The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: lobster on March 15, 2008, 12:59:48 AM
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(non spoiler, answer and results are not revealed :p)
today's show had probably the most dumbed-down $200-grade question for FJ I've ever seen..
Category: Food & Drink
"In 2001, a 5,861 gallon version of this drink was served up at a Jimmy Buffett-owned place in Orlando"
I mean.. ..seriously? What's with the pattern of way-obvious giveaway clues lately?
/It's getting harder and harder to be a showoff when FJ! is on in waiting rooms and other various public places :D
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What is Rum & Coke?
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[quote name=\'lobster\' post=\'181424\' date=\'Mar 14 2008, 09:59 PM\']I mean.. ..seriously? What's with the pattern of way-obvious giveaway clues lately?[/quote]It seems to be hot and cold. I'll get a week's worth of them without having to tease anything out, and then have a two-week dry spell. It seems rare that the Final is something that you have to puzzle out by joining two or three different pieces of information. I've either gotten it within the first few measures, or spend thirty seconds doing the armpit fart in time to the drums. That's just me, your M may very well V.
(But then, what do you do to get to 'what is a margarita?' other than the Buffett nod? Leave it out and it becomes a question of who recently thumbed through a Guinness book.)
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[quote name=\'gwarman2005\' post=\'181426\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 01:18 AM\']What is Rum & Coke?[/quote]
*Carnac rips open envelope*
Carnac: Name two things Amy Winehouse considers part of a healthy breakfast.
/this isn't the Carson thread? damn
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[quote name=\'MikeK\' post=\'181429\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 01:27 AM\']
[quote name=\'gwarman2005\' post=\'181426\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 01:18 AM\']What is Rum & Coke?[/quote]
*Carnac rips open envelope*
Carnac: Name two things Amy Winehouse considers part of a healthy breakfast.
/this isn't the Carson thread? damn
[/quote]
No, but I lol'd regardless.
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'181428\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 12:26 AM\']
(But then, what do you do to get to 'what is a margarita?' other than the Buffett nod? Leave it out and it becomes a question of who recently thumbed through a Guinness book.)
[/quote]
Yeah, the typical FJ formula then would shift focus over to the "Orlando" part of the clue, which then would imply something Disney-related if you didn't know the obscure factoid they were referring to... But also this week, there was a question about a quote concerning a writer being from Mississippi -- who else but Faulkner -- and even Alex noted the "key word being "a writer from Mississippi" .. (yeah, THANKS, alex :p)
The question they had yesterday about the two South American countries you would cross by heading due south from Miami is an example of the true oldschool FJ where there were no dopey obvious throwaway punchlines, you really did just have to rely on your knowledge and think it through.. Glad they didn't go with "This country that contains popular Quechua ruins is one of two crossed when heading south from Miami"..
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Boy, they were looking for "easier" FJ!s after a string of triple stumpers recently. Whenever there's a triple stumper, odds are the show's on a budget. In this case, this was clearly "giveway" mode(not just the clue, but the winnings these days). Don't be surprised if we see a triple stumper sometime next week.
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If you don't know Jimmy Buffett, you're not going to get it. What maybe easy for you may not be easy for others.
--Mike
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[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'181458\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 07:35 AM\'] If you don't know Jimmy Buffett, you're not going to get it. What maybe easy for you may not be easy for others. [/quote]
I'm the first to agree with the latter statement, but considering that Buffett has turned the "Margaritaville" name into a retail mini-empire encompassing a chain of restaurants, frozen foods, tequila, sandals(?!) and frozen drink makers, it really doesn't seem like an obscure reference originating from a pop song anymore.
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[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'181458\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 07:35 AM\']
If you don't know Jimmy Buffett, you're not going to get it. What maybe easy for you may not be easy for others.
[/quote]
That goes without saying, but come on, man, there is a slightly higher standard of knowledge (and yes, even in the area of slop culture) that is assumed everyone who qualifies for Jeopardy will know. if you can't link Jimmy Buffett with Margaritaville and yet you are on Jeopardy and have made it to the final, the contestant coords have let one slip through the crack. And this question in particular is not about "ease", it's about being anyone over the age of 20 that has a pulse. If you've lived in the western world and not in a cave for at least five years, there is absolutely no reason to not know the answer to that question, and the question writers know this. Guaranteed no one on the writing staff said "this might stump 'em!"
