The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: RMF on January 16, 2008, 02:30:04 AM
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This question is inspired by the British tape-hunters. There have been quite a few finds of missing programing in that country from home recordings, going as far back as 1965.
For comparative purposes, would anyone here know the earliest surviving American home video recordings, both in the game show genre, and in any other television genres?
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Okay, Mother was from 1948, right? Game show wise, I think that's the earliest known surviving footage, correct me if I'm wrong.
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[quote name=\'PYLW\' post=\'175118\' date=\'Jan 16 2008, 11:53 AM\']
Okay, Mother was from 1948, right? Game show wise, I think that's the earliest known surviving footage, correct me if I'm wrong.
[/quote]
I would love to see the home video recorder that rolled on that in 1948. It must have been *huge*.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'175119\' date=\'Jan 16 2008, 02:57 PM\']
I would love to see the home video recorder that rolled on that in 1948. It must have been *huge*.[/quote]
Yeah, PYLW didn't quite understand the question.
I'd be amazed if anything from back in the sixties survives only because some forward-thinking early-adapter saved it on his U-matic, but I imagine anything's possible. The Warhol collection seems to be just about the best-known example of early stuff being saved by a completely independent second party. For the record, the 1974 Three on a Match episodes I was talking about in another thread were preserved because the winning player had his local TV station record and save them for him. I magine maybe someday we'll encounter a few more examples of that kind of thing.
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Mea culpa. That's what I get for going on this board right when I come home from work.
When did the practice of home recording begin? Late 60's/early 70's? Is the Deacon $10,000 Pyramid a studio master? If not, then maybe that could be up there in early recordings.
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[quote name=\'PYLW\' post=\'175123\' date=\'Jan 16 2008, 03:14 PM\']
When did the practice of home recording begin? Late 60's/early 70's? Is the Deacon $10,000 Pyramid a studio master? If not, then maybe that could be up there in early recordings.
[/quote]
I remember reading that the first commercial VCRs sold c. 1975 or '76. Ray Glasser on Youtube (videohollic08) has posted stuff dating back to late-1976.
I believe the Pyramid eps. are indeed studio masters.
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In one of the volumes of his autobiography (1979-1980), Isaac Asimov mentions that his son David was a "man of leisure" (I think those were his words), who didn't do much of anything, but who did enjoy taping shows off of TV. I've always wanted to see that collection.
-M
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I remember reading that the first commercial VCRs sold c. 1975 or '76. Ray Glasser on Youtube (videohollic08) has posted stuff dating back to late-1976.
Part of the problem with finding home recordings that old are that tapes were very expensive back then. When we got our first VCR (Christmas 1982), a T-120 tape was something like $9. Usually when we watched what we recorded we re-used them the next day. I'd imagine it was the same with most people until tapes became cheaper.
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Well, if you want to go by the rule of "conceivably could have been recorded at home", there were "portable" VTRs being sold in 1963 (using 2" tape, written in a proprietary 2-head Ampex helical scan format). And for that matter, Hugh Hefner is reported to have had full-scale Ampex quad machines in the Mansion back in the 60s.
However, more likely to surface would be recordings in the open-reel 1/2" formats (similar to the UK Shibaden format), which first gained traction in the US market in about 1969. The "$10,000 Pyramid" episode opening with June Lockhart and Rob Reiner from 1973 is one of those. The oldest game show eps verified to exist in that format would be the reels in the UCLA archive that date from 1971, which happen to include (among other things) an episode from the opening week of the ABC version of "Password".
-Kevin
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'175126\' date=\'Jan 16 2008, 03:46 PM\']
[quote name=\'PYLW\' post=\'175123\' date=\'Jan 16 2008, 03:14 PM\']
When did the practice of home recording begin? Late 60's/early 70's? Is the Deacon $10,000 Pyramid a studio master? If not, then maybe that could be up there in early recordings.
