The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: Twentington on February 18, 2011, 04:19:36 PM
-
Are there any hosts that you feel actually got worse at their job over time?
Looking back at some of Bob Barker's later episodes, there was always something that never sat right with me. He just seemed more curmudgeonly and distant. It seemed like even a little screw-up would get his dander up; he was having increasingly large numbers of senior moments; and he didn't joke around nearly as often. Granted, a lot of this is justified by a.) drooling fanb0i contesti b.) Bob being in his 80s and c.) the show having to run at Mach 3 to make room for all of those diabeetus commercials. (And while not related to the above, d.) the pink and purple set that looked like the Care Bears puked all over it didn't help, either.) But still, I just feel he was really slipping in his last few years. To a lesser extent, I tend to get a "cranky old man" vibe from Ludden on P+ as well.
And finally, there's Richard Karn. Once he got over his new-host jitters, I actually thought he was decent. There were many episodes in which he showed some competence at ad-libbing (e.g. "You know, most people aren't married in the third grade" when someone said that kickball was a sport that husband and wife could play together). But somewhere along the way, the best he could do was awkwardly repeat a contestant's answer a couple times, nod and then ask if it was up there. And then he got so entrenched in his catch phrases that it often felt like I was watching the same episode every time I managed to tune in.
-
Amen about Barker. And, while not necessarily bad, Rayburn's hosting over time on Match Game went downhill a bit, IMHO. Granted, the nature of the questions had changed a little bit closer to the end, which might not have fit Gene's humor as well, but I did also detect a slight bit of that same curmudgeon-ness Barker acquired over the years with Rayburn on MGHSH. Again, hosting overall was still well above par, but definitely not at his peak (yes, there were other factors to blame there too, I freely concur).
-
I have to say sadly that I don't think Tom Kennedy was as good at the end of his hosting days. I was struck when watching the first couple weeks of "Body Language" recently how he was always asking the contestants their last names indicating he hadn't been preparing ahead of time to know the names of the contestants. And on the last episode he had a total memory failure and forgot about having to play the Bonus Game.
The thing that's most sad about Tom's work is that while we have a lot of his work preserved it isn't what I would consider his *best* work which was on You Don't Say, Split Second and Name That Tune.
-
Two Feud hosts immediately come to mind. At the beginning of Richard Dawson's run he was booming, playing up the excitement and shouting those answers with authority. By the end of his run (and again on his '94 return) he was barely speaking loud enough for a mic to pick him up. He also seemed rather bored at times, and during many games was just going through the motions.
And of course, Louie Anderson. In his final year there were times he came off as wanting to be anywhere but on that set.
-
Two Feud hosts immediately come to mind. At the beginning of Richard Dawson's run he was booming, playing up the excitement and shouting those answers with authority. By the end of his run (and again on his '94 return) he was barely speaking loud enough for a mic to pick him up. He also seemed rather bored at times, and during many games was just going through the motions.
Agreed. Even in the earliest episodes he'd jump from yell to whisper at the drop of a hat, but in the later episodes it's darn near impossible to hear him at times.
-
Some of the staff who worked on WOF while Sajak was also hosting his talk show said that Pat's attention seemed to be away from the game during that time, but once his talk show was cancelled, he had bounced back and started concentrating on the show again. I don't know about anyone else, but I didn't notice any deviations in his hosting during that time.
-
The only thing I noticed about Pat Sajak was his obvious dislike for the Megaword category. He would feign enthusiasm as he introduced it, and he especially threw away the $500 bonus because the producers accepted pretty much ANY sentence.
I think Allen Ludden should get a free pass due to increasing illness. I saw an episode from his final week (his ACTUAL last show, not the one that was THOUGHT to be the last) and he seemed a bit more lost.
Drew Carey, unfortunately, gets my vote, due to a LOT of inconsistencies. Some shows he's good, some not so good, and sometimes his hosting fluctuates depending on the games played and the number of wins or losses. He STILL fumbles over rule explanations and there's NO excuse for that.
Bill Cullen wasn't TERRIBLE on TJW but if you compare TJW to his past shows, he's slower, and not as quick witted as he was in the past.