Using your logic, would you not be surprised if someone on Jeopardy missed a question like "This is the capital of the United States"?
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I've seen easier FJs, IMO. The one about the university (Florida) winning both football and basketball national championships was probably the easiest one. I don't worry about the writers' capabilities, though.
I didn't get the Jimmy Buffet one immediately either. I wasn't a contestant so I'm not getting worked up about it.
If you've lived in the western world and not in a cave for at least five years, there is absolutely no reason to not know the answer to that question, and the question writers know this. Guaranteed no one on the writing staff said "this might stump 'em!"
I'm not a music aficionado, sorry.
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[quote name=\'Craig Karlberg\' post=\'181441\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 04:09 AM\']
Boy, they were looking for "easier" FJ!s after a string of triple stumpers recently. Whenever there's a triple stumper, odds are the show's on a budget. In this case, this was clearly "giveway" mode(not just the clue, but the winnings these days). Don't be surprised if we see a triple stumper sometime next week.[/quote]
I'll take "Making Stuff Up" for a thousand, Alex.
Jeopardy material is prepared far in advance, games are packaged as a unit, and the decision about which one of a set of games to be played that day is made (blindly, I believe) by someone from Standards and Practices, not the show. Some Final Jeopardy clues are easier than others, some are harder. This one happened to be easier. There might very well be a Triple Stumper next week, but it won't be a conscious choice and it won't have anything to do with this softball.
Having said that...
[quote name=\'jalman\' post=\'181466\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 09:46 AM\']
I've seen easier FJs, IMO. The one about the university (Florida) winning both football and basketball national championships was probably the easiest one. I don't worry about the writers' capabilities, though.[/quote]
And somebody who doesn't follow collegiate sports would consider that a killer.
[quote name=\'jalman\' post=\'181466\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 09:46 AM\']
I didn't get the Jimmy Buffet one immediately either. I wasn't a contestant so I'm not getting worked up about it.
....
I'm not a music aficionado, sorry.[/quote]
Precisely. A Jimmy Buffet reference is certainly on the easier side of things, but not exactly a crime against the trivia gods.
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[quote name=\'lobster\' post=\'181465\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 08:36 AM\']
[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'181458\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 07:35 AM\']
If you don't know Jimmy Buffett, you're not going to get it. What maybe easy for you may not be easy for others.
[/quote]Using your logic, would you not be surprised if someone on Jeopardy missed a question like "This is the capital of the United States"?[/quote]Now you're being ridiculous.
If the clue had mentioned the "sandals, restaurants, etc" and not mentioned Jimmy, I wouldn't have known it either. And, had I not known a girl who turned me on to country music (and the bar scene) a couple of years ago, I wouldn't have known that[/i].
But I can name any state capital, even if intoxicated. I guess by your logic, however, since I wouldn't have known a pop song, wouldn't have deserved to be on Jeopardy either?
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'181471\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 10:13 AM\']
[quote name=\'jalman\' post=\'181466\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 09:46 AM\']
I've seen easier FJs, IMO. The one about the university (Florida) winning both football and basketball national championships was probably the easiest one. I don't worry about the writers' capabilities, though.[/quote]
And somebody who doesn't follow collegiate sports would consider that a killer.
[/quote]
Absolutely true. (I hope my "IMO" was a sufficient preface) I saw the FJ that night but didn't feel the need to rail against the J! writers for "going soft." I won't hold not knowing that bit of trivia against the contestants (whoever they were), either.
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[quote name=\'jalman\' post=\'181466\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 08:46 AM\']
I've seen easier FJs, IMO. The one about the university (Florida) winning both football and basketball national championships was probably the easiest one. I don't worry about the writers' capabilities, though.[/quote]
See, I wouldn't have gotten it in a million years. If college sports was stated as the category, my wager would have been an automatic $0.
