The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => Game Show Channels & Networks => Topic started by: Matt Ottinger on March 29, 2004, 12:49:12 PM
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From Marc Berman's Programming Insider:
Court TV....has a new name in primetime, The Investigation Channel, and an ambitious slate of new and returning programs. With a financial commitment of $200 million for original programming and marketing over the next two years, the network will introduce at least four new series....three made-for movies, more specials and other returning series.
Sound familiar? My point for posting this is to remind the GSN naysayers that EVERY cable channel needs to grow and evolve to stay competitive in the marketplace. I'm sure there are Court TV faithful who expected it to be all court coverage all the time and are aghast at this move toward more forensic-style programming. But you can add this to the ever-growing list of networks that wouldn't BE growing if they didn't make changes like this now and then. And GSN's changes are smaller than most!
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I like change and growth, but I wonder if the concept of "niche" programming is flawed. It seems like a new channel has to convince a cable carrier that it is something other than a general interest channel to get launched, then finds it must change the focus in order to survive. As far as Court TV, if the trial was at all interesting (O.J., etc), CNN or even local stations would cover it as well. Why watch Court TV when you could watch the same show on Channel 4? Not many niche players ever stay true to the original intent, yet the universe continues to unfold, as it should.
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Court TV moved away from straight trial coverage at night quite a while ago, in favor of true crime documentaries and NYPD Blue and Cops and just about anything else. The result was better numbers, though things have stagnated a bit lately. But the MediaLifeMagazine article I referenced on another thread said the network picked up record numbers on March 18.
GSN starts from an even "niche-ier" position than Court TV did, though. After all, crime and legal dramas have always featured prominently in prime time, much more than game shows over the past few decades. So it might be a harder slog toward mainstream programming for GSN.
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Hopefully Court TV doesn't pull a complete "The New GSN", thus becoming "CTV" or even "TIC".
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[quote name=\'Mario500\' date=\'Mar 29 2004, 04:09 PM\'] Hopefully Court TV doesn't pull a complete "The New GSN", thus becoming "CTV" or even "TIC". [/quote]
What possible difference could that make?
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In semi-related news, G4 and Tech TV will merge in May, as per a post on rec.arts.tv. This probably means goodbye to reruns of Starcade on G4.
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[quote name=\'zachhoran\' date=\'Mar 29 2004, 07:42 PM\'] In semi-related news, G4 and Tech TV will merge in May, as per a post on rec.arts.tv. This probably means goodbye to reruns of Starcade on G4. [/quote]
...if G4 does drop Starcade, what are the chances that GSN could grab it?
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To answer a question above, the only difference I would see is yet another channel joining the acronym parade (TLC, TNN/The New TNN, IFC, FNC, FSN, HSN). What are they, the broadcast channels? It may have worked for CNN and QVC (both since day 1), but many other cable channels following is so far not working for some viewers.
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[quote name=\'Mario500\' date=\'Mar 29 2004, 01:09 PM\'] Hopefully Court TV doesn't pull a complete "The New GSN", thus becoming "CTV" or even "TIC". [/quote]
The channel resulting from the merger of Ha! and The Comedy Channel was originally named CTV. The Canadian network of the same name was none too happy.
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I just noticed that Noggin has gone through a change too. There was a promo for it and it was called "The N". They are also airing episodes of The Brady Bunch. What happened to The Electric Company and other classics?
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[quote name=\'Pyramid80\' date=\'Mar 29 2004, 10:11 PM\'] I just noticed that Noggin has gone through a change too. There was a promo for it and it was called "The N". They are also airing episodes of The Brady Bunch. What happened to The Electric Company and other classics? [/quote]
It has been both for a while... it was Noggin in the morning/afternoon, "The N" in the evening. I used to love watching the channel since they reran old episodes of Sesame Street, 3-2-1 Contact, Square One, and a jewel I got to know called Electric Company. Now all it is is Blue's Clues and crappy Degrassi, weirdly enough one of Canada's highest rated programs.
