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The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: BrandonFG on August 22, 2009, 07:23:40 PM

Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: BrandonFG on August 22, 2009, 07:23:40 PM
While cleaning the bathtub, a new category occurred to me...THINGS WITH A RING (stop laughing, my bathtub looks fine!).

"An engaged woman's finger"...

Too descriptive or just fine?
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: tpirfan28 on August 22, 2009, 07:33:53 PM
A tremendously legal clue.

(The finger of an engaged woman - buzz)
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: Chief-O on August 22, 2009, 08:11:50 PM
Fine with me.
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: knagl on August 22, 2009, 08:17:04 PM
Ding.
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: TLEberle on August 22, 2009, 08:20:28 PM
Anytime I see one of these things, the question I ask is "Why should that clue be disqualified?" If you can't answer that, it's good. It's easier to do it that way rather than trying to make a clue "good."
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: BrandonFG on August 22, 2009, 10:28:35 PM
[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'223789\' date=\'Aug 22 2009, 08:20 PM\']Anytime I see one of these things, the question I ask is "Why should that clue be disqualified?" If you can't answer that, it's good.[/quote]
No doubt about that, but I see myself in the chair giving clues and asking myself would it make the difference between me winning $10,000/25,000 or $750, and whether the judge will say you're being too descriptive.

/Of course, if I had that many reservations, I'd just keep it simple and play it safe, i.e. Saturn, a dirty bathtub...
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: dale_grass on August 22, 2009, 11:30:14 PM
[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'223785\' date=\'Aug 22 2009, 06:23 PM\']While cleaning the bathtub, a new category occurred to me...[/quote]
Coincidentally, while cleaning the toilet, I wondered if Christopher Knight would get any more hosting gigs.
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: TLEberle on August 22, 2009, 11:59:51 PM
[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'223804\' date=\'Aug 22 2009, 07:28 PM\']No doubt about that, but I see myself in the chair giving clues and asking myself would it make the difference between me winning $10,000/25,000 or $750, and whether the judge will say you're being too descriptive.[/quote]First off, I love the idea that you're willing to back yourself by giving the clues. second, as much as I'd love to say "Bah, you won't be thinking that in the heat of the moment," I don't quite believe it myself.

But...

Quote
/Of course, if I had that many reservations, I'd just keep it simple and play it safe, i.e. Saturn, a dirty bathtub...
I think this is the key. For every person that comes here and says "is this legal?" we can come up with a bunch of bulletproof, legal, and decent clues. The Olympic flag, a freshly-cut tree, the gas giant planets, and so on. The second you deviate from that and go into this "Ooh, I have a chance to be clever here" is when you risk giving up the big bucks either because you violated the rules or because the Receiver doesn't connect the dots in time.
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: Jay Temple on August 23, 2009, 01:20:45 AM
[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'223813\' date=\'Aug 22 2009, 10:59 PM\']The second you deviate from that and go into this "Ooh, I have a chance to be clever here" is when you risk giving up the big bucks (snip) because the Receiver doesn't connect the dots in time.[/quote]
like with my clue for THINGS THAT ARE TRANSPARENT: "a Sarbanes-Oxley-compliant business practice"

But I don't think "an engaged woman's finger" goes that far. It's just a solid clue, not a "trying-to-be-clever" clue.
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: TLEberle on August 23, 2009, 01:28:30 AM
[quote name=\'Jay Temple\' post=\'223823\' date=\'Aug 22 2009, 10:20 PM\']like with my clue for THINGS THAT ARE TRANSPARENT: "a Sarbanes-Oxley-compliant business practice"

But I don't think "an engaged woman's finger" goes that far. It's just a solid clue, not a "trying-to-be-clever" clue.[/quote]Right. There's a line there, and it's fuzzy. If you're thinking about if the clue will get zapped, keep digging, because you are spending time debating instead of cluing.
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: Bill Neuweiler on August 23, 2009, 01:33:28 AM
I would like to think I've got the phrasing down.  When I play along, I'll hesitate if I think my clue is synom with the answer--I might avoid "Polished Shoes" for "Things that Shine"--right or wrong I'd try to err on the side of caution.
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: GameShowGuru on August 23, 2009, 02:09:38 AM
Here's one if you want to be really clever and you have a very saavy partner:

The Godfather
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: Kevin Prather on August 23, 2009, 05:20:58 AM
If you're nervous about "An engaged woman's finger", just go with "Your fiancee's finger" and call it good.
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: Jimmy Owen on August 23, 2009, 07:31:35 AM
[quote name=\'Kevin Prather\' post=\'223834\' date=\'Aug 23 2009, 05:20 AM\']If you're nervous about "An engaged woman's finger", just go with "Your fiancee's finger" and call it good.[/quote]


What if your partner doesn't have a fiancee? :)  A telephone, a boxing arena.  

