The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: wdm1219inpenna on August 10, 2024, 12:00:49 PM
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There could be oodles of things said about this topic regarding various game shows.
In fact, I think I will do separate threads about different game shows both past and present for this.
This thread is devoted to Wheel of Fortune. I may do different threads for different game shows, or if any one of you wants to start a separate thread about other game shows, by all means please do.
One thing I have always wished Wheel of Fortune could do and would do is to show the Used Letter Board for people watching at home or elsewhere. Often times at a restaurant for example if the show is on, it's usually muted. I do like how they now at least show which letter the player called for in the lower left corner of the screen.
Another thing is I wish the show would raise dollar values during subsequent rounds of play. As it is the wheel's template is pretty much $500 to $900 with one large money wedge out there. Would be nice if they could add a $1,250 space, a $1,500 space and maybe even a $2,000 space instead of having so many $500 wedges.
With the minimum dollar value on the wheel now being $500, I also wish they would raise the price of vowels to $500 or even $1,000. $250 made sense 50 years ago but with the elevated money amounts on the wheel, it should be raised, I think $500 is a reasonable price for vowels.
I am glad they got rid of the $1,000 gift tag and the Free Play space on the wheel as well as those 1/2 car tags that they used to have.
I'd also like to see the show have returning champions again. Right now of the 5 big game shows on, only Jeopardy and Family Feud have returning champions. Price is Right and Let's Make A Deal do not lend themselves to having returning champions, but Wheel of Fortune still does.
I'd suggest a 5 day limit for champions unless they win $1,000,000 on the bonus puzzle, then they would retire.
I don't mind the toss-up puzzles, I do like the Triple Toss Up where $10,000 could be won and which could help a player catch up.
I am eager to see the new season with Ryan at the helm to see how he does. I suspect that is about the only change the show will be making for this season.
I'd love to hear your thoughts.
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My longstanding peeve is that the prize puzzle bonus is treated as "score money" to borrow a Dick Clark phrase.
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Returning champions:
The primary two reasons for Wheel's adoption of "no returning champions" (aside from their occasionally pulling the Friday Finals out of mothballs for a couple of themed/celebrity weeks) were 1) Sajak's stated preference against champions (he's noted it in an exhaustive number of interviews), and more importantly 2) allows the show to consolidate the number of taping days from 39 to, as of season 41, just 34. (five weeks of episodes contain shows taped at prior tapings but then aired together). Cutting five taping dates saves on studio time, crew expenses, and more, while spreading out other costs over six shows instead of five.
One of those reasons is now gone, however, to add champions back you also have to likely reinstate those five tape dates. Does the benefit outweigh the cost? Especially in the current TV landscape and the death valley that is the syndication market? For three or five day champions with a limit, the argument is almost assuredly no. For Jeopardy-style unlimited tapings? It's arguably the best change the quiz show's ever made (see: ratings bump for and source of eventual host Ken Jennings, ratings bumps for Holzhauer, Schneider, et al., with it increasing J!'s social media buzz immensely). Wheel doing that, even if it's a more luck-based game, could be an injection of life into the show that justifies the added costs. If they're going to do it, they need to go all in.
Rest of the show:
I despise the Prize Puzzle as it's currently implemented. If they insist on keeping it, it should never ever count as "score money", as the other poster noted using the Pyramid term.
I actually really like the Triple Tossup, especially once it occurred to them to start linking the three puzzles together thematically. I also like having the initial play-in one. Not crazy about the "you get to be interviewed first, and here's $1K" opening one. I'd nix that, bump the other opening one to $3K, and winning it controls both the interview and control for R1 - which I actually liked the one year they did it that way.
They have got to get over their allergy to four-digit wheel values (or at this point, anything outside the $500-$700 range). Low dollar should be whatever the cost of vowels is, and there should be a nice spread up through approx. just over of whatever top dollar is. If R1 is $2500, throw a pair of $1000s, a $1250, and a $1500 on the wheel. R2 for $3500, add on $2000. When you put $5000 on the wheel, add $2500 back. Once you know the puzzle now, there is basically no incentive to spin again and risk it, especially if it's the prize puzzle.
I love the way that the Crossword and Same Letter categories reward having to think about the puzzle slightly out-of-the-box, and I'd love to resurrect categories like Clue and Fill in the Blank that require a little bit of extra-dimensional thinking.
I liked the Free Play wedge, but if it's gone for good, at least bring back the Free Spin token. One of my favorite part of watching shows from the 80s, especially as someone who loathes the shopping round, was watching someone occasionally managing to bank an absurd number of free spin tokens, so if they wanted to go all in on a free spin *wedge* again I wouldn't even mind.
Wild Card should be able to be used for vowels in the bonus round. It should be able to be automatically exchanged for top dollar in the main game since that's the only time people use it anymore, with the catch that if the letter you call with it isn't in the puzzle, it counts as a bankrupt instead of a lost turn.
