The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: tyshaun1 on April 25, 2004, 01:22:04 AM
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Tonight's GSN repeat featured yet another disparaging remark from Dawson toward Felsher, and it has me wondering; when exactly was Howard barred from Family Feud anyway? Did Richard mention it on the show?
Tyshaun
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Felscher was "barred" from the set sometime in '83. He was made executive producer, and he would not need to be present on the set. Cathy Hugart Dawson, Richard's daughter in law, was made producer.
As I remember, in the late '77 early '78 run, Richard started using his "monologue opening" as a sort of "soapbox" to express his thoughts on whatever was on his mind. Howard felt Richard was using too much time to joke around, detracting from the game, so that's why he upped the game to 300 points.
I think the real tension between Howard and Richard started between 79-80, when the 300 point rule was in effect. Howard told a story in the E! THS of Family Feud that Richard was vacationing in Hawaii and told the staff that he just might stay in Hawaii and leave Family Feud unless they raised his salary. Goodson and Felscher were ready to get rid of him, but ABC granted Richard a very big raise.
IMO they really should've left it at 200 points all along. It's obvious Richard felt restricted having less time to joke around, and it got even worse when the game was upped again to 400 points
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The 400 point games, IMHO, are the most enjoyable because it is 100% game play and not a lot of time wasted on up-front interviews. I'm sorry, but I just don't find most families on any version that interesting that I want to hear them keep talking. All the gift presentations, kissing, and cute conversations with 90 year grannies horny for Dawson bored me. If Dawson was so engaging beyond one or two quick quips, he would have been a sensation as a nightclub comic or regular feature on the Mike Douglas / Merv Griffin talk show circuit. I say get to the game.
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The 400 point games, IMHO, are the most enjoyable because it is 100% game play and not a lot of time wasted on up-front interviews
Mmm hmmm. If you had to compromise somewhere, keep it at 300. But the 200-point shows drrraaaaagggged so much I could barely watch them. The pilot format was of course the wrong way to do 200 - each question single value 'til somebody gets there. They had to rush to fit the game in. "Feud" would have had to straddle if one of those questions was worth only 40 or something.
-Jason
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[quote name=\'whewfan\' date=\'Apr 25 2004, 05:29 AM\'] Felscher was "barred" from the set sometime in '83. He was made executive producer, and he would not need to be present on the set. Cathy Hugart Dawson, Richard's daughter in law, was made producer.
As I remember, in the late '77 early '78 run, Richard started using his "monologue opening" as a sort of "soapbox" to express his thoughts on whatever was on his mind. Howard felt Richard was using too much time to joke around, detracting from the game, so that's why he upped the game to 300 points.
I think the real tension between Howard and Richard started between 79-80, when the 300 point rule was in effect. Howard told a story in the E! THS of Family Feud that Richard was vacationing in Hawaii and told the staff that he just might stay in Hawaii and leave Family Feud unless they raised his salary. Goodson and Felscher were ready to get rid of him, but ABC granted Richard a very big raise.
IMO they really should've left it at 200 points all along. It's obvious Richard felt restricted having less time to joke around, and it got even worse when the game was upped again to 400 points [/quote]
Or it could have been the result of Tricky Dick Dawson's immensely swelled head from his celebrity fame as host of The Feud. The stories of The Dawson Ego and how it caused him to be a thorn in Mark Goodson's side are legend.
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Felsher got some revenge on Dawson in the E! documentary about FF. Howard ranted at length about Dawson's ego, demands, and general orneriness. Of course, Howard didn't have much good to say about Combs and Louie, either. He came across as thoroughly obnoxious as he tried to depict Dawson.
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Mmm hmmm. If you had to compromise somewhere, keep it at 300. But the 200-point shows drrraaaaagggged so much I could barely watch them.
The 200-point rule was there, IMO, because they may have originally intended to use a straddled format, since a number of eps during the first few wks or so had a new family introduced at the end, w/Richard even getting in enough time to chat w/them like he usually did before the start of the game.