Brandon Brooks
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Mar 29 2004, 12:49 PM\'] From Marc Berman's Programming Insider:
Court TV....has a new name in primetime, The Investigation Channel, and an ambitious slate of new and returning programs. With a financial commitment of $200 million for original programming and marketing over the next two years, the network will introduce at least four new series....three made-for movies, more specials and other returning series.
Sound familiar? My point for posting this is to remind the GSN naysayers that EVERY cable channel needs to grow and evolve to stay competitive in the marketplace. I'm sure there are Court TV faithful who expected it to be all court coverage all the time and are aghast at this move toward more forensic-style programming. But you can add this to the ever-growing list of networks that wouldn't BE growing if they didn't make changes like this now and then. And GSN's changes are smaller than most! [/quote]
Since most of my primetime TV time has gone from Game Show Ne...GSN to CourtTV over the past 6 months, I can hopefully add some worthwhile CourtTV info to this discussion.
CourtTV has been using the "The Investigative Channel" moniker for its primetime lineup since well before the first of this year. Most of their new programs have focused on forensics (Body of Evidence; North Mission Road; I, Detective) plus CourtTV overkilled, er, debuted its first original movie in January. CourtTV also has The Saturday Night Solution, which is 3 hours of CourtTV's Saturday night lineup with interstitials about a certain topic or event. Sounds similar to Games Across America on another network whose acronymous name has slipped my mind...:-)
Let's recap... Both networks have new names (well, sorta for CourtTV), both have a different style of programming in primetime which both networks hope to attract a new, non-traditional type of viewer, and both have a Saturday night lineup with interstitials related to the network's programming focus. IMO, that's just the nature of the beast nowadays.
ObGS: One recent CourtTV show, the quasi-game Fake Out, lasted six episodes.
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Since most of my primetime TV time has gone from Game Show Ne...GSN to CourtTV over the past 6 months, I can hopefully add some worthwhile CourtTV info to this discussion.
Hm, you're something of an exception, according to Nielsen Media Research. Court TV's ratings have been generally flat to down over the past six months, while GSN's have been up since the nastiness of last August and September. Court TV does seem to be bouncing back this month, scoring record numbers on a recent Thursday with an assist (hoops term) from CBS.
For the (court?) record, Court TV scored a 0.8 in February prime time, down from 0.9 last year. GSN scored a 0.6, up from 0.5 last year. Yes, these are tiny movements and Nielsen's measurements are always open to question. But in the world of niche cable operators, tiny movements get noticed.
One difference isn't so tiny. Court TV is available in about eighty million households, GSN in just over fifty million. Of course, the two are corporate siblings, at least to some extent, thanks to Liberty's half-ownership of both networks.
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I think there might have been a mixup. Those who said they were watching Court TV were actually watching basketball. After all, everybody knows basketball is played on a.....court.
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[quote name=\'Brandon Brooks\' date=\'Mar 29 2004, 11:31 PM\'][quote name=\'Pyramid80\' date=\'Mar 29 2004, 10:11 PM\'] I just noticed that Noggin has gone through a change too. There was a promo for it and it was called "The N". They are also airing episodes of The Brady Bunch. What happened to The Electric Company and other classics? [/quote]
It has been both for a while... it was Noggin in the morning/afternoon, "The N" in the evening. I used to love watching the channel since they reran old episodes of Sesame Street, 3-2-1 Contact, Square One, and a jewel I got to know called Electric Company. Now all it is is Blue's Clues and crappy Degrassi, weirdly enough one of Canada's highest rated programs.[/quote]
To be a little more exact, for the last couple of years the former "kids' thinking network" has been the pre-school oriented Noggin during the day, airing Nick Jr. shows, 90s "Sesame Street," the original repackage "Play With Me Sesame" and some exclusive acquisitions. At night, it's The N, aimed at the so-called "tween" audience with "DeGrassi," repeats of "Clarissa" and "Pete and Pete" from Nick (and "Daria" from MTV), some other foreign acquisitions and "Clueless" repeats (and they're adding the much-beloved "My So-Called Life" next week). This went along with Sesame Workshop selling back to Viacom its half of the channel and perhaps ending access to its library.
