The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: Jeremy Nelson on November 21, 2010, 06:04:22 PM
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Well, since it looks like all but a select few cues from the 70s/80s/ early 90s have been retired, we have a whole new generation of cues- which do you like better?
Although I like the old ones, listening to them now makes them sound even more dated. I do like quite a few of the cues that they've come up with in the past 3 or 4 years- even though it's taken a minute for a couple of them to grow on me.
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There are a few of the newer cues that are alright, but the vast majority are junk. Some of them barely even sound like songs -- they're more like a string of random notes that happen to be looped.
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[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'251358\' date=\'Nov 21 2010, 06:09 PM\']There are a few of the newer cues that are alright, but the vast majority are junk. Some of them barely even sound like songs -- they're more like a string of random notes that happen to be looped.[/quote]
I wouldn't go that far; none of the new cues really sound unmusical to me. The loops are much shorter than the old-school pieces, so their repetition is more obvious, and I find that disappointing. Makes me wonder what the rest of the piece sounds like, but I guess we won't hear any time soon.
One thing that I am finding intriguing is the use of multiple music cues within a Showcase. Some days, it seems like each prize gets its own cue. Nothing wrong with that, especially if the cues are short to begin with.
All in all, though, the musical signature of the show seems diffuse. Aside from the theme, these days Price doesn't have a "sound" that's distinct from--well, I was going to say, "all those other shows that give away prizes," but there aren't all that many. So maybe it does... But I miss the days when it sounded like there was a "house band," even if I knew perfectly well the band was pre-recorded.
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Although the 70s cues are very dated (i.e. the harp), they're still fun to listen to. I'd at least like to hear newer renditions of those cues.
Not a fan of a lot of the newer cues of the last 5-10 years, because as Steve said, they sound like a bunch of random notes strung together. Unfortunately, that's a lot of TV music, not just game shows.
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'251377\' date=\'Nov 21 2010, 10:19 PM\']Not a fan of a lot of the newer cues of the last 5-10 years, because as Steve said, they sound like a bunch of random notes strung together.[/quote]
And this is why this is called a forum....maybe I'm just not hearing this random note stringing...can someone present Exhibit A so I can see where you guys are coming from?
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There's nothing "random" about the new music. Much of what I've heard consists of a short musical phrase repeated over and over and over again. The old tunes had a distinctive melody. Not so with the new music. As unmemorable as it is, it basically consists of:
da da da da - da da da da - da da da da - da da da da
(CHORD CHANGE)
da da da da - da da da da - da da da da - da da da da
(BACK TO ORIGINAL CHORD)
da da da da - da da da da - da da da da - da da da da
(CHORD CHANGE)
da da da da - da da da da - da da da da - da da da da
(BACK TO ORIGINAL CHORD)
(REPEAT AS NEEDED)
The Score Productions cues were fully orchestrated with real instruments and Edd on the MOOG. Much of the Kalehoff stuff is predominantly synth but he does use real instruments here and there. The new stuff sounds as if it's all synth. It's probably cheap to produce and it sounds that way.
Score and Kalehoff would take a melody and do multiple variations of it, thus giving the music a unifying theme. What Stan is using now sounds like the modern-day equivalent of the old Valentino library -- disparate preproduced tunes that sound as if they were done with infomercials in mind, rather than a complete musical package. It's generic library music rather than tunes custom-composed for the show, and it sounds cheap, cheap, cheap. Can anyone reading this hum any of the new music cues?
The old music has been played to death (and is in mono) but musically it is of much higher caliber. The new stuff is stereo, but if a total synth arrangement and repetitive, forgettable chord progressions are considered "modern" and "contemporary", I'll take the old stuff any day.
/I still can't get on board with the Ricky Ricardo version of the main theme.
//The old Score Productions music is certainly better than the Ray Coniff version of Ain't We Got Fun that they used to play on the Cullen version.
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I haven't watched the show in awhile, but the new stuff doesn't sound like "real" game show music to me. It may sound good, but there's no distinct pattern like the old Score numbers. Sometimes, even before they opened the doors to reaveal a prize, I hear that distinct Kelehoff styling a split second before the prize is shown. With the classic cues, you almost knew what music was gonna be on there whether it was an IUFB or a Showcase. It's as if each cue had its own "theme" for the prizes(booming brass for cars, plucking strings for grandfather clocks, etc.). The classic cues were better than what we have now(Even on Friday, there were a couple classic cues heard).
