The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: wdm1219inpenna on April 29, 2012, 07:32:04 AM
-
What I often wondered was, why was Tic Tac Dough a game that intrigued a nation? Was this referring to the very long and successful run Lt. Thom McKee had back in 1980? Did it refer to the 1950s version being tainted by the Barry & Enright quiz show scandal? Was this opening referring to both things?
If the 1990 version had a better host & set, kept the 1978 CBS bonus game (sans the Dragon Slayer), and not emptied the pot after every tie game, I believe this program could have had a much better run than it did. About the only thing I did like, other than the updated main game board, was the players having a little bit of control on stopping the shuffle of categories.
-
My guess is they wanted to do something a little different and more "mysterious"-sounding than a standard game show opening, to try and make the show stand out a little. It just came off as awkward, though, especially introducing Wayne as "the man who will guide you through the next 30 minutes of TTD" instead of just "the host"...and then there's that theme music (seriously, was that piece of garbage really written by Henry Mancini?)
What's funny now though, is that the show used to be held up as the gold standard among crappy game shows, yet I can think of at least two others that have aired since that actually make TTD90 seem palatable.
-
My guess is they wanted to do something a little different and more "mysterious"-sounding than a standard game show opening, to try and make the show stand out a little. It just came off as awkward, though, especially introducing Wayne as "the man who will guide you through the next 30 minutes of TTD" instead of just "the host"...and then there's that theme music (seriously, was that piece of garbage really written by Henry Mancini?)
What's funny now though, is that the show used to be held up as the gold standard among crappy game shows, yet I can think of at least two others that have aired since that actually make TTD90 seem palatable.
Would Match Game '98 and Card Sharks 2001 be those two other shows?
-
What's funny now though, is that the show used to be held up as the gold standard among crappy game shows, yet I can think of at least two others that have aired since that actually make TTD90 seem palatable.
Would one of those be Thousand-Dollar Bee? (The only other ones I can think of, other than those WDM said, are Peer Pressure, Donnymid, and the American Temptation.)
The problem with Tic-Tac-Dough '90 was that, while it kept the same basic format, it was brought down by pretty much everything else -- host, sound effects (the addition, partway through, of a rapping Dragon and Dragonslayer), theme, set (thing as a whole looked way too large given where the host/contestants/board were {which in turn made it look like there was no audience}; contestant podiums specifically looked like Enright recycled them from some unsold pilot), the freaking Divorced Couples Week (done much better on Family Feud), etc.
-
set (logo didn't need to be that far out in front of the board; contestant podiums looked like B&E recycled them from an unrelated, unsold pilot), etc.
Mabel! Tic Tac Dough is back on the air! Oh look--the logo is placed awkwardly. Let's watch Quiz Kids Challenge instead.
-
Patrick Wayne was truly awful, but the rest of it wasn't overly objectionable to me. I thought the set was quite neat looking and pretty modern for its time. The theme was bizarre, but it grew on me. It always seemed like an attempt to poke fun at a preschool game being played on TV by adults. It just had that children's show sound to it...like the Child's Play theme. With a good host, I think the weird gimmicks would have seemed less distracting. Wayne just amplified them with his delivery, making the overall presentation seem super corny. Ultimately, I don't think anything could have saved the show in the end though. The early 90s was dead man walking for a whole lot of game shows thanks to trash talk.
I actually liked the revivals of TJW and TTD. They had their problems for sure, but were entertaining nonetheless...for me anyway. TJW in particular had some elements that I thought were improvements. It had a more Jeopardy!-like feel because the material was challenging. With some tweaks, I think both shows could have been worthy successors in an environment that was more friendly to game shows.
-
What I often wondered was, why was Tic Tac Dough a game that intrigued a nation? Was this referring to the very long and successful run Lt. Thom McKee had back in 1980?
Yes.
Did it refer to the 1950s version being tainted by the Barry & Enright quiz show scandal?
No.
About the only thing I did like, other than the updated main game board, was the players having a little bit of control on stopping the shuffle of categories.