As much as people don't like to go on game shows to win things outside of cars/cash and occasionally trips, I REALLY miss Wheel's more eccentric prizes and prize packages of the 80s and 90s. I'd love to see them get back to those, with the possible tradeoff that every prize except the cash itself now comes with a base level of cash. ("And for gas money, we've stocked the trunk of this Volvo with good ol' American cash, FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS!"). Pair that with champions and it's a lot more interesting.
For it's faults, the shopping era - and the vastly superior IMO first decade-ish of the cash format - had this whimsy that the show gave up in the late 90s in the name of a more efficient production. I'd just love to see the show try to recapture that.
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As much as people don't like to go on game shows to win things outside of cars/cash and occasionally trips, I REALLY miss Wheel's more eccentric prizes and prize packages of the 80s and 90s. I'd love to see them get back to those, with the possible tradeoff that every prize except the cash itself now comes with a base level of cash. ("And for gas money, we've stocked the trunk of this Volvo with good ol' American cash, FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS!").
Interestingly, many of those more eccentric prizes were items that actually appreciate in value (jewelry, artwork, rare documents, etc.) and some would probably consider them more desirable than trips for that reason. I'd love to see those come back.
Returning champions:
For Jeopardy-style unlimited tapings? It's arguably the best change the quiz show's ever made (see: ratings bump for and source of eventual host Ken Jennings, ratings bumps for Holzhauer, Schneider, et al., with it increasing J!'s social media buzz immensely). Wheel doing that, even if it's a more luck-based game, could be an injection of life into the show that justifies the added costs. If they're going to do it, they need to go all in.
Is there a likelihood of a mega champ on a luck-based game like Wheel? Especially if they continue doing the Prize Puzzle the way they're doing it? Fixing the Prize Puzzle as you said would help, but I still can't imagine someone winning more than five or six games before the wheel starts being unkind.
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They have got to get over their allergy to four-digit wheel values (or at this point, anything outside the $500-$700 range). Low dollar should be whatever the cost of vowels is, and there should be a nice spread up through approx. just over of whatever top dollar is. If R1 is $2500, throw a pair of $1000s, a $1250, and a $1500 on the wheel. R2 for $3500, add on $2000. When you put $5000 on the wheel, add $2500 back. Once you know the puzzle now, there is basically no incentive to spin again and risk it, especially if it's the prize puzzle.
I think it was Adam Nedeff who mentioned on socials that a family member of his noticed how homogeneous the wheel values were, further accentuating that this is a real problem that people outide of us are noticing.
The wheel should be the most fun part of the show and spins short of a penalty space or top dollar are just boring vehicles to the puzzle solving. Chelsea's proposed configuration sounds a-ok to me.
I REALLY miss Wheel's more eccentric prizes and prize packages of the 80s and 90s.
While I'm totally okay with the $42,000 greenhouse going away, I do miss, at base level, some variety. With studies showing that most people value experiences over things, that $50,000 shipboard party might be right at home now. There are plenty of other desirable wheel prizes to add to the main game, and through the tech boom of the last 15 or so years, it seems like a massive miss for Sony to rarely ever include their tech as prize fodder for the show. I surely wouldn't turn my back on a 100'' Bravia television.
Other thoughts:
-The million dollar wedge needs to go. I thought it was cool for a few years, but it's become like Syndicated Millionaire where yeah, it's a prize you offer, but when it hasn't been won in a decade by a civilian, the whole thing feels like an exercise in futility. Plus, game shows in general have gone away from the seven figure jackpot, so Wheel looks tired in comparison by keeping theirs. If you want to up the bucks for the bonus round, just create a Double Jackpot wedge to be collected in the main game.
-I honestly do like the hook of a few recent theme weeks having enhanced bonus round prizes. I liked the Margaritaville Home and the WWE experience, and I LOVED the BetMGM running jackpot. More of that, please.
-Growing up I loved Wheel's set design choices- it always seemed half game show, half Las Vegas casino, and I think it lost some of that when Million Colors of Light became the entire design language. Obviously this is changing as we speak, but I hope the new design permeates more than the puzzle board. Give me more gaudy.
-Vowels need to go up. They should be premium clues, not 5 for $1 in the bargain bin. I know it's stayed the same partially to expedite puzzle solving, but that rationale made sense during a time when we didn't have 9-10 puzzles, not including the bonus puzzle. Speaking of...
-It's time to go back to five cononants and a vowel in the bonus round. When the studio is booing your bonus puzzles and you're one step away from using SEXY PIZZA to save budget, we need a change. Going back to the original recipe allows for fairer puzzle writing and makes the Wild Card a more premium get from the wheel.
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My longstanding problem with Wheel is that it's become comfort food because they won't let the show simply breathe. I've said this here before, but in a universe where so many shows pad to fill an hour, Wheel is the rare case of too much game, and not enough show. The syndicated version doesn't need to expand to an hour, but we also don't need four rounds, plus a half-dozen Toss Ups, and a Final Spin and bonus puzzle. This show lost its personality somewhere in the last 20 years, and didn't seem to get it back until the Celebrity run and during Pat's final weeks because they take the time to stop and talk to the players.
