The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => Game Show Channels & Networks => Topic started by: ChrisLambert! on January 17, 2004, 05:59:12 PM
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No less than four cable networks are currently airing poker shows. i wonder if GSN had ever given consideration to doing one of their own, rather than the risky proposition of the much less interesting game of blackjack?
Seems like they could've put together a show of non-professional contestants (punk rockers! grannies! smell the confrontation!) playing for a stack o' real money and it could've been made interesting.
Blackjack may or may not work; poker seems to be a sure thing...and clearly no one network owns the exclusive cable rights to the game.
Just thinking aloud.
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The Travel Channel has aired a one hour summary of a $1M blackjack tournament a few times the past month. Watching the highlights of that tournament was the equivalent of watching paint dry. The psychological aspect of poker isn't there with blackjack since everybody's trying to beat the dealer, not trying to outwit, outdraw, or outbet an opponent. (The end of the last sentence sounds like a good slogan if there's ever a Survivor: High End Tables at the Bellagio series.)
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The Travel Channel has aired a one hour summary of a $1M blackjack tournament a few times the past month. Watching the highlights of that tournament was the equivalent of watching paint dry.
This used to be a running joke at Goodson-Todman: a game show where the audience watches other people sitting around playing (insert name of game with zero audience play-along). That's why there was Gambit instead of real Blackjack and TV Scrabble (really a variation of Hangman) instead of real Scrabble. Poker may be a limited exception to this notion but it doesn't have the same feel as, say, FF by a long shot.
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Blackjack could work. Other than Gambit, who could forget Top Card?
As for Poker, that could work, too. I like both games, as they are both easy to play, easy to win, and easy to lose.
Speaking of Poker, who could forget Pay Cards/Super Pay Cards?
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[quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jan 17 2004, 07:35 PM\'] Blackjack could work. Other than Gambit, who could forget Top Card?
As for Poker, that could work, too. I like both games, as they are both easy to play, easy to win, and easy to lose.
Speaking of Poker, who could forget Pay Cards/Super Pay Cards? [/quote]
Again, the point was already made that all of these shows are not just plain blackjack or poker.
Blackjack is a horrifically painful spectator sport to watch. But hey, GSN knows what they are doing (heh).
Brandon Brooks
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[quote name=\'Brandon Brooks\' date=\'Jan 17 2004, 07:09 PM\'] Blackjack is a horrifically painful spectator sport to watch.
Brandon Brooks [/quote]
It is?
The only thing I find horrible is when someone bets a lot, and BUSTS (Goes over 21, for those who don't know your Blackjack lingo)!
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[quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jan 17 2004, 08:24 PM\'] [quote name=\'Brandon Brooks\' date=\'Jan 17 2004, 07:09 PM\'] Blackjack is a horrifically painful spectator sport to watch.
Brandon Brooks [/quote]
It is?
[/quote]
Poker is a game of bluffing, and a good bluffer makes watching the game suspenseful. I don't know too much bluffing someone could do with blackjack...you either hit or stand, rinse and repeat. Involving it with a game show element is cool, because of the strategy, but watching someone play straight blackjack is not as engaging.
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[quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jan 17 2004, 05:35 PM\'] Blackjack could work. Other than Gambit, who could forget Top Card?
As for Poker, that could work, too. I like both games, as they are both easy to play, easy to win, and easy to lose.
Speaking of Poker, who could forget Pay Cards/Super Pay Cards? [/quote]
Did you even READ Chris's post above yours?
The reason Gambit and Top Card made air is because the artificial aspects of playing against another person were introduced into the game.
Actually, Brandon just said all of this, so I'll move on to your argument that watching straight blackjack on TV might be entertaining:
If it's your bag, great. But the game of blackjack not only involves NO human interaction, you could program a machine to do it.
Would you watch a guy play video blackjack for an hour? Just sitting there, pressing the hit and stand buttons, for the same money? Do you REALLY find that exciting?
If so, I dun wanna party with you. I don't think my heart could handle the excitement when the regular Oreos got put away and the Double-Stuf ones came out. Whoo, doggie.
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[quote name=\'hmtriplecrown\' date=\'Jan 17 2004, 06:14 PM\'] The Travel Channel has aired a one hour summary of a $1M blackjack tournament a few times the past month. Watching the highlights of that tournament was the equivalent of watching paint dry. The psychological aspect of poker isn't there with blackjack since everybody's trying to beat the dealer, not trying to outwit, outdraw, or outbet an opponent. [/quote]
I'm one of the few players here that actually prefers playing blackjack to poker, so as with many things with me, my opinions are quite jaded. I play lots of blackjack at the casinos (I bet upwards of $25-50 per hand and not break out in a sweat doing so), and there are things about it I like, besides of course winning money.