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby")
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Interesting to note though, on the final Family Feud, Richard mentions how him and Felsher "went through hell"(I think he actually said him and the staff) or something to that effect. He sure as hell kissed Felsher's rear end on that one!
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ABC granted Richard a very big raise.
We all know that emcees don't work for the networks, right? CBS cannot grant Barker a raise because he is not their employee. We know that, right? Mark Goodson was the only person who could grant Dawson a raise and he could do it one of two ways: give him the raise without getting more money from the network, which would have cut into his profit, or give him the raise and get more money from the network.
Howard is a very bright man with an equally forceful personality. His and Richard's differences were the result of a clash between Howard's large ego and Richard's gargantuan ego.
Paul Alter used to bring to the office stacks of 3/4" tapes with time code burnt in. He would view each show and make edit lists to cut the shows down for time. I don't know if every show ran over but a very large number of them did. I also don't know if the 300-point games worked in terms of there being more game and less Richard or if he continued to blabber, giving Paul more to cut out.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Apr 25 2004, 06:18 PM\']
ABC granted Richard a very big raise.
We all know that emcees don't work for the networks, right? CBS cannot grant Barker a raise because he is not their employee. We know that, right? Mark Goodson was the only person who could grant Dawson a raise and he could do it one of two ways: give him the raise without getting more money from the network, which would have cut into his profit, or give him the raise and get more money from the network.
Howard is a very bright man with an equally forceful personality. His and Richard's differences were the result of a clash between Howard's large ego and Richard's gargantuan ego.
Paul Alter used to bring to the office stacks of 3/4" tapes with time code burnt in. He would view each show and make edit lists to cut the shows down for time. I don't know if every show ran over but a very large number of them did. I also don't know if the 300-point games worked in terms of there being more game and less Richard or if he continued to blabber, giving Paul more to cut out. [/quote]
As a matter of fact, there were hints of Howard's ego and Ray Combs' ego coming to a head on Family Feud, if you watch some of the later episodes. Howard also mentioned Ray trying to turn the show into "The Ray Combs Show" on the E! THS. And I've heard he and Ludden had difficulties as well. Did Howard NOT have any problems with the hosts he worked with?
Tyshaun
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I'll simply be diplomatic in saying the there are many strong personalities in the biz. Few get to host, produce, or own TV shows without ego, drive and some control issues. It's part of what makes people who they are.
My only purpose in this post is to point out the irony that so many years later Howards's son Andy Felsher and Howard's replacement as Feud producer, Cathy Dawson have been working together every day for many months producing the "Price" stage show. And living, eating and working in a hotel together far from home is more like family than simply a work relationship.
They get along wonderfully; in fact they are good friends. And at the risk of being accused of kissing ass, they are two very gifted people with great sensibilities. Andy understands the "show" in show biz, as does Cathy who handles a tremendous amount of writing, staging and detail work and makes it look effortless.
All true, but it sure doesn't hurt to also kiss some ass ;-)
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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Any producer would have trouble getting along with Dawson and Ludden, IMO. You might say they are/were equal opportunity pricks. It's more coincidence than anything that Howard got to work with these two.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Apr 25 2004, 10:52 PM\'] Any producer would have trouble getting along with Dawson and Ludden, IMO. You might say they are/were equal opportunity pricks. It's more coincidental than anything that Howard got to work with these two. [/quote]
Just on the set or altogether?
For some reason I can't picture Ludden being anything but his on camera self, but then, I wasn't there :-)
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[quote name=\'tommycharles\' date=\'Apr 25 2004, 11:00 PM\'] [quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Apr 25 2004, 10:52 PM\'] Any producer would have trouble getting along with Dawson and Ludden, IMO. You might say they are/were equal opportunity pricks. It's more coincidental than anything that Howard got to work with these two. [/quote]
Just on the set or altogether?
For some reason I can't picture Ludden being anything but his on camera self, but then, I wasn't there :-) [/quote]
Well from everything I've heard and read, game show hosts were/are the most different from on camera to off of all TV entertainers. I'd imagine it comes from controlling the entire flow of the show, from directing to producing. In fact, I can't think of any hosts, outside of Bill Cullen, whom I've haven't heard of being difficult to work with at times.