Gene Rayburn was subpar on BTB, but we all know he was woefully miscast and that he was led to believe that he would be allowed to do spontaneous, goofy things as he did on MG.
Agreed on Richard Karn... I think he pretty much just "ran on automatic" and did each show EXACTLY the same way. He missed a LOT of opportunities for snappy comments to bad answers. I think Karn got the nod because he's a genuinely likeable guy and completely different from Louie, but Feud needs great ad-libbers like John O'Hurley and Steve Harvey, both very competent Feud hosts in the recent years.
I think Jack Barry became worse too on TJW. It was pretty obvious the last couple seasons that he was getting bored, and he had "senior moments" in the bonus game, forgetting about natural triples. One of the late '84 episodes, he had time to fill after the audience game and had a lot of difficulty thinking of things to say... he was just rambling on.
-
What about Marc Summers? Some people say that everything he hosted after his signature show, Double Dare, was mediocre at best, because of him (including History IQ and WinTuition), and that he no longer had the same level of energy he had over 20 years ago.
-
Agreed on Richard Karn... I think he pretty much just "ran on automatic" and did each show EXACTLY the same way. He missed a LOT of opportunities for snappy comments to bad answers.
But as I said, he at least showed that he could come up with decent retorts (such as the "kickball" quote, or an "Ooh! Ooh! Pick me!" snark to the lady who rang in before he read the question). I wonder what made him stop? Laziness?
What about Marc Summers? Some people say that everything he hosted after his signature show, Double Dare, was mediocre at best, because of him (including History IQ and WinTuition), and that he no longer had the same level of energy he had over 20 years ago.
I would think, at least in the case of WinTuition, that the cut-and-dried nature of the game was more to blame. It's not like he could be the same dynamic guy he was on DD.
-
I'd say that you wouldn't want the same kind of hosting job for Double Dare than you would for History IQ. Wintuition didn't really allow much chance for anything other than reading the questions.
-
Looking back at some of Bob Barker's later episodes, there was always something that never sat right with me. He just seemed more curmudgeonly and distant.
About a year after Bob let his hair go gray until late 1990 or so, Bob appeared to have gained a little weight and did a good deal of scowling as observed in this clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jwp8Pvaa1cg). He didn't seem to act any more short-tempered, although when I went to a TPIR taping in June 1990 he really acted like he was "phoning it in." By 1991 you could tell he had had some nipping and tucking done (not sure if this had anything to do with the stroke he suffered that year).
-
Speaking of Bobs...
I never really cared too much for Bob Eubanks' last regular gig on Sony's remake of The Newlywed Game. He had some moments, but most of the time he sounded like he was "phoning it in" as well. He always seemed to have much more spark on the Barris incarnations of TNG, and he did pretty good on his other non-Newlywed endeavors (Card Sharks, Trivia Trap, All Star Secrets,...), but when he did the last batch of Newlyweds, he just seemed too robotic and mellow.
-
I think this was more deliberate than anything else, but I think Chuck Barris' hosting never got any better than it did when he started. In the beginning, it was VERY obvious he was reading cue cards and looked ill at ease, and although he loosened up, he wasn't necessarily BETTER. Of course, Chuck was tiring of Gong Show and tried to have it pulled off the air early. He tried booking acts that were just plain HORRIBLE and borderline appropriate for TV. (The OOPS graphic got a good workout) Jaye P Morgan joined in by exposing herself and saying the most caustic things to those that got gonged... she was the Simon Cowell of the 70s. Add to that, booking celebs that were WAY past their prime (or never were at their prime) and you've got a trainwreck. Barris only briefly appears in the final show at the beginning, middle (singing his own version of Take this Job and Shove It, with some lyrics censored) and end. Another GS regular hosted instead. The rest of the finale was a very odd "Chuck's Fable", so for that show there was only ONE judged act and the rest of the show was filled with GS regulars.
-
The thing that's most sad about Tom's work is that while we have a lot of his work preserved it isn't what I would consider his *best* work which was on You Don't Say, Split Second and Name That Tune
One thing I noticed about Tom was that he frequently misread a contestant's winnings - but that could have been due to hard-to-read cue cards off-stage. I think he was still at the top of his game on Whew! He did a great job of reading those bloopers quickly so not to disadvantage any contestant. The shows he did after that didn't require as intense reading as Whew! did.