So they push a button to generate a random event instead of just having the random event. Whee.
-
In retrospect, I liked the opening to the show. I like to think of it as a nod to the ending of the CBS TJW finale (except backwards).
/Those who have seen the CBS TJW finale will know what I mean.
-
/Those who have seen the CBS TJW finale will know what I mean.
What about those of us who haven't?
-
/Those who have seen the CBS TJW finale will know what I mean.
What about those of us who haven't?
Then we won't. I'm pretty at peace with that. :)
-
/Those who have seen the CBS TJW finale will know what I mean.
What about those of us who haven't?
For those who haven't, the finale ended with the set darkening piece by piece. TTD'90 starts with the set lighting up piece by piece.
-
What's funny now though, is that the show used to be held up as the gold standard among crappy game shows, yet I can think of at least two others that have aired since that actually make TTD90 seem palatable.
I can probably think of about 5 or 6, maybe more, that make TTD '90 look like TPIR by comparison.
-
The best thing about this version of the game was the opening schpiel. The set looked incomplete, the graphics were bland, and the whole half-hour seemed to drag. If I hadn't lived through the first revival, I would have wondered what the fuss was all about.
-
I would guess bad time slots also killed TTD90 even more than the crappy host, resetting the pot after ties, and the other problems with the game. In Cleveland, WJW aired TTD90 at 4 AM, followed by Quiz Kids Challenge. I saw it once in its original run, out of morbid curiosity. It was once too many.
-
I would guess bad time slots also killed TTD90 evenmore
In Seattle Tic Tac Dough was on at 7:30, against another quiz show that was six years old and hitting the peak of popularity. I don't think anything at 7:30pm was going to win the timeslot, and certainly not Tic Tac Dough. Fixing the host, the money, the set, the music, the everything would have made a better product but it wouldn't have won that particular battle.
-
I would guess bad time slots also killed TTD90 even more than the crappy host, resetting the pot after ties, and the other problems with the game. In Cleveland, WJW aired TTD90 at 4 AM, followed by Quiz Kids Challenge. I saw it once in its original run, out of morbid curiosity. It was once too many.
Jacksonville, FL was the only market I know of that had it on at a decent time, at 5:30pm, right after TJW '90. TTD was probably the reason that station's 6pm newscast suffered in the ratings that year, bad lead-in (no blame for TJW...yeah, it was different from the TJW Jack built, but at least it was a good format).
-
Phoenix had it till 1/6/91, when it was replaced by Davidson Pyramid, following Joker90.
-
I may have been four but I have a collection of TV Guides and I know that in Orlando, TJW90 was aired at 10 AM on WESH TV the NBC affiliate. Also, I wonder if Wink was ever asked to come back and host TTD90. Same goes for the unsold 1990 gambit pilot.
-
What I often wondered was, why was Tic Tac Dough a game that intrigued a nation? Was this referring to the very long and successful run Lt. Thom McKee had back in 1980?
Yes.Did it refer to the 1950s version being tainted by the Barry & Enright quiz show scandal?
No.
Not that it makes a bit of difference one way or the other, but I had always assumed that "the game that intrigued a nation" was a reference to the original 50s version.
-
Not that it makes a bit of difference one way or the other, but I had always assumed that "the game that intrigued a nation" was a reference to the original 50s version.
It's an interesting thought. Maybe it's my age, but when I think of Quiz Show Scandals, I think of Twenty One, The $64,000 Question, and MAYBE Dotto. How prevalent was Tic Tac Dough in all of that?
-
Not that it makes a bit of difference one way or the other, but I had always assumed that "the game that intrigued a nation" was a reference to the original 50s version.
It's an interesting thought. Maybe it's my age, but when I think of Quiz Show Scandals, I think of Twenty One, The $64,000 Question, and MAYBE Dotto. How prevalent was Tic Tac Dough in all of that?
I pen that to guilt by association. Twenty-one was a B&E Production and was at the heart of the quiz show scandal. The 50s TTD was also by B&E. The math was done from there.
