The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: jjman920 on February 02, 2025, 06:28:56 PM
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Wasn't exactly sure where to put this, but today (February 2nd) is the 75th Anniversary of What's My Line? While I know panel shows aren't everyone's cup of tea, this show helped set the standard of the quality that was to come from Mark Goodson and Bill Todman as they continued to build their television production empire (not that you could tell from the first episode). The longest running primetime game show to this day, it was something I fell in love with back when GSN ran it almost every day at 3am back in the mid-00s. I spent the last 10 days posting about various moments from the CBS run of the show on my Facebook and this blog (https://jjman920.blogspot.com/2025/02/whats-my-line-75-day-10.html).
What are some of your favorite moments from the series or franchise as a whole? It's okay if they overlap with my own.
Of the ones I didn't talk about, Peter Gabel fooling his mom Arlene (https://youtu.be/wIG4td7p47c?si=s_seFfykNa8_sEBa&t=432) in 1964 was pretty good. I also *love* Phyllis Diller's second appearance (https://youtu.be/UCQEJAox0cs?si=mGoNSVKcptV-J7Hc&t=1010) as a mystery guest and probably should've included it in my countdown. Dorothy nails her quick, but between her laugh and one great joke, she makes the most of a brief appearance.
I'd love to be able to access all of the TV(dot)com episode guide, but it seems not every page works on the Wayback Machine, even ones that it says have snapshots. It just cycles. Does anyone else run into the problem? Also, I seem to remember someone, I want to say Steve Beverly, writing this big, 10 part story about the history of WML that I definitely remember copying to a Word doc and printing out entirely at one point, but I can't find that file anymore. Does anyone have access to that?
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What are some of your favorite moments from the series or franchise as a whole? It's okay if they overlap with my own.
Of the ones I didn't talk about, Peter Gabel fooling his mom Arlene (https://youtu.be/wIG4td7p47c?si=s_seFfykNa8_sEBa&t=432) in 1964 was pretty good. I also *love* Phyllis Diller's second appearance (https://youtu.be/UCQEJAox0cs?si=mGoNSVKcptV-J7Hc&t=1010) as a mystery guest and probably should've included it in my countdown. Dorothy nails her quick, but between her laugh and one great joke, she makes the most of a brief appearance.
Peter Gabel appeared twice; the second time, it was with Bennett Cerf's son (and Bennett had to disqualify himself as he had heard about it from someone else); I think they had just been named co-editors of the Harvard Lampoon.
My favorites: I can think of a few:
* This one is probably on quite a few lists; the "mystery commercial reader" that came onto the set and started doing a commercial ("I'd like to talk to you tonight about..."), only for Daly to call the "extraction team" to get him off
* When Mark Goodson was on the panel, and it started with a mystery guest - Frank Sinatra, who then took Mark's spot on the panel; the second mystery guest was Frank's then-wife Mia Farrow, who signed in as "Mia Sinatra"
* What appears to be a rare personal appearance of any sort by Sir Edmund Hillary; he didn't say very much before he left the stage
* What may have been the first appearance on USA TV of Dudley Moore; he appeared with Peter Cook, who would later become an occasional panelist, and a couple of others as part of the USA tour of Beyond the Fringe
* When the six kids who were, at the time, playing the von Trapp children in The Sound of Music on Broadway appeared; I think that's the most that ever appeared as contestants at once
* The final mystery guest - John Daly himself.
What I don't like: a number of cuts, usually of celebrities being introduced, either on the panel or as mystery guests (John Wayne comes to mind). I am under the impression that they was only one kinescope of each episode available, and the clips were removed to be used in the 25th Anniversary Special that ABC aired in 1975, but ended up on the cutting room floor.
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When it comes to the CBS series, I love Groucho Marx's episode and how his presence on the panel clashes with the high-class manner of the show to make for a very entertaining half-hour.
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I love that What's My Line got to do an entire farewell episode. As I mentioned on your Facebook countdown, I hate that I've Got a Secret was not granted the same opportunity.
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What I don't like: a number of cuts, usually of celebrities being introduced, either on the panel or as mystery guests (John Wayne comes to mind). I am under the impression that they was only one kinescope of each episode available, and the clips were removed to be used in the 25th Anniversary Special that ABC aired in 1975, but ended up on the cutting room floor.