[/quote]
I remember reading that the first commercial VCRs sold c. 1975 or '76. Ray Glasser on Youtube (videohollic08) has posted stuff dating back to late-1976.
[/quote]
Betamax was. The earliest VCRs (the Philips N1500) are from 1972, U-Matic from 1971, and open-reel formats were around in the 1960s.
Below are a few links to British (non-game) clips:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apNG4Kc4f84 (http://\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apNG4Kc4f84\")
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRWN1t2q4UA (http://\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRWN1t2q4UA\")
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhlnDQS5KEE (http://\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhlnDQS5KEE\")
Edit: Thank you, TwoInchQuad, for the on-topic answer. How about for American television programs in general?
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[quote name=\'RMF\' post=\'175172\' date=\'Jan 16 2008, 04:12 PM\']
Edit: Thank you, TwoInchQuad, for the on-topic answer. How about for American television programs in general?
[/quote]
In terms of **videotape**, those same UCLA reels also captured other daytime programs on the three major networks, so those are the earliest **verified** recordings that I know of. I'm sure there are many that exist which are even older, but just haven't surfaced.
In terms of US home video recordings in general, it woud probably be the Zacherle shows that were recorded by a fan on a home-brewed kinescoping set-up... this was in the late 50's, IIRC. Portions of those recordings have been released on DVD.
-Kevin
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The old World of Soap Themes website once had an episode online of As the World Turns which had been recorded on one of those old open reel recorders in 1972. IIRC those things could only record in black and white, regardless of whether the signal it was receiving was in color or not.
Greg
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'175141\' date=\'Jan 16 2008, 01:22 PM\']
Usually when we watched what we recorded we re-used them the next day. I'd imagine it was the same with most people until tapes became cheaper.
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Yes, and I frequently hit myself over the head for it. I distinctly remember recording anywhere from two to three hours a day of game shows in 1984 (got my first VCR in December 1983 -- a bargain at only $750 at J.C. Penney!), and then watching them and promptly reusing the same tape the very next day. Oh, the things I could have kept.
Fortunately, I did have the foresight to save a few things, such as six uninterrupted hours of MTV from December 1983 and the few clips I've recently posted here as part of my conversion to DVD. But my vault could have been so much larger.
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That early 10KP clip was definitely recorded on one of those open-reel VTR's------I'm not sure if it was a home recording, but it is possible.....
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[quote name=\'Chief-O\' post=\'175184\' date=\'Jan 16 2008, 08:14 PM\']
That early 10KP clip was definitely recorded on one of those open-reel VTR's------I'm not sure if it was a home recording, but it is possible.....
[/quote]
it was most likely a recorder called a Shibaden 1/2" videotape (skip field recording), where only half of the field is recorded and they are known for low quality playback. The recordings was reel-to-reel, and now a days, the recorders are really hard to find since only a handful exist.
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I knew Dick Van Dyke in the mid-60's and he did indeed have a tv-taping tape recorder which cost a few thousand dollars. However the quality wasn't all that good and he ended up donating it to some black youth organization, for a tax write-off, I assume. I have no idea who made the thing.
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I think in terms of the trading circuit, probably one of the earliest off-air recordings would have to be that $10,000 Pyramid with Richard Deacon and Kaye Ballard. That was probably taped off WCBS, as it it had commercials for Brooklyn stores and other things. That looked like it could've been taped off of a VCR from that era, especially since even a first or second gen copy looked lousy, lol.
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[quote name=\'Kniwt\' post=\'175181\' date=\'Jan 16 2008, 08:07 PM\']
Yes, and I frequently hit myself over the head for it. I distinctly remember recording anywhere from two to three hours a day of game shows in 1984 (got my first VCR in December 1983 -- a bargain at only $750 at J.C. Penney!), and then watching them and promptly reusing the same tape the very next day. Oh, the things I could have kept.