Albeit, I'm sure we each have a few co-workers who would describe any of us as hard to deal with, it just sometimes comes with your territory.
Tyshaun
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[quote name=\'tyshaun1\' date=\'Apr 25 2004, 11:38 PM\'] Well from everything I've heard and read, game show hosts were/are the most different from on camera to off of all TV entertainers. I'd imagine it comes from controlling the entire flow of the show, from directing to producing. In fact, I can't think of any hosts, outside of Bill Cullen, whom I've haven't heard of being difficult to work with at times.
Albeit, I'm sure we each have a few co-workers who would describe any of us as hard to deal with, it just sometimes comes with your territory.
Tyshaun [/quote]
Yeah I get the same impression, and the first thing that comes to my mind is "how stressful can hosting a game show be?" - but then I know better than to make those assumptions.
It seems like the more people work in public relations (which a game show counts as, I'd say), the more they are difficult to work with when they're just among the employees - I work in a library, and the "pages" (grunts who do the shelving) are a lot nicer than the clerks, I'd say.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Apr 25 2004, 10:52 PM\'] Any producer would have trouble getting along with Dawson and Ludden, IMO. You might say they are/were equal opportunity pricks. It's more coincidental than anything that Howard got to work with these two. [/quote]
Chris, how was Ludden a prick? Not to have you slander the guy, but what kinds of things would he do?
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Felscher was "barred" from the set sometime in '83. He was made executive producer, and he would not need to be present on the set. Cathy Hugart Dawson, Richard's daughter in law, was made producer.
I heard on the THS, that he was barred in 81.
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[quote name=\'adamjk\' date=\'Apr 26 2004, 03:09 PM\']
Felscher was "barred" from the set sometime in '83. He was made executive producer, and he would not need to be present on the set. Cathy Hugart Dawson, Richard's daughter in law, was made producer.
I heard on the THS, that he was barred in 81. [/quote]
A good estimation, but who knows? Don't take everything that is reported in a E!THS at face value, especially when it comes to game shows.
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[quote name=\'Card Shark\' date=\'Apr 27 2004, 06:25 AM\'] [quote name=\'adamjk\' date=\'Apr 26 2004, 03:09 PM\']
Felscher was "barred" from the set sometime in '83. He was made executive producer, and he would not need to be present on the set. Cathy Hugart Dawson, Richard's daughter in law, was made producer.
I heard on the THS, that he was barred in 81. [/quote]
A good estimation, but who knows? Don't take everything that is reported in a E!THS at face value, especially when it comes to game shows. [/quote]
Kinda like how their 50% of the TPiR THS was devoted to Janice's missing husband.
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[quote name=\'Card Shark\' date=\'Apr 27 2004, 06:25 AM\'] A good estimation, but who knows? Don't take everything that is reported in a E!THS at face value, especially when it comes to game shows. [/quote]
THS (E! True Hollywood Story, for those who dislike acronyms) is a fairly shoddy enterprise. Most of the "news" is already common knowledge, and if they're able to get a famous face or two to jazz up the story, so much the better. And someone who has a terrible memory can go on there and leave misleading impressions.
I remember getting an e-mail from Laura Chambers not long after the Ray Combs show aired (she appeared on it) -- she was not impressed.
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Well, yeah, E! ain't exactly the most reliable source. But Felsher himself used most of his time on the FF show to badmouth Dawson, Combs, Louie, and Dawson's daughter. Really, the only exception was when he expressed sadness over Combs' suicide.
Okay, maybe they edited his interviews for just the juicier bits. But I didn't notice anybody holding a gun to Felsher's head as he dumped on all these people. The blunt fact is that he came off looking at least as obnoxious and unlikeable as he tried to make his targets look.
This may be totally unfair and Howard Felsher may be a saint among men. But if you do a lot of trash talk on teevee interviews, it's hard to look sweet and kind.
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[quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'Apr 28 2004, 05:46 AM\'] Well, yeah, E! ain't exactly the most reliable source. But Felsher himself used most of his time on the FF show to badmouth Dawson, Combs, Louie, and Dawson's daughter. Really, the only exception was when he expressed sadness over Combs' suicide.
