The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => Game Show Channels & Networks => Topic started by: Vgmastr on March 11, 2004, 10:20:25 AM
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Upon looking at this link (http://\"http://adlink.com/resource_center/programming_grids/apg.cfm?netid=14909&begweek=03/15/2004&endtime=1770\"), I noticed a couple of schedule changes I didn't notice before.
Cram replaces LMAD at 9am Fri, Sat, & Sun.
Blackjack replaces back-to-back FF at 5pm on Wed.
Blackjack replaces Lingo and MG at 9pm on Thurs.
Blackjack replaces Newlywed Game and Love Connection at 7pm on Friday.
Too much blackjack!
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[quote name=\'Vgmastr\' date=\'Mar 11 2004, 10:20 AM\'] Upon looking at this link (http://\"http://adlink.com/resource_center/programming_grids/apg.cfm?netid=14909&begweek=03/15/2004&endtime=1770\"), I noticed a couple of schedule changes I didn't notice before.
Cram replaces LMAD at 9am Fri, Sat, & Sun.
Blackjack replaces back-to-back FF at 5pm on Wed.
Blackjack replaces Lingo and MG at 9pm on Thurs.
Blackjack replaces Newlywed Game and Love Connection at 7pm on Friday.
Too much blackjack! [/quote]
Looks like 70s LMAD may be another casualty after this weekend(granted, the 1971-73 and 1975-77 seasons of the 70s shows have been cycled through a few times).
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All of the excess Blackjack slots are for next week only. Cram's change is permanent.
Another one bites the dust (Or rides the bus, take your pick)
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The Cram change does now look to be permanent. A few days ago it was only listed for 3/15 and 3/29. Now it goes through the end of April. LMAD still gets four showings a week.
Blackjack is definitely the non-trad show GSN is betting (sorry) the most on. They've ordered additional eps already, it seems to be getting the most promos of any of the new shows, the changes kick off with a double-run of the card game, and the premiere week retreads the show again and again.
Kenny vs. Spenny and Spy TV seem to be real throw-ins, almost like Shows To Be Named Later, to borrow a term from baseball. I'm not wagering the house on long GSN runs for these shows, especially with Dog Eat Dog and Average Joe now in the house.
Fake-a-Date and Mole seem to fall somewhere between. The network doesn't seem super-sold on the shows, but GSN isn't just tossing them out there. They're marching Evan Marriott around some talkfests.
The nightmare for GSN execs, of course, is that EVERYTHING bombs and the 10:00 numbers start hurtling towards the abyss last seen in August and September.
Of course, some would welcome this nightmare in the hope that GSN would suddenly start flooding prime time with game show rarities from the vaults. I think the chances for this scenario are somewhat less than zero. At most GSN would try something like the remedy for the near-death experience last year: Millionaire, Lingo, Match Game, Lingo, Match Game.
Come to think of it, they're keeping two-thirds of that remedy already.
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[quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'Mar 11 2004, 01:25 PM\'] The Cram change does now look to be permanent. A few days ago it was only listed for 3/15 and 3/29. Now it goes through the end of April. LMAD still gets four showings a week.
Blackjack is definitely the non-trad show GSN is betting (sorry) the most on. They've ordered additional eps already, it seems to be getting the most promos of any of the new shows, the changes kick off with a double-run of the card game, and the premiere week retreads the show again and again.
Kenny vs. Spenny and Spy TV seem to be real throw-ins, almost like Shows To Be Named Later, to borrow a term from baseball. I'm not wagering the house on long GSN runs for these shows, especially with Dog Eat Dog and Average Joe now in the house.
Fake-a-Date and Mole seem to fall somewhere between. The network doesn't seem super-sold on the shows, but GSN isn't just tossing them out there. They're marching Evan Marriott around some talkfests.
The nightmare for GSN execs, of course, is that EVERYTHING bombs and the 10:00 numbers start hurtling towards the abyss last seen in August and September.
Of course, some would welcome this nightmare in the hope that GSN would suddenly start flooding prime time with game show rarities from the vaults. I think the chances for this scenario are somewhat less than zero. At most GSN would try something like the remedy for the near-death experience last year: Millionaire, Lingo, Match Game, Lingo, Match Game.