But remember, these televised blackjack games are coverage of tournaments (as opposed to ordinary games), where the players are at the table are indeed trying to outwit and outbet each other, since after all, the player with the highest total at the end of the round advances. That's when you get into betting strategy and the possibility of big catch-ups when the chips are down. The poker series on ESPN and Bravo have worked because you're following along with the players and their bankrolls and strategies. Blackjack might work also, although to what degree is still uncertain. Blackjack seems to go at a faster pace than poker with more hands dealt out. And of course there's more to blackjack than hitting and standing; there's doubling, splitting, and in some cases, surrendering. If this blackjack series is going to be set up like a tournament, then it just might get an audience.
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[quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jan 17 2004, 08:24 PM\'] [quote name=\'Brandon Brooks\' date=\'Jan 17 2004, 07:09 PM\'] Blackjack is a horrifically painful spectator sport to watch.
Brandon Brooks [/quote]
It is?
The only thing I find horrible is when someone bets a lot, and BUSTS (Goes over 21, for those who don't know your Blackjack lingo)! [/quote]
I find it ironic that you take us for idiots.
Obviously, you've never been to a casino.
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[quote name=\'Dsmith\' date=\'Jan 17 2004, 11:18 PM\'] [quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jan 17 2004, 08:24 PM\'] [quote name=\'Brandon Brooks\' date=\'Jan 17 2004, 07:09 PM\'] Blackjack is a horrifically painful spectator sport to watch.
Brandon Brooks [/quote]
It is?
The only thing I find horrible is when someone bets a lot, and BUSTS (Goes over 21, for those who don't know your Blackjack lingo)! [/quote]
I find it ironic that you take us for idiots.
Obviously, you've never been to a casino. [/quote]
I HAVE been to a casino, Don. And in no way, am I taking you guys for idiots.
AAMOF, I've been to Vegas TWICE: 1995 and 2001.
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No one is saying that Blackjack isn't fun to play (at least, I haven't seen anyone say that). The idea is that some believe it isn't fun to watch and I'd have to agree here. The only reason GSN picked Blackjack is because other channels beat them to the figurative poker table and anted up. GSN wants a flagship gaming show and this is what they feel could be it.
And GSN will own Blackjack, if only because no other channel wants it.
They should have picked up my pilot idea for Celebrity Slot Pull which features attractive, scantily clad celebs playing slots for an hour to electronica.
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I don't think my heart could handle the excitement when the regular Oreos got put away and the Double-Stuf ones came out.
Too many Oreos make you see Whammies where none exist (it's all that sugar).
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Well, if no one watches the show for the competition aspect, I would hope that the commentators would pick up on the player's decisions on his cards. It's a nice way to learn basic strategy, at least.
Perhaps if they can get blackjack experts like Arnold Snyder and Anthony Curtis as color commentators to give more insight. Who knows. I would hope that the commentators would know basic strategy inside out, so that they can explain to the viewers why the player is doubling his soft 17 versus the dealer's 6. In turn that would give the viewers some pointers on blackjack basic strategy... Always split Aces and 8's but never 5's and 10's; never take insurance, even if you have a blackjack; stand on a hard 16 versus the dealer's 2 through 6 (otherwise hit); and so on.
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GSN wants a flagship gaming show and this is what they feel could be it. And GSN will own Blackjack, if only because no other channel wants it.
See, television has been around for over half a century. Blackjack has been around much longer than that. Think there could be a REASON TV Blackjack has never taken off in that half century?
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[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Jan 18 2004, 03:11 AM\'] See, television has been around for over half a century. Blackjack has been around much longer than that. Think there could be a REASON TV Blackjack has never taken off in that half century? [/quote]
Well, poker's been around as long as blackjack as, if not longer. Maybe why TV blackjack hasn't taken off is becase NO ONE HAS TRIED IT YET?
Same reason why poker hadn't been televised regularly; no one tried it up until recently.
What's good for poker may not necessarily be good for blackjack. But we'll find out.
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[quote name=\'Brakus\' date=\'Jan 18 2004, 02:14 AM\'] Same reason why poker hadn't been televised regularly; no one tried it up until recently.
[/quote]
Well, it had been tried, but fairly recent changes - notably the small cameras that allow us to see what everyone's holding - have made it interesting.
Has GSn found some new trick to showing it? We'll see...
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I'm holding out for a revival of "Championship Bridge."
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Fresh and edgy for the 18-35 demo:
Extreme Pinochle
'Nuff Said
JOSH
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[quote name=\'Brakus\' date=\'Jan 18 2004, 03:02 AM\']Well, if no one watches the show for the competition aspect, I would hope that the commentators would pick up on the player's decisions on his cards. It's a nice way to learn basic strategy, at least.
