The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: mmb5 on February 28, 2009, 02:23:52 PM
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In finding that all elusive Gene Rayburn hosting MG '87 picture, I stumbled upon the syndicated ratings for Nov. 1986. I'm listing game shows only, they (Broadcasting) only listed the top 40 overall shows:
1. Wheel of Fortune 19.3 rating/99.6 clearance
2. Jeopardy 12.3/98.4
4. Newlywed Game 8.9/96.5
14. Hollywood Squares 7.2/86.1
18. Card Sharks 6.6/35.0
30. $100,000 Pyramid 5.2/40.4
33. Dating Game 5.1/84.1
Not making the survey:
$1,000,000 Chance of a Lifetime
You Write the Songs
Dream Girl USA
Crosswits
I didn't realize the clearance for Pyramid and Card Sharks was so poor.
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[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'209090\' date=\'Feb 28 2009, 02:23 PM\']
I didn't realize the clearance for Pyramid.....was so poor.
[/quote]
Was WOR the only channel showing it at 7pm at this point? I do know that partway through the 1985-86 season, instead of "tonight's special guests" it became "today's special guests" in Jack/Johnny/every other announcer's introduction of the celebrities.
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[quote name=\'Don Howard\' post=\'209093\' date=\'Feb 28 2009, 02:40 PM\']
[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'209090\' date=\'Feb 28 2009, 02:23 PM\']
I didn't realize the clearance for Pyramid.....was so poor.
[/quote]
Was WOR the only channel showing it at 7pm at this point? I do know that partway through the 1985-86 season, instead of "tonight's special guests" it became "today's special guests" in Jack/Johnny/every other announcer's introduction of the celebrities.
[/quote]
I always thought the 'tonight' thing was because, as often was the case, a nighttime strip syndie version of show currently running on daytime strip, had certain clearance guidelines - in that it could not air during certain dayparts, so it wouldn't compete against the network version.
Regards to clearance, syndie card sharks doesn't surprise me, but pyramid does a bit. But one thing is for sure...even "Dating Game"'s ratings at a 5.1? What show today wouldn't kill for a number like that!
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[quote name=\'tvwxman\' post=\'209097\' date=\'Feb 28 2009, 03:56 PM\']
[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'209090\' date=\'Feb 28 2009, 02:23 PM\']
I didn't realize the clearance for Pyramid.....was so poor.
[/quote]
I always thought the 'tonight' thing was because, as often was the case, a nighttime strip syndie version of show currently running on daytime strip, had certain clearance guidelines - in that it could not air during certain dayparts, so it wouldn't compete against the network version.
[/quote]
Except for Wheel, none of the top 4 had to worry about a network counterpart, so they could go anywhere on the schedule.
I believe at that point, Wheel, Newlywed Game, and Hollywood Squares were cleared on the O&Os of CBS, NBC, and ABC, respectively, for their 7:30/6:30 PM time slots.
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[quote name=\'calliaume\' post=\'209100\' date=\'Feb 28 2009, 03:03 PM\']
I believe at that point, Wheel, Newlywed Game, and Hollywood Squares were cleared on the O&Os of CBS, NBC, and ABC, respectively, for their 7:30/6:30 PM time slots.
[/quote]
With the possible exception of the NYC market......Wheel was still on WCBS and wouldn't make it to WABC until 1990.
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[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'209090\' date=\'Feb 28 2009, 03:23 PM\']
I didn't realize the clearance for Pyramid was so poor.
[/quote]
Now the show not airing here in St. Louis does seem that unusual in hindsight.
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Just wondering, was "Strike it Rich" even on the list?
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[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'209090\' date=\'Feb 28 2009, 02:23 PM\']
18. Card Sharks 6.6/35.0
[/quote]
Since you said syndicated, this listing would be for the one-and-done Rafferty version. What in the hell led from the show going from top 20 in the syndicated ratings to cancelled between November and May?
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[quote name=\'Seth Thrasher\' post=\'209140\' date=\'Feb 28 2009, 07:15 PM\']
[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'209090\' date=\'Feb 28 2009, 02:23 PM\']
18. Card Sharks 6.6/35.0
[/quote]
Since you said syndicated, this listing would be for the one-and-done Rafferty version. What in the hell led from the show going from top 20 in the syndicated ratings to cancelled between November and May?