Come to think of it, they're keeping two-thirds of that remedy already. [/quote]
I think betting on Blackjack is a good idea - the Mole could turn out to be a big ... miss. By my recollection, it's the first time a reality show has had offnet repeats. Would you watch if GSN started rerunning Survivor and you'd already seen it? That said, it's quite possible (specifically with the non-celeb versions) that people either didn't watch it originally or don't remember it.
I wasn't aware they had a major primetime drop in August/September of 03...what caused it?
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[quote name=\'tommycharles\' date=\'Mar 11 2004, 02:28 PM\'] I think betting on Blackjack is a good idea - the Mole could turn out to be a big ... miss. By my recollection, it's the first time a reality show has had offnet repeats. Would you watch if GSN started rerunning Survivor and you'd already seen it? That said, it's quite possible (specifically with the non-celeb versions) that people either didn't watch it originally or don't remember it.
[/quote]
That's the part of re-running the contests that continue from week to week that I question, as well (I refuse to call them "game operas") - most people already know who won the entire contest, what's the fun of re-watching it all over again when you know who's going to win in the first place?
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[quote name=\'aaron sica\' date=\'Mar 11 2004, 02:35 PM\'] [quote name=\'tommycharles\' date=\'Mar 11 2004, 02:28 PM\'] I think betting on Blackjack is a good idea - the Mole could turn out to be a big ... miss. By my recollection, it's the first time a reality show has had offnet repeats. Would you watch if GSN started rerunning Survivor and you'd already seen it? That said, it's quite possible (specifically with the non-celeb versions) that people either didn't watch it originally or don't remember it.
[/quote]
That's the part of re-running the contests that continue from week to week that I question, as well (I refuse to call them "game operas") - most people already know who won the entire contest, what's the fun of re-watching it all over again when you know who's going to win in the first place? [/quote]
I agree that it may kill the suspense factor. Then again, think of it like watching Millionaire. As soon as John Carpenter or Joe Trela steps into the hot seat, you know they're going to win the million, but it's still fun watching the climb.
I guess... :-/
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[quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'Mar 11 2004, 01:25 PM\'] Blackjack is definitely the non-trad show GSN is betting (sorry) the most on. They've ordered additional eps already, it seems to be getting the most promos of any of the new shows, the changes kick off with a double-run of the card game, and the premiere week retreads the show again and again. [/quote]
Has anybody seen how this show is formatted? Specifically, how an episode tends to end?
While I get a kick out of World Poker Tour, I find that my interest tends to wane as the show draws to a close because all you need to do to know how it's going to end is look at the clock: At a few minutes before the hour, the trailing player will go all-in and will lose, and you know this because there wouldn't be enough time to go through another hand. Any sense of suspense is, poof, gone. Hard to argue with (admittedly, expanded basic cable) success, but on the other hand, this seems like really awful television design to me, to have a climax so really, really, really obvious. And not in an enjoyable Columbo-like manner, either.
Point being, I'm wondering how a Blackjack Grudge Match show is going to avoid that problem.
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I wasn't aware they had a major primetime drop in August/September of 03...what caused it?
I got obsessive-compulsive and pulled all the prime time household numbers from the old CableWorld site, dating back a couple years. (They don't give the numbers out for free any more, by the way. And the numbers that MediaLifeMagazine doles out don't get down far enough to include GSN.)
GSN really took a dive in August and September in their household count. That's why the deal for Millionaire got done pronto and the severe shakeup occurred in the prime time schedule...basically canning everything except three shows GSN gambled on: Millionaire, Lingo and Match Game.
Funny thing, it worked! GSN made double-digit gains the first two months this year from a year ago in prime time households. So now they're scrambling up prime time again in a search for younger demos. Lotsa luck, guys!
Has anybody seen how this show is formatted? Specifically, how an episode tends to end?
The blackjack show on the Travel Channel had a fixed numbers of hands in the final round. So three or four players were left on the last hand, and any of them could have won. Ken Einiger, who will appear on the GSN shows, took a horrible beat on the last card 19-18 to lose the million. My guess is that the GSN shows will have a similar format.
I liked the Travel Channel show. Only problem for me was too much post-production. All the narration was post-produced, which made the show seem less immediate and dramatic.
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Just to make my obsessive-compusive behavior obvious to all, these are the GSN prime time household numbers I culled from the CableWorld site. The site no longer publishes these numbers for free. MediaLifeMagazine only gives numbers for the top 25 ad-supported cable networks.
Each line gives the week, universe rating (percentage of households watching GSN out of all households that have access to GSN), average prime time household count, and rank among the top forty ad-supported cablers.
