The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: wdm1219inpenna on January 12, 2025, 07:30:25 AM
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This is something I've been wanting to try for some time now.
I would like to compare various game play elements with two similar shows, as well as hosts, sound effects, announcers and music.
Password Plus hosts were Allen Ludden, then Bill Cullen substituted when Allen was ill, Allen came back, sadly took ill again and Tom Kennedy ended up taking over as host for the remainder of the series. All three did a sensational job in their own right.
Bert Convy was a friendly host but he seemed a bit too much of a "chatty Cathy" for my liking and clowned around a bit too much for my taste. Bert also was notorious for giving away puzzle answers far too often. I know Allen and Tom had that happen on occasion on Password Plus, I don't recall Bill Cullen ever doing that, but Bert did so far too often in my opinion.
Advantage for hosting - Password Plus
Game Play - Password Plus had the option to either pass or play on a password, Super Password did not have that option which took away some of the fun of strategic playing. The end game was similar except Super Password had a progressive jackpot where Plus did not until late in its run. I did like that Super Password had an added mini-bonus game known as the CA$HWORD...that proved rather exciting.
Advantage - Tie
Scoring - Password Plus' original scoring system worked nicely, $100 for the first two puzzles then $200 for the last two, first to $300 won. Nice and simple. Later in the show's run, they gunked up the works by having the first three puzzles worth $100 then remaining puzzles worth $200. This could at times require as many as six puzzles to be played before being able to play the Alphabetics end game and made the front game drag on far too long. Super Password's scoring system in the front game was better to me. The first game was a "warm up" of sorts, worth $100 which didn't really matter for the scoring system. After the $100 puzzle was played, it became basically a best 2 out of 3 match. I also liked that Super Password had the contestants switch partners after the $200 puzzle. Plus did not do that until late in its run with the long dragged out front game.
Advantage - Super Password
End Game - Essentially the same exact bonus game, Password Plus was "Alphabetics" while Super Password's end game was just "Super Password", kind of meh. Both required ten passwords to be solved within a 60 second time limit, both had those ten words in alphabetical order running from A through J or B through K or Q though Z, etc. If an illegal clue was given during Password Plus, a 20 percent penalty for the top prize was applied, so a $5,000 win could be reduced to $4,000 or even $3,000. In both versions every solved word scored $100 for the contestant. With Super Password though, one illegal clue and the top prize was out of play entirely which I thought was better. Both clocks had similar sound effects with the beeping during the counting down. I rather liked the wall on Password Plus that opened up to show the Alphabetics game board vs. nothing with Super Password. One other thing I really liked better with Password Plus was Allen would almost always ask the celebrity if they had a clue in mind for the first word, then he would say "do you have a second clue"? Allen really seemed to go out of his way to want to help the contestant win the big money.
Advantage - Tie (I honestly cannot decide which end game was better, both had pros and cons that equal out in my humble opinion).
Theme Music - Advantage Super Password. Plus had a really great and upbeat theme too but Super Password's theme was fantastic, especially a bonus game win cue...just thinking about it now gives me goosebumps!
The Set - Super Password was more electronic looking and futuristic while Password Plus set was more cozy and all the plus signs on the wall gave it a certain charm. Advantage - Password Plus
Celebrity Guests - It seemed that Password Plus had a better quality of celebrity guests overall who played the game and played it better. I know Elizabeth Montgomery who was a sensational player refused to appear after Allen passed away. Greg Morris was also a terrific player one of my alltime favorites. Super Password seemed to have some really quality celebs but also some who were a bit too clownish to me, so for this category I give the advantage to Password Plus.
I'd love to hear your individual takes about these shows and also feedback as to whether you like this idea of comparing two similar shows or if you dislike this idea.
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I'd say the advantage for the End Game should go to Super Password - it had a progressive jackpot. Password Plus did, too, but it wasn't until near the end of the run if I recall.
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I think we had this exact conversation a year or so ago—you’re free to do whatever you want but it’s a chore to read the long form piece.
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We did. (https://www.gameshowforum.org/index.php/topic,34510.0.html) I don't mind playing this game, but for starters, some kind of header to break up each new point of comparison, and always ending them with ADVANTAGE: [SHOW TITLE], would help readability a ton.
-Jason
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I will say- going back to watch PP in 2025 is a little weird. You can tell that Allen and his regulars are still trying to treat this like a scholarly parlor game being played for low stakes. Maybe that was by design, but considering that the rest of the show's production design is indicative of flashier game shows of that time, it feels a little like watching Mr. Rogers at a disco; you're happy to see the guy, just not in these particular surroundings.