The Inquisitive One
-
I agree with the phrase referring more to Wink/Jim's version, as it had just gone off the air 4 years prior. However, to say it "intrigued a nation" is laying the drama on a bit thick, in a way that only the Barry-Enright company could do.
Was it a smash success 10 years prior? Yes. But, Thom or no Thom, I doubt the show intrigued the nation any more than Patrick Wayne guided or led us through the half-hour.
Regis' "Millionaire"? Indeed. "Jeopardy!" during KenJen's run? Absolutely. "Tic Tac Dough"? Not so sure...
-
Maybe it's my age, but when I think of Quiz Show Scandals, I think of Twenty One, The $64,000 Question, and MAYBE Dotto. How prevalent was Tic Tac Dough in all of that?
Prime Time and Misdemeanors devotes some pretty serious ink to Tic Tac Dough, probably because it came out of the B-E stables and those were the guys he was trying hardest to get. Dotto is significant from an historical perspective as the place where the first hard evidence showed up, but at the time, it was a pretty insignificant little show.
Was it a smash success 10 years prior? Yes. But, Thom or no Thom, I doubt the show intrigued the nation any more than Patrick Wayne guided or led us through the half-hour.
Regis' "Millionaire"? Indeed. "Jeopardy!" during KenJen's run? Absolutely. "Tic Tac Dough"? Not so sure...
And I guess that's pretty much where my mind was when I first heard that phrase being used. "Intrigued the nation"? Surely they can't mean the seventies version. So even though I'm not old enough to remember the original version either, I just figured it was a vague reference to that period in the late fifties when the show was a prime-time network hit, and when the later scandals certainly "intrigued the nation".
-
See, and I remember news stories about McKee's run, and the TV Guide ads started referring to it directly and such. I think it was pretty widely covered whereas I don't think most people even KNOW it ran in the '50s.
-
I think Chris has this one. While McKee was on, Tic Tac Dough had a kind of spotlight similar to KenJen's Jeopardy run. We don't think as much about it because
[list=1]- Half of this board wasn't alive back then, and
- The media feedback loops weren't in place as much back then. In terms of TV-about-TV, you had Entertainment Tonight alone with no competition until the mid-80's, and they had plenty of other stuff to cover.
-
I think Chris has this one. While McKee was on, Tic Tac Dough had a kind of spotlight similar to KenJen's Jeopardy run. We don't think as much about it because
[list=1]- Half of this board wasn't alive back then, and
- The media feedback loops weren't in place as much back then. In terms of TV-about-TV, you had Entertainment Tonight alone with no competition until the mid-80's, and they had plenty of other stuff to cover.
I'll happily concede the point. To whatever degree I even thought about it, it had just always been the other way around in my head.
-
I don't think you even had Entertainment Tonight during the Thom McKee run. If memory serves, that was 1980, and ET didn't show up until 1981.
-
A lurker who fact-checked me and gave me a PM backs you up on that. Still, I think the essence of the point holds.
-
Could very well be too that it "intrigued" a nation in the 1950s due to its newness, coupled with the scandals that came to light, and also the 1978-86 run due to Thom McKee's magnificent run. The opening could very well apply to both versions. What intrigued me was why the CBS version wasn't given much of a chance? Tic Tac Dough was a far superior game to "Joker's Wild" yet Joker had a 3 year run on CBS. Bullseye was another B&E show I never much cared for. Play the Percentages, the first version, was awesome, even the 2nd version with the chance to win the big jackpot. Once it went to 2 solo players, it was blah I thought.
-
Tic Tac Dough was a far superior game to "Joker's Wild"
In your opinion, certainly. While I enjoy both, one of the things I dislike about Tic Tac Dough, at least in the early going, is that each game seems to follow a determinant path. Play, block, parry, block, tie game. Eventually someone screws up and the other guy is able to win the game. Yee haw.