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[quote name=\'jalman\' post=\'181466\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 08:46 AM\']
I didn't get the Jimmy Buffet one immediately either. I wasn't a contestant so I'm not getting worked up about it.
[/quote]
no one's getting worked up, chief.. I was just surprised at the tremendous giveaway embedded in the clue.
If you've lived in the western world and not in a cave for at least five years, there is absolutely no reason to not know the answer to that question, and the question writers know this. Guaranteed no one on the writing staff said "this might stump 'em!"
I'm not a music aficionado, sorry.
not too much of a fan of that type of music myself, but I had just chalked that bit of trivia up to more or less the level of "This is the artist that sang Thriller".. I suppose I stand corrected .. maybe Buffet is more obscure than I thought..
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[quote name=\'lobster\' post=\'181424\' date=\'Mar 14 2008, 11:59 PM\']
Category: Food & Drink
"In 2001, a 5,861 gallon version of this drink was served up at a Jimmy Buffett-owned place in Orlando"
I mean.. ..seriously? What's with the pattern of way-obvious giveaway clues lately?
[/quote]
As synonymous as Jimmy Buffett is with that drink, it wasn't a giveaway, since you'd have to know Jimmy Buffett. "A 5,681-gallon version of this tequila and lime drink was served up at a Jimmy Buffett-owned bar" would be a giveaway.
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[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'181472\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 09:18 AM\']
[quote name=\'lobster\' post=\'181465\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 08:36 AM\']
Using your logic, would you not be surprised if someone on Jeopardy missed a question like "This is the capital of the United States"?[/quote]
Now you're being ridiculous.
...
But I can name any state capital, even if intoxicated. I guess by your logic, however, since I wouldn't have known a pop song, wouldn't have deserved to be on Jeopardy either?
[/quote]
Eh, ok.. fair enough.. I guess what I was saying was, no matter what topics you know and don't know, there are still some understood basics in all categories that you would expect your typical Jeopardy contestant to know off the bat.. And this one in particular seemed more like a $200 question than an FJ-grade question. Tha's all.. :D
I don't know crap about baseball, but I can maybe answer a few basic Qs about Babe Ruth just because certain trivial facts about him have been unavoidable while living in the United States all these years later..
/opera, however, is another story..
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I think an unwritten rule of thumb should be that FJ! questions shouldn't be guessable by 80% of the populace.. That's a good threshold :D The FJ question is the pinnacle of the show.. there has to be some sort of standard the writers adhere to when crafting up that one question over all of the others used on the show.. ...right? :p
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[quote name=\'lobster\' post=\'181465\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 09:36 AM\']
And this question in particular is not about "ease", it's about being anyone over the age of 20 that has a pulse. If you've lived in the western world and not in a cave for at least five years, there is absolutely no reason to not know the answer to that question, and the question writers know this.
[/quote]
I know at least two people with significant trivia knowledge who did not get the right answer when asked. A common fallacy of any question writer is to consider anything they know too easy, and anything they do not know too hard. Millionaire had this problem in the past with science questions.
I have played way too much quiz bowl, and this comes up all of the time. One team will be flabbergasted that their opposition with the bonus can't reel off the second penalty killing unit of the Vancouver Canucks, yet the flabbergasted team can't name a single American Idol contestant.
--Mike
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[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'181515\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 02:53 PM\']
[quote name=\'lobster\' post=\'181465\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 09:36 AM\']
And this question in particular is not about "ease", it's about being anyone over the age of 20 that has a pulse. If you've lived in the western world and not in a cave for at least five years, there is absolutely no reason to not know the answer to that question, and the question writers know this.
[/quote]
I know at least two people with significant trivia knowledge who did not get the right answer when asked. A common fallacy of any question writer is to consider anything they know too easy, and anything they do not know too hard. Millionaire had this problem in the past with science questions.
[/quote]
good point, indeed..
but also a good question writer should be able to measure what will be deemed too easy or too hard by contestants as a whole no matter the writers' knowledge themselves.
I know very little trivia about British Royalty, for example, but if I were to have to come up with a final-jeopardy-grade question on that topic, I would know what questions would likely be a gimmie to anyone who's even briskly studied it even though I, myself, am not knowledgeable in that area. I wouldn't ask the contestants to name the two children of Prince Charles for example. So you don't have to subscribe to Rolling Stone to know that Jimmy Buffett question should have been a gimmie for most people.