-
I think Allen Ludden should get a free pass due to increasing illness. I saw an episode from his final week (his ACTUAL last show, not the one that was THOUGHT to be the last) and he seemed a bit more lost.
Explain please?
-
Of course, Chuck was tiring of Gong Show and tried to have it pulled off the air early. He tried booking acts that were just plain HORRIBLE and borderline appropriate for TV. (The OOPS graphic got a good workout) Jaye P Morgan joined in by exposing herself and saying the most caustic things to those that got gonged... she was the Simon Cowell of the 70s. Add to that, booking celebs that were WAY past their prime (or never were at their prime) and you've got a trainwreck.
He was and he did? Was that ever reported? The HORRIBLE acts and WAY past their prime celebs were there the whole time, I hate to tell you, and they fired Jaye P. after she bared one breast too many. Sure it was a trainwreck, but that was the appeal.
-
Of course, Chuck was tiring of Gong Show and tried to have it pulled off the air early. He tried booking acts that were just plain HORRIBLE and borderline appropriate for TV. (The OOPS graphic got a good workout) Jaye P Morgan joined in by exposing herself and saying the most caustic things to those that got gonged... she was the Simon Cowell of the 70s. Add to that, booking celebs that were WAY past their prime (or never were at their prime) and you've got a trainwreck.
He was and he did? Was that ever reported? The HORRIBLE acts and WAY past their prime celebs were there the whole time, I hate to tell you, and they fired Jaye P. after she bared one breast too many. Sure it was a trainwreck, but that was the appeal.
He did write in a couple of his books (years after the fact) that he was tiring of the show and wouldn't have minded seeing it end shortly before NBC canceled it (and realized he was having his midlife crisis on national teewee).
I question some of the validity of it, considering he did two more nighttime seasons after NBC canceled it (granted, once or twice a week instead of five shows, but still if he wanted it to end he could have).
-
He was and he did? Was that ever reported? The HORRIBLE acts and WAY past their prime celebs were there the whole time, I hate to tell you, and they fired Jaye P. after she bared one breast too many. Sure it was a trainwreck, but that was the appeal.
True, but in the beginning, they did have some celebs that certainly weren't on their way out the door... Jamie Farr was a regular, and MASH was very much going strong. David Letterman and Steve Martin were new to the comedy scene when they appeared on the show, Chuck Woolery was still doing Wheel, and Allen Ludden was between Password gigs.
-
True, but in the beginning, they did have some celebs that certainly weren't on their way out the door... Jamie Farr was a regular, and MASH was very much going strong. David Letterman and Steve Martin were new to the comedy scene when they appeared on the show, Chuck Woolery was still doing Wheel, and Allen Ludden was between Password gigs.
Remember, though, that Farr's Klinger in those days was just a one-note character. I said once on these boards that it was easier to take Klinger out of the dress once more people knew who he was, and Farr's appearances on GONG helped in that regard.
Not sure about Dave, but I'm pretty sure Steve Martin's back-to-back weeks as a judge were booked as a part of a holding deal with NBC.
Also, shifting gears--what did you mean regarding the Ludden "actual last show, not the one thought to be his last show"?
-
I question some of the validity of it, considering he did two more nighttime seasons after NBC canceled it (granted, once or twice a week instead of five shows, but still if he wanted it to end he could have).
I think you're safe to question the validity of anything Chuck Barris has ever said or written. This is a man who claimed The Dating Game was a front for his secret CIA spy work. Saying he was ready to quit just before NBC decided to drop him seems the whitest of lies by comparison, especially since, as you say, he continued to milk the syndicated show for all he could.
-
There was an episode of PW+ in the trading circuit that was THOUGHT to be the last one Ludden did. Someone posted Ludden's ACTUAL last episode on YouTube recently.
-
There was an episode of PW+ in the trading circuit that was THOUGHT to be the last one Ludden did. Someone posted Ludden's ACTUAL last episode on YouTube recently.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwasxi2RlQ0
This is part one of Ludden's last show... the one going around the trading circuit, which was reportedly his last one, Vicki and Robert are wearing red, and Allen acknowledged it.