/Boxing is a sport in which two big muscular guys get into a ring to fight over a purse.
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: Ian Wallis on August 23, 2009, 12:01:55 PM
Quote
Right. There's a line there, and it's fuzzy. If you're thinking about if the clue will get zapped, keep digging, because you are spending time debating instead of cluing.

What I might have done is try the clues I know for sure are legal, and if the seconds kept ticking by and my partner wasn't getting it, then give the clue I'm not sure about.  By that time there's probably only a few seconds left anyway and if you get buzzed, you probably wouldn't have won it.  If my partner gets it at the last second, then I've got a big win!
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: clemon79 on August 23, 2009, 02:42:13 PM
[quote name=\'GameShowGuru\' post=\'223829\' date=\'Aug 22 2009, 11:09 PM\']The Godfather[/quote]
"People who find pimping difficult!" (http://\"http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/4602/godfather7dz.jpg\")
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: Kevin Prather on August 23, 2009, 03:43:00 PM
[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'223838\' date=\'Aug 23 2009, 04:31 AM\']A telephone[/quote]
Oh, no you don't. A telephone rings, but it does not HAVE a ring. A ringER maybe. I'd buzz that in a heartbeat.
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: TLEberle on August 23, 2009, 03:51:05 PM
[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'223838\' date=\'Aug 23 2009, 04:31 AM\']What if your partner doesn't have a fiancee? :)[/quote]Even if that's true, I suspect the partner has the mental capacity to imagine one, which is more credit than you're willing to give him credit for.
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: Jimmy Owen on August 23, 2009, 04:47:46 PM
[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'223866\' date=\'Aug 23 2009, 03:51 PM\'][quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'223838\' date=\'Aug 23 2009, 04:31 AM\']What if your partner doesn't have a fiancee? :)[/quote]Even if that's true, I suspect the partner has the mental capacity to imagine one, which is more credit than you're willing to give him credit for.
[/quote]


That was just an attempt at humor.  That's why I put the smiley thingy on it.
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: TLEberle on August 23, 2009, 04:53:20 PM
[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'223868\' date=\'Aug 23 2009, 01:47 PM\']That was just an attempt at humor.  That's why I put the smiley thingy on it.[/quote]Humor's a funny thing, isn't it.
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: Jimmy Owen on August 23, 2009, 04:55:29 PM
[quote name=\'Kevin Prather\' post=\'223865\' date=\'Aug 23 2009, 03:43 PM\'][quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'223838\' date=\'Aug 23 2009, 04:31 AM\']A telephone[/quote]
Oh, no you don't. A telephone rings, but it does not HAVE a ring. A ringER maybe. I'd buzz that in a heartbeat.
[/quote]


My telephone has a ring.  Otherwise I don't know if someone is calling. :)  Does your buzzer have a buzz or a buzzerer?
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: Jimmy Owen on August 23, 2009, 05:14:49 PM
[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'223869\' date=\'Aug 23 2009, 04:53 PM\'][quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'223868\' date=\'Aug 23 2009, 01:47 PM\']That was just an attempt at humor.  That's why I put the smiley thingy on it.[/quote]Humor's a funny thing, isn't it.
[/quote]


Only if you put the little smiley thingy on it. :)
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: clemon79 on August 23, 2009, 05:18:04 PM
[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'223870\' date=\'Aug 23 2009, 01:55 PM\']My telephone has a ring.  Otherwise I don't know if someone is calling. :)  Does your buzzer have a buzz or a buzzerer?[/quote]
Your telephone produces a sound that is commonly known as a "ring". That is not the same as "having a ring."

I'd buzz you too, though at this point it would be more for being obstinate about it than anything.
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: CarShark on August 23, 2009, 05:41:07 PM
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'223872\' date=\'Aug 23 2009, 05:18 PM\'][quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'223870\' date=\'Aug 23 2009, 01:55 PM\']My telephone has a ring.  Otherwise I don't know if someone is calling. :)  Does your buzzer have a buzz or a buzzerer?[/quote]
Your telephone produces a sound that is commonly known as a "ring". That is not the same as "having a ring."

