The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: timpale on July 20, 2009, 01:35:11 PM
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Heres a question which would be well suited for those "in the biz". What happens to a game show's set at the end of its life? Of course I assume it gets dismantled and sent to some landfill, but the December 1987 cancellation of the $25,000 Pyramid makes me wonder. It returned 4 months later with the same exact set (not a reconstruction). Was it being housed in CBS Television City "just in case"? And then when the $100,000 Pyramid returned 3 years later in syndication with Davidson its set was reconstructed almost to the letter. I'm guessing Bob Stewart & co had blueprints lying around.
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[quote name=\'timpale\' post=\'220556\' date=\'Jul 20 2009, 12:35 PM\']It returned 4 months later with the same exact set (not a reconstruction). Was it being housed in CBS Television City "just in case"?[/quote]The $100,000 Pyramid was still airing in that time. All that was required was a sign change.
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[quote name=\'timpale\' post=\'220556\' date=\'Jul 20 2009, 01:35 PM\']Heres a question which would be well suited for those "in the biz". What happens to a game show's set at the end of its life? Of course I assume it gets dismantled and sent to some landfill, but the December 1987 cancellation of the $25,000 Pyramid makes me wonder. It returned 4 months later with the same exact set (not a reconstruction). Was it being housed in CBS Television City "just in case"? And then when the $100,000 Pyramid returned 3 years later in syndication with Davidson its set was reconstructed almost to the letter. I'm guessing Bob Stewart & co had blueprints lying around.[/quote]
I wondered about that, except it was between the $20K and $50K...
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[quote name=\'timpale\' post=\'220556\' date=\'Jul 20 2009, 10:35 AM\']Heres a question which would be well suited for those "in the biz". What happens to a game show's set at the end of its life?[/quote]
It goes into Bob Boden's living room, apparently.
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Producers don't always burn sets immediately upon cancellation, but I don't know how the determination is made whether to keep a set intact and continue to pay for its storage. Based on what little I know:
Alex Trebek once said that when Battlestars was first cancelled, NBC advised them not to burn the set, hinting that they might bring it back.
The original FF set was stored outside under a tarp on the ABC Prospect lot, where some of the wooden pieces became slightly warped. That same set was used later for the Ray Combs version of the show taped at CBS. The Ferranti-Packard end game board and its associated control equipment were kept. The set was used for the last time in an Old Navy commercial and then destroyed.
When NBC cancelled HS in 1980, Heatter-Quigley took the show to Las Vegas but NBC wanted to sell the set to H-Q for an outlandish sum of money (so the story goes) and it was cheaper for H-Q to build an entirely new set, including the game board. It's surprising that H-Q didn't own the set by then, which presumably had been built for the CBS pilot in 1964.
The Tattletales set was burned after its first cancellation and a new one, slightly modified, had to be built in 1981.
Generic reusables such as scoreboard readouts are kept, but the custom-built controlling electronics would be discarded.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'220572\' date=\'Jul 20 2009, 03:06 PM\']It goes into Bob Boden's living room, apparently.[/quote]
A separate outbuilding, actually. The living room is normal-sized and couldn't possibly hold the set pieces he has. Not to mention the wife wouldn't allow it.
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[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'220566\' date=\'Jul 20 2009, 11:31 AM\'][quote name=\'timpale\' post=\'220556\' date=\'Jul 20 2009, 12:35 PM\']It returned 4 months later with the same exact set (not a reconstruction). Was it being housed in CBS Television City "just in case"?[/quote]The $100,000 Pyramid was still airing in that time. All that was required was a sign change.
[/quote]
And if I'm not mistaken, the two $25,000 signs didn't look the same. The second one had the same font as the $100,000 sign.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'220573\' date=\'Jul 20 2009, 03:08 PM\']The original FF set was stored outside under a tarp on the ABC Prospect lot, where some of the wooden pieces became slightly warped. That same set was used later for the Ray Combs version of the show taped at CBS. The Ferranti-Packard end game board and its associated control equipment were kept. The set was used for the last time in an Old Navy commercial and then destroyed.[/quote]
Interesting. I had heard the original Dawson set was kept, but it was so damaged that it had to be completely rebuilt for the Combs version. And the Old Navy commercial was fairly recent - I'm surprised the Smithsonian wasn't interested in at least part of the original set.
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Alex Trebek once said that when Battlestars was first cancelled, NBC advised them not to burn the set, hinting that they might bring it back.
Maybe that was true in the beginning...either that or Charlie Tuna lied! :)
I was in the studio audience for a couple episodes of The New Battlestars in 1983. During the question-answer session Charlie did as part of his warmup, I asked him if it was a new set, or did they just keep the old one for a year. He replied (along with a stage hand) that it was a completely new set.