Its actually possible to splice the missing bits used in the 25th anniversary special back into the original episode kinescope through digital editing. That's been done with a couple episodes (The Marian Anderson one where the MG segment was reassembled in the wrong sequence and the Peter, Paul and Mary episode which was missing a question by Woody Allen during a contestant segment).
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I grew up with the syndie version. I liked it when a guest related to a panelist would appear. Allen Ludden didn't guess his wife Betty White. Alan Alda didn't guess his father Robert Alda.
Once when Larry Storch was a MG, he did such a dead-on impression of Paul Lynde that three of the four panelists took off their blindfolds, thinking it was him.
Once when a MG didn't show up, host Wally Bruner did double duty as the MG.
I though the Who's Who segment was a nice addition to the show.
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On this 75th anniversary I would note these stats:
The oldest surviving Mystery Guests (by date of 1st appearance)
-Margaret O'Brien (February 25, 1951)
-Lee Meriwether (as Miss America, 1955) (September 12, 1954)
-Terry Moore (March 20, 1955)
-Peggy King (August 28, 1955)
-Kim Novak (February 5, 1956)
And these are all of the known surviving guest panelists (Anka, Shatner and Gillette are the only ones from this group to have been on more than once)
-Pat Boone (December 7, 1958)
-Joan Collins (December 6, 1959)
-Paul Anka (May 31, 1964)
-William Shatner (January 24, 1965)
-Anita Gillette (April 18, 1965)
-Pia Lindstrom (December 4, 1966)
-Aliza Kashi (January 15, 1967)
-Michele Lee (April 16, 1967)
-Barbara Feldon (June 11, 1967)
-Joel Grey (July 30, 1967)
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Jeannie Carson, who was a guest panelist on February 24th, 1957 (a rare episode with three female panelists - I'm only aware of one other), is also still alive.
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IMDB says Jeannie Carson died in August 2022 at age 94 though I notice Wikipedia doesn't have that, but that was why I hesitated to list her.
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Jeannie Carson, who was a guest panelist on February 24th, 1957 (a rare episode with three female panelists - I'm only aware of one other), is also still alive.
Weirdly, IMDB has a death date for her of August 1, 2022. That does not appear to be accurate, as there are no obituaries for her on newspapers.com.
/Let the historical record show Eric and I posted at just about the same time.
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I can't find any obituaries for her, and given that her husband was a notable performer himself (and passed in 2021), I'd say that she's still alive.
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If you count the syndicated run, a shocking moment was Frank Zappa as a Mystery Guest.
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When it comes to the CBS series, I love Groucho Marx's episode and how his presence on the panel clashes with the high-class manner of the show to make for a very entertaining half-hour.
That was great. Ernie Kovacs was a great panelist, too.
It’s hard for me to remember favorite episodes. Thanks, you guys, for pointing some out. One started me down the rabbit hole to find a gem from 10/4/64 in which Steve Allen is the Mystery Guest and Mr. Daly gives it away.
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One of my favorite moments. The final contestant is a lady barber and John slyly says the questioning will begin with Abe Burrows, who was bereft of hair and the audience started laughing hysterically which Burrows caught onto immediately.
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What do we think of the three emcees the show had: John Daly, Wally Bruner, Larry Blyden?
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What do we think of the three emcees the show had: John Daly, Wally Bruner, Larry Blyden?
While John and Larry were good fits for the show as it existed at the time, I felt like Wally was too dry and clashed with the up-to-date feeling that the show was trying to move into at the time.
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What do we think of the three emcees the show had: John Daly, Wally Bruner, Larry Blyden?
While John and Larry were good fits for the show as it existed at the time, I felt like Wally was too dry and clashed with the up-to-date feeling that the show was trying to move into at the time.
I want to say that John and Larry were like the Richard Dawson and Ray Combs of Feud -- they both had their unique styles in hosting the show and took the show in different directions within the format.
Whereas John Charles had specific ways of responding to the panel and certain celebs in a more formal & technical manner, Larry seemed to make it more laid back and put more of a spotlight on the panel than on himself.
Wally was the Rolf Benirschke of Goodson Todman. I don't know why they thought he would make a good game show host.
