The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: lobster on March 09, 2008, 01:52:27 AM
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on the latest MDS in the Showcase one of the prizes was a trip for two to Las Vegas (for SIX freakin' nights), but the sponsor was "Vegas.com" and there was no mention of the hotel..
This isn't the same as featuring an unbranded no-name refrigerator; if the contestant was actually trying to price this out in their head, knowing the hotel is a significant part of the cost in a trip to Vegas, as it makes a huge difference where yer stayin'... If it were six nights at Circus Circus that'd be worth about $270, and if it were six nights at the Wynn Las Vegas it'd be worth about $3000.. And although people probably concern themselves with the ARP of the last/biggest prize in the showcase to estimate their bid, we're talking about a million bucks for coming in by a whole thousand, so every bit you can estimate helps if you really want to try to take an educated stab at it..
"Six nights in Vegas" just seemed to be tremendously vague under the circumstances..
If the contestant were to have asked Rich "What hotel is that?" would he just say "we're just not given that information, sorry.."?
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That sort of thing has happened before. Contestants will ask for information on the small prizes, and Rich will just repeat the generic plug he was given.
Another example that doesn't seem to phase people is the lack of package size in a grocery item's description. Obviously, the contestants can walk up to the item and see for themselves, but it has a lot to do with the price, and it's not in the description. Same thing goes for computers; I'm certain something that would make the price different to an avid computer shopper isn't mentioned in the copy 99% of the time.
Obviously, the show cares more about the plug than the specifics required to play the game. And rightfully so, I might add.
-Jason
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Think of how exhaustively detailed Don Pardo's prize descriptions were on the original "Price". He could take up to a minute and a half to give all pertinent details of a prize.
Rich Fields is lucky if he's given 15 seconds to do the same. There's simply not enough time in the format to allow that, generic prizes or no.
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[quote name=\'davemackey\' post=\'180606\' date=\'Mar 9 2008, 05:33 AM\']
Rich Fields is lucky if he's given 15 seconds to do the same. There's simply not enough time in the format to allow that, generic prizes or no.
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..how much longer would it have taken him to add "..at the Las Vegas Flamingo" to "a six night stay"? I'm not saying he should go into detail about the fabulous gaming facilities and 24 hour steakhouse, just the freakin name of the hotel.. Again, this comes down to being able to price the prize, and that's just not possible to do if you're not given the essential key in this prize, which really is the hotel. I'm just saying -- how do they expect you to estimate the price?
Certainly just saying "a new car!" without giving the make and model to save time wouldn't make much sense.. how is it different with smaller prizes?
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[quote name=\'lobster\' post=\'180618\' date=\'Mar 9 2008, 12:14 PM\']Certainly just saying "a new car!" without giving the make and model to save time wouldn't make much sense.. how is it different with smaller prizes?[/quote]
Why give unsponsored items free time? That's why they dropped the brand names from unpaid grocery plugs a few years back. They don't do it with cars, assumedly, because it'd be ridiculous to dance around what make and model it is when it's readily verifiable by eye. But giving GE a free plug to describe a cordless phone isn't necessary. If the hotel didn't furnish the prize - no plug.
-Jason
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But they give the unsponsored items face time, so the manufacturer gets free advertising anyway.
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If I were a contestant on TPIR and my showcase had a trip from "NWA vacations", my thought would be to price a "packaged trip or tour from an agency" as opposed to separating the airfare, hotels, meals, etc. It would be the same thought behind a generic computer prize from "Best Buy"; you would guess what BB would sell the computer for instead of the MSRP.
And, about the grocery items, Jay Stewart on LMAD always said "This is a 28 ounce jar of Ragu" during pricing deals. He would always mention the size of an item, while TPIR rarely did in the past and never seems to do now.
And lastly, on 3-7-08 TPIR MDS, how did the producers feel about Drew calling the loss on "It's In The Bag" as "the oxi-Clean incident" when they didn't pay for a plug! Must have LOVED that!
