The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: Chris Kennedy on July 19, 2009, 05:50:23 PM
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Would anybody know where I can find the schematics of that show's pinball machine, as I'd like to build my own soon.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thank you so much in advance,
Chris Kennedy
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They very likely do not exist.
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I can't tell you how to build one, but I can give you the list of materials used to build TMMM, according to the 'Encyclopedia of TV Game Shows--3rd Edition', page 132-133:
- 250 lbs. of nails
- 21,120 ft. (4 miles) of electrical wiring
- 38 gal. of glue
- 23 coiled springs
- Enough glass for 10 car windshields
- 25 Two-lb. balls
- 14 gal. of gold paint (for the pinballs used).
The giant pinball set took over sixty days to build. If someone could find the original blueprints, you probably could be able to build one to scale, using an electronic measuring converter, sold at architect supply stores for about $50-100. FYI, Jim Newton designed the set.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'220503\' date=\'Jul 19 2009, 05:53 PM\']They very likely do not exist.[/quote]
But, damn, that'd be a living room-full of home-built replica amazement. Or, more likely, high school gym-full.
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[quote name=\'Clay Zambo\' post=\'220507\' date=\'Jul 19 2009, 04:10 PM\']But, damn, that'd be a living room-full of home-built replica amazement. Or, more likely, high school gym-full.[/quote]
I was giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming he was going for something tabletop-sized.
It really wasn't all *that* complicated of a system (and I'm saying that from the position of someone who is confident enough to follow a schematic - lord knows *I* couldn't do it)...to build it today you'd really only need to design the scorekeeping logic. (And I'm not convinced *that* wasn't done manually from the control room on the show.) Everything else was just impact-of-ball-trips-circuit-which-then-makes-something-flash-and-boop.
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This is a highly uneducated opinion as a pinball fan only and not an expert on how they work (not unlike my stature with respect to game shows, actually)...
Perhaps a schematic from another pinball machine of that era could be adopted to get the general idea of how they worked. Machines of the time were more electro-mechanical than solid state (probably already obvious to the OP) so if the diagram of, say, "Fireball" could be borrowed and adopted, that would be a start. The MMM machine, while very much larger than the usual, also seemed to me to be a lot simpler than the usual as well. One hit, one score, no sequences, no bonus advance for getting drop targets, etc.
Which also makes me wonder the scoring was done manually; I hadn't thought of that, Chris, but now that you bring it up...
Off topic but perhaps of interest: Just opened is "Silverball Museum" of pinball machines and "Pinball Hall of Fame" of pinball in Asbury Park, New Jersey... just read about it from a clipping my parents sent this way. (The band "The Smithereens" which remade "Tommy" posed at a few vintage machines for the story.)
Partially constructed website at http://silverballmuseum.com (http://\"http://silverballmuseum.com\") ; no affiliation but hope to get there soon.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'220509\' date=\'Jul 19 2009, 06:36 PM\']... impact-of-ball-trips-circuit-which-then-makes-something-flash-and-boop.[/quote]
David Carradine was hooked up to just such a device three hours before he died.
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[quote name=\'dale_grass\' post=\'220522\' date=\'Jul 19 2009, 10:08 PM\'][quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'220509\' date=\'Jul 19 2009, 06:36 PM\']... impact-of-ball-trips-circuit-which-then-makes-something-flash-and-boop.[/quote]
David Carradine was hooked up to just such a device three hours before he died.
[/quote]
Wrong. Just wrong.
/Translation: I lol'd
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[quote name=\'dale_grass\' post=\'220522\' date=\'Jul 19 2009, 09:08 PM\'][quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'220509\' date=\'Jul 19 2009, 06:36 PM\']... impact-of-ball-trips-circuit-which-then-makes-something-flash-and-boop.[/quote]
David Carradine was hooked up to just such a device three hours before he died.
[/quote]
I just wet 'em.
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Let's get back to the discussion at hand. I, too, was a pinball fanatic starting when I was a teenager. I then was lucky enough to get a job at a pinball arcade. :)
Part of my duties were to make minor repairs to the machines when they broke down, so I got the see the insides of many a machine. This was around 1980 to about '82, just before the electromechanicals gave way to computerized scoring, and the amount of interior wiring quickly became a lot less.
The majority of the wiring did deal with scoring. There were wires that had to run from every single possible scoring location, all leading to the scoreboard mechanism. There was also a rotating drum that kept track of special items such as when the chance for a free ball or "Special" lit up. It also helped keep track of mulitple points, like a 50, 500, 5000, etc., scoring target being hit.