[/quote]
4 years ago before i was born, Card Sharks was carried on ABC7 in San Francisco, as for Los Angeles it's Carried on KNBC Channel 4 which also carried the Jim Perry run from 1978 to 1982.
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[quote name=\'calliaume\' post=\'209100\' date=\'Feb 28 2009, 02:03 PM\']
I believe at that point, Wheel, Newlywed Game, and Hollywood Squares were cleared on the O&Os of CBS, NBC, and ABC, respectively, for their 7:30/6:30 PM time slots.
[/quote]
Except for good ol' Chicago, as Wheel was on WLS at 6:30, Newlywed was on WMAQ at 6:30 and Squares, IIRC, was on WPWR.
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[quote name=\'Seth Thrasher\' post=\'209140\' date=\'Feb 28 2009, 07:15 PM\']
[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'209090\' date=\'Feb 28 2009, 02:23 PM\']
18. Card Sharks 6.6/35.0
[/quote]
Since you said syndicated, this listing would be for the one-and-done Rafferty version. What in the hell led from the show going from top 20 in the syndicated ratings to cancelled between November and May?
[/quote]
WABC NY moved it out of early fringe to the wee hours to make room for Oprah...and the rest is history.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'209145\' date=\'Feb 28 2009, 07:21 PM\']
[quote name=\'Seth Thrasher\' post=\'209140\' date=\'Feb 28 2009, 07:15 PM\']
[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'209090\' date=\'Feb 28 2009, 02:23 PM\']
18. Card Sharks 6.6/35.0
[/quote]
Since you said syndicated, this listing would be for the one-and-done Rafferty version. What in the hell led from the show going from top 20 in the syndicated ratings to cancelled between November and May?
[/quote]
WABC NY moved it out of early fringe to the wee hours to make room for Oprah...and the rest is history.
[/quote]
Exactly. Clearances, or lack thereof.
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[quote name=\'bandit_bobby\' post=\'209138\' date=\'Feb 28 2009, 07:10 PM\']
Just wondering, was "Strike it Rich" even on the list?
[/quote]
Oops, sorry, forgot about that one. Wasn't on the list.
--Mike
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[quote name=\'calliaume\' post=\'209100\' date=\'Feb 28 2009, 02:03 PM\']
I believe at that point, Wheel, Newlywed Game, and Hollywood Squares were cleared on the O&Os of CBS, NBC, and ABC, respectively, for their 7:30/6:30 PM time slots.
[/quote]
Certainly not in Los Angeles. Wheel, Jeopardy! and Newlywed were all on KCOP. Pyramid and Hollywood Squares were paired with $1,000,000 Chance of a Lifetime on KHJ (now KCAL). The following season, High Rollers was added on KHJ to form a 2-hour prime access/prime time block.
I think the last game KNBC had any luck with was the original syndie Feud. They got stuck with Rafferty CS and Doug Davidson's TPIR, and those were the ones they showed while the majority of people were awake!
'Brian
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[quote name=\'GameShowFan\' post=\'209215\' date=\'Mar 1 2009, 12:37 PM\']
[quote name=\'calliaume\' post=\'209100\' date=\'Feb 28 2009, 02:03 PM\']
I believe at that point, Wheel, Newlywed Game, and Hollywood Squares were cleared on the O&Os of CBS, NBC, and ABC, respectively, for their 7:30/6:30 PM time slots.
[/quote]
Certainly not in Los Angeles. Wheel, Jeopardy! and Newlywed were all on KCOP. Pyramid and Hollywood Squares were paired with $1,000,000 Chance of a Lifetime on KHJ (now KCAL). The following season, High Rollers was added on KHJ to form a 2-hour prime access/prime time block.
[/quote]
I stand corrected. I was under the impression Newlywed had gone to the NBC O&Os starting in 1985, and that Wheel and Hollywood Squares had struck similar deals. It was a big kerfluffle in New York when Entertainment Tonight, which had aired on WABC at 7:30 for years, was moved to make room for Squares (and when ABC World News Tonight moved to 6:30 to make room for the 7:00 airing of Jeopardy).