I'd buzz you too, though at this point it would be more for being obstinate about it than anything.
[/quote]
Sorry, Chris. You and Kevin are wrong. Once again, referencing Merriam-Webster.com (http://\"http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ring\"):

2. a clear resonant sound made by or resembling that made by vibrating metal

A telephone rings AND has a ring. So does a bell, which you'd get from the judge.
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: clemon79 on August 23, 2009, 05:43:25 PM
[quote name=\'CarShark\' post=\'223873\' date=\'Aug 23 2009, 02:41 PM\']Sorry, Chris. You and Kevin are wrong. Once again, referencing Merriam-Webster.com (http://\"http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ring\"):

2. a clear resonant sound made by or resembling that made by vibrating metal[/quote]
Except...this is exactly my argument for why I would buzz it. So, thanks for the backup! :)

Although, there is an overarching point that is worth making, too: these are judgment calls. The Pyramid judge wasn't even consistent 100% of the time. (Damn near, but not 100%.) So when me and Kevin are saying "we'd buzz that", that's us saying that WE BELIEVE that clue to be illegal. And then you come in and say "you're wrong." Not "I think you're wrong," not "I'd make a different call were it me," just "you're wrong." Which, to me, and especially considering your (futile) crusade to run me off of this board by trying to point out what an asshole I am at every perceived opportunity, speaks volumes.
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: Joe Mello on August 23, 2009, 06:10:29 PM
[quote name=\'Kevin Prather\' post=\'223834\' date=\'Aug 23 2009, 05:20 AM\']If you're nervous about "An engaged woman's finger", just go with "Your fiancee's finger" and call it good.[/quote]
or "your spouse's finger."  "Your fourth finger" probably causes a headache, buzz or not.

I'm not as keen to "A nice-sounding phrase" getting past.
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: TLEberle on August 23, 2009, 07:08:01 PM
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'223872\' date=\'Aug 23 2009, 02:18 PM\']I'd buzz you too, though at this point it would be more for being obstinate about it than anything.[/quote]I'll drink to that.


[quote name=\'CarShark\' post=\'223873\' date=\'Aug 23 2009, 02:41 PM\']Sorry, Chris. You and Kevin are wrong.[/quote]Of all the people to make that judgment, you come in at number six billion and twelve.
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: CarShark on August 23, 2009, 10:32:49 PM
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'223874\' date=\'Aug 23 2009, 05:43 PM\']Except...this is exactly my argument for why I would buzz it. So, thanks for the backup! :)

Although, there is an overarching point that is worth making, too: these are judgment calls. The Pyramid judge wasn't even consistent 100% of the time. (Damn near, but not 100%.) So when me and Kevin are saying "we'd buzz that", that's us saying that WE BELIEVE that clue to be illegal. And then you come in and say "you're wrong." Not "I think you're wrong," not "I'd make a different call were it me," just "you're wrong."[/quote]Ridiculous. Unless you can prove somehow that a telephone doesn't have or can't have "a clear resonant sound made by or resembling that made by vibrating metal," you ARE indeed wrong. There's nothing to debate. There's nothing to judge.

Quote
Which, to me, and especially considering your (futile) crusade to run me off of this board by trying to point out what an asshole I am at every perceived opportunity, speaks volumes.
Hey, just because there's someone to point out what an asshole you can be at times, doesn't mean you have to stop. :) Goodness knows you haven't stopped after being Isobooth'd for two weeks. Of course, it's been so long, I can't blame you if the effect has worn off. That assumes of course, that you recognized that you go too far with your snideness and sarcasm and poison the atmosphere for all, instead of just shrugging it off as a fluke and trusting in the overly lenient moderation style GSF's usually had that's become more apparent now that only the two remaining (and most lenient) moderators are here to apply it.