Another audience member asked him if that was the same set used for Hollywood Squares. He replied, "...yeah...we just bent it a little!"
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Didn't NBC have a salvage yard full of old set pieces?
-Dan
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[quote name=\'dazztardly\' post=\'220580\' date=\'Jul 20 2009, 03:36 PM\']Didn't NBC have a salvage yard full of old set pieces?
-Dan[/quote]
Randy West once mentioned (http://\"http://gameshow.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=7504&view=findpost&p=81927\") that a neon palm tree from Trebek concentration was still around
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[quote name=\'Kevin Prather\' post=\'220575\' date=\'Jul 20 2009, 03:19 PM\']And if I'm not mistaken, the two $25,000 signs didn't look the same.[/quote]
You would be. :) Here's part of the first show back (http://\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZTLNa2Ynwg\").
-Jason
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Charlie Tuna lied! :)
Or was simply "misinformed". An audience member asks a question to which you don't know the answer, so you make one up ;-)
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'220574\' date=\'Jul 20 2009, 02:12 PM\'][quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'220572\' date=\'Jul 20 2009, 03:06 PM\']It goes into Bob Boden's living room, apparently.[/quote]
A separate outbuilding, actually. The living room is normal-sized and couldn't possibly hold the set pieces he has. Not to mention the wife wouldn't allow it.
[/quote]
Even so, I still chuckled at the thought. Don't ruin it for me. :)
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[quote name=\'JasonA1\' post=\'220583\' date=\'Jul 20 2009, 04:19 PM\'][quote name=\'Kevin Prather\' post=\'220575\' date=\'Jul 20 2009, 03:19 PM\']And if I'm not mistaken, the two $25,000 signs didn't look the same.[/quote]
You would be. :) Here's part of the first show back (http://\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZTLNa2Ynwg\").
-Jason
[/quote]
where do you all see the difference?
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[quote name=\'Bill Neuweiler\' post=\'220675\' date=\'Jul 20 2009, 10:40 PM\']where do you all see the difference?[/quote]
They don't, that's his point. Jason is saying that Kevin's mistaken that the two looked different.
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got it...i was a little slow on the uptake
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And the placard on the podium was the same -- presumably they were just in storage. Maybe there was a smart prop master who knew Blackout wouldn't last.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'220573\' date=\'Jul 20 2009, 12:08 PM\']... The original FF set was stored outside under a tarp on the ABC Prospect lot, where some of the wooden pieces became slightly warped. That same set was used later for the Ray Combs version of the show taped at CBS. The Ferranti-Packard end game board and its associated control equipment were kept. The set was used for the last time in an Old Navy commercial and then destroyed...[/quote]
Because Bob Boden turned it down due to space limitations, and because I couldn't standy to see it lost forever, I am storing that Ferranti-Packard board. It hangs in its original custom built wooden crate with "FF" and IATSE logos. The yellow dots that move to form the characters all seem to be functional, and there are a bunch of extras for back-up. Because it would need to be fully rerprogrammed in an extinct language, I turned down the controller until such time (if ever) it could be brought back to life. Then a ring of my doorbell could trigger just about anything ;-)
To the larger question, Chris (of course) has it right. I watched Vista Electronics do a chop-shop job on the Weakest Link podiums on the final tape date, salvaging the reusable parts including the monitors and reveal buttons. Sad to watch, but show biz has no heart - it's a biz.
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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Randy, you might know this: was the original Jeopardy! set still in storage at 30 Rock and thus recycled for the Jeopardy 1999! SNL sketch a year or two later? They look pretty much alike (except the absence of a curtain for the board reveal), and at that point, SNL didn't have the kind of budget that would allow it to rebuild a game show set from scratch.
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I know Joker and Tic Tac were kept in storage after they went off the air in the mid 80s. Some joker parts were recycled onto the 1990 update.
The set for the 2001 update of Card Sharks was recycled for the set of Whammy.
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[quote name=\'calliaume\' post=\'220732\' date=\'Jul 21 2009, 10:15 AM\']Randy, you might know this: was the original Jeopardy! set still in storage at 30 Rock and thus recycled for the Jeopardy 1999! SNL sketch a year or two later? They look pretty much alike (except the absence of a curtain for the board reveal), and at that point, SNL didn't have the kind of budget that would allow it to rebuild a game show set from scratch.[/quote]
Don't know. I was already in LA for many years. Seems doubtful, but that's just a hunch.