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[quote name=\'calliaume\' post=\'209217\' date=\'Mar 1 2009, 10:51 AM\']
[quote name=\'GameShowFan\' post=\'209215\' date=\'Mar 1 2009, 12:37 PM\']
[quote name=\'calliaume\' post=\'209100\' date=\'Feb 28 2009, 02:03 PM\']
I believe at that point, Wheel, Newlywed Game, and Hollywood Squares were cleared on the O&Os of CBS, NBC, and ABC, respectively, for their 7:30/6:30 PM time slots.
[/quote]
Certainly not in Los Angeles. Wheel, Jeopardy! and Newlywed were all on KCOP. Pyramid and Hollywood Squares were paired with $1,000,000 Chance of a Lifetime on KHJ (now KCAL). The following season, High Rollers was added on KHJ to form a 2-hour prime access/prime time block.
[/quote]
I stand corrected. I was under the impression Newlywed had gone to the NBC O&Os starting in 1985, and that Wheel and Hollywood Squares had struck similar deals. It was a big kerfluffle in New York when Entertainment Tonight, which had aired on WABC at 7:30 for years, was moved to make room for Squares (and when ABC World News Tonight moved to 6:30 to make room for the 7:00 airing of Jeopardy).
[/quote]
LA was always oddball. KCBS had Jeopardy! for the first six weeks, canceled it, and didn't get it back until WoF/J! moved to the CBS O&Os around 1989, when WoF moved to CBS (studio and network).
KNBC carried the original syndie Feud, but little else. (They got burned by Rafferty CS and Davidson TPIR.) IIRC, KABC had syndie Match Game, and then did not have another game until WoF/J! moved to the ABC O&Os (1995?).
Curiously, the O&O LA stations carried very few games in general, instead focusing on their own local shows in prime access. (Who here remembers 2 On The Town and Eye On L.A.?)
'Brian
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[quote name=\'GameShowFan\' post=\'209221\' date=\'Mar 1 2009, 12:35 PM\']
LA was always oddball. KCBS had Jeopardy! for the first six weeks, canceled it, and didn't get it back until WoF/J! moved to the CBS O&Os around 1989, when WoF moved to CBS (studio and network).
[/quote]
I gotta call shenanigans on that because J! has always aired on a non-CBS O&O in my area and Wheel moved from one in '89.
Unless I'm missing something.
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[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'209245\' date=\'Mar 1 2009, 01:37 PM\']I gotta call shenanigans on that because J! has always aired on a non-CBS O&O in my area and Wheel moved from one in '89.
Unless I'm missing something.
[/quote]
Yeah, I'm not sure there was ever a deal involving the entire CBS O&O group -- it may well have been WCBS and KCBS only. In addition to being on WPVI in Philly, Wheel and J! were ensconced on WLS in Chicago by at least 1990.
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1. Wheel of Fortune 19.3 rating/99.6 clearance
2. Jeopardy 12.3/98.4
4. Newlywed Game 8.9/96.5
14. Hollywood Squares 7.2/86.1
18. Card Sharks 6.6/35.0
30. $100,000 Pyramid 5.2/40.4
33. Dating Game 5.1/84.1
I'm surprised by the big difference in the ratings/clearances for Newlywed Game vs Dating Game. In many markets they were paired up with each other, but in each syndicated version Newlywed seemed to do far better. Although I've never actually seen the ratings, I've read here and there that they were closer to each other while on the network.
For the record, I think I always preferred Dating Game just a bit over Newlywed Game.
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[quote name=\'GameShowFan\' post=\'209221\' date=\'Mar 1 2009, 12:35 PM\']
LA was always oddball. KCBS had Jeopardy! for the first six weeks, canceled it, and didn't get it back until WoF/J! moved to the CBS O&Os around 1989, when WoF moved to CBS (studio and network).
KNBC carried the original syndie Feud, but little else. (They got burned by Rafferty CS and Davidson TPIR.) IIRC, KABC had syndie Match Game, and then did not have another game until WoF/J! moved to the ABC O&Os (1995?).
Curiously, the O&O LA stations carried very few games in general, instead focusing on their own local shows in prime access. (Who here remembers 2 On The Town and Eye On L.A.?)