Open with the contestant icebreaker ("We drew numbers to see who would start the game") then play three puzzles. Throw in a Triple Toss Up to get trailing contestants back in the game - I love that they augment a player's total to 10K if they run the table here, then the Final Spin. I do agree the wheel needs more variety, and also agree the Prize Puzzle should not weigh on the score since it more or less determines the day's winner. I love some of the things they've introduced like the Express space or the Crossword puzzles.
More than anything, I want the puzzles to actually feel like normal puzzles. Stop trying to shoehorn adjectives into a puzzle you would never say in real life, esp. during the Prize Puzzle or bonus round. I've also said that Vanna's first puzzle of GENERAL HOSPITAL would now be preceded with "AWARD-WINNING SOAP OPERA". Keep it simple.
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-It's time to go back to five cononants and a vowel in the bonus round. When the studio is booing your bonus puzzles and you're one step away from using SEXY PIZZA to save budget, we need a change. Going back to the original recipe allows for fairer puzzle writing and makes the Wild Card a more premium get from the wheel.
It feels like it's the puzzles themselves more than the free letters though. The Free Six + Four More worked beautifully in the earlier years. "FURY? "BOW-TIE?" Challenging to get, but it didn't usually leave you feeling like the writers were deliberately being rat bastards about it. There was an element of luck with letters, but nothing ever out of bounds - and you always got three chances if you kept winning, so hey.
NOW they're asking contestants to solve, all real examples from this past season: A POPULAR BOUTIQUE, QUICK FAVOR TO ASK, A LIVELY BUNCH OF KIDS (consecutive eps), PAINTING A VIVID PICTURE, FABULOUS SHINDIG, on and on. No wonder the audience is legitimately beginning to turn against them, even the casuals. 6+4 worked just fine IMO until the producers got deliberately obtuse and overly cute about puzzle solutions in the 2000s.
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This board has really had a great number of good threads as of late. I love it.
I honestly don't have much to add except to agree with some points:
- I also hate that the prize puzzle basically decides the game.
- I'm not a fan of the lack of variety with the dollar amounts on the wheel.
$5,000 seemed like a big deal for the nighttime version in 1983. Adjusted for inflation, that's almost $16,000 now. The space doesn't have to be THAT much, but why not raise a little?
One gripe I had for a long time, they actually fixed - if the show is "Wheel of Fortune", why not figure a wheel into the bonus round, too?
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More than anything, I want the puzzles to actually feel like normal puzzles.
Not me. If anything, I want them to get weirder, at least in a sense.
If curating my own games of Wheel of Fortune for fun and discounted general admission for nearly 8 years has taught me anything, it's that Wheel is a game about reading. It doesn't matter if you know a single person, place, or thing (or know the difference between a consonant and a vowel), if you can string words together you have a chance to win. One reason why I think Celebrity Wheel of Fortune has worked despite some janky mechanics is that the puzzles can get incredibly silly. So for me, less "ENJOYING THE LOCAL CUISINE" and more "WAKING UP WITH THE WORST HEADACHE" or "FINALLY DELETING SOCIAL MEDIA."
I think Family Feud and 25WOL are two decent and varied examples of why returning champions isn't a salve
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They have got to get over their allergy to four-digit wheel values (or at this point, anything outside the $500-$700 range). Low dollar should be whatever the cost of vowels is, and there should be a nice spread up through approx. just over of whatever top dollar is. If R1 is $2500, throw a pair of $1000s, a $1250, and a $1500 on the wheel. R2 for $3500, add on $2000. When you put $5000 on the wheel, add $2500 back. Once you know the puzzle now, there is basically no incentive to spin again and risk it, especially if it's the prize puzzle.
For craps and giggles, I looked up a 1975 round one wheel compared to the last several years. I knew there's very little variety today, but I didn't realize that it was nothing over $900 outside of the big money spaces, which is crazy. The early years had several spaces that ended in $25 increments, so while I don't think we need something like a $1,375 space, it would be nice to get away from what they have now.
I think a show that offers up to seven figures every day should be able to go up to $2,000 for R1. Piggybacking off Aaron's point, $300 in '75 is about $1,700 now. Make the $2,500 the Top Dollar Value* in the first round and add $1,000 to the rotation as a regular space........along with values in between like $1,100, $1,250, $1,500, and so forth.
The vowel price still being $250 doesn't really bother me, but if you increase the values on the wheel I'd be fine with vowels being worth $500.
*Or is that already TDV for R1?
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So for me, less "ENJOYING THE LOCAL CUISINE" and more "WAKING UP WITH THE WORST HEADACHE" or "FINALLY DELETING SOCIAL MEDIA."