-
There was an episode of PW+ in the trading circuit that was THOUGHT to be the last one Ludden did. Someone posted Ludden's ACTUAL last episode on YouTube recently.
Ah. I'm a very small part of the trading circuit, so I wasn't aware of the discrepancy.
-
This is a man who claimed The Dating Game was a front for his secret CIA spy work.
You mean it wasn't?
Seriously, I think there was a kernel of truth about Barris not wanting to deal with NBC people (at least for the first three seasons of the nighttime version, the network of record was ABC, with whom Barris had a much better history). Don't forget how swimmingly he and Lin Bolen got along (there are conflicting stories with Barris' two books about whether Bolen was in charge of NBC daytime at the time NBC picked GONG up--Confessions suggested she was, The Game Show King stated she wasn't). Of course, Bolen wasn't around by the time GONG left NBC, but even so Barris had a few run-ins with the network brass by then (for the Popsicle Twins, among others--yet GONG still lasted almost a full year after their appearance).
-
This is part one of Ludden's last show
I think the eerie coincidence, moreso than Allen having a rough time of it on his last episode, is that Tom Kennedy came up in a puzzle.
-Jason
-
I'd give Bill Cullen a pass with TJW. I don't think he was getting worse by the time TJW came around, but that the show wasn't a right fit for him. Cullen's "folksy grandpa" style of hosting didn't really match with the "used car salesman" feel that Jack Barry showcased.
Peter Marshall seemed to deteriorate in quality post-HS. It didn't help that two of his post-HS games, "Yahtzee" and "Reel to Reel Picture Show," were royal messes known more for backstage and internal turmoil than anything else. But Marshall looked completely lost at times on both shows, unsure of rules and format and struggling to manage the unmanagable.
JD
-
I agree with Barker and Rayburn getting worse on TPIR and MG. Age caught up with Barker and maybe Rayburn just wanted to move on. I don't agree about Ludden - he did PP till he was no longer physically able to. I know Ludden did a week on the syndie MG around the time he got ill. He sat next to Betty in the Richard Dawson memorial chair. He seemed to be enjoying himself there.
-
Seriously, I think there was a kernel of truth about Barris not wanting to deal with NBC people (at least for the first three seasons of the nighttime version, the network of record was ABC, with whom Barris had a much better history).
Is there any evidence that this is specific to NBC, thought? Since at least the late 1960s, Barris has imagined himself as a maverick(I believe that a LIFE Magazine profile from 1969 or so should be on Google Books, if you want some evidence), and his arguing with network executives would be part of that.
-
I agree with Barker and Rayburn getting worse on TPIR and MG. Age caught up with Barker and maybe Rayburn just wanted to move on.
It's funny about Rayburn. There were definitely some rollicking times on the syndicated show, especially with McLean Stevenson. Still, I wonder if both he and Brett had a harder time holding their vino as time went on. Gene seemed pretty sluggish, and Brett looked less like the life of the party, more like she was tired and needed a ride home.
-
Seriously, I think there was a kernel of truth about Barris not wanting to deal with NBC people (at least for the first three seasons of the nighttime version, the network of record was ABC, with whom Barris had a much better history).
Is there any evidence that this is specific to NBC, thought? Since at least the late 1960s, Barris has imagined himself as a maverick(I believe that a LIFE Magazine profile from 1969 or so should be on Google Books, if you want some evidence), and his arguing with network executives would be part of that.
I'm sure he had his moments with ABC people as well (Edwin Vane comes to mind during the run-through for HOW'S YOUR MOTHER-IN-LAW), but I don't think it's a coincidence that GONG was originally pitched to ABC (and the pilot taped at ABC-owned KGO in San Francisco) after the success he had with DATING and NEWLYWED, and I believe most if not all his early syndicated shows taped at ABC's studios (either the Vine Street Theatre or at Prospect and Talmedge). I don't think he'd keep going back to them for pitching and studio facility rental if he were completely at odds with their brass.