Okay, maybe they edited his interviews for just the juicier bits. But I didn't notice anybody holding a gun to Felsher's head as he dumped on all these people. The blunt fact is that he came off looking at least as obnoxious and unlikeable as he tried to make his targets look.
This may be totally unfair and Howard Felsher may be a saint among men. But if you do a lot of trash talk on teevee interviews, it's hard to look sweet and kind. [/quote]
Consider these points:
1. They're not going to ask questions which elicit fluff, they're going to ask questions which elicit dirt/scandal/gossip. Howard was responding to the questions they were asking and the sound bites they used were the ones containing dirt/scandal/gossip.
2. He was being candid. He wasn't sugar-coating his answers or trying to protect anyone's reputation the way an agent, manager or P.R. person might. He had nothing to lose by giving honest answers.
3. He was discussing two emcees who had major "issues" and one he hadn't worked with but simply didn't like.
4. This is a man with decades of experience going all the way back to the '50s quiz scandal. He knows whereof he speaks.
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And this is also a man who came off looking like a world-class pain in the butt. As for how "candid" he was, some of his targets might beg to differ. E! actually did offer a chance to Dawson's daughter to respond to Felsher's attack. Combs, of course, was sadly unavailable for comment, and Dawson has become a semi-recluse with regard to media interviews. Louie didn't appear to have been informed of Felsher's comments.
As for the actual merits of Felsher's complaints, I would say his swipe at Dawson's daughter was completely undeserved, and I was happy to see her reply in a dignified and professional way. His harsh opinions of the three hosts might have been somewhat justified, though I'm sure the hosts would have responded with comments on Felsher's own unappealing personal style.
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[quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'Apr 30 2004, 07:09 AM\'] And this is also a man who came off looking like a world-class pain in the butt. As for how "candid" he was, some of his targets might beg to differ. E! actually did offer a chance to Dawson's daughter to respond to Felsher's attacks. Combs, of course, was sadly unavailable for comment, and Dawson has become a semi-recluse with regard to media interviews. Louie didn't appear to have been informed of Felsher's attacks.
As for the actual merits of Felsher's complaints, I would say his swipe at Dawson's daughter was completely undeserved, and I was happy to see her reply in a dignified and professional way. His harsh opinions of the three hosts might have been somewhat justified, though I'm sure the hosts would have responded with comments on Felsher's own unappealing personal style. [/quote]
While I do agree that they made Felsher out to be a jackass, I don't agree with the assessment that he somehow bashed Dawson's daughter-in-law. I think he was referencing the fact that when he left the show, the ratings finally went in the toilet. I think that was more of a shot at Dawson than Cathy, since it was his "decision" to remove Felsher from the show, not Cathy Dawson's.
The show lasted 18 months without Felsher as producer, whereas it top-rated for 7 years with him. Plus I get the impression that if you were to talk to any person involved directly with the production of a show, some ego's going to come out. ;)
Tyshaun
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IIRC, Felsher commented that the decision to install Dawson's daughter as an exec on the show was a "disaster." E! then cut to the aformentioned daughter pointing out her Emmy nominations. She did not attack Felsher personally.
Wouldn't have minded more such give-and-take when Felsher slammed Dawson or Louie. But Dawson clearly didn't grant an interview to the producers of the show, and Louie didn't seem to be aware that Felsher had ripped him for "not giving a damn" about the contestants.
Again, Felsher's complaints may have had some merit. But it would have been nice to see more responses from his targets. And, to put it gently, Felsher did not come off as a particularly easy guy to work with himself.
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[quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'Apr 30 2004, 09:03 AM\']Again, Felsher's complaints may have had some merit. But it would have been nice to see more responses from his targets. And, to put it gently, Felsher did not come off as a particularly easy guy to work with himself.[/quote]
I agree. Even if I can understand Howards's point of view (especially in his beef with Dawson, since Dawson occasionally criticized Felsher on the air), he loses credibility when he starts in on the same tirade regarding Combs and even Anderson, whom he'd never even worked with. It became apparent to me at that point that it's less about any one host's issues or demons and more about Felsher's issues. The legitimate issues have less impact as Felsher comes across as a crank upset that FF may have been more "The Richard Dawson Show" or "The Ray Combs Show", as opposed to "The Howard Felsher Show".