I looked up an episode from last year. Not counting the Toss-Ups, the puzzles were
Thing: BLUEPRINT FOR SUCCESS (I'd argue that's a Phrase but whatever)
Before and After: ONCE UPON A TIME ZONE
Places: CRYSTAL CLEAR LAGOONS
Person: BLUE-RIBBON WINNER
Bonus round Phrase: PAY THEM A VISIT
I've seen worse arrangements (see Chelsea's examples), but outside of the first two rounds it's still a little too quirky for me. The bonus round puzzle feels clunky in a way I can't put my finger on. Maybe if it were only one puzzle like that per game I wouldn't mind as much.
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This might be off the reservation, but ok. Round one starts with $2500 top value, this escalates by that much with each puzzle solved. (either always a $0 toss-up for control or move through the panel). Yes, West Virginia, this means that there could be "round five, $12,500 is our top dollar value.")
I think I've mentioned this to Adam, but if it's mine to do round three becomes the trippy round. Amounts alternate from four figures, to $17 or $295, then something people would be more accustomed to. Having one third of the amounts between $1,000 and $2,500 would allow someone the chance to mount a comeback with a good run. Two bankrupt, two lose-a-finger spaces on the wheel, maybe something like minus $1,000 or steal cash for filling in a space. Follow your bliss. Perhaps there could be "one free solve" on the wheel as a spiffy prize. Surprise, Jackpot, Conjoined Twins Double Play--do whatever you want. Sprinkle liberally throughout.
When time is running short we move into the Countdown Round. Most money so far has to solve two puzzles, second three and top four or five, less one for whoever grabbed the token in round three. Countdown to zero and you come back the next day, until the eighty-game winner collapses from exhaustion or decides to cash out because kids have been saying good night to a picture frame. Everyone keeps what they could bag for a correct solve.
And, scene.
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With the caveat that I'm not a regular viewer...
Based on the thread so far, maybe I'm in the minority, but I do not like the crossword. It feels gimmicky (look at us spell words vertically on our puzzle board!), it feels restrictive because one or two of the words has to be three or four letters long, and for a show that tries to cram as many letters into puzzles as possible, there are very few consonants to uncover (what with the overlapping). If a contestant can't figure out one word because it's mostly unique letters, there are fewer context clues and it doesn't allow for the same satisfying sense of superiority from the home viewer. Once every few years, you get that awkward moment when a contestant instinctively throws in an "and" and loses because of it. And listening to somebody solve the puzzle by saying four random words in an order that isn't necessarily the order I the viewer am processing them feels less definitive.
I too dislike the forced whimsy. A couple of years ago, I was watching Celebrity Wheel of Fortune with a friend who doesn't regularly watch Wheel, and when he was trying to figure out the Phrase and found out it was one of those uncommonly expressed thoughts (the category should more accurately be Sentence), he felt bamboozled -- he was expecting Phrase to be a phrase the average person has heard of. If the show wants to be cute and clever, they have to warn the audience ahead of time (see Before & After, which is a perfectly fine category).
I've long advocated for a wider spread of dollar values on the wheel, although not as high as Chelsea is proposing (if the top dollar value is $5,000, a $2,500 wedge makes the top dollar value less special). I'd go as low as one or two $200 spaces... make buying a vowel mean something.
I think the genie is out of the bottle on bonus round letter selection. If only allowed five consonants and a vowel, 99% of contestants would go back to RSTLNE (which is why the rule was changed in the first place). Yeah, it would allow for difficult bonus puzzles that aren't tenuously connected adjectives and nouns, but it ain't gonna happen. Does the show gain anything by letting the contestants choose the bonus round category? No one in their right mind chooses Thing, and before category selection was implemented, Thing was how the show got a lot of its bonus round losses.
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*Or is that already TDV for R1?
$2500 is already TDV. Couldn’t tell you exactly when they got rid of the $1000 space but we may be closing in on 20 years since its retirement. It was definitely gone by the time they upped the Mystery wedges from $500 to $1000.
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I've long advocated for a wider spread of dollar values on the wheel, although not as high as Chelsea is proposing (if the top dollar value is $5,000, a $2,500 wedge makes the top dollar value less special). I'd go as low as one or two $200 spaces... make buying a vowel mean something.
When the nighttime version debuted they replaced the $2000 space from the daytime version with $5000 and still had a $1500 space. I would maybe go back to that kind of configuration. I agree that it should be special, but it's too big a jump from $900 to $5000 without something in between - at least one other four-figure amount.
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I've long advocated for a wider spread of dollar values on the wheel, although not as high as Chelsea is proposing (if the top dollar value is $5,000, a $2,500 wedge makes the top dollar value less special). I'd go as low as one or two $200 spaces... make buying a vowel mean something.
When the nighttime version debuted they replaced the $2000 space from the daytime version with $5000 and still had a $1500 space. I would maybe go back to that kind of configuration. I agree that it should be special, but it's too big a jump from $900 to $5000 without something in between - at least one other four-figure amount.
