The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: Dbacksfan12 on January 23, 2004, 03:22:05 AM
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What are your opinions on shows that should have been straddled; and shows that straddled, that should have been self contained?
In my opinion, the current run of Feud should straddle (thus eliminating the need to rush through the game).
No game comes to mind that was in fact straddled that didn't.
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I agree. It would make viewers tune in to the next episode.
The longest straddle drought went 9 years (1990-99) Tic Tac Dough-Who Wants To Be A Millionaire?
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[quote name=\'GSWitch\' date=\'Jan 23 2004, 08:59 AM\'] I agree. It would make viewers tune in to the next episode.
The longest straddle drought went 9 years (1990-99) Tic Tac Dough-Who Wants To Be A Millionaire? [/quote]
Some episodes of TJW90 straddled, i.e. the bonus game would be played at the top of the next episode on a few occasions when the maingame ran too long. ALso, though not normally considered a game show, Love Connection, which ran through 1993-94 and again in 1998-99, would end the show by introducing a contestant and their three prospective dates. The next show would have them tell who the contestant picked and give the date details.
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Feud would be a better, fairer *game* if it straddled (all questions are worth the same and you play to 200) but I'm not so sure it would make a better *show*. The tradition of ending the show with the bonus game goes back a quarter century, and it's hard to mess with something like that.
In general, any show where the points are ridiculously weighted toward the end so that the last round is all that matters, and any show that simply stops in the middle of something when time runs out (like Lingo does and Squares did) has a structural problem. Usually, that problem can be corrected by straddling.
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In the early days, I think "Feud" was supposed to straddle, as sometimes Dawson would introduce a new family after the Fast Money round was played. In every occasion, they had to wait until the next show to play.
Personally, I liked "Squares" better when the bonus round was played at the end of the show. I just don't think it works as well having a two-out-of-three format. Maybe in the old NBC days it did, but not now.
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I have an opinion on this but it will have to wait until tomorrow, because we're out of time.
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Jan 23 2004, 09:40 AM\'] Personally, I liked "Squares" better when the bonus round was played at the end of the show. I just don't think it works as well having a two-out-of-three format. Maybe in the old NBC days it did, but not now. [/quote]
I brought this up in another thread, but personally, I think Squares is better off with the 2/3 format. I think it allows for a better flow with the game, and sometimes we even get 2 bonus rounds in a show. Of course, there's also those days where there's none at all. ;-)
Looking at this season's episodes, it looked like for the first five years, that HSq was trying very hard to stretch out the gameplay. IMO, that makes the show tiring and boring. Watching two people play tic-tac-toe can only be fun for so long, when it's a self-contained game.
One thing I *do* like in a self-contained game is a guaranteed bonus round in every show. But there's a lot of shows where the show could get very tiring with self-contained matches, as Matt said, Lingo and HSq are good examples. Going back to the early days of Feud "straddling" in a sense, I'd like to see the current Feud producers experiment with something like that, in one of those episodes where a family gets 300 in only three rounds; instead of doing the commercial in between Fast Money, use that commercial *after* FM, and then intro the next family briefly.
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[quote name=\'zachhoran\' date=\'Jan 23 2004, 08:09 AM\'] [quote name=\'GSWitch\' date=\'Jan 23 2004, 08:59 AM\'] I agree. It would make viewers tune in to the next episode.
The longest straddle drought went 9 years (1990-99) Tic Tac Dough-Who Wants To Be A Millionaire? [/quote]
Some episodes of TJW90 straddled, i.e. the bonus game would be played at the top of the next episode on a few occasions when the maingame ran too long. ALso, though not normally considered a game show, Love Connection, which ran through 1993-94 and again in 1998-99, would end the show by introducing a contestant and their three prospective dates. The next show would have them tell who the contestant picked and give the date details. [/quote]
Some episodes of TJW90 straddled? Are you talking about the second season shows?
I don't think there was any straddling on the first season shows.
Now, I'll give in my 2 cents on Straddling: Not a good idea. What if a viewer prefers not to tape a whole week of shows? That's not a good idea then.
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[quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jan 23 2004, 11:47 AM\'] Some episodes of TJW90 straddled? Are you talking about the second season shows?
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There was no straddling on the second season shows because a second season of the 1990s edition of The Joker's Wild was not produced.
Pat Finn's explanation at the end of those first and only season of shows where the Joker Machine game had to be played at the top of the next program was usually, "We've had so much fun with the new rules that we've run out of time".