Still, Howard's snarking about Cathy's leadership followed by the information about Cathy's award nominations was humorous. And it could have been worse...Howard could have spent his entire interview discussing the misadventures of Janice Pennington's husband.
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It became apparent to me at that point that it's less about any one host's issues or demons and more about Felsher's issues. The legitimate issues have less impact as Felsher comes across as a crank upset that FF may have been more "The Richard Dawson Show" or "The Ray Combs Show", as opposed to "The Howard Felsher Show".
As producer, Howard was responsible for the operation of the show and these two trampled on his authority in that regard. Richard's disregard for bringing the show in on time cost them big time in terms of added studio and edit time. Howard's personality could be described as "abrasive" but Dawson insisted that the producer of Match Game, Ira Skutch, be banned from the studio, and Ira is positively mild-mannered.
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Did Dawson do this around the time he began not participating so to speak, on Match Game?
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[quote name=\'adamjk\' date=\'Apr 30 2004, 04:27 PM\'] Did Dawson do this around the time he began not participating so to speak, on Match Game? [/quote]
If he had Howard booted from the set in '80, he'd already been gone from Match Game for two years.
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I was speaking of when Ira got banned from the Match Game set.
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[quote name=\'adamjk\' date=\'Apr 30 2004, 05:28 PM\'] I was speaking of when Ira got banned from the Match Game set. [/quote]
He wasn't banned, Chris said Richard tried to have Ira banned (which is news to me). It makes sense then that Richard "stopped participating" on the show as a result, though.
Tyshaun
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Ah, I see. Anyone have a clue why Dickie wanted Ira banned to begin with?
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[quote name=\'adamjk\' date=\'Apr 30 2004, 05:48 PM\'] Ah, I see. Anyone have a clue why Dickie wanted Ira banned to begin with? [/quote]
My educated guess is because of why he wanted Felsher out: Disagreement on judging calls.
Tyshaun
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Hmm, I wonder if the school riot episode from 77, may have had a play in why all this nonsense got started.
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Dawson and Felsher had an on-air set-to once over an answer a family gave which was a synonym for the answer that actually appeared on the board. Felsher called them wrong; Dawson felt they were close enough to be counted right. Finally Dawson said, "Either they'll be back on this show tomorrow or I won't." Guess who won the argument.
As for Dawson's tendency to use his opening comments to speak his mind, he once said of Henry Kissinger, "He's the man who said
'peace is at hand', then put the world on hold while another 10,000 people died." When a couple of advertisers threatened to pull off the show, Dawson said, in effect, go ahead; we've got advertisers lined up to get on this show. Guess you can say that when you've got the number-one daytime show.
And there was the time TV Guide did a cover story about game-show hosts and Dawson refused to appear because he thought he was going to be the only one on that cover.
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While absolutely on-topic, I gotta think that eleven years and three months is some kind of record.
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True, and ego or not, I don't think anyone else was as good hosting "Feud" as Dawson. I just wanted to point out (1) that Dawson and Felsher had their occasional on-air tiffs; and (2) Dawson was not afraid to speak his mind. As he once put it, when a contestant gave an obviously stupid answer he called them on it. "Bob Barker and those other guys want to be Charlie Charming--good try but incorrect. But when an answer is obviously dumb, you have to call them on it, right?"
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But when an answer is obviously dumb, you have to call them on it, right?"
No, you really don't. Richard Dawson has hundreds of hours being on air--game show contestants get one chance and lots of times aren't at their best because there's lots of distractions going on.
I do think it is indicative of a huge flaw in Richard's character to say that.
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True, and ego or not, I don't think anyone else was as good hosting "Feud" as Dawson.
Um, I was talking about bumping a prehistoric thread.
