The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: Jeremy Nelson on July 28, 2023, 05:21:30 PM
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Over the last decade or so, Wheel’s bonus puzzle writing has been questionable at best. The esoteric PLACES, the THINGS with unnecessary adjectives, and so on… I know that there are only so many puzzles you can write of that length without giving away the farm with the free letters, so are we at the point where it makes sense to revert to the 5 consonants, 1 vowel version of the bonus round? It would open the door to way more puzzles that actually make sense, and it makes the Wild Card a way more valuable tool in the bonus round.
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I'm not sure reverting to the old format would fix the issue--most contestants would just end up choosing RSTLNE anyway and the producers would still write puzzles with more obscure letters whenever they need to save money.
How about this: the contestant is shown a selection of 3 letters, all of which are guaranteed to be in the puzzle at least once, and chooses 1 to reveal its location(s). If they have the Wild Card, they choose 2. They then choose 4 consonants/1 vowel of their own to reveal.
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How about this: the contestant is shown a selection of 3 letters, all of which are guaranteed to be in the puzzle at least once, and chooses 1 to reveal its location(s). If they have the Wild Card, they choose 2. They then choose 4 consonants/1 vowel of their own to reveal.
I assume the contestant can't pick any of the 3 options for free letters in their 4 consonants/1 vowel part? Cause otherwise everyone would just do that, rendering the first selection part moot. But then again if they can't that seems kind of unfair that they can't pick good letters. Plus this just seems like overcomplicating things beyond what the average viewer would tolerate.
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I don't think the problem is the limitations of the puzzles they can write, but moreso the limitations they impose on themselves on the categories and puzzles they could be using. When you're offering Thing and Phrase 90% of the time as choices in the bonus round, no wonder you start to run out of ideas. Meanwhile they let On The Map, In the Kitchen, Around the House, Occupation, Show Biz, Character, and Title sit by the wayside only pulling a few of those out a season. It still doesn't feel like they've fully utilized What Are You Wearing yet.
It seems like they're sitting on a floodgate full of puzzles, both in the main game and the bonus round, that they refuse to open because it would mean expanding beyond the same six categories they use, mainly in the same structure of the show.
It's been boring to watch Headline show up only twice a year when a sports team wins a national title or Movie Title showing up only when Sony has a movie to promote. Beyond the Wheel, a lot of problems the show has could go a long way towards being solved if they'd break out of the stale rut of puzzles they've anchored themselves to for the last 15 years.
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It still doesn't feel like they've fully utilized What Are You Wearing yet.
GIMP SUIT would make a pretty good bonus round puzzle.
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I don't think the problem is the limitations of the puzzles they can write, but moreso the limitations they impose on themselves on the categories and puzzles they could be using. When you're offering Thing and Phrase 90% of the time as choices in the bonus round, no wonder you start to run out of ideas. Meanwhile they let On The Map, In the Kitchen, Around the House, Occupation, Show Biz, Character, and Title sit by the wayside only pulling a few of those out a season. It still doesn't feel like they've fully utilized What Are You Wearing yet.
This page (https://buyavowel.boards.net/page/compendiumchoices) covers the choices offered vs. choices picked since they started the format. Just glancing at season 39, it looks like contestants are picking the specific categories whenever they can, leaving Thing and Phrase behind. I'm sure a lot of unchosen puzzles roll over. In addition, I imagine it's easier to slot in tough words when the category is as broad as Thing or Phrase.
There's not a single Title of any variety to be found on this list, nor a Proper Name, and I can imagine why. When I did so in a fan game, they were quick to point out the show doesn't do it. It's immediately evident: if you pick a very tough/older title (say, "Roc") it's going to come across as unfair. If you stick with fair-to-guess stuff, the chances of getting a correct solve are going to be much higher than with a random Thing puzzle.
-Jason
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I think it's a manufactured problem. The idea that there is a finite number of possible puzzles just doesn't wash with me seeing how there are millions of words in the English language. And the fact is that puzzles do repeat on occasion, and there's no reason why they can't over the span of nearly fifty years.