'Brian
[/quote]
KABC had MGPM, but KNBC and later KHJ had the strip. Source: TV Guide (the ones I think I bought from you on ebay, Brian) :)
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[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'209245\' date=\'Mar 1 2009, 03:37 PM\']
[quote name=\'GameShowFan\' post=\'209221\' date=\'Mar 1 2009, 12:35 PM\']
LA was always oddball. KCBS had Jeopardy! for the first six weeks, canceled it, and didn't get it back until WoF/J! moved to the CBS O&Os around 1989, when WoF moved to CBS (studio and network).
[/quote]
I gotta call shenanigans on that because J! has always aired on a non-CBS O&O in my area and Wheel moved from one in '89.
Unless I'm missing something.
[/quote]
I also get to stand corrected. 20 years on, memories get fuzzy.
'Brian
/Good grief, how old am I?
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[quote name=\'PaulD\' post=\'209134\' date=\'Feb 28 2009, 03:55 PM\']
[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'209090\' date=\'Feb 28 2009, 03:23 PM\']
I didn't realize the clearance for Pyramid was so poor.
[/quote]
Now the show not airing here in St. Louis does seem that unusual in hindsight.
[/quote]
I've noticed that in looking at old TV Guide & Newpaper TV listings most of the bigger markets carried the show pretty much all the way through. Also I do remember seeing a posting of a St. Louis newspaper TV listing on another website that had the show airing on KPLR 11 there. Interestingly though the situation in St. Louis with the $100K Pyramid seems similar to the situation in Seattle-Tacoma where I live; from what i've found out the show aired in 1986 and I think 87 on KING 5, in 1988 the show aired on KSTW 11. Besides what I mentioned the show didn't air in Seattle-Tacoma at all.
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Can someone explain the clearance issue to me? I thought you got the clearances first, then aired the show. I would have thought that a show with only 40% clearance wouldn't get aired, unless it was just all big cities with no small stations carrying it as the above poster mentioned. And why would a show appeal to the big markets, but not the smaller ones? Isn't that the reverse of how it usually goes?
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[quote name=\'CarShark\' post=\'209457\' date=\'Mar 3 2009, 09:13 PM\']
Can someone explain the clearance issue to me? I thought you got the clearances first, then aired the show. I would have thought that a show with only 40% clearance wouldn't get aired, unless it was just all big cities with no small stations carrying it as the above poster mentioned. And why would a show appeal to the big markets, but not the smaller ones? Isn't that the reverse of how it usually goes?
[/quote]
Back then, for the most part, stations would buy the shows for cash and keep all the advertising minutes.
Most, if not all, shows in syndication nowadays contain national spots for which the advertiser needs a certain percentage of the country in order to make it a go. There was much more diversity and product available in syndication back then.
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[quote name=\'TeppanYaki\' post=\'209144\' date=\'Feb 28 2009, 06:20 PM\']
[quote name=\'calliaume\' post=\'209100\' date=\'Feb 28 2009, 02:03 PM\']
I believe at that point, Wheel, Newlywed Game, and Hollywood Squares were cleared on the O&Os of CBS, NBC, and ABC, respectively, for their 7:30/6:30 PM time slots.
[/quote]
Except for good ol' Chicago, as Wheel was on WLS at 6:30, Newlywed was on WMAQ at 6:30 and Squares, IIRC, was on WPWR.
[/quote]
I seem to recall Squares airing at 11:00pm on WLS, after Nightline. I specifically remember staying up late one night to watch it. Before that, I think WLS also ran syndie $OTC in that slot, a least for a bit.
As for Rafferty CS, that didn't clear here in Chicago, did it? The only time I saw it during its original run was one of those days when the clouds aligned, and the stations from Milwaukee and Grand Rapids were coming in on the aerial. I remember wondering what was up with the different host and the prize cards.
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Back then, for the most part, stations would buy the shows for cash and keep all the advertising minutes.
Most, if not all, shows in syndication nowadays contain national spots for which the advertiser needs a certain percentage of the country in order to make it a go. There was much more diversity and product available in syndication back then.