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[quote name=\'joker316\' post=\'180627\' date=\'Mar 9 2008, 01:47 PM\']
If I were a contestant on TPIR and my showcase had a trip from "NWA vacations", my thought would be to price a "packaged trip or tour from an agency" as opposed to separating the airfare, hotels, meals, etc. It would be the same thought behind a generic computer prize from "Best Buy"; you would guess what BB would sell the computer for instead of the MSRP.[/quote]
I don't think you see the point. If, to use your example, they offered a generic computer prize from BestBuy, your problem is that there are many, many different computers that BestBuy sells. Is it an e-Machine from BestBuy, or is it a Sony Vaio from BestBuy? There's a thousand dollar difference in the two. I'm sure vacation packagers offer a variety of packages at a variety of prices. Which one do they mean?
You would also be wrong to try and guess what BestBuy is selling the computer for, as opposed to the MSRP. Even when they go generic, TPIR always uses the MSRP.
The question is whether you think of TPIR as a 'serious' (there's a better word, I'm sure) game that tests pricing skills, or as a fun guessing game with a handful of strategies but no real expectation that contestants actually know the right answers.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'180628\' date=\'Mar 9 2008, 11:00 AM\']
You would also be wrong to try and guess what BestBuy is selling the computer for, as opposed to the MSRP. Even when they go generic, TPIR always uses the MSRP.[/quote]
Hell, a lot of the time, Best Buy doesn't know what Best Buy is selling the computer for. (http://\"http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20070302/171131.shtml\")
The question is whether you think of TPIR as a 'serious' (there's a better word, I'm sure) game that tests pricing skills, or as a fun guessing game with a handful of strategies but no real expectation that contestants actually know the right answers.
There is an easy and short flowchart that can be used to determine what side of the fence many users come down on about this issue. I'll leave figuring out what that flowchart looks like as an exercise to the reader.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'180628\' date=\'Mar 9 2008, 02:00 PM\']
The question is whether you think of TPIR as a 'serious' (there's a better word, I'm sure) game that tests pricing skills, or as a fun guessing game with a handful of strategies but no real expectation that contestants actually know the right answers.
[/quote]
Maybe I am jaded, and I do see your point Matt, but I always thought there was some element of "seriousness" mixed in with the fun guessing game aspect. And God only knows where I will fall on Chris' flowchart.
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[quote name=\'joker316\' post=\'180635\' date=\'Mar 9 2008, 12:42 PM\']
Maybe I am jaded, and I do see your point Matt, but I always thought there was some element of "seriousness" mixed in with the fun guessing game aspect. And God only knows where I will fall on Chris' flowchart.
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There definitely was in the 60s. There was to a decent extent in the 70s and early 80s. As for now, almost all seriousness is gone and has been replaced with circus antics.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'180628\' date=\'Mar 9 2008, 01:00 PM\']
The question is whether you think of TPIR as a 'serious' (there's a better word, I'm sure) game that tests pricing skills, or as a fun guessing game with a handful of strategies but no real expectation that contestants actually know the right answers.
[/quote]
Exactly -- and normally I don't think most contestants take TPiR that seriously, nor should they -- since I think contestants normally just strive to bid well enough to *win* and, hell, if they hack the double showcase by chance, more power to 'em -- but that's for any normal daytime TPiR ep. The difference here is, here we have an instance where a MILLION BUCKS is on the line, so if the contestant truly is excited about that prospect and they want to try to win the million dollars, knowing more detail about the prizes to try to zone in on that thousand-dollar range is essential .. and trying to price the showcase well (if you have some level of knowledge in pricing values of prizes) is made virtually impossible with such vague descriptions.. rendering it more of a "guess" than an "educated guess"
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My favorite item given away on Cullen TPIR was "The Thinker." That may have required a guess of some sort, since there weren't that many of them.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'180647\' date=\'Mar 9 2008, 04:39 PM\']My favorite item given away on Cullen TPIR was "The Thinker." That may have required a guess of some sort, since there weren't that many of them.[/quote]
Some days, there aren't that many on the current version, either. :-)
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'180631\' date=\'Mar 9 2008, 11:35 AM\']There is an easy and short flowchart that can be used to determine what side of the fence many users come down on about this issue. I'll leave figuring out what that flowchart looks like as an exercise to the reader.[/quote]But Jeopardy! couldn't get away with an ambiguous clue, nor Wheel of Fortune a misspelling in their puzzle. Why should TPIR be any different?