Quote
Of all the people to make that judgment, you come in at number six billion and twelve.
Come off it. Just because you don't like me doesn't mean I can't have a point. It just makes you that much more likely to be too stubborn to acknowledge it.
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: TLEberle on August 23, 2009, 10:50:07 PM
[quote name=\'CarShark\' post=\'223906\' date=\'Aug 23 2009, 07:32 PM\']Come off it. Just because you don't like me doesn't mean I can't have a point. It just makes you that much more likely to be too stubborn to acknowledge it.[/quote]You're allowed to have a point. It's wrong. The fact that I don't like you has zero bearing on the issue.
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: TLEberle on August 23, 2009, 10:51:59 PM
[quote name=\'CarShark\' post=\'223906\' date=\'Aug 23 2009, 07:32 PM\']that you recognized that you go too far with your snideness and sarcasm and poison the atmosphere for all[/quote]Excuse me, when were you allowed to be the mouthpiece for Nearly Everyone on GSF? You certainly don't speak for me, and I don't feel that way.

(This here? This is why I put zero stock in your judgment.)
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: Bill Neuweiler on August 23, 2009, 11:00:47 PM
A Charming Phrase may have a certian Ring to it, much in the same way your cell phone may have many different rings.  I think if it were in fact buzzed there would be enough of a case against it to reverse the decision.  Otherwise the audience might riot, and really, who needs that?
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: BrandonFG on August 23, 2009, 11:04:23 PM
[quote name=\'CarShark\' post=\'223906\' date=\'Aug 23 2009, 10:32 PM\']nstead of just shrugging it off as a fluke and trusting in the overly lenient moderation style GSF's usually had that's become more apparent now that only the two remaining (and most lenient) moderators are here to apply it.[/quote]
I don't care who you are, that's just not right.
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: TLEberle on August 23, 2009, 11:13:43 PM
[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'223915\' date=\'Aug 23 2009, 08:04 PM\'][quote name=\'CarShark\' post=\'223906\' date=\'Aug 23 2009, 10:32 PM\']nstead of just shrugging it off as a fluke and trusting in the overly lenient moderation style GSF's usually had that's become more apparent now that only the two remaining (and most lenient) moderators are here to apply it.[/quote]I don't care who you are, that's just not right.[/quote]Oh wow, I totally passed over that.

Stay classy, CS.
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: CarShark on August 24, 2009, 01:22:47 PM
[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'223916\' date=\'Aug 23 2009, 11:13 PM\'][quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'223915\' date=\'Aug 23 2009, 08:04 PM\'][quote name=\'CarShark\' post=\'223906\' date=\'Aug 23 2009, 10:32 PM\']nstead of just shrugging it off as a fluke and trusting in the overly lenient moderation style GSF's usually had that's become more apparent now that only the two remaining (and most lenient) moderators are here to apply it.[/quote]I don't care who you are, that's just not right.[/quote]Oh wow, I totally passed over that.

Stay classy, CS.
[/quote]
Gimme a break. All I said was that Mr. Zinkin was a decent enforcer, and I kind of admired him for that, but since he's passed, there seems to be no effort to stop Chris Lemon from his needless and constant berating. And of course you don't see a problem with it. At times, you're just as bad.
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: clemon79 on August 24, 2009, 01:29:16 PM
Gotta say, there's no finer way to get Our Benevolent Moderators to do your bidding than to tell them what a crappy job you think they're doing.

Did this work with Brendy?
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: HYHYBT on August 24, 2009, 04:46:46 PM
The great thing about clues like "an engaged woman's finger" is that it points straight at the answer and really can't possibly mean anything else*. It's the sort of clue Dick Clark would trot out when they weren't quite putting the other clues together, guaranteed to make the player not only say "ring" but smack herself for not seeing sooner that that's what the Olympic flag and a bathtub have in common. I don't see how its legality would ever come into question, so I'm not sure why it's here, but it's certainly not in the category of being too clever for your own good, like the ones that, legal or not, no one in their right mind would ever use unless you knew your partner had the same interests. (An example from last summer's Password that's stuck with me: you're allowed three one-word clues, and the password was "comb." Paired with someone from this group, the string of clues "feud, host, ray" would probably work, but with a stranger you'd be insane to try it.)
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: Jimmy Owen on August 24, 2009, 08:03:16 PM
Then again, if your partner is, say, Coolio or Snoop Dogg, a good clue for comb might be "Puffy."
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: Casey on August 24, 2009, 08:32:42 PM
[quote name=\'CarShark\' post=\'223906\' date=\'Aug 23 2009, 08:32 PM\']Ridiculous. Unless you can prove somehow that a telephone doesn't have or can't have "a clear resonant sound made by or resembling that made by vibrating metal," you ARE indeed wrong. There's nothing to debate. There's nothing to judge.[/quote]
There's clearly a difference between "Things That Ring" which is what you are describing and "Things With A Ring" which you are not.