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I will say- going back to watch PP in 2025 is a little weird. You can tell that Allen and his regulars are still trying to treat this like a scholarly parlor game being played for low stakes. Maybe that was by design, but considering that the rest of the show's production design is indicative of flashier game shows of that time, it feels a little like watching Mr. Rogers at a disco; you're happy to see the guy, just not in these particular surroundings.
Allen does come off as the Frasier Crane of the game show set.
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…that the rest of the show's production design is indicative of flashier game shows of that time, it feels a little like watching Mr. Rogers at a disco; you're happy to see the guy, just not in these particular surroundings.
Al wasn’t afraid of a leisure suit, though. Before Plus, Stumpers had a much flashier (and cooler) set.
I like Super Password better in all respects except Ludden’s being gone. The end game was more challenging, and I absolutely love the Cashword. It broke up the show and gave a nod to the harder passwords of yore. Celebrity level was a wash—both had good weeks and bad.
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I think Super Password got the scoring format down a little better. Plus started out simple enough, but once your stakes went from $300 to $500 it slowed things up; whereas before you could decide a match in three puzzles, now you’re playing at least four to even get to a point where someone can win. Granted, Super Password’s system basically made the first puzzle a practice round, but the incremental increase in stakes offset that to me.
While Super Password kept the progressive jackpot, I still have to give a slight nod to Alphabetics because I felt the penalty for illegal clues was, to me, the fairer one (reducing the value of the pot instead of an outright forfeit of the jackpot).
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While Super Password kept the progressive jackpot, I still have to give a slight nod to Alphabetics because I felt the penalty for illegal clues was, to me, the fairer one (reducing the value of the pot instead of an outright forfeit of the jackpot).
To me, both are fair solutions in their own way. I don't want contestants to be at the mercy of whatever celebrity they're playing with that week, but 9 right isn't a win either. Obviously technology has helped, but Password 2024 got it right in throwing the word out and replacing it with a new one.
In retrospect, I'm surprised that considering contestants gave clues for half the game, they weren't afforded that option in either the SP or PP bonus round.
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While Super Password kept the progressive jackpot, I still have to give a slight nod to Alphabetics because I felt the penalty for illegal clues was, to me, the fairer one (reducing the value of the pot instead of an outright forfeit of the jackpot).
To me, both are fair solutions in their own way. I don't want contestants to be at the mercy of whatever celebrity they're playing with that week, but 9 right isn't a win either. Obviously technology has helped, but Password 2024 got it right in throwing the word out and replacing it with a new one.
In retrospect, I'm surprised that considering contestants gave clues for half the game, they weren't afforded that option in either the SP or PP bonus round.
Here is another comparison between P+ & SP:
P+ was able to control the show budget a bit (in Alphabetics) by adjusting the difficulty factor, whereas SP's budget was relatively static due to rollover jackpots in Ca$hword and in the end game.
In P+, the "house" would benefit from either a loss or an illegal clue in the original Alphabetics era as that budgeted money would never be given out. SP could still adjust the difficulty level if they wanted to, but all that did was increase the chances to build up larger bonuses in later games.
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In retrospect, I'm surprised that considering contestants gave clues for half the game, they weren't afforded that option in either the SP or PP bonus round.
I wondered about that too. In Pyramid at the time, most often celebrities gave the clues but at least contestants had the option. It sucks if you got paired with a weaker celebrity and they blew your one chance at it.
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In P+, the "house" would benefit from either a loss or an illegal clue in the original Alphabetics era as that budgeted money would never be given out. SP could still adjust the difficulty level if they wanted to, but all that did was increase the chances to build up larger bonuses in later games.
In re-watching the first few months of Password Plus on GameTV recently, it surprises me how easy most of the Alphabetics rounds were. It seems that nine times out of ten the jackpot was won. I don't recall that kind of ratio later in the series, nor on Super Password.
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I thought PP had better hosting and format before the change to $500 winning the game. SP had the better end game and the Cashword was a nice addition. But Bert was a little too talkative and blurted out answers too often, IMO. Still enjoy seeing both shows on Buzzr.
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The consensus at the time was that Bill Cullen moved the game along too slowly. Watching his shows decades later, it is apparent that he wasted a lot of time making wisecracks and trying in vain to inject levity.