GSN's household count held pretty steady against its competition until late summer 2003, when the network experienced an alarming decline that often dumped it out of the top forty altogether. The very last line shows a bounce-back that started when GSN acquired Millionaire and went to the three-show prime time lineup.
The bounce-back has continued through January and February this year, according to Variety. GSN's average household count was up 18% this February from February, 2003.
Judging from the numbers on this list, this indicates GSN brushed up close to 300K households, on average, for February, 2004. Which would be a record month for the network, or real close.
So that's why they're scrambling up prime time on March 15 (chuckle). Well, actually they want better demos. We'll see.
08/19/02-08/25/02 0.5 215,000 36
08/26/02-09/01/02 0.5 215,000 36
09/02/02-09/08/02 0.5 221,000 40
09/09/02-09/15/02 0.6 273,000 33
09/16/02-09/22/02 0.5 227,000 34
09/23/02-09/29/02 0.4 197,000 35
09/30/02-10/06/02 0.5 252,000 34
10/07/02-10/13/02 0.5 251,000 34
10/14/02-10/20/02 0.5 219,000 35
10/21/02-10/27/02 0.5 229,000 33
10/28/02-11/03/02 0.5 255,000 33
11/04/02-11/10/02 0.4 216,000 36
11/11/02-11/17/02 0.5 258,000 34
11/18/02-11/24/02 0.5 228,000 36
11/25/02-12/01/02 0.4 222,000 39
12/02/02-12/08/02 0.4 205,000 40
12/23/02-12/29/02 0.4 197,000 40
12/30/02-01/05/03 0.5 256,000 39
01/06/03-01/12/03 0.4 227,000 39
01/13/03-01/19/03 0.5 227,000 38
01/20/03-01/26/03 0.4 206,000 39
01/27/03-02/02/03 0.5 256,000 38
02/03/03-02/09/03 0.5 255,000 37
02/10/03-02/16/03 0.5 261,000 35
02/17/03-02/23/03 0.5 237,000 37
02/24/03-03/02/03 0.5 256,000 37
03/03/03-03/09/03 0.5 250,000 39
03/10/03-03/16/03 0.6 307,000 32
03/17/03-03/23/03 0.5 276,000 32
03/24/03-03/30/03 0.4 226,000 38
04/01/03-04/06/03 Out of top 40, less than 215,000 hh
04/07/03-04/13/03 0.5 267,000 35
04/14/03-04/20/03 0.4 216,000 38
04/21/03-04/27/03 0.4 213,000 38
04/28/03-05/04/03 0.4 229,000 35
05/05/03-05/11/03 0.3 177,000 40
05/12/03-05/18/03 0.4 208,000 37
05/19/03-05/25/03 0.3 172,000 40
05/26/03-06/01/03 0.4 229,000 38
06/02/03-06/08/03 0.4 210,000 38
06/09/03-06/15/03 0.4 205,000 38
06/16/03-06/22/03 0.4 216,000 39
06/23/03-06/29/03 0.4 222,000 38
06/30/03-07/06/03 0.4 217,000 37
07/07/03-07/13/03 0.4 209,000 39
07/14/03-07/20/03 Out of top 40, less than 228,000 hh
07/28/03-08/03/03 0.3 170,000 40
08/11/03-08/17/03 Out of top 40, less than 212,000 hh
08/25/03-08/31/03 Out of top 40, less than 173,000 hh
09/01/03-09/07/03 0.4 195,000 40
09/08/03-09/14/03 0.4 189,000 40
09/15/03-09/21/03 0.4 192,000 40
09/22/03-09/28/03 Out of top 40, less than 174,000 hh
09/29/03-10/05/03 0.3 167,000 40
10/20/03-10/26/03 0.4 235,000 33
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Of course, some would welcome this nightmare in the hope that GSN would suddenly start flooding prime time with game show rarities from the vaults. I think the chances for this scenario are somewhat less than zero.
I agree with that. Even if this "experiment" fails, they'll probably just start running "Match Game" et al over and over to try to gain back the audience. Ever since GSN began, they haven't exactly been big on running "rarities" from the vault.
Unfortunatly.
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You can see some interesting peaks and valleys in the GSN numbers. The highest-rated week in this list was 3/10/03-3/16/03, thanks to the Big Bucks special. You might recall GSN's press release about the nice ratings the show got. Repeats helped produce good numbers the following week, but the one-time effect quickly wore off.