And I am not trying to take aim at people here on the forum that didn't know the answer to the Buffett question, you guys have raised some fine points about other topics I do not know anything about -- but again, we're talking about FJ, and I hold that question-writing to a higher standard no matter the topic and no matter the writers' personal knowledge of the topic... shrug..
Certainly we can't expect J! question writers to be formally schooled in every topic on the planet, but when they want to mix up the bag and have a FOOD & DRINK FJ on this occasion, they honestly could have come up with a better question more fitting for FJ, is all I'm really saying ..
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[quote name=\'lobster\' post=\'181528\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 04:27 PM\']but also a good question writer should be able to measure what will be deemed too easy or too hard by contestants as a whole no matter the writers' knowledge themselves. [/quote]
I think that's the point we're trying to make TO you. More specifically, that the Jimmy Buffett clue was, yes, an easy one as FJ questions go, probably easier than most, but it was not the preposterous, laughable, "ridiculous" clue that you're making it out to be. You're taking your knowledge of the subject and assuming that it's a much more common piece of information than it actually is. ("Anyone over the age of 20 that has a pulse.")
Over on Sony's Jeopardy board, one of the more fascinating things that goes on is a weekly survey of Final Jeopardy difficulty. Each week, about 60 fans of the show indicate which ones they can (or did) answer correctly. The result is an unscientific but interesting gauge of difficulty level. This week's list hasn't been posted yet, but when it does, I have no doubt that the Buffett clue will be among the easiest for the week, maybe even for the season, and that there will be several very smart people out of that group who will miss it.
As I've said before, the number of members here who have written trivia questions professionally is small (best as I can tell, three have responded in this thread). Those that do know full well how hard it is to get the balance exactly right, and that not every question is going to be a gem. This one certainly wasn't a gem, it just wasn't the turd you're making it out to be.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'181533\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 04:14 PM\']
This one certainly wasn't a gem, it just wasn't the turd you're making it out to be.
[/quote]
i really can't think of any worse turds FJ has dropped in a good long while.. the misleading topic of "Food and Drink" makes this even more of a turd -- if you happen to be a culinary master (and you wager based on knowledge of the cat) and get this question that really doesn't have anything to do with knowledge of food & drink (and you also happen to be of those who don't know the answer), the bad category setup for the question makes it most turdworthy. Just an opinion :d
i guess if there ever was a FJ question you would consider a true turd, there will always be someone out there insisting it was hard as crap (*rimshot*)... and this I agree with. I just "expected more" from the almighty FJ question that I had always assumed was designed to be most difficult in the entire game.
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[quote name=\'lobster\' post=\'181564\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 04:14 PM\'](and you wager based on knowledge of the cat) and get this question that really doesn't have anything to do with knowledge of food & drink [/quote] Except people aren't betting based on the category: they're betting based on their relative position in the game. And if you lead 20,000-7,000-3,000 and blow your wad because you thought the proper response might be "what is Gorgonzola?", well, you get what you deserve.
I just "expected more" from the almighty FJ question that I had always assumed was designed to be most difficult in the entire game.
Just because you expect something doesn't make it so.
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'181565\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 06:30 PM\']
[quote name=\'lobster\' post=\'181564\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 04:14 PM\']
I just "expected more" from the almighty FJ question that I had always assumed was designed to be most difficult in the entire game.[/quote]
Just because you expect something doesn't make it so.
[/quote]
Apparently not, hence the bad FJ clue. :p
just like opinions, we are entitled to our own expectations.. and so i guess my flaw that is being pointed out here is that i erroneously hold FJ questions to a higher standard than I should.. guilty as charged
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[quote name=\'lobster\' post=\'181569\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 05:36 PM\']just like opinions, we are entitled to our own expectations.. and so i guess my flaw that is being pointed out here is that i erroneously hold FJ questions to a higher standard than I should.. guilty as charged[/quote]There is a standard to them, just like Daily Doubles: they ought to be more thought-provoking than normal clues. But sometimes they're lay-ups, and you chalk it up.