Now as to machines and schematics, there was at least one oversize pinball machine commercially released called "Superman" (naturally). The ball wasn't a normal sized silver ball, but was a cue ball, and the flippers were very large -- almost like miniature baseball bats. If you can find a schematic or at least a picture of it, it might help with your plans.
BTW, the machine's size was about 3 to 4 times the size of the regular pinball machine.
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[quote name=\'Mr. Bill\' post=\'220641\' date=\'Jul 20 2009, 07:17 PM\']Now as to machines and schematics, there was at least one oversize pinball machine commercially released called "Superman" (naturally). The ball wasn't a normal sized silver ball, but was a cue ball, and the flippers were very large -- almost like miniature baseball bats. If you can find a schematic or at least a picture of it, it might help with your plans.[/quote]
"Hercules." "Superman" was one of Atari's wide-body tables.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'220652\' date=\'Jul 20 2009, 11:18 PM\'][quote name=\'Mr. Bill\' post=\'220641\' date=\'Jul 20 2009, 07:17 PM\']Now as to machines and schematics, there was at least one oversize pinball machine commercially released called "Superman" (naturally). The ball wasn't a normal sized silver ball, but was a cue ball, and the flippers were very large -- almost like miniature baseball bats. If you can find a schematic or at least a picture of it, it might help with your plans.[/quote]
"Hercules." "Superman" was one of Atari's wide-body tables.
[/quote]
Sorry, Chris, I've never seen "Hercules" anywhere to date and probably never will now. Yes, the one we had was Atari's "Superman" and it was an oversize pinball machine. There may have been a later machine with the same name that's a wide-body table, but this one was produced in 1980 or 1981, IIRC. It was electromechanical, not computerized.
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[quote name=\'Mr. Bill\' post=\'220696\' date=\'Jul 21 2009, 08:35 AM\']Sorry, Chris, I've never seen "Hercules" anywhere to date and probably never will now. Yes, the one we had was Atari's "Superman" and it was an oversize pinball machine. There may have been a later machine with the same name that's a wide-body table, but this one was produced in 1980 or 1981, IIRC. It was electromechanical, not computerized.[/quote]
At last check Cedar Point amusement park had a handful of them.
You may also wish to try http://www.pinballstore.com (http://\"http://www.pinballstore.com\") . It is a huge pinball shop in Toledo, actually in neighboring Maumee, conveniently located off of the Ohio Turnpike @ Reynolds Road (I highly recommend visiting if you ever get out there).
They do have a Hercules for sale, and should have accompanying drawings, schematics & such.
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Here's a little write-up (http://\"http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?any=hercules&searchtype=quick#4394\") on Hercules. Doesn't look like it fits the description of anything in this thread...
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'220702\' date=\'Jul 21 2009, 06:10 AM\']Here's a little write-up (http://\"http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?any=hercules&searchtype=quick#4394\") on Hercules. Doesn't look like it fits the description of anything in this thread...[/quote]
Not the same Hercules. This (http://\"http://www.lyonspinball.com/images/elec_games/hercules_overall.jpg\") is the one to which I am referring, and the one I believe Mr. Bill has confused with Superman (http://\"http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?gid=2454\").
If there's an EM giant-sized version of Superman made two years after most of the industry went solid-state, I find it curious that none of the pinball databases know about what would be a pretty significant machine.
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Hersheypark had Hercules (the same one in the link that Chris L. posted) for a long time.
I was just beginning to cut my pinball teeth, so to say, at 12 1/2 and was absolutely mesmerized by that machine. I could hardly handle both flippers at once, and the ball was mega-size as well...
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I saw Hercules two years ago, when I went to the annual California Extreme (http://\"http://www.caextreme.org/\") classic arcade game show in the San Jose area -- it's apparently a regular feature there.
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[quote name=\'trainman\' post=\'220794\' date=\'Jul 21 2009, 08:02 PM\']I saw Hercules two years ago, when I went to the annual California Extreme (http://\"http://www.caextreme.org/\") classic arcade game show in the San Jose area -- it's apparently a regular feature there.[/quote]
We had one at the Northwest Pinball Expo this year, too. (Sadly, it wasn't turned on, though.)
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'220737\' date=\'Jul 21 2009, 01:34 PM\']If there's an EM giant-sized version of Superman made two years after most of the industry went solid-state, I find it curious that none of the pinball databases know about what would be a pretty significant machine.[/quote]
OK, Chris, I looked at the picture of Hercules and it is definitely NOT what we had. Apparently I was a bit hazy on the arrival date, it would have been 1979 since we got one of the very first ones off the line from a very limited run of apparently around 3,000 total units.
Either way, I concede the point that it was an insignificant moment in pinball history. Hercules made the bigger impression.