Also, as of May, the channel will cease being commercial-free during its N hours, it being, AFAIK, the first MTV Networks digital channel to add advertising on a regular basis (although something tells me that VH1 Classic does air advertising, I don't get the channel--damn you, Comcast!--so I can't verify that).
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[quote name=\'uncamark\' date=\'Mar 30 2004, 04:25 PM\'] (although something tells me that VH1 Classic does air advertising, I don't get the channel--damn you, Comcast!--so I can't verify that). [/quote]
Unless something has drastically changed recently, the only "ads" that air between music video segments are VH-1-programming related (same goes for VH-1 Country). I was out of town for a few days, so it's been a little while since I've watched it, but as far as I know VH-1 Classic isn't airing actual commercials yet.
Doug -- who does have Comcast (I think it's now the fourth name of my cable operator)
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[quote name=\'uncamark\' date=\'Mar 30 2004, 05:25 PM\'] (although something tells me that VH1 Classic does air advertising, I don't get the channel--damn you, Comcast!--so I can't verify that). [/quote]
VH1 Classic doesn't have commercials as yet, but they have started adding the occasional early 90s video, sort of defeating the purpose of Classic.
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>> ...if G4 does drop Starcade, what are the chances that GSN could grab it?
Maybe if you go to the G4TV.com board and run into Top Starcader, you could ask him. He is in reality "Starcade" producer James Caruso. I'd bet he would want to hear that idea.
>> VH1 Classic doesn't have commercials as yet, but they have started adding the occasional early 90s video, sort of defeating the purpose of Classic.
I'm also a frequent VH1C watcher, and I've noticed quite a number of 90's videos, usually in the Request Hour. [although the video for Pink Floyd's "High Hopes" has been on the network for a while now] Some folks like the fact they're adding 90's videos, while some don't. Me....it doesn't matter much to me, just as long as they don't go past '95-'96.
>> I used to love watching the channel [Noggin] since they reran old episodes of Sesame Street, 3-2-1 Contact, Square One, and a jewel I got to know called Electric Company.
Oh, yeah, I watched that too. Can't forget Bill Nye, as well!
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Maybe if you go to the G4TV.com board and run into Top Starcader, you could ask him. He is in reality "Starcade" producer James Caruso. I'd bet he would want to hear that idea.
Already did. I posted the idea and gave the reasons why it would be a good move [wider availability, fitting the network, etc.]
Who knows? Maybe, if we're lucky, by the fall we'll be talking about Starcade reruns on GSN. I certainly hope that happens.
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[quote name=\'Chief-O\' date=\'Mar 30 2004, 07:01 PM\']
I'm also a frequent VH1C watcher, and I've noticed quite a number of 90's videos, usually in the Request Hour. [although the video for Pink Floyd's "High Hopes" has been on the network for a while now] Some folks like the fact they're adding 90's videos, while some don't. Me....it doesn't matter much to me, just as long as they don't go past '95-'96.
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Allow them to play more recent videos if its from an artist who first hit in the 80s. VH1 Classic can be an outlet for videos from older artists MTV or the regular VH1 won't play(when said channels DO decide to play videos)
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Just saw from Marc Berman's Mediaweek column that Court TV is bragging about a very good first quarter in 18-49. So maybe business picked up in March after a lackluster February.
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I understand this is a little off topic but when A&E's Contract of L.A Law reruns run out, I hope that the Investigative Channel, or Court TV or whatever rerun it. and perhaps Hill Street Blues. The Biography Channel is currently airing reruns of L.A Law, and A&E has aired them since 2000. and I hope L.A Law's contract doesn't run out or The Biography Channel stops rerunning L.A Law, before I get to see the episode where Brackman appears on WOF.