/really liked the "Due South from Miami" clue from last week.
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[quote name=\'lobster\' post=\'181569\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 08:36 PM\']just like opinions, we are entitled to our own expectations.. and so i guess my flaw that is being pointed out here is that i erroneously hold FJ questions to a higher standard than I should.. guilty as charged[/quote]
No, your flaw -- in this case at least -- is twisting the arguments of others into something nobody said in an effort to try and make the rest of us look bad, all couched in what might otherwise be mistaken for an actual understanding of how you're wrong here.
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[quote name=\'lobster\' post=\'181510\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 02:31 PM\']
I think an unwritten rule of thumb should be that FJ! questions shouldn't be guessable by 80% of the populace.. That's a good threshold :D The FJ question is the pinnacle of the show.. there has to be some sort of standard the writers adhere to when crafting up that one question over all of the others used on the show.. ...right? :p
[/quote]
Wrong. Final Jeopardy is an outdated relic from the Art Fleming days, and has no legitimate place on the modern show.
It matters very little how hard the clue is.
(For what it's worth, I pretty much agree with you. This clue was about as hard as the Faulkner one from the day before. They were both "easier", statistically speaking, than the "due south from Miami" clue on Wednesday, I'd wager. But everyone's got gaps in their knowledge. That's why they've got 13 categories per day.)
-M
edited to add:
... the misleading topic of "Food and Drink" makes this even more of a turd...
Here I emphatically agree with you.
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[quote name=\'MyronMMeyer\' post=\'181582\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 06:54 PM\']
Wrong. Final Jeopardy is an outdated relic from the Art Fleming days, and has no legitimate place on the modern show.[/quote]
Huh?
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'181579\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 08:35 PM\']
[quote name=\'lobster\' post=\'181569\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 08:36 PM\']just like opinions, we are entitled to our own expectations.. and so i guess my flaw that is being pointed out here is that i erroneously hold FJ questions to a higher standard than I should.. guilty as charged[/quote]
No, your flaw -- in this case at least -- is twisting the arguments of others into something nobody said in an effort to try and make the rest of us look bad, all couched in what might otherwise be mistaken for an actual understanding of how you're wrong here.
[/quote]
Matt, you know I have a great amount of respect for you, but that is quite an unfair accusation .. I think you're somehow reading sarcasm out of my response when there was none. There was no argument-twisting, and there's certainly no agenda to make anyone look bad; it was a sincere admission and simply my response to TLEberle saying "Just because you expect something doesn't make it so." Point taken, I shouldn't have such expectations about Final Jeopardy as I had, for which the end result is what you quoted. In my opinion, that is a pretty diplomatic response to his statement, what was wrong with that?
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'181571\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 07:40 PM\']
[quote name=\'lobster\' post=\'181569\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 05:36 PM\']just like opinions, we are entitled to our own expectations.. and so i guess my flaw that is being pointed out here is that i erroneously hold FJ questions to a higher standard than I should.. guilty as charged[/quote]There is a standard to them, just like Daily Doubles: they ought to be more thought-provoking than normal clues. But sometimes they're lay-ups, and you chalk it up.
[/quote]
true enough.. I suppose out of the thousands of shows it would be a challenge to write for that balance every single time.
/really liked the "Due South from Miami" clue from last week.
I enjoyed that one too, as that was the classic FJ-style thought provoking I enjoy about the finale. You have thirty seconds and you just have to let your brain battle it out and try not to second guess yourself -- and that was an awesome clue for that. If the game is all going to come down to who's right or wrong on a question, I have always felt if it's a challenging question the suspense and reveal is good television.
btw, I got it wrong guessing Chile. As Alex pointed out as a common mistake, I myself always picture South America in my mind to be more directly below the US as opposed to shifted that far to the east.. whoops :p .. did you guess correctly?
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"I guess my flaw is" + "guilty as charged" = pegging out the Sarcasmometer. I'm having a hard time thinking of a phrasing that could've made it sound more sarcastic.