Keep in mind, that board was pretty simple. I remember watching J! tapings at 30 Rock as an impressionable kid and incredulous that the cards were beling pulled by two old guys, one with holes in his cardigan sweater! I spoke with him, and still have the art card from that episode's Final J!. ;-)
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' post=\'220730\' date=\'Jul 21 2009, 09:59 AM\']Because Bob Boden turned it down due to space limitations, and because I couldn't standy to see it lost forever, I am storing that Ferranti-Packard board.[/quote]
So that same board was used for both the Dawson and the Combs shows? Was it just that the controller ran faster due to boosts in technology by the time they got to Combs?
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So that same board was used for both the Dawson and the Combs shows? Was it just that the controller ran faster due to boosts in technology by the time they got to Combs?
Not just the board, the entire set. The Ferranti-Packard readouts were $100 per character in the '70s. The original Jacquard computer which controlled it was replaced with an IBM PC in the '80s.
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[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' post=\'220738\' date=\'Jul 21 2009, 12:40 PM\']I ... still have the art card from that episode's Final J!. ;-)[/quote]
So maybe you can answer a question I've had, since I was a kid: Were those art cards created with something along the lines of PresType? Or were they done with a hot-press? Or ... ?
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[quote name=\'geno57\' post=\'220748\' date=\'Jul 21 2009, 12:44 PM\'][quote name=\'tvrandywest\' post=\'220738\' date=\'Jul 21 2009, 12:40 PM\']I ... still have the art card from that episode's Final J!. ;-)[/quote]
So maybe you can answer a question I've had, since I was a kid: Were those art cards created with something along the lines of PresType? Or were they done with a hot-press? Or ... ?
[/quote]
I know nothing of graphics, but will try to answer. If "Prestype" invloves each letter being transfered individually, I'd say NO because all of the type is perfectly straight. The letters are not raised (thicker than the card stock), and appear and feel to be bonded to the cardstock with a slight indentation into the card around the perimeter of each letter. Does that help identify the process? What was/is that called?
btw, as a B&W viewer I was suprised to see that the type was YELLOW on a black background.
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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Just wondering, was the 1991 "Grid Set" from J! destroyed (or is most of it in Mr. Boden's garage)?
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'220743\' date=\'Jul 21 2009, 02:58 PM\']...The Ferranti-Packard readouts were $100 per character in the '70s.[/quote]
Holy sh*#. That's expensive, even today!
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[quote name=\'calliaume\' post=\'220732\' date=\'Jul 21 2009, 01:15 PM\']Randy, you might know this: was the original Jeopardy! set still in storage at 30 Rock and thus recycled for the Jeopardy 1999! SNL sketch a year or two later?[/quote]
I do remember reading that the Jeopardy! set was reconstructed for the Weird Al Yankovic video "I Lost on Jeopardy". It looked pretty loyal to the real thing, right down to the fonts on the answer cards. It suggested to me that they had access to original blueprints. As a whole, though, things looked smaller than I remembered them.
Does everyone here know the story of how, after the "Sushi Bar" J! set was completed, some employee at Metromedia Square (or wherever J! was being taped at the time) noticed the original 8-foot-tall letters spelling JEOPARDY were being hauled off to the dumpster? So he managed to salvage at least 3 letters intact (J, P, and Y among them I think) to sell on eBay. However, the opening bid was like $2k and no one bit, so he lowered it to like $50 and eventually sold them.
Of course, just before the sushi bar was retired, Alex himself announced the sale of parts of the set on eBay, including the contestant podiums (podia?), with the proceeds going to some charitable cause. I think one podium was bought by one of the tournament champions.
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The letters are not raised (thicker than the card stock), and appear and feel to be bonded to the cardstock with a slight indentation into the card around the perimeter of each letter. Does that help identify the process? What was/is that called?
That there art card was made with a hot press. Metal type was laid out on a hot plate having a flat metal surface. The hot metal letters were picked up with big forceps and placed into a metal carrier which was then loaded into a big stamping thingie. Below the stamping thingie was placed an art card and a piece of plastic with some kind of pigment stuff on one side. The operator pulled a lever, causing the thingie to stamp the card with the plastic foil in between the type and the card, and the heat transferred the pigment stuff to the front surface of the card. Make sense? And this was for just ONE LINE of type. If an "answer" had three lines, this process had to be repeated for each line. Jeopardy! must have had LOTS of people working full time making those hot-press cards.
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[quote name=\'TheLastResort\' post=\'220576\' date=\'Jul 20 2009, 03:19 PM\']I'm surprised the Smithsonian wasn't interested in at least part of the original set.[/quote]
Perhaps they were, it's just that the Smithsonian only accepts items that are donated. Which means someone would have had to pay for shipping the set 2500 miles from California. Not like Fonzie's leather jacket or Archie Bunker's chair, which could have just been UPS-ed. Display space at the museum for something that large might also be an issue.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'220790\' date=\'Jul 21 2009, 07:45 PM\']
The letters are not raised (thicker than the card stock), and appear and feel to be bonded to the cardstock with a slight indentation into the card around the perimeter of each letter. Does that help identify the process? What was/is that called?