I think if $2000 and $1500 could share a wheel, then so could $5000 and $2500. But in lieu thereof, $2000 could make a comeback.
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I think if $2000 and $1500 could share a wheel, then so could $5000 and $2500. But in lieu thereof, $2000 could make a comeback.
One thing that I think more people notice than they imagine is that at least on NBC daytime and even nighttime, the lower money amounts escalated as well (and the evening shows just plunked down a sparkly wedge on the R1 and R2 wheels.)
That escalation of stakes at every level increases the excitement more than just having a $5,000 wheel where everything else is $500 to $850.
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There's a nighttime episode from a couple months after Wheel switched to the cash format where, when they get to round 5, they move the $5000 wedge to uncover the $2K wedge from the daytime show, but ALSO keep $1500 on the wheel.
Having $5K, $2K, and $1500 on the wheel at the same time (but also still two bankrupts and a Lose a Turn) makes for such interesting gameplay, and whether by accident or as an experiment, it's something I wish they'd continued doing or eventually even brought to round 4.
Screenshot from credits (also one of the last known times they used the chroma key shot in the credits at night)
(https://i.imgur.com/U3r9z7S.jpeg)
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There's a nighttime episode from a couple months after Wheel switched to the cash format where, when they get to round 5, they move the $5000 wedge to uncover the $2K wedge from the daytime show, but ALSO keep $1500 on the wheel.
Having $5K, $2K, and $1500 on the wheel at the same time (but also still two bankrupts and a Lose a Turn) makes for such interesting gameplay, and whether by accident or as an experiment, it's something I wish they'd continued doing or eventually even brought to round 4.
I'd take the $1500 and $2000 in Round 3, and $1500 and $2500 in Round 4.
I understand the need to put in more puzzles in a half-hour; a lack of a diverse wheel (in terms of spaces) the competitiveness (especially if you have runaway games fueled by Extra Wheel and R3 Prizes).
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Added/adjusted wheel values?
R1: $1000/$2500 TDV
R2: Mystery $1000/$1500/$3500 TDV
R3: $1000/$1500/$2000/$5000 TDV
R4: $1000/$1500/$2000/$10,000 TDV
And I'm upping vowels to $1000. Only cash won determines the winner (so Prize Puzzle is a bonus).
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If it’s Dream Wheel why is everyone keeping what is by far the most hated element of the show.
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If it’s Dream Wheel why is everyone keeping what is by far the most hated element of the show.
I agree. Why can't the contestants.draw lots before the show and the winner gets the #1/Red, runner up gets #2/Yellow and the third gets the #3/Blue position? No need.for the buzz-ins at all, let alone multiple.buzz-ins, when the freakin' game is WHEEL of Fortune.
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Take a page out of the recent UK revival by not including prizes as part of a player's running total to determine a winner. Get a prize off the wheel, make it count as, say, $750 a letter. It may encourage longer game play and bank building during rounds, which doesn't seem to exist these days. (I don't watch the show that much, but I do shake my head when a contestant asks to solve and they've left open a board, with, for instance, three Gs or four Ws still available).
Crazy idea time -- the show goes viral when a contestant makes a correct solve with just one or two letters showing (NEW BABY BUGGY, for example). In the main game, make a one-letter solve worth a significant bonus that's not included in the player's running total. A new car, perhaps? A five-figure Amazon gift card? Or an escalating jackpot that starts at $10,000 and you add $1K every show there's no solve?
JD
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If it’s Dream Wheel why is everyone keeping what is by far the most hated element of the show.
I agree. Why can't the contestants.draw lots before the show and the winner gets the #1/Red, runner up gets #2/Yellow and the third gets the #3/Blue position? No need.for the buzz-ins at all, let alone multiple.buzz-ins, when the freakin' game is WHEEL of Fortune.
I don't think that's what Travis was talking about.
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It wasn't. For every person who says "The Prize Puzzle is unbalanced or game-breaking!" nobody is saying to send it off to the island of misfit formats.
Maybe they're implying it but I'm not inferring it.
How is there a runner-up from drawing lots? You just grab little plastic beads or colored marbles. Who cares.
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And it's not like gimmicks haven't come and gone before on the show. If the Prize Puzzle was quietly retired, and especially if it was replaced with a wheel prize, no viewers would bat an eyelash.
I'd imagine taking away the Million Dollar bonus round would be a lot more challenging. Is there any case of a show offering a $1 million prize and then no longer offering it? Or even $100,000? GSN Pyramid is the only example that jumps right to mind.
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Million Dollar Password deciding to become Regular Password for $25K.
Do the Primetime TPiR specials count?
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I'd imagine taking away the Million Dollar bonus round would be a lot more challenging. Is there any case of a show offering a $1 million prize and then no longer offering it? Or even $100,000? GSN Pyramid is the only example that jumps right to mind.
I was going to say DOND, but I checked and the primetime/syndicated runs aired concurrently; for some reason I always thought that the latter didn't start until NBC had canceled it.