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[quote name=\'MyronMMeyer\' post=\'181582\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 08:54 PM\']
Wrong. Final Jeopardy is an outdated relic from the Art Fleming days, and has no legitimate place on the modern show.
[/quote]
While I appreciate that you agree with my stance of the turd-idity of the Buffett question in question, Final Jeopardy is really the best part of the show and has to go down in history as one of the most revered and legendary bonus rounds in all of game shows. (The think music alone is known universally even amongst non-game show fans!), but it holds a very relevant position in the game -- all the daily double wagering and category/amount picking strategies all lead up to positioning yourself for Final Jeopardy. If the game simply ended at the end of Double Jeopardy, the game would almost always be an anti-climactic finish.
Last week alone, I believe three times the person in third place ended up coming from behind and winning thanks to FJ. As long as there's not a runaway, the suspense is built until the final answer is revealed. It's a great end to the show.
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[quote name=\'lobster\' post=\'181599\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 08:33 PM\']If the game simply ended at the end of Double Jeopardy, the game would almost always be an anti-climactic finish. [/quote]I think it would suffer a bit (anyone who watched the 1978 version can attest to that), but it would make late DDs and category sweeps all the more important. The removal of FJ wouldn't negate the earlier parts, it would make them more intense, since the finish line is placed differently.
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[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' post=\'181597\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 10:27 PM\']
"I guess my flaw is" + "guilty as charged" = pegging out the Sarcasmometer. I'm having a hard time thinking of a phrasing that could've made it sound more sarcastic.
[/quote]
..and therein lies the limits of textual conversation. Unless you pepper your conversation with gratuitous emoticons to illustrate every tone intended to be had, someone will always take a well-intended statement the wrong way, just as someone will whoosh and take a sarcastically-intended statement as complimentary... It happens daily on this very forum and everywhere else.
If my intentions were to be rude and sarcastic, I assure you the statement would be worded altogether differently. I had no reason to go that route, as I was conceding to TLEberle's point, and I respect what he had to say on the matter. I'm not on trial, here -- If I say my statement wasn't meant to be taken sarcastically and for some reason you have a hard time believing it, all I can say is simply that you're just going to have to take my word for it.
/:D
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All right, fine. It is entirely possible to sarcastically concede a point, when one's intention is to try to exaggerate what they perceive as an unreasonable opposition to their argument. And just because there are sometimes issues with conveying certain things with text doesn't mean that it is therefore impossible for certain words and phrases to strongly suggest certain things.
I do find it amusing that there's any perception of me putting you on trial, though. I was explaining the part of your message that struck me as very strongly sarcastic, no more, no less. There was no "Aha! Now you must confess your lies!" anywhere in my response.
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[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' post=\'181605\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 11:00 PM\']
I do find it amusing that there's any perception of me putting you on trial, though. I was explaining the part of your message that struck me as very strongly sarcastic, no more, no less. There was no "Aha! Now you must confess your lies!" anywhere in my response.
[/quote]
..the perception comes from me clearly stating I wasn't being sarcastic and you responding by saying "I'm having a hard time thinking of a phrasing that could've made it sound more sarcastic." ... welllll.. if that doesn't have overtones of an accusation, or at least a call for me to explain myself further, I don't know what to tell you.
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[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' post=\'181605\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 11:00 PM\']
All right, fine. It is entirely possible to sarcastically concede a point, when one's intention is to try to exaggerate what they perceive as an unreasonable opposition to their argument. And just because there are sometimes issues with conveying certain things with text doesn't mean that it is therefore impossible for certain words and phrases to strongly suggest certain things.
[/quote]
agreed, that is entirely possible, but it's not the case here. people, myself included, say sarcastic things all the time to prove their point. but your assumption here that my statement was not sincere is entirely your perception until you get confirmation from the source itself. since I am the source, and I am telling you straight up what my intentions were, frankly, there really is no reason not to believe it. I don't have anything at stake here to lie about this.. this is silly.
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[quote name=\'lobster\' post=\'181593\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 10:18 PM\']
Matt, you know I have a great amount of respect for you...
[/quote]
Welcome to the I Have Respect for Matt (or is it Chris?) Ottinger Fan Club. The t-shirts cost $12.95 so let me know what your size in and I'll get it ordered.