When the ratings really hit the skids in late summer 2003, there were some panicky threads on the GSN boards about the falloff. Some guy quoted Variety stories about how the network was tumbling from year-ago levels...which was completely true.
Speculation about the causes for the falloff mostly centered on burnout of the Boden originals and the launch of shows like Funny Money, which didn't do so great.
People chatter that Boden's eventual exit had to do with GSN's decision to move into non-traditional programming. That might have been a factor, but the alarming decline in the ratings in August and September 2003 may also have played a part. Basically, the network dumped every one of his originals except Lingo out of prime time as part of the survival strategy.
EDIT: At the risk of turning this entry into the Internet version of War and Peace, I'll natter on with some general thoughts about GSN's new programming direction.
To begin with what might seem heresy to some, I have a sneaking sympathy for Rich Cronin. He's nursed the network back to household-rating health, but he's still stuck with less than ideal demos. What to do?
The name "change" and logo refresh look trivial to me, but NEW is a valuable word in media. So I won't kvetch too much about the cosmetic changes. To me, though, the programming changes seem too much too fast.
Instead of tossing five shows out there to sink or swim, I would have introduced each new effort gradually with plenty of individual promotion. And I would have gone with shows that look more like traditional gamers first, to avoid wholesale mutiny among current viewers. Which means the blackjack show would have kicked off the changes and been given at least a few weeks to prove itself, instead of getting jumbled in with throwaways like Spy TV.
Reality efforts that include lots of game-show elements - Mole, Dog Eat Dog, Amazing Race if it ever becomes available - would have followed at discreet intervals. Again, each would have gotten plenty of individual promo time.
Finally, the wilder and crazier stuff - Average Joe, Fake-a-Date, Kenny vs. Spenny, Spy TV, the eventual dodgeball epic, Greek Games, whatever - would have followed at respectful distances...again, with lots of individual promotion.
Yes, this is a more cautious approach, and caution doesn't thrill anybody. But it sounds like a more reasonable way to hang onto the hard-won household gains while gradually attracting younger demos.
In his interview with the Prof, Cronin said that he didn't want a light-switch change. Sure enough, two-thirds of prime time is left undisturbed. But the light does switch on in a hurry at 10:00 PM Eastern.
I'm just not sure that some of the hour's new residents can stand the sudden illumination.
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I'm not sure if five new shows at a time is a bad strategy. I got more excited back in the day when the networks would show me three or four new daytime games than just one. The first week of a new season had the same effect. I'm treating next week as a "new season" for GSN.
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We seem to go around and around the same points, so I'll make mine again.
GSN will never be the ratings-grabbing channel that Sony wants it to be, and changing the direction from "game shows" to "games" is a superficial and marginal difference at best. Using more recent reruns and "edgier" originals will probably give them better ratings than the umpteenth replay of Card Sharks, but obviously at the expense of offending those of us who like our game shows in a studio, no matter how old they are.
So in short, this move is a positive change for the corporate bottom line, but only marginally. It's not going to give them the results they want, but it'll probably give them better results than what they have.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Mar 12 2004, 12:44 PM\'] We seem to go around and around the same points, so I'll make mine again.
GSN will never be the ratings-grabbing channel that Sony wants it to be, and changing the direction from "game shows" to "games" is a superficial and marginal difference at best. Using more recent reruns and "edgier" originals will probably give them better ratings than the umpteenth replay of Card Sharks, but obviously at the expense of offending those of us who like our game shows in a studio, no matter how old they are.
So in short, this move is a positive change for the corporate bottom line, but only marginally. It's not going to give them the results they want, but it'll probably give them better results than what they have. [/quote]
But why does Sony expect it to be a ratings grabber? It's turning a profit (I think) and for what will always amount to a niche network, I don't think they can ask a whole lot more.
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Uhh, Casey, not to be argumentative, but, if 3-10 to 3-16 was the highest week, then BB didn't have THAT much to do with it, as the only time it aired in that entire week, was Sunday (And Sunday nights are generally lower rated than other nights anyway). Also, if BB was such a driving force in ratings, why did the 3/17 to 3/23 ratings dive to normal numbers, as that was the week that Big Bucks was most prominently featured, and was the week of a new season of Whammy, and so forth
What *I'd* be interested to see, is how GSN's morning and afternoon ratings are. Just to see what REALLY works best in those slots...Anything put in those slots could only fare marginally better at best. From what I know, To Tell the Truth, during the BWTS block, got a .2 there, and that was considered fairly good for the timeslot, FOR GSN. Other than that, mornings tend to be a bit blurry.