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Million Dollar Password deciding to become Regular Password for $25K.
Do the Primetime TPiR specials count?
Two good examples that I missed.
I'd imagine taking away the Million Dollar bonus round would be a lot more challenging. Is there any case of a show offering a $1 million prize and then no longer offering it? Or even $100,000? GSN Pyramid is the only example that jumps right to mind.
I was going to say DOND, but I checked and the primetime/syndicated runs aired concurrently; for some reason I always thought that the latter didn't start until NBC had canceled it.
Yeah, I thought of Weakest Link as another example, but like DoND, that was more of a daytime/nighttime thing.
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Weakest Link actually increased the total prize in the second season.
Let’s Ask America had no problem lopping thirty percent off its grand prize, and Hollywood Squares moved the car to th3 third bonus win, though the cars became more luxurious.
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Playing a full Round 4 before Final Spin is getting rarer and rarer these days. What should be the most exciting round with the biggest money is now an afterthought. Pull the $5000 space back to Round 3, keep $2500 and $3500 in rounds 1 and 2, respectively. Put the mystery wedges in every round so that there's always at least a $10000 or $1000 space in play. Round 4's now your overflow game/Final Spin game without taking away its best elements.
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Is there any case of a show offering a $1 million prize and then no longer offering it?
American Ninja Warrior is reportedly about to do just that (reformatting from "guaranteed $100K, possible $1M" to "guaranteed $250K period") next season.
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Is there any case of a show offering a $1 million prize and then no longer offering it?
American Ninja Warrior is reportedly about to do just that (reformatting from "guaranteed $100K, possible $1M" to "guaranteed $250K period") next season.
What's this then? Whoever is nearest to climbing the rope or has the best time/makes it furthest on sage three wins the metaphorical briefcase full o' cash, irrespective of whether someone qualifies for the final ascent?
Weak, weak and lame. I understand why the show has evolved from a raft of people challenging the course and its win-and-in, but I think this would neuter the whole point.
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Playing a full Round 4 before Final Spin is getting rarer and rarer these days. What should be the most exciting round with the biggest money is now an afterthought. Pull the $5000 space back to Round 3, keep $2500 and $3500 in rounds 1 and 2, respectively. Put the mystery wedges in every round so that there's always at least a $10000 or $1000 space in play. Round 4's now your overflow game/Final Spin game without taking away its best elements.
Why not just have them as a standard $1,000?
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What's this then? Whoever is nearest to climbing the rope or has the best time/makes it furthest on sage three wins the metaphorical briefcase full o' cash, irrespective of whether someone qualifies for the final ascent?
What I've heard is that Mt. Midoriyama is being completely removed and it's just going to be a matter of who wins a final head-to-head stage run.
(Agreed on your opinion.)
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What I've heard is that Mt. Midoriyama is being completely removed and it's just going to be a matter of who wins a final head-to-head stage run.
Yikes. I had felt the show was flagging post-pandemic, but this feels like a downward trajectory that's inescapable. That being said, you can't argue with getting 2 decades out of a concept that started on 4th-tier cable.
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I have a few thoughts, some of which are along the same line of what you all have said:
-Shake up the Wheel values considerably. I'd be fine with sub-$500 values and I'd be fine with >$1000 values. Do this for every round. Mix it up. Make it interesting.
-Replace the Prize Puzzle with a "$5000 bonus" opportunity. One of the first three rounds has a bonus attached - either one of the standard bonus categories (Clue, Fill in the Blank, etc.), the Puzzler (I know that wasn't hugely popular, but it isn't the worst idea and adds variety), or a bonus question appended to a regular puzzle. This is substantially less of a hit to the budget than the Prize Puzzle, both because of the maximum value ($35,000 minimum now for a five-day week vs. $25,000 maximum with this) and the fact that it won't be won every day. Plus, it breaks the game a bit less, it's not in the same round every day, and probably encourages more variety and creativity with the puzzles. It would also potentially be a surprise in the first two rounds if it was the Puzzler (I would go back to not having it announced until after the puzzle is solved) or the bonus question, which means that you won't have contestants solving a puzzle for $500 over and over again.
-Drop the first two Toss-Ups. Either keep the Triple Toss-Up (and make it $1000 apiece with a $2000 bonus for the sweep) or go back to one TU for $1000 (both options before R4).
-Figure out some way to offer better category options for the Bonus Round. After Season 35 (the first season where this was a feature), the options quickly went downhill and have stayed there since. Sure, contestants often make terrible choices, but that is no reason to have Thing(s)/Phrase/(Third option) 90% of the time.
-Add some more variety to the Bonus Envelope options. We've gotten confirmation that the car returned from this past week's tapings, so that's a start, but even then, there are only five given options at any one time (40K/50/75/Car/Top Dollar). That's pretty slim pickings. I don't think we need to go back to Shipboard Parties and Rolexes again, but there is definitely room to expand. I like others' suggestions of a smaller prize or two ($20-30K) paired with some cash.