The current practice of using goofy invented phrases as bonus round puzzles is accomplishing exactly what the show wants it to. They are budget savers. And the producers probably don't care if viewers don't like them because they know viewers are gonna watch anyway.
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When you're offering Thing and Phrase 90% of the time as choices in the bonus round, no wonder you start to run out of ideas.
In Season 40 (and accounting for plurals) Thing and Phrase were the two least popular* categories when offered, at 7% and 35% respectively, and at least one of them appeared on every episode.
Assuming unpicked puzzles go back in the pile, the problem may just be that no one wants them.
*-On The Map was offered once and not selected.
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I'd be curious to see if/how they can recycle offerings in the BR, because I don't know if it's been shared with the community. It does seem like unused BR puzzles often turn up in Round 4 and beyond, but that's about it.
If they're writing three new puzzles for every episode, I can see why they would get crappy very quickly.
I don't think it would be particularly difficult to expand the category range that they have now, and I wish they would - seeing Thing(s)/Phrase/(random choice from a list of 6-8) is incredibly boring. It just seems like they don't have much incentive to do so.
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If they want to save on the number of puzzles they use, they could always kill off the buzz-ins at the top of the show.
I have a feeling that they might do a bit of overhauling to the show at the start of the new Seacrest era next year. To what extent, who knows? But it would be a great opportunity to re-image the show to make it fresher, and to distance themselves from the robotic Pat (and Vanna???) era while keeping the Wheel Watchers happy.
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I'd be curious to see if/how they can recycle offerings in the BR, because I don't know if it's been shared with the community.
I'm a little confused as to what this means. No contestant sees the other 2 puzzles, so they're back in the proverbial pool, like unrevealed Jeopardy! clues. Most shows, they wouldn't be able to use it the same tape day, but it could easily come back for the next one (if they were so inclined).
-Jason
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I agree TimK2003. The toss-up puzzles should be done away with entirely.
The name of the game is WHEEL of Fortune, and that should be used as much as possible.
The buzz-ins remind me too much of Jeopardy!
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I agree TimK2003. The toss-up puzzles should be done away with entirely.
why? The main idea is the two prongs of spin the wheel, solve the puzzle and win.
The name of the game is WHEEL of Fortune, and that should be used as much as possible.
I get this, and I think a fair compromise is a toss-up for no dollars to determine control of each round.
The celebrity version has so much more freedom that I would keep the Triple Toss Up there.
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I get this, and I think a fair compromise is a toss-up for no dollars to determine control of each round.
If you're going to play a $0 round, you might as well do that off-camera before the show.
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The name of the game is WHEEL of Fortune, and that should be used as much as possible.
Of the things people tune into Wheel of Fortune for, I have a hard time seeing "the wheel" as better than 3rd for most of the show's lifetime.
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The Wheel is pretty clearly secondary (at best) at this point. There hasn't been a significant change to it since the move to one template in 1996 - 27 years ago. The last significant set of value changes was in 2014 (hard to believe it's been that long), and some of that was undone a year later.
As a fan, I'm not keen on the continued expansion of the Toss-Ups (particularly some of the bad writing on the Triple); I'd prefer one $1,000 TU before round 4, and that's it.
As a contestant, bring it on. The chance to win $10K in the TTU means that someone else's Prize Puzzle win can be partially or totally negated. Overall, that's up to $13,000 available per episode that's pretty much all skill-based. That's usually not enough to win on its own, but it's a solid foundation.
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I agree TimK2003. The toss-up puzzles should be done away with entirely.
I’m ok with eliminating either one of the first two or the triple Toss-Ups, but I don’t mind them in general as an icebreaker. It breaks up the monotony the show’s had for 20 years. I never thought it would be possible to have too much game in a show. It’s almost like a reverse NBC primetime pacing issue.
And I don’t know the solution. I can only get but so excited for the Express or Crossword puzzles.