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Definitely prefer the old school. Even at the museum I haven't listened to anything from the 1994 package on. The last good music came from 1983 package with very few exceptions. I can tolerate the 1994 theme, but thats about it.
The new cues from 2007 - Sadly i wish they went with totally different cues rather than trying to 'redo' the classic theme and opening. The tune is the same, minus a few notes, but they now have the modern 'cheesy, stereotypical' game show feel to them, rather than the old ones, which were great to listen to even on their own.
I haven't watched regularly since the late 90s, but the way the show is going too, i don't even accidentally watch now. I don't mind Drew's hosting at all...just wish everything else didn't have to go to crap.. but thats just my opinion. The times they are a changing i guess, but I guess for me TV changed the wrong way. TPIR seemed a solid show, exciting where it had to be, but had its stale parts too, which made it look solid. Now everything just looks and sounds like a cheap party.
Sorry had bit of a rant there lol.
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I want more flugelhorn!
The current music is cheesy, unmemorable, unremarkable, and unwhistlable.
\A book on the history of the music (or Score or Edd) would be unputdownable.
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the new stuff doesn't sound like "real" game show music
Fixed for you.
\A book on the history of the music (or Score or Edd) would be unputdownable.
Yeah, well good luck getting into Fort Kalehoff to talk to the guy. His right-hand man is on guard, armed and ready to shoot to kill the Crazed Theme Collector, the Musical Pedophile or the New Rochelle Axe Murderer.
You could always call his house and hope the missus answers.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'251385\' date=\'Nov 22 2010, 12:16 AM\']The old music has been played to death (and is in mono) but musically it is of much higher caliber. The new stuff is stereo, but if a total synth arrangement and repetitive, forgettable chord progressions are considered "modern" and "contemporary", I'll take the old stuff any day.
/I still can't get on board with the Ricky Ricardo version of the main theme.
//The old Score Productions music is certainly better than the Ray Coniff version of Ain't We Got Fun that they used to play on the Cullen version.[/quote]
I agree wholeheartedly. Forgettable and repetitive also describe the Donnymid theme, Whammy, 1 vs. 100, Let's Make a Deal and practically everything since WWTBAM, which actually had a melody.
And if they were going to tweak the main TPIR theme, couldn't they have somehow made it modern and better instead of worse and unpleasantly dated?
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And if they were going to tweak the main TPIR theme, couldn't they have somehow made it modern and better instead of worse and unpleasantly dated?
Edd has done a good job of keeping up with the times, meaning his arrangements today have that cheap "synth" sound (c.f. the Tony Danza cues). He took a durable melody in the TPIR theme and made it sound ... cheap. (Gotta give him credit for restoring the opening chord, though.)
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'251423\' date=\'Nov 22 2010, 02:21 PM\']
the new stuff doesn't sound like "real" game show music
Fixed for you.
\A book on the history of the music (or Score or Edd) would be unputdownable.
Yeah, well good luck getting into Fort Kalehoff to talk to the guy. His right-hand man is on guard, armed and ready to shoot to kill the Crazed Theme Collector, the Musical Pedophile or the New Rochelle Axe Murderer.
You could always call his house and hope the missus answers.
[/quote]
You should really learn to let things go.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'251430\' date=\'Nov 22 2010, 04:36 PM\'](Gotta give
him Maryann Jorgensen credit for restoring the opening chord, though.)[/quote]
Fixed.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'251430\' date=\'Nov 22 2010, 04:36 PM\']
And if they were going to tweak the main TPIR theme, couldn't they have somehow made it modern and better instead of worse and unpleasantly dated?
Edd has done a good job of keeping up with the times, meaning his arrangements today have that cheap "synth" sound (c.f. the Tony Danza cues). He took a durable melody in the TPIR theme and made it sound ... cheap. (Gotta give him credit for restoring the opening chord, though.)
[/quote]
It's always dangerous 'trying' to recreate something. I guess compared to other music packages on the air now, it does fit in with the times, however thats not a good thing. Maybe using a remix with the old theme would have been a better idea. I have heard a few home made ones on youtube that sound OK. I understand the old one wouldn't really fit with the show now, but added with something else it would have sounded more fitting. OR stop relying on MIDI sounds or something.
Mind you I guess the longer you go without changing the music on any show, the problem you have either re-creating it or changing to another one. ie, WOF. I hate the new theme, but Changing Keys was from 1984 - 2000ish in various incarnations. If TPIR did that rather than staying with the original and best, it would be less of an issue.... ah well i think.