Perhaps if they can get blackjack experts like Arnold Snyder and Anthony Curtis as color commentators to give more insight. Who knows. I would hope that the commentators would know basic strategy inside out, so that they can explain to the viewers why the player is doubling his soft 17 versus the dealer's 6. In turn that would give the viewers some pointers on blackjack basic strategy... Always split Aces and 8's but never 5's and 10's; never take insurance, even if you have a blackjack; stand on a hard 16 versus the dealer's 2 through 6 (otherwise hit); and so on.[/quote]
"Here's a table of basic strategy. Look for every player to follow this table every time."
Unless you're using Real People, or celebrities who don't know/care about basic strategy, you're not going to see much (if any) deviation from that with a table of experts sitting there. That leaves only the betting, and then it's almost like watching your friends try and get the high score on a video game. You can taunt all you want, but if they ignore you, there's nothing you can do.
That said, who's up for Celebrity Spades Showdown? World Series of Rummy?
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Admittedly - and I'm still not sold on the idea of this show - the strategy in a tournament is a bit different. You're trying to beat others at the table and advance to the next round or win the final round, so you do some things that you wouldn't do at a normal blackjack table - split 10s, for example, which may be a bad move in the long run but could help you in a close decision in the short term.
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How 'bout The All-New $10,000,000 Go Fish?
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World Championship Hearts?
National Solitaraire Championships?
Crazy Eights Cup?
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Unless you're using Real People, or celebrities who don't know/care about basic strategy, you're not going to see much (if any) deviation from that with a table of experts sitting there. That leaves only the betting, and then it's almost like watching your friends try and get the high score on a video game. You can taunt all you want, but if they ignore you, there's nothing you can do.
There's one thing we don't know yet - if they're going to use real people or use celebrities for this thing. I wouldn't think this tournament would be of the same caliber as the year-long Million Dollar Blackjack tournament at the Las Vegas Hilton. Like I said, we'll all find out soon enough. It's just sad that all you all are crapping on this concept without having seen any sort of preview for it.
That said, who's up for Celebrity Spades Showdown? World Series of Rummy?
Oh good grief. You just cued all the other regular smart-asses to chime in with their comments.
What works for poker might not work for blackjack -- but then again, it might. We don't know yet, and it pains me that all you all are jumping down GSN's throat about doing blackjack on TV without knowing what the show will be like or what kind of format it will be in.
Everyone here is like "Eww, why blackjack? That's a boring game! Not as exciting as poker! And hey, let's make fun of other card games that would be silly concepts for TV shows, like blackjack!" I thought we left all that immaturity back on ATGS. Too bad some things never change.
I'm willing to keep an open mind about this, and when I see it, I'll decide for myself. Would that you all be as respectful about that as I am when someone else defends whatever other game show they like to watch.
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[quote name=\'Brakus\' date=\'Jan 18 2004, 09:23 PM\'] Would that you all be as respectful about that as I am when someone else defends whatever other game show they like to watch. [/quote]
Jeremy, your Wrestling Defense System seems to be running a little haywire. Time to get that checked out, pal.
I have yet to hear anyone "forbidding" anyone else from watching this blackjack show, nor have I heard anyone suggest that anyone else on this board was less of a person if they chose to do so. The only negative comments I have heard suggest that they think the show is going to be boring and that they may or may not watch it as a result.
To take that as a personal affront is going a wee bit too far.
I'll watch at least once. I don't have high hopes, but I would be doing myself a disservice if I didn't at least see if I was right.
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If you play basic strategy in a blackjack tournament the whole way, you will lose. You have to do things like splitting 10s, double downing when you can bust, etc. While I don't think it will be as interesting as poker, tournament blackjack, if done right, could be somewhat interesting, as some of the plays will be dramatic and counter basic strategy.
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[quote name=\'goongas\' date=\'Jan 19 2004, 12:08 AM\'] If you play basic strategy in a blackjack tournament the whole way, you will lose. You have to do things like splitting 10s, double downing when you can bust, etc. While I don't think it will be as interesting as poker, tournament blackjack, if done right, could be somewhat interesting, as some of the plays will be dramatic and counter basic strategy. [/quote]
Uh, I don't get how you can bust when doubling down. When you double down, you only get ONE additional card.
After getting that one additional card, you have to hope that the dealer either busts, or has a hand lower than yours. It's not rocket science.
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[quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jan 18 2004, 11:19 PM\'] Uh, I don't get how you can bust when doubling down. When you double down, you only get ONE additional card.
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Okay, Mr. Vegas:
Ler's say - and this is just a hypothetical situation, mind you, I don't want to overtax your brain by citing actual tournament situations - you elect to double when your hand is a hard 12 or larger. (I'm sure you're aware - being the blackjack genius you are - that many Vegas casinos do not limit your ability to double down to a count of 9, 10, or 11, but rather allow you to double on any two cards.) The dealer gives you your one single card, and it is a picture card. Please to be answering the following questions:
1) What is the numerical value of a picture card in the game of blackjack?