A contestant going on Jeopardy! or Millionaire might try to expand his or her knowledge base by studying encyclopedias or magazines. A prospective TPIR contestant might spend a few days shopping around Los Angeles before bivouacking at Beverly and Fairfax. There's no difference between the two.
The show may want to look at itself as a carnival of fun, with all that description entails, but they're still playing a game at the end of the day. They shouldn't be able to leave out options on a car, which hotel they'll use as part of a trip package, or brand names when there's a disparity within that particular piece of merchandise. If that means they have to give a plug to a company that didn't pay for it, T.S.
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It's impossible to bid the airfare, let alone the hotel. What time on what day of the week are you leaving? How many stops? Ideally, they would use trips only on games such as Grocery Game and Bonus Game, where the price of the big prize doesn't come into play. But, hell, it's a guessing game, so what are you going to do.
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'180695\' date=\'Mar 9 2008, 06:35 PM\']
The show may want to look at itself as a carnival of fun, with all that description entails, but they're still playing a game at the end of the day. They shouldn't be able to leave out options on a car, which hotel they'll use as part of a trip package, or brand names when there's a disparity within that particular piece of merchandise. If that means they have to give a plug to a company that didn't pay for it, T.S.
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exactly.. and when you have a million bucks on the line it makes that guideline seem much more imperative.. it goes from "silly old guessing game" to "serious let-me-think-about-this-for-a-minute i-might-win- a-million-dollars".. Plus, TPiR is a full hour, are they really able to use the "we don't have time for such details!" excuse?
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Vegas.com is a Las Vegas vacation web site that books packages for Las Vegas trips. If I were the contestant, I would put this in the same category as NWA and Southwest packages and try to figure out the package price--if I could.
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[quote name=\'uncamark\' post=\'180734\' date=\'Mar 10 2008, 11:07 AM\']
Vegas.com is a Las Vegas vacation web site that books packages for Las Vegas trips. If I were the contestant, I would put this in the same category as NWA and Southwest packages and try to figure out the package price--if I could.
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Thank you uncamark! That was part of my original point. BTW does anyone remember the outfit known as "Club Universe"? I know they were on NTT, but I think they may have given trips on TPIR in the early Barker era. The same principle pricingwise applies.
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[quote name=\'joker316\' post=\'180736\' date=\'Mar 10 2008, 11:17 AM\']
[quote name=\'uncamark\' post=\'180734\' date=\'Mar 10 2008, 11:07 AM\']
Vegas.com is a Las Vegas vacation web site that books packages for Las Vegas trips. If I were the contestant, I would put this in the same category as NWA and Southwest packages and try to figure out the package price--if I could.
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Thank you uncamark! That was part of my original point. BTW does anyone remember the outfit known as "Club Universe"? I know they were on NTT, but I think they may have given trips on TPIR in the early Barker era. The same principle pricingwise applies.
[/quote]
They were all over game shows in the 80s. You couldn't miss them.
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[quote name=\'uncamark\' post=\'180734\' date=\'Mar 10 2008, 11:07 AM\']
Vegas.com is a Las Vegas vacation web site that books packages for Las Vegas trips. If I were the contestant, I would put this in the same category as NWA and Southwest packages and try to figure out the package price--if I could.
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Still impossible to price even if you've used the site itself :) .. Vegas.com can arrange for you a six night stay in a downtown s**theap or a six night stay in a four-room suite at the Four Seasons... low end total = $200, high end total = $6000 ..
I think Neumms is correct in that they should save the vague prizes like this for games that don't involve guessing the price of the prize..
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Overall, the core complaint seemed to be with the MDS and the stakes involved. It's akin to arguing Greed shouldn't have asked contestants to name recognizable smells instead of a more fact-based question when big money was on the line. It's their show, and they can do what they want. And, somebody else's budget.