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True, and ego or not, I don't think anyone else was as good hosting "Feud" as Dawson. I just wanted to point out (1) that Dawson and Felsher had their occasional on-air tiffs; and (2) Dawson was not afraid to speak his mind. As he once put it, when a contestant gave an obviously stupid answer he called them on it. "Bob Barker and those other guys want to be Charlie Charming--good try but incorrect. But when an answer is obviously dumb, you have to call them on it, right?"
Yeah...sure...it is a game show host's place to humiliate a contestant on national TV...of course it is...
JakeT
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Number one show or not, Richard Dawson was a spoiled brat during Feud's peak. He was a great host, yes, but he was also a prima donna, and a lot of his actions were totally unprofessional, whether they benefited the family or not.
Act like you've been there before.
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Regarding Allen Ludden, in Betty White's book "Here We Go Again", Betty said that Allen could at times be blatantly honest, and sometimes being TOO honest could get them into trouble. That likely came into play with Password and Password Plus. Ludden was obviously not a fan of the lenient judging early in the run of Password Plus ("Firewoman" was accepted for the clue "Fireman") but it's likely they did that to get celebs and contestants comfortable with the game, then the judging got more strict when they became more accustomed to the game and the puzzle format. Also, because opposites were being used too often for clues, they decided to have a "no opposite" rule. Ludden seemed to have reservations about this change too, but it did make the game more interesting to watch.
Also, with Password All Stars, there were so many format changes and too many layers. This included adding a DOUBLE option in the main game, the option being decided by flashing arrows, and the complicated scoring of the bonus game. Scoring each celeb individually for the final show also must've been a headache. Just watch Ludden host the finale. On the surface it's business as usual, but one can also tell that Ludden didn't like waiting for the flashing arrows, and you can tell he's thinking "geez this is a lot to explain" when he's breaking down the scoring during the bonus game.
It's interesting with Richard Dawson's excellent playing skills that he never appeared on Password Plus, but it's also no surprise considering Felscher produced that show too. Then again, Felscher also produced Password All Stars, but if Dawson had any ego problems, they weren't evident in 1975 because this was before Family Feud. In fact, watch any episode of Match Game '75, Dawson was at his peak and seemed quite happy in general.
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It's interesting with Richard Dawson's excellent playing skills that he never appeared on Password Plus, but it's also no surprise considering Felscher produced that show too. Then again, Felscher also produced Password All Stars, but if Dawson had any ego problems, they weren't evident in 1975 because this was before Family Feud. In fact, watch any episode of Match Game '75, Dawson was at his peak and seemed quite happy in general.
I snipped that part for space, but the Allen Ludden points are all from 11 years ago, as is this thread bumping. As for him not being on P+, I imagine Richard it was because he hosted a daytime game show on a competing network.
It was a little different with MG, since he'd already been there a few years by the time Feud premiered. Reminds me of a MG episode (though I believe it was the PM version), where Gene mentioned Feud's premiere, but said he couldn't mention the network. Richard simply asked "What are the first three letters of the alphabet... (Gene: "ABC.") ...that's the network it airs on."
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True, and ego or not, I don't think anyone else was as good hosting "Feud" as Dawson. I just wanted to point out (1) that Dawson and Felsher had their occasional on-air tiffs; and (2) Dawson was not afraid to speak his mind. As he once put it, when a contestant gave an obviously stupid answer he called them on it. "Bob Barker and those other guys want to be Charlie Charming--good try but incorrect. But when an answer is obviously dumb, you have to call them on it, right?"
Hate to say it, but Gene Rayburn was far more vocal, about pointing out a bad answer, or when a contestant was outright "stupid". I've always found him to be outright rude when telling a contestant their answer sucks (even thought we all may think it does). I think Richard gets a bad rap. In fact Richard would often do it with a wink and a "kiss", Gene just walked away and rolled his eyes.
Another example is the episode on now, on Buzzr. After several tiebreakers where the champion has had 3 chances to win the game, after she picks her question, Gene says something to the effect of "all you need are three matches to win the game, but somehow you'll manage to not do it" as he struts away to get the stars answers.