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We have a Hercules pinball machine at the Minnesota State Fair. Been there for several years, and still gets play.
As for trying to conquer remaking the MMM, don't. Unless it's a profit job, it's a waste of time and money.
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[quote name=\'dazztardly\' post=\'221045\' date=\'Jul 24 2009, 06:06 PM\']it's a waste of time and money.[/quote]
And who are you to be telling someone what they can and cannot enjoy as a hobby?
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'221065\' date=\'Jul 25 2009, 03:59 AM\'][quote name=\'dazztardly\' post=\'221045\' date=\'Jul 24 2009, 06:06 PM\']it's a waste of time and money.[/quote]
And who are you to be telling someone what they can and cannot enjoy as a hobby?
[/quote]
Agreed. Of course, 34 years later, I am still trying to determine why it took so much paint for
a few MMM silver and gold balls! Maybe that explains the slow game play a bit.
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[quote name=\'irwinsjournal.com\' post=\'220516\' date=\'Jul 19 2009, 09:35 PM\']Off topic but perhaps of interest: Just opened is "Silverball Museum" of pinball machines and "Pinball Hall of Fame" of pinball in Asbury Park, New Jersey... just read about it from a clipping my parents sent this way. (The band "The Smithereens" which remade "Tommy" posed at a few vintage machines for the story.)
Partially constructed website at http://silverballmuseum.com (http://\"http://silverballmuseum.com\") ; no affiliation but hope to get there soon.[/quote]
Hey, thanks for the tipoff on this place! I am gonna try to get over there sometime this week. This may be the same feller who had the Asbury Amusement Factory up until a few summers ago.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'221065\' date=\'Jul 25 2009, 02:59 AM\'][quote name=\'dazztardly\' post=\'221045\' date=\'Jul 24 2009, 06:06 PM\']it's a waste of time and money.[/quote]
And who are you to be telling someone what they can and cannot enjoy as a hobby?
[/quote]
Cork it. I was only offering my two-sense. With the crazy requests we get on here, I figured he wanted to attempt a full-scale replica. If he wants to attempt it(no matter within the size), good luck. I called Guinness World Records a few years ago. If it peaks interest, there's no record documented for the World's Largest Pinball Machine. I'd love to see it happen someday.
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[quote name=\'dazztardly\' post=\'221344\' date=\'Jul 28 2009, 04:29 PM\']Cork it. I was only offering my two-sense.[/quote]
Ironic typo is ironic.
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Ok folks, I want to make something clear right now. Just to clarify, I actually wanted to make a regular sized home pinball table version of TMMM, not the real full scale replica, though one day when I have the energy to do so, and funding, I'd do it or something similar. No need for arguing or fighting and snide comments also. That's all.
Peace,
Chris
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[quote name=\'Robair\' post=\'221323\' date=\'Jul 28 2009, 08:30 AM\'][quote name=\'irwinsjournal.com\' post=\'220516\' date=\'Jul 19 2009, 09:35 PM\']Off topic but perhaps of interest: Just opened is "Silverball Museum" of pinball machines and "Pinball Hall of Fame" of pinball in Asbury Park, New Jersey... just read about it from a clipping my parents sent this way. (The band "The Smithereens" which remade "Tommy" posed at a few vintage machines for the story.)
Partially constructed website at http://silverballmuseum.com (http://\"http://silverballmuseum.com\") ; no affiliation but hope to get there soon.[/quote]
Hey, thanks for the tipoff on this place! I am gonna try to get over there sometime this week. This may be the same feller who had the Asbury Amusement Factory up until a few summers ago.
[/quote]
Sorry, couldn't PM you on this, "not allowed."
Please let me know what you think if you do get over there. I'm hoping it's worth a side trip from my parents' place next month.
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[quote name=\'irwinsjournal.com\' post=\'221587\' date=\'Jul 31 2009, 04:17 PM\']Please let me know what you think if you do get over there. I'm hoping it's worth a side trip from my parents' place next month.[/quote]
Three words: run, don't walk.
This place is GREAT! Almost 100 vintage pins with all the classics there (Wizard, Fireball, Central Park), all on free play and all immaculate and all working properly. You are going to want to pop an entire $20 and stay for the whole day. That's how good it is.
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Thanks, Robair. Sounds like a winner to me... I'll defintely have to build in some time during the next trip to Joisey.
/Sorry, Mom & Dad, I'm off to relive my childhood...
//We now return you to GS content, already in progress...
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If you can get the swing of working with a microcontroller like Arduino or MAKE, that will help you as well in your efforts.
-Dan
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I think a good way to recreate the MMM table would be with Future Pinball or Visual Pinball. They're both nifty programs, but I think FP produces better looking tables.