'Apr 26 2004, 05:16 PM\'] [quote name=\'pyrfan\' date=\'Apr 26 2004, 04:15 PM\'] Looking back on "Match Game/Hollywood Squares Hour's" first week on the air, I have to say that they didn't exactly launch it with a lot of star power. I know that big, big stars have never been a mainstay of game shows in general, but they could have upped the wattage a little bit for the premiere week.
Take another look at that week's guests: Twyla Littleton, Bill Daily, Barbi Benton, Jimmie Walker, Alison Arngrim, Skip Stephenson, Tom Villard, and -- in the center square -- Phil Proctor. Not to take anything away from Phil, who is a very talented comedian and actor, but I can't help but think that many people across America watched that first episode and, upon seeing the center square, uttered "Phil who?" The closest things to household names on the panel were Jimmie Walker and Barbi Benton (but most people probably know her as Hugh Hefner's one-time paramour and nothing else). I'd never heard of Twyla before (or since); Alison, Jimmie, and Bill had been in successful series in the past but weren't on anything at the time. The only two people on the panel who had regular series gigs were Tom, then on "We Got It Made," and Skip, whose "Real People" had long ago ceased to be hot.
Don't get me wrong -- I loved discovering new faces on MGHS and on other game shows. MGHS was the first place I ever saw Arsenio Hall, Edie McClurg, and others. And with format and host problems, I don't know if the show would have had a long run anyway, but I think they could have put a lot more thought into their guests for the opening week. If it were me, I would have tried to get semi-big-name guests who had played previous incarnations of both games, like Bonnie Franklin, Dr. Joyce Brothers, Betty White, Edward Asner, and others.
What does everyone else think?
Brendan [/quote]
No, Big Stars wouldn't have made a difference Having, Peter Marshall as host of Hollywood Squares wouldn't either. However, if Peter Marshall hosted, Gene would have let the series air in reruns. Because, from my understanding Peter and Gene were very good friends and would have enjoyed working with one another. Gene may have been reluctant to do it in the first place I understand he was hosting a Saturday radio show at the time, but Gene and Peter would have been a good team!
Another thing is this, Phil Proctor is now the voice of Howard Deville Phil and Lil's father on Rugrats. BTW, Former Charlie's Angels star Bosley, and Regular MG Panelist David Doyle voiced Grandpa until he died. He was followed by Former Couch Potatoes and MG90 regular Joe Alaskey. [/quote]
Twyla was on Family Feud in 1983 for a week-long Models week which among her teammates included a pre-Card Sharks Lacey Pemberton.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Apr 27 2004, 09:20 AM\'] Look at that, "Blake Emmons" and "legendary GS celebrity" in the same sentence! [/quote]
Only if you are Zach Horan is Blake Emmons anywhere near "legendary".
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[quote name=\'ChuckNet\' date=\'Apr 27 2004, 10:52 AM\']
Conny Van Dyke was something of a second-level country singer, no big hits but a reliable performer (no mean feat when you consider some country stars' reputations).
One-time YDS host Jim Peck, though he couldn't remember her name, said she was "a cute girl, but you had to watch her like a hawk...she was just raunchy!"
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby") [/quote]
I mused on the reason for Conny Van Dyke's fame on my You Don't Say! (http://\"http://www.curtalliaume.com/yds.html\") page (she appeared on that show more frequently), and promptly got a note from her son (who was reasonably forgiving). Note to self: don't be biting or sarcastic when the subject in question can read what you're thinking. Here's her site (http://\"http://www.connyvandyke.com\").
My thought is, especially in the mid-70s when so many celebrity games were on the air, there were just more slots open than there were celebrities willing to fill them -- so some lesser lights managed to get their tushes in the chairs.
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[quote name=\'zachhoran\' date=\'Apr 26 2004, 06:31 PM\']
THis would have made CHuck unavailable for Scrabble if it were to happen. Tom Kennedy or maybe even Bert Convy might have worked OK(Bert wouldn't happen due to his Tattletales committments) [/quote]
Well Scrabble didn't start until the Summer of 1984. So Chuck could have hosted MGHS and it would not have even conflicted with Scrabble. I believe MGHS was canceled before Scrabble even began.
Hypotheticly if Chuck was hired to host MGHS and if the show had lasted longer than it did........ it probably would of resulted in a different host being hired for Scrabble while Chuck remained with MGHS.
John
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[quote name=\'pyrfan\' date=\'Apr 26 2004, 04:15 PM\'] Don't get me wrong -- I loved discovering new faces on MGHS and on other game shows. MGHS was the first place I ever saw Arsenio Hall, Edie McClurg, and others.
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Edie did put in at least one appearance on Match Game '7x. I do have one episode on tape with her on the panel, sitting in Betty White's usual place, IIRC.
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[quote name=\'Skynet74\' date=\'Apr 28 2004, 01:01 PM\']
Well Scrabble didn't start until the Summer of 1984. So Chuck could have hosted MGHS and it would not have even conflicted with Scrabble. I believe MGHS was canceled before Scrabble even began.
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Scrabble and MGHS had four weeks of overlap, and WOolery did a week of MGHS to promote Scrabble