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[quote name=\'Jamey Greek\' date=\'Apr 13 2004, 08:39 AM\'] I understand this is a little off topic but when A&E's Contract of L.A Law reruns run out, I hope that the Investigative Channel, or Court TV or whatever rerun it. and perhaps Hill Street Blues. The Biography Channel is currently airing reruns of L.A Law, and A&E has aired them since 2000. and I hope L.A Law's contract doesn't run out or The Biography Channel stops rerunning L.A Law, before I get to see the episode where Brackman appears on WOF. [/quote]
Because seeing that specific episode is really a life or death issue, right? Life goes on, people.
He revived a thread which was dormant for two weeks for this?
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[quote name=\'Brandon Brooks\' date=\'Mar 30 2004, 12:31 AM\'] I used to love watching the channel since they reran old episodes of Sesame Street, 3-2-1 Contact, Square One, and a jewel I got to know called Electric Company. Now all it is is Blue's Clues and crappy Degrassi, weirdly enough one of Canada's highest rated programs.
Brandon Brooks [/quote]
To dig up a dead thread even more..
You people who bitch about GSN showing the same seasons of shows over again - Try working up a good bit of excitement at seeing old shows like the ones Brandon mentioned, and when they finally air, they show the same 65 episodes of each show ad nauseum.
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Problem is, unlike adults, children can withstand rerun abuse.
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[quote name=\'sshuffield70\' date=\'Apr 13 2004, 03:53 PM\'] Problem is, unlike adults, children can withstand rerun abuse. [/quote]
Well, the shows Brandon mentioned mainly ran in the late-night hours - probably not any children watching, just adults that are looking for that nostalgia kick...
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Hey I am sorry but The point I am trying to come across is that when A&E's contract of L.A Law runs out or if The Biogrpahy Channel takes L.A Law off it's schedule I would like The Invesitgative Channel or Court TV to rerun L.A Law because I like that show and I would like to see the episode where Brackman appears on Goen Wheel of Fortune.
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[quote name=\'Jamey Greek\' date=\'Apr 14 2004, 09:26 AM\'] Hey I am sorry but The point I am trying to come across is that when A&E's contract of L.A Law runs out or if The Biogrpahy Channel takes L.A Law off it's schedule I would like The Invesitgative Channel or Court TV to rerun L.A Law because I like that show and I would like to see the episode where Brackman appears on Goen Wheel of Fortune. [/quote]
Let's get this straight.
It's called Court TV, not The Jamey Greek Channel. Your point is moot; and not even really a point, moreso an opinion. Mike's comments apparently went over your head. Perhaps Chris has some tickets for you on Clueville Airlines...the friendlier way to fly the skies.
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Hey I am trying to suggest that L.A Law is a good show for Court TV to air when A&E's contract of L.A Law runs out I did not just say that just because I like watching reruns of the show. I am saying that L.A Law reruns best fit Court TV it is suited for Court TV L.A Law reruns ran on Lifetime, A&E, The Biography Channel, and maybe Court TV It is jsut a suggestion 'nuff said.
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[quote name=\'Jamey Greek\' date=\'Apr 15 2004, 09:04 AM\'] Hey I am trying to suggest that L.A Law is a good show for Court TV to air when A&E's contract of L.A Law runs out I did not just say that just because I like watching reruns of the show. I am saying that L.A Law reruns best fit Court TV it is suited for Court TV L.A Law reruns ran on Lifetime, A&E, The Biography Channel, and maybe Court TV It is jsut a suggestion 'nuff said. [/quote]
Let's break this down subjectively.
You said:
because I like that show and I would like to see the episode where Brackman appears on Goen Wheel of Fortune.
You now said:
I did not just say that just because I like watching reruns of the show.
You can't have it both ways.
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Sorry Don!