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I have a few thoughts, some of which are along the same line of what you all have said:
-Shake up the Wheel values considerably. I'd be fine with sub-$500 values and I'd be fine with >$1000 values. Do this for every round. Mix it up. Make it interesting.
-Replace the Prize Puzzle with a "$5000 bonus" opportunity. One of the first three rounds has a bonus attached - either one of the standard bonus categories (Clue, Fill in the Blank, etc.), the Puzzler (I know that wasn't hugely popular, but it isn't the worst idea and adds variety), or a bonus question appended to a regular puzzle. This is substantially less of a hit to the budget than the Prize Puzzle, both because of the maximum value ($35,000 minimum now vs. $25,000 maximum with this) and the fact that it won't be won every day. Plus, it breaks the game a bit less, it's not in the same round every day, and probably encourages more variety and creativity with the puzzles. It would also potentially be a surprise in the first two rounds if it was the Puzzler (I would go back to not having it announced until after the puzzle is solved) or the bonus question, which means that you won't have contestants solving a puzzle for $500 over and over again.
I thought the Puzzler was fine. I might actually convert the goody wedge into a jackpot question as opposed to have it every day. Maybe.
I like the idea of the question puzzle. I enjoyed the clue and fill in the number. Heck, make one puzzle an Only Connection for all I care.
(hm, that gives me an idea..)
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-Replace the Prize Puzzle with a "$5000 bonus" opportunity. [...] This is substantially less of a hit to the budget than the Prize Puzzle, both because of the maximum value ($35,000 minimum now for a five-day week vs. $25,000 maximum with this) and the fact that it won't be won every day.
I wanted to chime in to remind us the trips are sponsored, so their cost to production is less than their announced value -- if they cost the show anything at all. And if the trip is refused, it definitely costs the show nothing.
But aside from that reminder, I like this idea quite a bit. There's plenty of other ways to do the Wheel Watchers Club tie-in, if the prize puzzle one goes away.
-Jason
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I know people want cash over cars and other prizes but I’d still bring back shopping, in the form of what they did for Retro Week about 25 years ago and as an individual round. Put a “Shopping” space on the wheel and call it a “gift card” worth $2,500 a letter.
Solve the puzzle without going Bankrupt and you get to go shopping from the “Culver City Marketplace” at center stage (or on the big screen). However, the gift card amount doesn’t go to your score and once you buy a prize it’s yours to keep. If you have anything left over it goes on a Visa gift card. Let the prize description(s) take the place of the first two Toss-Ups.
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-Replace the Prize Puzzle with a "$5000 bonus" opportunity. [...] This is substantially less of a hit to the budget than the Prize Puzzle, both because of the maximum value ($35,000 minimum now for a five-day week vs. $25,000 maximum with this) and the fact that it won't be won every day.
I wanted to chime in to remind us the trips are sponsored, so their cost to production is less than their announced value -- if they cost the show anything at all. And if the trip is refused, it definitely costs the show nothing.
But aside from that reminder, I like this idea quite a bit. There's plenty of other ways to do the Wheel Watchers Club tie-in, if the prize puzzle one goes away.
-Jason
The WWC tie-in was dropped awhile ago - I want to say it's been nearly a decade. The only time those folks have a chance to win is if the Mystery Wedge is won (about ten times a season) and during the two Secret Santa weeks. They've really pared it back.
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The wheel has long needed a $10,000 space that counts for each letter. Lower the minimum bonus amount at the same time. Raise the price of vowels--it'll give Ryan 10 seconds to generate a laugh when announcing it.
Something Travis said gave me an idea, maybe a bad one: What if they held the toss-ups for a final round? Play three usual wheel rounds, the last possibly truncated, then after the commercial play three toss-ups for escalating dough. I don't like toss-ups, but this way they have a function and could generate a thrilling climax. Maybe the last is for a big prize, the value of which is revealed after its won, when the final scores are tallied.
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The wheel has long needed a $10,000 space that counts for each letter. Lower the minimum bonus amount at the same time.
I would much rather see the TDV stay at $5000 and...
1: see that money spread out on the wheel, and
2: see bigger puzzles in round 4.
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Something Travis said gave me an idea, maybe a bad one: What if they held the toss-ups for a final round? Play three usual wheel rounds, the last possibly truncated, then after the commercial play three toss-ups for escalating dough. I don't like toss-ups, but this way they have a function and could generate a thrilling climax. Maybe the last is for a big prize, the value of which is revealed after its won, when the final scores are tallied.
I've heard something like this before, but I believe it was in the vein of "Tossups meet Split Second Countdown Round".
Either way, I don't know how I feel about tossups being the final stage of the game. I'm on the fence.
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On the surface I like the idea, but it would probably require not making the Prize Puzzle count towards the score. If you use the current Triple Tossup rules, a clean sweep is worth $10K. If the leader is winning in a runaway game it kinda becomes anticlimactic if he or she answers the first puzzle correctly. Reminds me of the final three questions in the early days of $ale.