-Jason
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[quote name=\'JasonA1\' post=\'180749\' date=\'Mar 10 2008, 02:07 PM\']
Overall, the core complaint seemed to be with the MDS and the stakes involved. It's akin to arguing Greed shouldn't have asked contestants to name recognizable smells instead of a more fact-based question when big money was on the line. It's their show, and they can do what they want. And, somebody else's budget.[/quote]
Though I don't stay up nights worring about the 'fairness' of TPIR, I strongly disagree with this. The Greed questions were obscure but they were not vague. They were -- to use a quiz bowl term -- "pinned." The source for the question was always given ("According to the Nose Institute...") and that made them factual, if infuriatingly obscure.
With the vacation example from TPIR that we're using, the information that they provide is simply not sufficient enough for there to be one "right" answer. You could be the greatest fan of Vegas.com the world has ever known and you wouldn't be able to accurately price the item because you just don't know what, specifically, the item is. Again, if you consider TPIR to be a test of skill, this is a problem.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'180754\' date=\'Mar 10 2008, 01:37 PM\']
With the vacation example from TPIR that we're using, the information that they provide is simply not sufficient enough for there to be one "right" answer. You could be the greatest fan of Vegas.com the world has ever known and you wouldn't be able to accurately price the item because you just don't know what, specifically, the item is. Again, if you consider TPIR to be a test of skill, this is a problem.
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That's what makes the show--sure it's mostly guessing and luck, but there's at least the illusion of skill. That's what raises it a notch above "Let's Make a Deal." Not pinning it wrecks the illusion.
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[quote name=\'Neumms\' post=\'180887\' date=\'Mar 11 2008, 12:48 PM\']
[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'180754\' date=\'Mar 10 2008, 01:37 PM\']
With the vacation example from TPIR that we're using, the information that they provide is simply not sufficient enough for there to be one "right" answer. You could be the greatest fan of Vegas.com the world has ever known and you wouldn't be able to accurately price the item because you just don't know what, specifically, the item is. Again, if you consider TPIR to be a test of skill, this is a problem.
[/quote]
That's what makes the show--sure it's mostly guessing and luck, but there's at least the illusion of skill. That's what raises it a notch above "Let's Make a Deal." Not pinning it wrecks the illusion.
[/quote]
Wouldn't the pinning be, as far as they're concerned, "All prices are the manufacturers' or suppliers' suggested retail prices unless otherwise announced?"
I'm sure if someone ever challenged out of the studio during taping, Roger or a staffer would pull the prize up on the database and present the evidence.
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[quote name=\'uncamark\' post=\'180935\' date=\'Mar 11 2008, 05:32 PM\']Wouldn't the pinning be, as far as they're concerned, "All prices are the manufacturers' or suppliers' suggested retail prices unless otherwise announced?"[/quote]
Let me try this another way.
Your Final Jeopardy clue is: "According to Information Please, this president was left-handed."
You say: "Who is Herbert Hoover?"
Alex says: "No, I'm sorry. The correct respose is, 'Who is Ronald Reagan?' "
You say: "But Hoover was a leftie too!"
They say: "Our source says that Reagan was left-handed. Therefore we are right."
Your brain explodes.
In other words, sourcing an item is one thing and pinning it is another.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'180938\' date=\'Mar 11 2008, 04:46 PM\']
[quote name=\'uncamark\' post=\'180935\' date=\'Mar 11 2008, 05:32 PM\']Wouldn't the pinning be, as far as they're concerned, "All prices are the manufacturers' or suppliers' suggested retail prices unless otherwise announced?"[/quote]
Let me try this another way.
Your Final Jeopardy clue is: "According to Information Please, this president was left-handed."
You say: "Who is Herbert Hoover?"
Alex says: "No, I'm sorry. The correct respose is, 'Who is Ronald Reagan?' "
You say: "But Hoover was a leftie too!"
They say: "Our source says that Reagan was left-handed. Therefore we are right."
Your brain explodes.
In other words, sourcing an item is one thing and pinning it is another.
[/quote]
Gotcha. Matt Ottinger kicked my ass. :)
/Aren't you glad I didn't say Numberwang?