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I think that Match Game, for what it became, allowed for bad answers to be called out by Gene. I mean, the audience would absolutely devour a contestant or celebrity for a bad answer. Plus, with its popularity, most contestants knew what they were walking into when they got on to the show. I don't think it's entirely fair to call Gene out and not mention how the atmosphere fostered such an attitude that was encouraged.
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I think that Match Game, for what it became, allowed for bad answers to be called out by Gene. I mean, the audience would absolutely devour a contestant or celebrity for a bad answer. Plus, with its popularity, most contestants knew what they were walking into when they got on to the show. I don't think it's entirely fair to call Gene out and not mention how the atmosphere fostered such an attitude that was encouraged.
Imagine a contestant on You Bet Your Life writing a newspaper article (remember those?) about how she didn't realize that Groucho Marx was going to poke merciless fun at her job, hobbies and foibles. It's a known commodity at that point. Any contestant on Match Game '75 or later had to know what she was in for because the show was on for two years and it gradually became Gene Rayburn's comedy circus. Family Feud had funny moments but it was nowhere near the same thing.
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Any contestant on Match Game '75 or later had to know what she was in for because the show was on for two years and it gradually became Gene Rayburn's comedy circus. Family Feud had funny moments but it was nowhere near the same thing.
I never had issues with Gene's mocking of answers...they always seemed to be gentle ribbing, even with the sarcastic examples James cited. That said, I give him credit for not undermining his producers' authority the way Richard did.
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I can't speak for the reaction of "Match Game" contestants, especially when the audience would boo an answer that wasn't raunchy enough, nor can I speak for "Feud" contestants on the receiving end of Dawson's putdowns (and I want to add that the thing I posted about Dawson's response to a couple of advertisers' protests about a tasteless remark he made about Henry Kissinger in which I said, roughly, "guess you can do that when you're the number-one daytime show," was intended as sarcasm directed at Dawson). What ticked Dawson off would be a question like this: Name a country in Europe; top six answers on the board. The family gets England, France, Spain, Germany, Italy, then blanks on the sixth one. Somebody says "Denmark." Dawson knows that's a country in Europe, and while it's a little out of left field, it's still a valid answer that, in my example, just didn't make the survey. But if the same person says "Japan," Dawson might suggest the hapless player go back to school and relearn geography. That might have seemed fresh at first (an emcee who lets a contestant know when a wrong answer is twenty miles off the track) but I think it got to be a turn-off after a time.
As for Groucho's contestants, they were always told beforehand not to get mad if he said anything; it was all in fun. The people no doubt knew Groucho's character from the movies and those who didn't receive a mild putdown were usually disappointed. But even Groucho once said he had to draw the line. George Fenneman and, before him, Margaret Dumont, were pros and almost like family to Groucho. But, Groucho once said, he had to watch what he said when the contestant was not in show business; there was always the chance they'd take it the wrong way. Marion Pollock, who wrote the questions and stayed with the contestants to keep them relaxed before facing Groucho, once said that most would come offstage saying, "It wasn't so bad."
Another host who didn't mind injecting a little sarcasm was Bob Eubanks. He once said he wished a husband on "The Newlywed Game" would take a swing at him, then leave and not come back. Eubanks thought it would be funny to see four wives and three husbands onstage.
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I think that Match Game, for what it became, allowed for bad answers to be called out by Gene. I mean, the audience would absolutely devour a contestant or celebrity for a bad answer. Plus, with its popularity, most contestants knew what they were walking into when they got on to the show. I don't think it's entirely fair to call Gene out and not mention how the atmosphere fostered such an attitude that was encouraged.
valid point, the audience play a role. But there were times he would mock it, only to have several stars provide a matching answer.
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Dawson and Felsher had an on-air set-to once over an answer a family gave which was a synonym for the answer that actually appeared on the board. Felsher called them wrong; Dawson felt they were close enough to be counted right. Finally Dawson said, "Either they'll be back on this show tomorrow or I won't." Guess who won the argument.
Seems like if that made it to air, rather than being cut out, it says something. But during the time it took to read the rest of the thread, I've forgotten what.