I’m with Jeremy in being on the fence, because a $(1)400 Final Spin is equally anticlimactic and really just becomes an opportunity for someone trailing to pick up pocket change.
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I've heard something like this before, but I believe it was in the vein of "Tossups meet Split Second Countdown Round".
Either way, I don't know how I feel about tossups being the final stage of the game. I'm on the fence.
That's ok. I don't know if people would love my daytime idea of first to solve three puzzles plays an endgame and meets two new challengers, and the TDV goes up throughout the show then resets to $750 the next day.
And yes, Toss Up Count Down is mine. TM, patent pending, not valid in Connecticut or Vermont.
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I don't think there's anything wrong with the end of the game as it is. If you've played well enough to have a runaway game, then more power to you. (Unless that runaway comes from the Prize Puzzle, which is why I advocate getting rid of it.)
In my opinion, an end game that doesn't involve the wheel in any way is not it.
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I really liked the short-lived hour-long daytime format (two 3-round games, winners face off in an all-cash final round). In the distant future, if Wheel ever leaves syndication and gets picked up as an hour-long weekly affair in primetime, I think I'd use that as a baseline for revamping the format sans shopping.
Other ideas for that:
-Add a prize on the Wheel in each round, and in the head-to-head all prizes unclaimed go back on the Wheel.
-Either play the bonus for a jackpot (starting at $25k and increasing by that amount til won) or have a prize wheel similar to the Australian show with a few cash spaces mixed in.
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however, to add champions back you also have to likely reinstate those five tape dates.
There are two ways around that which I see. You either:
- Get over the idea of the "theme of the week" always starting on Monday, or
- Just get rid of the "theme of the week"
I'm for the latter. I don't even understand why they do it anymore. Aside from a few such sponsored weeks where I can understand the money behind the madness, what does calling a week's worth of shows "Southern Hospitality Week" and squeezing in a few themed puzzles and the like doing for the show? Is anybody going to be more enticed to watch because of a specific theme, sponsored or non-sponsored? Considering Wheel's core audience, I don't think they even notice of care what theme is labelled across the video wall when going to commercial.
I'm for returning champions, because, why not?
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however, to add champions back you also have to likely reinstate those five tape dates.
There are two ways around that which I see. You either:
- Get over the idea of the "theme of the week" always starting on Monday, or
- Just get rid of the "theme of the week"
I'm for the latter. I don't even understand why they do it anymore. Aside from a few such sponsored weeks where I can understand the money behind the madness, what does calling a week's worth of shows "Southern Hospitality Week" and squeezing in a few themed puzzles and the like doing for the show? Is anybody going to be more enticed to watch because of a specific theme, sponsored or non-sponsored? Considering Wheel's core audience, I don't think they even notice of care what theme is labelled across the video wall when going to commercial.
I'm for returning champions, because, why not?
Most of Season 39 (2021-22) was unthemed, and it SUCKED. Truly. So, so bland. I'm sure a lot of it was because they were using the generic set almost every week, but unless they do something differently, I hope they don't do it again.
I agree that most of the themes are pretty silly, but man, is it ever noticeable when they disappear.
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To me, that's on the producers to make a more engaging show. The first, what 25 or so years (daytime and syndication) managed to make Hangman engaging without needing a particular theme. The Celebrity episodes were prolly the first time I watched Wheel regularly in years, and realized the show still had a little personality when they weren't on cruise control.
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when they weren't on cruise control.
Something that occurred to me when Pluto still had the massive cache of Wheel eps, including a couple hundred from 2016-2020: Aside from minor cosmetic differences or "gimmick A is present, gimmick B is missing", an episode from 2014 is essentially interchangeable with an episode all the way to eps from spring 2020. They did years of paint-by-numbers episodes.
The problem isn't theme weeks, it's the way the entire show was produced for most of the years Harry Friedman was there, and became particularly apparent starting around 2008-09. Things have improved under the current admin, but just only.
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Reminds me of the final three questions in the early days of $ale.
Here they’re playing for more than 10 bucks apiece, but good point. So….
What if they play as many as puzzles as possible in 60 seconds? (Or I dunno, 100.) The money doubles each puzzle, and maybe the letters speed up a little, too. Clock stops on ring-ins so Ryan can set up the next puzzle. Alternatively they could count down revealed letters rather than seconds. “The 26-Letter Countdown (Round).”
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Honestly, you don't need the theme weeks if you had a better in-studio presentation. Watching WOF feels like lather, rinse, repeat. The producers found the cruise control button 10-15 years ago and kept it there for the rest of Pat's run.
I'll admit, I'm not a fan of the theme weeks -- most of them are borderline lame and don't bring anything to the show. But I'm OK with a handful of theme weeks during the season as long as they are sponsored and can add a few interesting prizes to the mix (say, Disney week or an "NFL Week" where a contestant could win Super Bowl tickets).
JD