That there art card was made with a hot press. Metal type was laid out on a hot plate having a flat metal surface. The hot metal letters were picked up with big forceps and placed into a metal carrier which was then loaded into a big stamping thingie. Below the stamping thingie was placed an art card and a piece of plastic with some kind of pigment stuff on one side. The operator pulled a lever, causing the thingie to stamp the card with the plastic foil in between the type and the card, and the heat transferred the pigment stuff to the front surface of the card. Make sense? And this was for just ONE LINE of type. If an "answer" had three lines, this process had to be repeated for each line. Jeopardy! must have had LOTS of people working full time making those hot-press cards.
[/quote]
Perfectly described, sir. While on the subject, what was the likely process for the 30 cards in each round on the big board? At times they appeared hand lettered, in that the type was compressed to accommodate long "answers". But they were too print-perfect for hand work.
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' post=\'220793\' date=\'Jul 21 2009, 09:53 PM\']Perfectly described, sir. While on the subject, what was the likely process for the 30 cards in each round on the big board? At times they appeared hand lettered, in that the type was compressed to accommodate long "answers". But they were too print-perfect for hand work.[/quote]
For longer answers, they'd prolly just use a narrower version of the usual font.
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I'm thinking all 61 cards were hot pressed. In order to keep up with production they'd have to make 61 of those multi-line cards per day[/b], so I'm thinking they must have had five or six full-time "artists" churning them out. Based on my limited experience in TV graphics during that era, I can't think of any other technology they would have used. Nowadays if you wanted to do 61 hard art cards like that you'd do it all on computer and print the background (blue part) onto white or yellow card stock and have gallons and gallons of blue ink on hand.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'220829\' date=\'Jul 22 2009, 02:05 PM\']I'm thinking all 61 cards were hot pressed. In order to keep up with production they'd have to make 61 of those multi-line cards per day[/b], so I'm thinking they must have had five or six full-time "artists" churning them out. Based on my limited experience in TV graphics during that era, I can't think of any other technology they would have used. Nowadays if you wanted to do 61 hard art cards like that you'd do it all on computer and print the background (blue part) onto white or yellow card stock and have gallons and gallons of blue ink on hand.[/quote]
Yep. Nowadays, we just print a decal or stick a piece of cardstock into a printer...and trim it with a paper guillotine and an exacto knife.
I have appreciation for those roots. Stickers on posterboard, hotpress, slides, anyway you slice it. It was quite a beast back then for the production value. Even though I do everything cgi, I still am a purist by heart. I'm more of a fan of watching a spinning trilon, over a video monitor.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'220829\' date=\'Jul 22 2009, 03:05 PM\']I'm thinking all 61 cards were hot pressed. In order to keep up with production they'd have to make 61 of those multi-line cards per day[/b], so I'm thinking they must have had five or six full-time "artists" churning them out.[/quote]
How thick were the cards back in the 60s/70s?
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Would "Eye Guess" and "Concentration" have used similar art card set-ups?
On "Eye Guess" (the one episode GSN showed) there was a difference between the board the home audience saw during the eight second study time and the actual on-set board. I wonder why that was?
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How thick were the cards back in the 60s/70s?
It was called Crescent board and was, mmm, about 3/32" or 1/8" thick. It came in sheets which measured 22" x 28" and had to be cut into quarters to get four 11" x 14" cards:
http://www.crescentcardboard.com/ (http://\"http://www.crescentcardboard.com/\")
Would "Eye Guess" and "Concentration" have used similar art card set-ups?
In all likelihood. I dispute Norm Blumenthal's assertion that the Concentration puzzle pieces were made on plywood. Plywood would be heavy and expensive and would need to be cut with a saw in a shop and just plain overkill. They were likely on cardboard. I'll call Norm at home and ask him.
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Tonight might not be a good night to call Norm. I hear he's invited the Kalehoffs over for dinner.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'220885\' date=\'Jul 23 2009, 03:47 AM\']Tonight might not be a good night to call Norm. I hear he's invited the Kalehoffs over for dinner.[/quote]
As guests or as the main course? There is that axe murderer running around New Rochelle -- gotta be careful.
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I have nothing really to add to this conversation other than just wanting to say that as a fan, I really enjoyed reading this thread and would love it if one day Bob Boden put his collection on some sort of public display.