-
Could very well be too that it "intrigued" a nation in the 1950s due to its newness, coupled with the scandals that came to light, and also the 1978-86 run due to Thom McKee's magnificent run. The opening could very well apply to both versions. What intrigued me was why the CBS version wasn't given much of a chance? Tic Tac Dough was a far superior game to "Joker's Wild" yet Joker had a 3 year run on CBS. Bullseye was another B&E show I never much cared for. Play the Percentages, the first version, was awesome, even the 2nd version with the chance to win the big jackpot. Once it went to 2 solo players, it was blah I thought.
Page 38 of the 10/16/78 issue of Broadcasting lists the daytime rankings through August of 78. Out of 27 shows, the CBS TTD came in 25th with a 3.9/21, just above America Alive and For Richer, For Poorer. You can see the PDF at David Gleason's site http://www.americanradiohistory.com
-
One of my very first recollections of Tic Tac Dough was Wink's reruns on USA (I think). Being able to read the local (Chicago Tribune) television guide at seven years old, I noticed that TTD was coming on (around) 1:00 in the morning, I wanted to try to stay up and watch the game. One night I was very sick and didn't take my medicine. Because of my mouth's refusal, a parent turned off the television at the intro of an episode. That was the only time I ever saw this version when it originally aired. I may have saw one episode as well, but I don't think I did.
When TTD '90 reran on USA (around 1993ish), I was able to understand the version with its Mancini theme and how it was so different than Wink's version. For instance, I knew about the Dragon when watching Wink's version, but was suprised to notice a Dragonslayer in the bonus round. In short, this version was different, but not bad.
Thanks to (negative) reviews and whatnot about TTD '90, I wanted to feel the same way too. I finally saw an episode from a trade and heard the "In a moment... the game that intrigued a nation. ..." intro and was wondering what was wrong with this version. In my opinion, "the game that intrigued a nation" made me think about how the game was popular in the 1950s, 1970s, and 1980s. While watching the rest of the episode, I now understood Patrick Wayne's loud win and block calls and what the people were panning about.
So basically, I guess TTD's intro was just an attempt to say they are back and better than ever. Unfortunately, a number of game show revivals have tried that (Temptation, Whammy!, Card Sharks '01, etc.) same appeal, but that didn't work out that great.
-
Page 38 of the 10/16/78 issue of Broadcasting lists the daytime rankings through August of 78. Out of 27 shows, the CBS TTD came in 25th with a 3.9/21, just above America Alive and For Richer, For Poorer. You can see the PDF at David Gleason's site http://www.americanradiohistory.com
Thanks for the link. I'm always interested in reading any rating info for daytime shows - too bad there wasn't more of it around. Did Broadcasting regularly do the dayime ratings, or just hap-hazardly once in a while?
I checked out that list and was surprised by a few things. First, that daytime reruns of All in the Family and Happy Days were doing so well - both in the top 10. I'm also kind of humbled by the fact that most of the game shows were bunched up near the bottom, with the exception of Feud. I thought some of them were doing better than that.
Another show I remember was America Alive. I guess we can see why it was cancelled if its ratings were that bad. I remember at the time NBC plugging the hell out of that show - must have been an expensive one to produce for so little reward!
-
I remember at the time NBC plugging the hell out of that show - must have been an expensive one to produce for so little reward!
Sounds like an appropriate mantra for NBC in the late 70s. See Supertrain.
-
Only occasionally did Broadcasting list the rankings, generally in relation to a story about daytime.
-
In looking over those ratings again, I really think that CBS might have been too impatient with Tic Tac Dough. Just slightly above it are Card Sharks and The New High Rollers, both relatively new shows that enjoyed multi-year runs. Maybe if CBS gave it more of a chance, especially after the nighttime version took off, they might have had something. What were they expecting - a show that could knock of Feud in its first two months?
-
In looking over those ratings again, I really think that CBS might have been too impatient with Tic Tac Dough. Just slightly above it are Card Sharks and The New High Rollers, both relatively new shows that enjoyed multi-year runs. Maybe if CBS gave it more of a chance, especially after the nighttime version took off, they might have had something. What were they expecting - a show that could knock of Feud in its first two months?