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[quote name=\'lobster\' post=\'181607\' date=\'Mar 16 2008, 12:07 AM\']..the perception comes from me clearly stating I wasn't being sarcastic and you responding by saying "I'm having a hard time thinking of a phrasing that could've made it sound more sarcastic." ... welllll.. if that doesn't have overtones of an accusation, or at least a call for me to explain myself further, I don't know what to tell you.[/quote]
I was responding to your disbelief that it could be read as sarcastic. I felt it obviously could be. I said so.
But, you know, holy crap am I done talking about this.
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[quote name=\'lobster\' post=\'181599\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 10:33 PM\']
While I appreciate that you agree with my stance of the turd-idity of the Buffett question in question, Final Jeopardy is really the best part of the show and has to go down in history as one of the most revered and legendary bonus rounds in all of game shows. (The think music alone is known universally even amongst non-game show fans!), but it holds a very relevant position in the game -- all the daily double wagering and category/amount picking strategies all lead up to positioning yourself for Final Jeopardy. If the game simply ended at the end of Double Jeopardy, the game would almost always be an anti-climactic finish.
Last week alone, I believe three times the person in third place ended up coming from behind and winning thanks to FJ. As long as there's not a runaway, the suspense is built until the final answer is revealed. It's a great end to the show. [/quote]
I agree with most of that, but with all the puppies yapping in this thread, I can't resist a brief howl...
It isn't a bonus round, it's the climax of the regular game, as you said. A bonus round is usually one contestant (or one team) playing against the house for bigger money. Final J is still part of the main game, just like the final round in Split Second, and so on. The big pyramid is a bonus round, by contrast. End of rant. (goes back in the corner to my blanket and bottle)
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[quote name=\'lobster\' post=\'181599\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 10:33 PM\']
[quote name=\'MyronMMeyer\' post=\'181582\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 08:54 PM\']
Wrong. Final Jeopardy is an outdated relic from the Art Fleming days, and has no legitimate place on the modern show.
[/quote]
While I appreciate that you agree with my stance of the turd-idity of the Buffett question in question, Final Jeopardy is really the best part of the show and has to go down in history as one of the most revered and legendary bonus rounds in all of game shows.
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I disagree. You know how sometimes on "Crosswords" a player will answer one clue, right at the end, and end up taking the podium and the win from someone who's been dominating the game otherwise? People complain, right? Call it a "flaw".
Then why is it, when a player dominates on Jeopardy, but then ends up in 3rd place because he couldn't work out the correct response to 1 clue at the very end, that's "excitement"? That's also a "flaw", if we want the winner at the end to be the best player throughout the game. And I do.
I mentioned the Art Fleming version, and the dynamic there was different. AF Jeopardy was a quiz game with a gambling element. Everyone kept their money at the end. The Final Jeopardy "wager" was a true wager. How much money do you want to bet on a clue about, say, Rivers? Then whoever had the most money got to play tomorrow, but everyone got some cash (unless they gambled it away). Final Jeopardy made some sense, because it was literally the final "jeopardy" that people placed in a quiz that was littered with them.
In the Trebek version, FJ is the game. The first 2 rounds are just jockeying for position. That's why we can have all this dreary talk about wagering situations (which I hate), rather than discussion about clue difficulty and appropriateness (which I find much more interesting).
I'll go even further. The short-lived Art Fleming revival was the best setup of all three versions, in terms of rewarding the best player with the win. Yes, the Super Jeopardy bonus round was kind of slow paced (judging from the 2 episodes anyone was seen recently, anyway). But getting rid of the trailing contestant after the J! round meant that is was less likely a player could just dominate. Playing mano-a-mano makes for a more exciting, and I'd say "fairer" quiz.
No, I wouldn't say Final Jeopardy is "one of the most revered and legendary bonus rounds in all of game shows", the cultural ubiquitousness of the "Think Music" not withstanding. It's a relic. But the semi-annualy "What do you think is the best bonus round ever?" thread isn't scheduled until May, so I can't be sure.
-M
Extra quotation marks, in case I forgot any ----> """""""