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[quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jan 23 2004, 11:47 AM\'] Now, I'll give in my 2 cents on Straddling: Not a good idea. What if a viewer prefers not to tape a whole week of shows? That's not a good idea then. [/quote]
Huh? Who said anything about taping anything, and why would it make any difference in the world?
Ooh...post number 666...(evil laugh)
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[quote name=\'Don Howard\' date=\'Jan 23 2004, 10:59 AM\'] [quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jan 23 2004, 11:47 AM\'] Some episodes of TJW90 straddled? Are you talking about the second season shows?
[/quote]
There was no straddling on the second season shows because a second season of the 1990s edition of The Joker's Wild was not produced.
Pat Finn's explanation at the end of those first and only season of shows where the Joker Machine game had to played at the top of the next program was usually, "We've had so much fun with the new rules that we've run out of time". [/quote]
Weren't there essentially two incarnations of TJW90--first being the game of definitions that of course we all knew, then a melding of the "classic" format with their "current" game? That might be the "second season", even though it was all one season (1990-91).
Or am I REALLY confused? :)
Doug
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[quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jan 23 2004, 11:47 AM\'] Now, I'll give in my 2 cents on Straddling: Not a good idea. What if a viewer prefers not to tape a whole week of shows? That's not a good idea then. [/quote]
Well, that's just tough luck then for someone who can't program a VCR. That reminds me--would you like lessons?
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[quote name=\'SRIV94\' date=\'Jan 23 2004, 01:18 PM\'] Weren't there essentially two incarnations of TJW90--first being the game of definitions that of course we all knew, then a melding of the "classic" format with their "current" game? That might be the "second season", even though it was all one season (1990-91).
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I think of it as "mid-season" changes. But, yes, in many show biz circles January is considered "second season". The confusion is understandable.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'Jan 23 2004, 10:36 AM\'] I have an opinion on this but it will have to wait until tomorrow, because we're out of time. [/quote]
That's funny. Lingo is one that really ought to straddle, because the time limit seems so arbritrary and a "first to Lingo twice wins" rule would tighten up the game.
I'm not a huge fan of "Bullseye," but I wonder if that's one straddling game that could be better in a self-contained format. The winner is whichever player has banked the most money. Dollar amounts could double at the midway point. There could be a sound to signal the last contract of the day. I think it could add drama to a game that needed some, and it would have made the game more different from Joker's Wild and Tic Tac Dough.
Any other games that straddled that didn't need to?
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I'm having trouble remembering, but on shows that straddled and had celebrities, what are the different ways they wrapped things up on the Friday shows, so that they could switch over to fresh celebrities for the next week?
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[quote name=\'scully24\' date=\'Jan 23 2004, 03:07 PM\'] I'm having trouble remembering, but on shows that straddled and had celebrities, what are the different ways they wrapped things up on the Friday shows, so that they could switch over to fresh celebrities for the next week? [/quote]
Lotta times, they didn't. On the Passwords, they just finished the last puzzle of the day, left the game in progress, and they picked up with the new celebs next time. Ditto Match Game, I think.
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[quote name=\'scully24\' date=\'Jan 23 2004, 05:07 PM\'] I'm having trouble remembering, but on shows that straddled and had celebrities, what are the different ways they wrapped things up on the Friday shows, so that they could switch over to fresh celebrities for the next week? [/quote]
On most shows (the various Passwords, Hollywood Squares, MG '7X, Magnificent Marble Machine, You Don't Say!, Showoffs), I don't believe it had an effect -- they just picked up where they had left off with new bodies in the chairs, regardless of whether it was a new game, the score was 18-7 or there were two circles and an X on the board. (This was only a drag to the contestant whose partner had turned from Betty White to, say, Juliet Prowse.)
The only exception I can think of was Match Game '79-'82, where the proceedings were either rushed along or were allowed to drag in order to end the Friday show with the second game between a given set of contestants coming to its proper endgame conclusion.
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In the case of latter MG 7X, the show was structured that the week would end with the Super Match. That was, of course, due to all the bicycling of the eps. Which also explains why there was never a billboard of next week's celebs.
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I seem to recall at least one instance on MG7x where a game was interrupted at the end of Friday's show, and Gene said that a particular celeb did not play in Round 2 on Monday because the celeb in that spot matched in Round 1 on Friday (or maybe the other way around).