Bert Convy was fantastic on Tattletales but he was out of his league on SP. He was always going for the joke and didn't get that Password was never intended to be a comedy show. Plus, he had an annoying penchant for announcing to the world when he thought he had the answer to a puzzle. Allen had his flaws but overall was better for the format.
The prize budget (money actually awarded) on P+ was remarkably stable at $22,000 per week.
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Bert Convy was fantastic on Tattletales but he was out of his league on SP.
I neither agree or disagree on that, but he made SP in his own image, much like what Ray Combs and Drew Carey did to Feud and Price, accordingly.
Bert did a good job on TT and WLOD because the games did not straddle, and thus he had to keep the games moving in order to end on time.
IMHO, Bert livened things up and slowed the pace down a bit compared to earlier Password incarnations to give contestants to enjoy their time on the show a bit more to give them more than just a quick 10-15 minute experience, like what some of the earliest Passwords seemed to do with Ludden at the helm, and occasionally on P+ when puzzles were solved rather quickly.
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IMHO, Bert livened things up and slowed the pace down a bit compared to earlier Password incarnations to give contestants to enjoy their time on the show a bit more to give them more than just a quick 10-15 minute experience...
Not to mention what that does to the prize budget.
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IMHO, Bert livened things up and slowed the pace down a bit compared to earlier Password incarnations to give contestants to enjoy their time on the show a bit more to give them more than just a quick 10-15 minute experience...
Not to mention what that does to the prize budget.
Those things are not as important as how the audience receives the show.
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While Super Password kept the progressive jackpot, I still have to give a slight nod to Alphabetics because I felt the penalty for illegal clues was, to me, the fairer one (reducing the value of the pot instead of an outright forfeit of the jackpot).
I do agree, but I also think the stiff penalty was a way to balance something that, to me, gave the overall gameplay aspect advantage to Password Plus: the prohibition of opposites.
In Alphabetics, if all you could do was give an opposite at the cost of one-fifth of the jackpot, at least the prize is still appealing. In “The Endgame,” you can give opposites again, but any other goof will cost you severely. I felt the balance was justified to a degree.
The Inquisitive One
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There were also a couple instances in Password Plus where a deliberately illegal clue was given on a word the contestant was stuck on so that way they could get a $4000 jackpot instead of $900. Not exactly the way you should win that much money in a Bonus Game IMO.
Musc wise, "Password Plus" had the better theme.
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What do we all think of P+ banning opposites as clues? I generally prefer it as a show, but I don't like that rule very much.
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LOVE IT. Alternately? Don't use passwords so easily clued.
I'm a bit tweaked when contestants on 25 Words or Less/Fewer use up one of their clues with not, instead of the opposite inflection.
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What do we all think of P+ banning opposites as clues? I generally prefer it as a show, but I don't like that rule very much.
The rule was instituted impulsively and wasn't well thought out.
There are times when you want a password to play quickly, e.g. "east" for "west".
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There were also a couple instances in Password Plus where a deliberately illegal clue was given on a word the contestant was stuck on so that way they could get a $4000 jackpot instead of $900. Not exactly the way you should win that much money in a Bonus Game IMO.
This. What's stopping a celeb with four seconds left from saying "SAY TAXI!" other than probably not getting booked again?
What do we all think of P+ banning opposites as clues? I generally prefer it as a show, but I don't like that rule very much.
The rule was instituted impulsively and wasn't well thought out.
There are times when you want a password to play quickly, e.g. "east" for "west".
How often were there discussions over what were opposites and what were complements? "Ketchup" isn't the opposite of "Mustard" for example.
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How often were there discussions over what were opposites and what were complements? "Ketchup" isn't the opposite of "Mustard" for example.
Practically never.
ISTR "cat" being ruled as the opposite of "dog". Allen challenged this on the air and demanded an explanation of the logic behind the ruling. Ultimately the clue was allowed.
Usually the path of least resistance was for me to keep my mouth shut and not challenge the big mucky-mucks. After all, big mucky-mucks are always right.
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Big mucky-mucky mucks are RARELY right without the skills ofand input from their smurfs . The ones who knew and lived by that were the truly successful.
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Big mucky-mucky mucks are RARELY right without the skills ofand input from their smurfs . The ones who knew and lived by that were the truly successful.
I presume you've never worked for Bobby Sherman or Howard Felsher.
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I know them both and Bobby consults me all the time