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[quote name=\'Seth Thrasher\' date=\'Mar 12 2004, 07:13 PM\'] Uhh, Casey, not to be argumentative, but, if 3-10 to 3-16 was the highest week, then BB didn't have THAT much to do with it, as the only time it aired in that entire week, was Sunday (And Sunday nights are generally lower rated than other nights anyway). Also, if BB was such a driving force in ratings, why did the 3/17 to 3/23 ratings dive to normal numbers, as that was the week that Big Bucks was most prominently featured, and was the week of a new season of Whammy, and so forth
What *I'd* be interested to see, is how GSN's morning and afternoon ratings are. Just to see what REALLY works best in those slots...Anything put in those slots could only fare marginally better at best. From what I know, To Tell the Truth, during the BWTS block, got a .2 there, and that was considered fairly good for the timeslot, FOR GSN. Other than that, mornings tend to be a bit blurry. [/quote]
Ummm.......actually Seth, The PYL Scandal DID first air on March 16 at 9pm. It reaired the following night (March 17) after the double episode season premiere of Whammy!, featuring the St. Patrick's Day colors and the Larson reunion.
Tyshaun
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In fact, the Sunday night airing of the Big Bucks documentary got the highest ratings the network ever enjoyed, which was enough to lift the overall week average to its highest point to date. The repeats helped the next week's average as well, which did not "dive" to normal levels. 276K in households was definitely not normal for GSN at the time. In fact, it was the second highest total I could find on the CableWorld site.
Unfortunately the one-time Big Bucks bump didn't last, and GSN's ratings really collapsed by late summer.
I wish I could rustle up some numbers for the upcoming week, just to see how the debuts fare. But the free sources of cable ratings on the web are pretty limited. Lots of sites give the top 15 cable shows for the week, but GSN never makes that list. MediaLifeMagazine gives the average weekly household count for the top 25 ad-supported cablers, but GSN never makes that list, either. Variety does a monthly story about big gainers and losers among cable nets, and GSN has made that story the last two months as a double-digit gainer (from the same month last year). The story usually winds up in the free Yahoo news stash after a couple days. It'll be interesting to see if GSN gains big for March.
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To be honest, I've got mixed reactions about the whole thing. I certainly don't think that "the new GSN" can be likened to the Apocalypse; however, I also don't see how it will help ratings any.
Why, you ask? Most people associate GSN with game shows, and, while I do applaud GSN's efforts for trying to expand their programming, these non-traditional games and weird reality shows won't do the trick, I believe. They will certainly pique people's curiosities for a week or two just to see what the "new GSN" is all about, but the daytime schedule isn't changing that much and I think, unless the blackjack competition is basically edge-of-your-seat like battles like WPT, I can bet (no pun intended!) that it will be no more successful than, say, Lingo.
And, as far as the apocalyptic prophesies go, let me echo the three words said by everybody: GET A LIFE! The classic game shows still dominate most of the schedule and there's almost no change from before! Granted, I don't think we'll see "Double Dare '76" or "Go!" back on the schedule, but we still have many great game shows that we can enjoy, so why not sit back and enjoy what we have?
There's my two cents, and now, off to watch PYL!
Anthony
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There's going to be a woman from my area on the Blackjack show and the interesting thing about her is that she is sightless.
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The centerpoint of this new strategy is GSN at 10, which is built on the premise that there are a lot of people surfing around at that time when the dramas come on the Original 3 networks and news/reruns/first-run action series air on the Fox/mini-net/indie stations. Since reality shows on the nets, with a few exceptions, generally *don't* play at 10 p.m. , the belief seems that GSN should try to catch the reality fans surfing around at that time. Similar to Comedy Central's long-time strategy of playing originals at 10 p.m. when the networks don't do sitcoms, which has definitely worked for them. Can reality work for GSN at 10 p.m.? If someone liked the blackjack, will they return tomorrow night for "Celeb Mole" and Wednesday for "F-A-D," etc.? We shall see.
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Being a game show fan, I'm a little perturbed at the direction GSN is taking. However, I watched the first episode of "Blackjack", and it is interesting. I could see the "channel surfers" hitting this and staying a while.