I'm not sure, but it was trailing Card Sharks, which was its 10am competition. It's also possible that CBS didn't want to promote a syndicated strip or B&E or Colbert was looking to get out so it could have more flexibility in time slots for the "nighttime" version. There was one more year that All in the Family had to run, and they moved that to 10am, plus they brought on the M*A*S*H reruns in the afternoon, with CBS paying for daytime runs for those shows, they probably felt obligated to put them on the sked. In 78, it may have been considered a subpar performance to lose the time slot to an NBC show. So many "what if's?" It's fun to speculate. TTD had its success in spite of the quick CBS cancellation.
-
Kinda off-topic, but one thing I sorta wonder is, did production on the 1978-1986 Syndicated edition hastily begin after the 9-week CBS run ended? It might have.
A quick trip over to the CBS Television City webiste reveals that the show was filmed there from June 1978-December 1980 for all but June 1979 and June 1980. Assuming the production information on that show is 100% true, I would say that June-July 1978 were the filming dates for the daytime run, and July 1978-May 1979, July 1979-May 1980, and July-December 1980 were the syndicated filming dates for season 1, season 2, and the first half of season 3 respectively (production then moved to KCOP).
-
Kinda off-topic, but one thing I sorta wonder is, did production on the 1978-1986 Syndicated edition hastily begin after the 9-week CBS run ended? It might have.
A quick trip over to the CBS Television City webiste reveals that the show was filmed there from June 1978-December 1980 for all but June 1979 and June 1980. Assuming the production information on that show is 100% true, I would say that June-July 1978 were the filming dates for the daytime run, and July 1978-May 1979, July 1979-May 1980, and July-December 1980 were the syndicated filming dates for season 1, season 2, and the first half of season 3 respectively (production then moved to KCOP).
Didn't learn a thing, eh?
-
Kinda off-topic, but one thing I sorta wonder is, did production on the 1978-1986 Syndicated edition hastily begin after the 9-week CBS run ended? It might have.
A quick trip over to the CBS Television City webiste reveals that the show was filmed there from June 1978-December 1980 for all but June 1979 and June 1980. Assuming the production information on that show is 100% true, I would say that June-July 1978 were the filming dates for the daytime run, and July 1978-May 1979, July 1979-May 1980, and July-December 1980 were the syndicated filming dates for season 1, season 2, and the first half of season 3 respectively (production then moved to KCOP).
So...you're answering your own question?
-
No, just seeing what Ian Wallis and Jimmy Owen think of my assumption.
-
Kinda off-topic, but one thing I sorta wonder is, did production on the 1978-1986 Syndicated edition hastily begin after the 9-week CBS run ended? It might have.
Don't know how hasty things would've been. They knew for awhile there would be a syndicated version no matter what (it would've sold sometime around January of '78), but likely hoped for both daytime and nighttime versions. When the CBS version bit the dust, they moved on to producing the syndie version.
-
In looking over those ratings again, I really think that CBS might have been too impatient with Tic Tac Dough. Just slightly above it are Card Sharks and The New High Rollers, both relatively new shows that enjoyed multi-year runs. Maybe if CBS gave it more of a chance, especially after the nighttime version took off, they might have had something. What were they expecting - a show that could knock of Feud in its first two months?
Another point--the chart indicates ratings were culled from January through August, but the chart doesn't include shows that weren't currently on at that time but were earlier in the year (GONG, KNOCKOUT, TSTL, PTB, among others).
I wonder how GONG's ratings were at that point (Barris long claimed NBC's decision to cancel it was more him deciding he didn't want to do it anymore as opposed to ratings not being up to snuff--of course, that didn't stop him from doing two more years of the nighttime version [granted, production for that could be wrapped fairly quickly, as opposed to the daytime series which would keep taping]).
-
No, just seeing what Ian Wallis and Jimmy Owen think of my assumption.
I would say it is a fair assumption.