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[quote name=\'ClockGameJohn\' post=\'251434\' date=\'Nov 22 2010, 03:02 PM\'][quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'251430\' date=\'Nov 22 2010, 04:36 PM\'](Gotta give
him Maryann Jorgensen credit for restoring the opening chord, though.)[/quote]
Fixed.[/quote]
Maryann discovered the problem but Edd fixed it.
[quote name=\'drmusic_99\' post=\'251433\' date=\'Nov 22 2010, 02:58 PM\'][quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'251423\' date=\'Nov 22 2010, 02:21 PM\']the new stuff doesn't sound like "real" game show music
Fixed for you.
\A book on the history of the music (or Score or Edd) would be unputdownable.
Yeah, well good luck getting into Fort Kalehoff to talk to the guy. His right-hand man is on guard, armed and ready to shoot to kill the Crazed Theme Collector, the Musical Pedophile or the New Rochelle Axe Murderer.
You could always call his house and hope the missus answers.
[/quote]
You should really learn to let things go.[/quote]
Welcome to our board, Mr. Prickett.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'251445\' date=\'Nov 22 2010, 09:50 PM\'][quote name=\'ClockGameJohn\' post=\'251434\' date=\'Nov 22 2010, 03:02 PM\'][quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'251430\' date=\'Nov 22 2010, 04:36 PM\'](Gotta give
him Maryann Jorgensen credit for restoring the opening chord, though.)[/quote]
Fixed.[/quote]
Maryann discovered the problem but Edd fixed it.
[/quote]
I've listened to all the edited cuts that Maryann made to add the opening chord.
Who told you he fixed it?
Perhaps you got your information from Edd's P.R. Director Andrea?
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Thats weird I never noticed it before on the show (again i haven't watched regularly for ages) but they did keep the first note from the old theme it sounds like. Weird but well done.
If not, my bad.. the few clips i've heard definitely sounds like the old starting note rather than the new 'super nintendo-ish' theme.
M
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'251423\' date=\'Nov 22 2010, 03:21 PM\']Yeah, well good luck getting into Fort Kalehoff to talk to the guy. His right-hand man is on guard, armed and ready to shoot to kill the Crazed Theme Collector, the Musical Pedophile or the New Rochelle Axe Murderer.[/quote]
Chris I know you tried something similar to this at one point and got totally stiff-armed, but I wonder if he would be willing to sit for an interview for the Archive of American Television (http://\"http://www.emmytvlegends.org/interviews/people\") collection.
No clue how one would make that happen, just sort of pondering out loud.
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My favorite among the new cues is the one they used for Most Expensive on today's show.
I think the theme from the Dealie Awards on LMAD's 100th episode would make a great TPIR Showcase cue.
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[quote name=\'robsearson\' post=\'251538\' date=\'Nov 24 2010, 10:26 AM\'][quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'251423\' date=\'Nov 22 2010, 03:21 PM\']Yeah, well good luck getting into Fort Kalehoff to talk to the guy. His right-hand man is on guard, armed and ready to shoot to kill the Crazed Theme Collector, the Musical Pedophile or the New Rochelle Axe Murderer.[/quote]
Chris I know you tried something similar to this at one point and got totally stiff-armed, but I wonder if he would be willing to sit for an interview for the Archive of American Television (http://\"http://www.emmytvlegends.org/interviews/people\") collection.
No clue how one would make that happen, just sort of pondering out loud.[/quote]
I think it's a great idea. They should also get Bob Israel. It is possible to propose subjects to the TV Academy. I've found that some of their interviews turn out well and others leave much to be desired (Ira Skutch's interview, for example, where they focused on the least interesting parts of his career and then ran out of time). Still, Bill Prickett effectively acts as Edd's gatekeeper, so I wish them luck.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'251385\' date=\'Nov 22 2010, 12:16 AM\']The old Score Productions music is certainly better than the Ray Coniff version of Ain't We Got Fun that they used to play on the Cullen version.[/quote]
Jeez, it was 1963. The target demo: Housewives born between approx. 1903 (the year my grandmother and Lawrence Welk were born) and '38 (the year my mom turned 18). That theme -- a well-composed foxtrot -- fit the show, and the times, quite perfectly.
You were expecting maybe Kings of Leon? Florence and the Machine?
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1963? More like 1956, and even then the music they were using for prize descriptions was 10 years out of date. Bob Cobert's foxtrot theme came along years later in 1963. I just watched an old TPIR clip and in addition to Ain't We Got Fun they played Beyond the Blue Horizon behind one of their home-viewer "Showcases". Johnny Olson reading prize copy over one of Edd's MOOG arrangements would probably have blown out the audio board in the Hudson Theater.