2) When that value is added to the hard 12 that this hypothetical hand was at when you doubled, what would that bring your hand to?
3) Would that total be considered "busting" in blackjack lingo?
You might want to use small words when you answer that third one. After all, some of us might have a hard time understanding your great wisdom when it comes to gambling parlance, and I want to be sure that I understood what you said when you explained it to me the first time.
(Let me know if you need help with the concept of "hard 12.")
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4 Words:
World Series of Craps starring Christopher Walken played by Kevin Pollack.
Just think... Kevin Pollack's explanation of the game would take an entire segment! :-)
-- JV
(the expert is some 74-year old guy from Hoboken whose drinking a Canadian Club and smoking a moneymaker (no pun to the 2003 WSOP champion) and swears that he doesn't know John Gotti personally).
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[quote name=\'Brakus\' date=\'Jan 19 2004, 12:23 AM\'] Everyone here is like "Eww, why blackjack? That's a boring game! Not as exciting as poker! And hey, let's make fun of other card games that would be silly concepts for TV shows, like blackjack!" I thought we left all that immaturity back on ATGS. Too bad some things never change. [/quote]
If you don't like it here, you're welcome to go back to Usenet. In the meantime, please watch your choice of words on THIS forum, which is privately run (your post has been edited for content).
Also keep in mind that when "everybody" disagrees with you, it's not a collective effort to persecute you and it's not that the entire world is close-minded. It might just be that you're wrong.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Jan 19 2004, 01:02 AM\'] [quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jan 18 2004, 11:19 PM\'] Uh, I don't get how you can bust when doubling down. When you double down, you only get ONE additional card.
[/quote]
Okay, Mr. Vegas:
Ler's say - and this is just a hypothetical situation, mind you, I don't want to overtax your brain by citing actual tournament situations - you elect to double when your hand is a hard 12 or larger. (I'm sure you're aware - being the blackjack genius you are - that many Vegas casinos do not limit your ability to double down to a count of 9, 10, or 11, but rather allow you to double on any two cards.) The dealer gives you your one single card, and it is a picture card. Please to be answering the following questions:
1) What is the numerical value of a picture card in the game of blackjack?
2) When that value is added to the hard 12 that this hypothetical hand was at when you doubled, what would that bring your hand to?
3) Would that total be considered "busting" in blackjack lingo?
You might want to use small words when you answer that third one. After all, some of us might have a hard time understanding your great wisdom when it comes to gambling parlance, and I want to be sure that I understood what you said when you explained it to me the first time.
(Let me know if you need help with the concept of "hard 12.") [/quote]
I know the answer to Question #1, that you posed to me, Chris. I'll let someone else take the other 2.
Anyway, a face card is worth 10.
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[quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jan 19 2004, 02:03 PM\'] I know the answer to Question #1, that you posed to me, Chris. I'll let someone else take the other 2.
Anyway, a face card is worth 10.
[/quote]
No, I'd like YOU SPECIFICALLY to take them, since you're the one who claims that it's impossible to bust while doubling down.
You already know the answers, unless your idiocy extends to issues of basic math, too. 12 and 10 = 22, and that's a losing hand.
I'm starting to wonder if you aren't maybe trolling. People like you simply DO NOT EXIST in nature.
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I'm starting to wonder if you aren't maybe trolling. People like you simply DO NOT EXIST in nature.
Unfortunately, no, and there are much worse people....:-(
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Maybe why TV blackjack hasn't taken off is becase NO ONE HAS TRIED IT YET?
You didn't mean to beg the question, did you?
Um, do you think there could be a reason no one has tried it yet? Perhaps because it doesn't translate well to television because it's boring to watch and everyone in the television industry knows it except the people who run GSN? Could that be the same reason no one has ever tried TV Solitaire?
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Jan 19 2004, 04:24 PM\']I'm starting to wonder if you aren't maybe trolling. People like you simply DO NOT EXIST in nature.[/quote]
He really does exist. I find GSG to be very much the same as he was when I was admin'ing the Flashgames board.
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But I have changed, parliboy.
Now, Chris L., it took some time, but I finally figured it out:
If I DO double down on a hand valued at 12, and get a face card or 10, I WILL BUST, and as a result, I WILL LOSE.
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I ain't touching what this thread's become with a 67 foot stick, so I'll try to bring it back to what it was originally......
Blackjack is inherently more boring than poker is, IMO [kind of falls into "Marble Machine" syndrome; fun to play, but not many will find it fun to watch] I know I had some unkind words for this when I first heard about it, but compared to the stuff we've found out about since then, it doesn't look too bad. I liked Vagesarian on Sports Geniuses.