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[quote name=\'Jay Temple\' date=\'Jan 23 2004, 09:44 PM\'] I seem to recall at least one instance on MG7x where a game was interrupted at the end of Friday's show, and Gene said that a particular celeb did not play in Round 2 on Monday because the celeb in that spot matched in Round 1 on Friday (or maybe the other way around). [/quote]
Happened quite often, yes.
sshuffield70, "MG7x" refers to the network run (Fall '73 to Spring '79). The syndicated show where the tapes were bicycled around was the so called "Syndie MG" from Fall '79 to Spring '82.
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[quote name=\'calliaume\' date=\'Jan 23 2004, 06:12 PM\']On most shows (the various Passwords, Hollywood Squares, MG '7X, Magnificent Marble Machine, You Don't Say!, Showoffs), I don't believe it had an effect -- they just picked up where they had left off with new bodies in the chairs, regardless of whether it was a new game, the score was 18-7 or there were two circles and an X on the board. (This was only a drag to the contestant whose partner had turned from Betty White to, say, Juliet Prowse.)
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Reminds me of a Monday episode of The Magnificent Marble Machine when Jimmie Walker was a celebrity panelist; he made a (mock) big deal over the fact that he was already starting with something like a 3-0 lead (first to five wins) in the game in progress.
Personally, I prefer shows that don't straddle, unless they need to invent ways to prevent it. (Classic Concentration, for example, would have been much better if the second game each day didn't end up with a "reveal the puzzle one square at a time until somebody buzzes in" situation.)
(Speaking of Concentration and buzzing in, does anybody remember what happened in the old Narz version if somebody buzzed in and didn't get the puzzle right? I don't think it happened in the first two seasons, and that's all that ever aired in San Francisco.)
-- Don
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Some shows that had to straddle, in approximate order of how essential it was:
- Blockbusters
- The Joker's Wild
- Tic Tac Dough
- Password, all versions
- WWTBAM
- High Rollers
- Gambit
Shows that suffered in at least one incarnation because they didn't straddle:- Hollywood Squares
- Concentration
- Lingo
Shows that don't absolutely need to be self-contained, but wouldn't be as good if they straddled:- Jeopardy!--By playing out most of the board, it becomes something like a marathon.
- Wheel of Fortune--You could make it the first to two or three puzzles, or a dollar figure, but that could take too long.
- Family Feud--Something about the 1970's scoring system and the current one just "works."
Shows that should always be self-contained:- Pyramid, all incarnations (A few games straddled, but those were variations from an established format.)
- all panel shows (TTTT, IGAS, etc.)
- all shows where two people try to match each other (Newlywed Game, I'm Telling)
- most shows w/o defending champions, most notably TPIR
- anything with a really big end game (Russian Roulette)
I've only seen one show that really worked both ways: MG, though MGPM did have one flaw, which is having to rush through the tiebreaker in the 3-question version.
I've never thought that H2 really worked self-contained. In order to make sure the last game(s) matter, they have to make them so big that the first games don't matter:
1000-0
2000-0
4000-0
4000-4000
tiebreaker
It would've worked better if they just allowed for the occasional blow-out.
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[quote name=\'Don Howard\' date=\'Jan 23 2004, 10:59 AM\'] [quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jan 23 2004, 11:47 AM\'] Some episodes of TJW90 straddled? Are you talking about the second season shows?
[/quote]
There was no straddling on the second season shows because a second season of the 1990s edition of The Joker's Wild was not produced.
Pat Finn's explanation at the end of those first and only season of shows where the Joker Machine game had to be played at the top of the next program was usually, "We've had so much fun with the new rules that we've run out of time". [/quote]
Oh, sorry!
I thought the format change led to a second season! Forgive me!
Anyway, the format change led to the straddling, right? (Money to categories on the wheels for the Front Game)
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I doubt it. I think what happened is that a front game ran extra long one day, so they played the bonus the next day, and the next front game ended as time ran out. So, they played the bonus game as the first business of each show for about two weeks, until a front game took up so little time that they could fit in the other bonus game. One didn't cause the other, it just happened.
Travis
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Well, hello everybody and a very cordial welcome to the straddling post. In my last post, I mentioned I would give an opinion on the topic at hand and I'll do that right after this.....No wait. I'll do it now. I like straddling because it gives the viewer a reason to tune in again the next day, plus it allows for a game show to play out without rushing or slowing down so it can fit into a self contained half hour.