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Bruner's background as a news anchor and White House correspondent, effectively the same as that of Daly, was why they thought he'd be right for the show. They wanted in effect a Daly type at the outset.
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Haven’t seen too much of Wally, but I loved the eloquence John brought to the show. Conversely, Larry moved the show into the 70s very well, and I would’ve loved to have seen him on subsequent shows throughout the decade and into the 80s.
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I don’t think Wally was that bad. He’s not a Daly, and his voice can grate at times, but he did a perfectly
capable job. As did his successor.
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John - Scholarly, kept the game moving, but also joined in the laughs too and used his wizardly way with words to confound the panel. My favorite!
Wally - Affable fellow who kept the game moving and let everyone else shine, but didn't leave a lasting impression.
Larry - Laid-back charm, added a more people-friendly vibe, yet didn't try to hog the camera. That seemed to be a good formula standard for an emcee of a celebrity-heavy format. It's a shame we didn't get to see more of that potential.
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What do we think of the three emcees the show had: John Daly, Wally Bruner, Larry Blyden?
While John and Larry were good fits for the show as it existed at the time, I felt like Wally was too dry and clashed with the up-to-date feeling that the show was trying to move into at the time.
Agreed. John was witty, charming and the undisputed master of double speak.
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Seeing a BUZZR bumper with Althea Gibson made me wonder, did the CBS runs of WML? or the others have any Black panelists? This isn’t to condemn them, I’m just curious. Maybe Nipsey toward the end of the run?
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Seeing a BUZZR bumper with Althea Gibson made me wonder, did the CBS runs of WML? or the others have any Black panelists? This isn’t to condemn them, I’m just curious. Maybe Nipsey toward the end of the run?
Harry Belafonte was a panelist at least once.
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Seeing a BUZZR bumper with Althea Gibson made me wonder, did the CBS runs of WML? or the others have any Black panelists? This isn’t to condemn them, I’m just curious. Maybe Nipsey toward the end of the run?
I've Got a Secret once had Ruby Dee fill in for Bess Myerson. I think that's the only time.
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Seeing a BUZZR bumper with Althea Gibson made me wonder, did the CBS runs of WML? or the others have any Black panelists? This isn’t to condemn them, I’m just curious. Maybe Nipsey toward the end of the run?
IIRC, Nipsey was a panelist on the syndie WML. He was never on Daly's version.
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Harry Belafonte-6/11/61 and 10/21/62
Sammy Davis, Jr.-10/11/64.
Joan Murray-8/20/67 (The last "First time" guest panelist in the history of the CBS run. She was a journalist with WCBS-TV at the time)
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Joan Murray-8/20/67 (The last "First time" guest panelist in the history of the CBS run. She was a journalist with WCBS-TV at the time)
You wonder if the scheduled female panelist canceled on short notice. I was born and raised in the NYC area, and I had never heard of Joan Murray until reading this, although admittedly she left WCBS when I turned seven. (I just watched the intro of her episode on YouTube -- I wonder why her panel card said "Joan Murray" instead of "Miss Murray.")
Back to the subject at hand, I don't get the sense that Daly was super popular with the G-T family. Gil Fates' book seemed rather reserved about his contributions to the show (whereas he positively gushes over Larry Blyden), and Paul Alter's book proposal listed Daly as one of the worst people he had to work with (the others: Frank Sinatra, Steve & Eydie, Dawson, and Barker). TV Tropes claims (with no evidence) CBS discussed doing a M-F version of Line in 1963 but decided not to go forward when Daly refused to take part.
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How can one obtain a copy of Paul Alter's book proposal?
What was Paul's grievance against Barker?
Was 1963 the year CBS took over ownership of WML?
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Back to the subject at hand, I don't get the sense that Daly was super popular with the G-T family. Gil Fates' book seemed rather reserved about his contributions to the show (whereas he positively gushes over Larry Blyden), and Paul Alter's book proposal listed Daly as one of the worst people he had to work with (the others: Frank Sinatra, Steve & Eydie, Dawson, and Barker). TV Tropes claims (with no evidence) CBS discussed doing a M-F version of Line in 1963 but decided not to go forward when Daly refused to take part.