And I don't know about anyone else, but I haven't owned a phone with a real bell in it since the mid 1980s...
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: Dbacksfan12 on August 24, 2009, 10:09:27 PM
[quote name=\'CarShark\' post=\'223906\' date=\'Aug 23 2009, 09:32 PM\']Ridiculous. Unless you can prove somehow that a telephone doesn't have or can't have "a clear resonant sound made by or resembling that made by vibrating metal," you ARE indeed wrong. There's nothing to debate. There's nothing to judge.[/quote]Dude, let it go.

The show isn't there to provide scientific analysis as to whether or not something has a ring or not.  The show is there to provide entertainment.  

And by saying there is "nothing to debate", you are admitting there is no purpose to discuss anything.  So why post?
Quote
Then again, if your partner is, say, Coolio or Snoop Dogg, a good clue for comb might be "Puffy."
Cripes.
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: pyrfan on August 26, 2009, 01:34:38 AM
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'223872\' date=\'Aug 23 2009, 05:18 PM\'][quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'223870\' date=\'Aug 23 2009, 01:55 PM\']My telephone has a ring.  Otherwise I don't know if someone is calling. :)  Does your buzzer have a buzz or a buzzerer?[/quote]
Your telephone produces a sound that is commonly known as a "ring". That is not the same as "having a ring."
[/quote]
Would you agree that a telephone can have a distinctive ring? Or a loud ring? Or an annoying ring? If it can have any of those types of rings, then it stands to reason that a phone can indeed have a ring.

And not that this is the best litmus test of whether a clue should be legal (a point you made later in the thread), but the judges did allow "a bell" as a clue for this category in the past, so if a bell can have a ring, I would think a telephone could, too. But I'll also say that I raised an eyebrow when the clue was first given, until I thought about it.

Interesting that this particular subject came up when discussing legality of clues. The first time I auditioned for the show, contestant coordinator Lisa Furubotten gave an example of a clue that would be buzzed in THINGS THAT HAVE A RING: "a married finger."


Brendan

Uh...just for the record, "Brendy" isn't supposed to be me, is it? I lose track of all the charming pet names on this forum.
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: clemon79 on August 26, 2009, 01:45:22 AM
[quote name=\'pyrfan\' post=\'224135\' date=\'Aug 25 2009, 10:34 PM\']Would you agree that a telephone can have a distinctive ring? Or a loud ring? Or an annoying ring?[/quote]
Do I agree those are slang terms for "the sound this phone makes is distincting, loud, annoying?" Yes. Do I agree, strictly grammatically, that a telephone "has" those? No.
Quote
but the judges did allow "a bell" as a clue for this category in the past, so if a bell can have a ring, I would think a telephone could, too.
I agree that if "a bell" was accepted, then "a telephone" should be ruled similarly. That said, if I'm the judge, I'd have buzzed "a bell" for the same reasons that I'm arguing here.
Quote
Uh...just for the record, "Brendy" isn't supposed to be me, is it? I lose track of all the charming pet names on this forum.
Brendy is the first name of Guide Angel, who moderates the GSN boards.
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: Jay Temple on August 27, 2009, 12:30:16 AM
[quote name=\'pyrfan\' post=\'224135\' date=\'Aug 26 2009, 12:34 AM\']Interesting that this particular subject came up when discussing legality of clues. The first time I auditioned for the show, contestant coordinator Lisa Furubotten gave an example of a clue that would be buzzed in THINGS THAT HAVE A RING: "a married finger."[/quote]
There is no contradiction between accepting other things we've discussed and buzzing that one. It's very similar to the "French potato" clue (THINGS THAT ARE FRIED) in that there is no such distinctive object as a French potato, nor a married finger. I've argued for "a long rose" in the past, and even I agree with buzzing "a married finger."
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: Loogaroo on August 27, 2009, 03:53:19 AM
The difference between "a married finger" and "a married woman's finger" is that the former is coining a phrase. Fingers don't get married.
Title: Another Pyramid hypothetical
Post by: Mr. Armadillo on August 27, 2009, 11:47:01 AM
Tell that to Mr. Greco.