Bear in mind too that one reason Barris ended up selling GONG to NBC after reformatting the show (from a good talent showcase to a bad one) was that ABC had no more room on its schedule (they had just bought this little show called FAMILY FEUD). And Lin Bolen was the one executive who he took shots at in his books as well as one day in 1977 on air--the sign on stage that said "It's not Lin Bolen Day."
Perhaps I'm reading between the lines just a bit, but I don't know if we'd ever get a completely straight answer out of Chuckie Baby if we were to ask him now.
-
There was an episode of PW+ in the trading circuit that was THOUGHT to be the last one Ludden did. Someone posted Ludden's ACTUAL last episode on YouTube recently.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwasxi2RlQ0
This is part one of Ludden's last show... the one going around the trading circuit, which was reportedly his last one, Vicki and Robert are wearing red, and Allen acknowledged it.
Other identifying points of the "fake" last Allen episode: he is wearing a yellow ribbon on his jacket, and he plugs the NBC game show lineup at the end.
(And speaking of "fake" final episodes, still wondering about the origins of that Barry TJW reported to be the last, you know, the one with the Savers dubbed over the opening and closing)
-
You could also add Louie Anderson to that list...given his off-camera troubles later in FF's run, it seemed like there were times toward the end where he was pretty much phoning it in. Def agree w/the inclusions of Cullen, Barker and Marshall as well (though I can't help but wonder if the behind-the-scenes issues on Yahtzee and R2R had anything to do w/the latter's issues, since he seemed to do a fine job hosting that one GS Week ep on Bergeron's HS).
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby")
-
It's funny about Rayburn. There were definitely some rollicking times on the syndicated show, especially with McLean Stevenson. Still, I wonder if both he and Brett had a harder time holding their vino as time went on. Gene seemed pretty sluggish, and Brett looked less like the life of the party, more like she was tired and needed a ride home.
It was revealed later that Gene was bitterly disappointed Match Game was cancelled. I'm sure he would have continued with it if he could have, but after 9 years the ratings just weren't there anymore.
He blamed CBS for moving the show around the schedule during the last couple of years of the network days, but I wonder if it would have died a natural death anyway. It had quite a long run and I think it had just ran its course by 1982.
-
I've been watching the last weeks of the syndicated version recently and MG by then was IMO just a tired show that had indeed run its course, generating little of the fun it did in its glory days. The show had also become more and more cheap in making Audience Match and Head to Head Match questions so overly esoteric and hard that too often you had contestants failing to win much of anything.
-
I've been watching the last weeks of the syndicated version recently and MG by then was IMO just a tired show that had indeed run its course, generating little of the fun it did in its glory days.
I agree...I used to watch those eps. on GSN, and the chemistry just wasn't there. They tried, and McLean and Bill Daily were suitable replacements, but it was still not the same from the mid-70s era.
-
I've been watching the last weeks of the syndicated version recently and MG by then was IMO just a tired show that had indeed run its course, generating little of the fun it did in its glory days.
[/quote]
I agree...I used to watch those eps. on GSN, and the chemistry just wasn't there. They tried, and McLean and Bill Daily were suitable replacements, but it was still not the same from the mid-70s era.
[/quote]
While I applaud the syndicated MG for running the show as if it was live to tape, there were several noticeable edits in the syndicated run. In the syndicated run, they tried to fit in 2 bonus games per show, and they also set it up so that the Friday show would NOT straddle into Monday, because they weeks ran out of order. Sometimes that resulted in having time to kill, and Gene would do so by having members of the audience play head to head with any celeb.
-
They would not necessarily go for two bonus rounds in one show. The norm seemed more like three matches, six contestants over the course of the week, at least by the end that's what it was.
McLean Stevenson as a regular the last season, I found more irritating than amusing. Frankly, hearing McLean talk about a "dumb-off" rang more than a bit hollow with me given how he was not exactly the brightest of lights when it came to playing the game himself (remember his "Doo-doo" answers from MG73 or his even more pathetic performance on Pyramid trying to describe something as simple as "legs"?). A line like that from Dawson would have worked because no one played the game better than him and if he made a contestant the butt of a joke over his gameplaying it at least had some credibility.