When I interviewed Don Morrow 10 years ago, he told me this story--CBS called Allen Ludden one day during the run of College Bowl and asked if he was interested in becoming the new host of What's My Line? The network and Goodson/Todman were apparently having some issues with John during negotiations and John was starting to play hardball. Allen said yes, he'd be interested in taking over the show, and pretty much the moment that John Daly learned that Allen was interested in the job, he signed his new contract. So Goodson-Todman was absolutely ready to unload him at one point.
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Joan Murray-8/20/67 (The last "First time" guest panelist in the history of the CBS run. She was a journalist with WCBS-TV at the time)
You wonder if the scheduled female panelist canceled on short notice. I was born and raised in the NYC area, and I had never heard of Joan Murray until reading this, although admittedly she left WCBS when I turned seven. (I just watched the intro of her episode on YouTube -- I wonder why her panel card said "Joan Murray" instead of "Miss Murray.")
This episode was pretaped on June 4, 1967. On the live program that aired later that night, another female news reporter, Pia Lindstrom (daughter of Ingrid Bergman) was the guest panelist so Murray's appearance was clearly a case of splitting the difference with female journalist guest panelists. This episode was also taped before the 7/9/67 program where Henry Morgan stepped on Bennett's intro of John with disdain to John's ire.
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Was 1963 the year CBS took over ownership of WML?
Several years earlier. Sale was publicized in newspapers in early July of 1958.
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Was 1963 the year CBS took over ownership of WML?
Several years earlier. Sale was publicized in newspapers in early July of 1958.
When did Garry Moore (dba Telecast Enterprises) assume ownership of IGAS?
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When did Garry Moore (dba Telecast Enterprises) assume ownership of IGAS?
That I can tell you exactly. The "Telecast Enterprises" title card was seen for the first time on the December 16, 1959 episode. Newspaper articles (always brief) don't mention the switch until early 1960.
I don't know if we've talked about this, but there's also a newspaper interview with Garry from a couple years later which says that he purchased (for $1000) the rights to What's My Line?, but that the deal wouldn't take effect until 1970.
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I don't know if we've talked about this, but there's also a newspaper interview with Garry from a couple years later which says that he purchased (for $1000) the rights to What's My Line?, but that the deal wouldn't take effect until 1970.
Is that the reason why Goodson could never do another revival of WML after the syndicated run ended in 1975?
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I don't know if we've talked about this, but there's also a newspaper interview with Garry from a couple years later which says that he purchased (for $1000) the rights to What's My Line?, but that the deal wouldn't take effect until 1970.
Is that the reason why Goodson could never do another revival of WML after the syndicated run ended in 1975?
I do not claim to understand the ins and outs of who owned what when. If that date is right, and if nothing changed, Garry's deal would have taken effect during the third season of the syndicated show. Gil Fates in his 1978 book says something about the rights finally ending up in the hands of a conglomerate. Maybe Garry sold out, taking a big return on his $1000 gamble and stepping away.
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I do not claim to understand the ins and outs of who owned what when. If that date is right, and if nothing changed, Garry's deal would have taken effect during the third season of the syndicated show. Gil Fates in his 1978 book says something about the rights finally ending up in the hands of a conglomerate. Maybe Garry sold out, taking a big return on his $1000 gamble and stepping away.
Garry's investment and acquisition of the show wasn't really a gamble on his part. Ira Skutch touches on this in his autobiography, and I just dug it out to refresh my memory...When G-T sold the rights to What's My Line? and I've Got a Secret to CBS, they did so because of some incentive in tax laws regarding capital gains. The IRS reviewed the business deal and made some sort of ruling that neither G/T nor CBS would be subject to the tax benefits unless there was a third party involved in the deal, so Garry Moore got lassoed in and was made the third party so that everybody would make a nice chunk of money from the transaction. That's as much detail as Ira offers, so no follow-up questions, please.
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How can one obtain a copy of Paul Alter's book proposal?
What was Paul's grievance against Barker?
Was 1963 the year CBS took over ownership of WML?
I was shown the proposal in 2003 or thereabouts, because people at the publishing house where I worked knew I was a game show fan. (It was not St. Martin's Press; it was a much smaller house out here in Chicagoland.) Had to give the proposal back after I read it, which is SOP. It wasn't much more than an outline -- I don't think there was even a sample chapter.