I had wondered why I wasn’t fortunate enough to have the nighttime Celebrity Sweepstakes syndicated to my area in ’74-75. I think it was mentioned somewhere that the show was only on a handful of stations. It was stated on here a while back they were network O&Os (I think NBC’s) which covered a large enough percentage of the viewing audience to go ahead with production. Back then each network only owned five stations.
I’ve also heard conflicting reports on Wheel of Fortune. I always thought it started on about 40-odd stations in 1983, and increased significantly as the first year went on. Not that long ago I read (can’t remember where) that it started with only 6 stations – which I don’t think can be right.
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Celeb Sweeps was on the ABC O&O's for the 74-75 season (NYC, LA and Detroit, at least.) and the NBC O&O's for the 76-77. According to a Variety article in 75, there were fewer than twenty stations airing it in prime access.
I live in one of the markets where Wheel started early. WJRT in Flint started airing it on August 29, 1983. Technically, during the 82-83 season. (Sources: Back issues of TV Guide). It wasn't even cleared in NYC until mid-season 83-84.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'209480\' date=\'Mar 4 2009, 12:10 PM\']
I live in one of the markets where Wheel started early. WJRT in Flint started airing it on August 29, 1983.
[/quote]
Same story with Cleveland's WEWS-TV Channel 5. They ran a week of shows recorded at the Ohio State Fair during that week and the following Monday, WOF made its official syndicated premiere. It's been on at 7pm on that station since Day One. Likewise, the current incarnation of Jeopardy! has run at 7:30pm on TV-5 since its September 10th 1984 premiere.
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Interesting that shows back then could air without clearance in the top two markets (Norfolk also aired the show since 1983). There was supposed to be an LMAD revival c. 1999 that never came to fruition...one reason mentioned was lack of interest in the New York and L.A. markets...
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Buffalo actually started Wheel of Fortune on Aug 22, 1983; Rochester NY picked it up 2 weeks later and the episodes aired two weeks apart that whole first season. By the second season they were synched up, and also aired on a Toronto station starting in the second year.
Well...I think between us we've just named at least 6 stations that aired it in '83...so that thoery pretty well bites the dust. I guess the 40-odd startup station lineup is probably more accurate.
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'209486\' date=\'Mar 4 2009, 11:37 AM\']
Well...I think between us we've just named at least 6 stations that aired it in '83...so that thoery (sic) pretty well bites the dust. I guess the 40-odd startup station lineup is probably more accurate.
[/quote]
I can add KCST (now KNSD) San Diego to the list (I lived in the Spring Valley suburb at the time).
Coincidentally, San Diego was one of the only markets where Wheel would not have been a Feud-killer, since syndie Wheel was syndie Feud's lead-in (albeit with Love Connection, and later, Jeopardy! between them; in fall '83 though, they did run back-to-back with Joker as Wheel's lead-in).
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I can add KCST (now KNSD) San Diego to the list (I lived in the Spring Valley suburb at the time).
I know that Philadelphia had it right from '83, and I think that's the biggest city that picked it up from the beginning.
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In Chicago during the 1986-87 season $100,000 Pyramid didn't clear, although WPWR 50 picked it up for the 1987-88 season and WFLD 32 showed it briefly in the summer of 1986, Rafferty Card Sharks for some reason aired a year behind on WPWR in 1987-88. Also, Chance Of A Lifetime and Strike It Rich were shown on WGBO 66 for like two or three months from October to December 1986 from 9-10 am.
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'209658\' date=\'Mar 6 2009, 11:43 AM\']
I know that Philadelphia had it right from '83, and I think that's the biggest city that picked it up from the beginning.
[/quote]
The #1 market wasn't *too* far behind......WCBS began running it in January 1984. I remember watching the first episode they showed - In a pre-recorded message, Pat welcomed the WCBS viewers to Wheel of Fortune, and a jade pendant (marked "JADE" on the Wheel) was the prize.
I remember being kinda disappointed..Being 9 at the time and not knowing much about TV I figured it was going to be reruns of old Woolery eps...
Watching WoF could be a bit of a challenge at that point. Where I lived in (very) rural NY state, we had two of each affil from NYC and Scranton (with the exception of CBS, in which WBNG-12 was also on the cable too), and the NYC stations could be rather fuzzy at times, so when WNEP-16 added WoF in July/August '84, it was a sigh of relief...