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I had to come in for this one...
I do have to admit, while some of the new cues are good, they're nowhere near as good as the ones from 1983 and beforehand. I agree that times are changing, and I wished they could resurrect some of the older cues even for just rare appearances, but it seems as if I may have a much better chance of winning the Lotto 6/49 jackpot than hearing some pre-1983 cues, to say the least.
I was happy to hear a 1983 cue when a fireplace was offered as an item up for bids this past Friday, but other than that, it was The Match Game/Hollywood Squares Hour cue for the rare 4-car playing on Race Game, and a variation of the same cue during a Showcase in the first or second week of Season 40. I haven't heard the 1983 Make Your Move or Race Game/Take Two cue since back in March, if I recall. Those cues really bring back memories whenever I hear them on TPIR nowadays. Though the oldest cue I hear on TPIR is the Grand Game intro music, which is the last stanza of the Richard Dawson era Family Feud theme, dating way back to 1976! Other than that, it's no earlier than 1983 (though if we hear any 1983 cues, we are fortunate enough to only hear one of those cues max), and for the most part, it's a 21st century cue and mostly that. The "Car Slide" cue and the mid-1990s Trip cue are the only cues from the 1990s I enjoy.
One of the very few 21st century cues I enjoy is the cue heard when the Tesla Convertible was offered during Golden Road on Earth Day 2010 (rebranded as Green Road that day) - such cue debuted in 2003 on a Million Dollar Spectacular special when a Corvette was offered during 5 Price Tags. It was also heard on the Season 40 premiere when a Porsche was offered on 3 Strikes. I also enjoy the cue played during some grocery descriptions and during some items up for bids - the one with a Stevie Wonder-style harmonica sound heard midway through the cue (and I do admit, I do enjoy Stevie Wonder's music greatly, so that cue is considered a reminder of Stevie Wonder).
All I can say is, I am going to enjoy whatever 1983 cues that are remaining as much as I can. It seems as if they slowly are disappearing from TPIR, and making way for the new stuff in which most of it is just pure crap compared to back in the day.
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but it seems as if I may have a much better chance of winning the Lotto 6/49 jackpot than hearing some pre-1983 cues, to say the least.
How so? Even if you won the money, you wouldn't be able to buy the pass to listen because it isn't eBay or Amazon.
What I like about the old music is that each piece seemed purpose-written. For "Bhen," the music for the first two prizes of Ten Chances, that feels right, like it was meant to be there and to precede a car. Ditto the music for the midrange prize of Any Number. And the ambient music for descriptions of groceries and small merchandise. There was continuity and purpose, instead of just slapping tracks in there randomly.
[slight edit for content.]
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What I like about the old music is that each piece seemed purpose-written. For "Sam," the music for the first two prizes of Ten Chances, that feels right, like it was meant to be there and to precede a car. Ditto the music for the midrange prize of Any Number. And the ambient music for descriptions of groceries and small merchandise. There was continuity and purpose, instead of just slapping tracks in there randomly.
I'd like to think that was the case, but honestly, I don't. I think that the music was written to be attractive music, and the music director snipped and cut and pasted the cues to serve the purposes of the show. We know "Splendido" to have been used (nearly) exclusively for furniture showcases, but it could just as easily have been the theme for a sitcom.
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What I like about the old music is that each piece seemed purpose-written. For "Sam," the music for the first two prizes of Ten Chances, that feels right, like it was meant to be there and to precede a car. Ditto the music for the midrange prize of Any Number. And the ambient music for descriptions of groceries and small merchandise. There was continuity and purpose, instead of just slapping tracks in there randomly.
I'd like to think that was the case, but honestly, I don't.
Well, Travis said the word "seemed," and I agree with him. Whether the music was meant for any certain purpose by the composer, the show (via producers, music supervisors, et al) created musical themes that they stuck to, by-and-large.
-Jason
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Understood. But I wonder how much "feels right" is "that's how they did it a bunch of times in a row," and how much of that was "well, it worked last time, so why bother to change?"
Don't get me wrong. I miss the old music. Although there's so much audience noise these days during prize descriptions that it's often hard to hear any music.
(Somebody get those kids off my lawn.)
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Understood. But I wonder how much "feels right" is "that's how they did it a bunch of times in a row," and how much of that was "well, it worked last time, so why bother to change?"
I would argue that it's probably quite a lot, but that the "right feeling" that resulted from it is what's ultimately important.