[/quote]
Should've shopped at Ward's--they had them for $699 (http://\"http://www.flickr.com/photos/7565946@N06/2202725225/\")...:-)
I still kick myself over finding an old tape at home with the back half of "Saturday Night Live", an "Ironside" rerun after that, then a late news wrap-up with details from "last week's nuclear accident at Three Mile Island". Watched it, enjoyed it, then didn't lock it away and it got taped over...ugh.
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[quote name=\'bscripps\' post=\'175509\' date=\'Jan 19 2008, 03:33 AM\']Should've shopped at Ward's--they had them for $699 (http://\"http://www.flickr.com/photos/7565946@N06/2202725225/\")...:-) [/quote]
Wanna know something sad? I still have a working model of a Sony Betamax not all that different than the one in that ad!
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'175514\' date=\'Jan 19 2008, 08:04 AM\']
[quote name=\'bscripps\' post=\'175509\' date=\'Jan 19 2008, 03:33 AM\']Should've shopped at Ward's--they had them for $699 (http://\"http://www.flickr.com/photos/7565946@N06/2202725225/\")...:-) [/quote]
Wanna know something sad? I still have a working model of a Sony Betamax not all that different than the one in that ad!
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For anyone else who has an old Betamax ... I know a way that you can get lots of tapes for it, cheap ... or even free.
Most TV stations have been using machines that play Betamax cassettes for years. But the head scan pattern is different.
Now, most stations are changing to digital, so they're getting rid of shelves and shelves worth of tapes.
Or, if you'd just as soon buy new ones, they're available from businesses that sell to TV stations.
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[quote name=\'geno57\' post=\'175518\' date=\'Jan 19 2008, 10:55 AM\']
For anyone else who has an old Betamax ... I know a way that you can get lots of tapes for it, cheap ... or even free.
Most TV stations have been using machines that play Betamax cassettes for years. But the head scan pattern is different.
Now, most stations are changing to digital, so they're getting rid of shelves and shelves worth of tapes.
Or, if you'd just as soon buy new ones, they're available from businesses that sell to TV stations.
[/quote]
Problem is, the Betacam SP tapes those stations have been using have a metal particle formula, instead of the metal oxide formula used on Betamax [or original non-SP Betacam] tapes. Put a Beta SP tape in your Betamax deck, and it'll ruin the video heads. Non-SP Betacam tapes will work just fine.
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In some non-game show genres, the earliest off-air sports broadcast I've come across is a Dallas-Minnesota NFC playoff game from late December 1975 (Drew Pearson's "Hail Mary" catch to pull off an upset Dallas victory), recorded off a Houston station.
I also have the first 90 minutes of Johnny Carson's 12th Anniversary program (October 1974) that comes from some Michigan station as there are a couple local ads in there.
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The earliest home VCR that was not a reel-to-reel machine and was available for the general public was the Cartivision. This machine had prerecorded movies available for rent, which could only be watched once, as the hardware necessary to rewind them was only available to retailers. Mostly available through Sears and Montgomery Wards, they retailed for about $1,350 and were manufactured from 1972-1973.
Betamax as we know it first appeared in New York and Los Angeles in September 1975, and then expanded its reach in January 1976. Its original price tag was about $2,295, with tapes that could hold 1 hour costing around $20-$25. Prices dropped in the next few years as the format war with VHS intensified, and we all know how that story unfolded.
Given that history, it's almost certain that the earliest home recordings circulating are from late 1975 or early 1976. The March 1, 1976 episode of the $20,000 Pyramid is from a home recording for sure. As far the 1973 Deacon-Ballard $10,000 Pyramid, that is likely from a U-Matic machine, which were generally used by TV stations.
-Flea
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[quote name=\'TheFlea\' post=\'175554\' date=\'Jan 19 2008, 08:41 PM\']
The earliest home VCR that was not a reel-to-reel machine and was available for the general public was the Cartivision. This machine had prerecorded movies available for rent, which could only be watched once, as the hardware necessary to rewind them was only available to retailers. Mostly available through Sears and Montgomery Wards, they retailed for about $1,350 and were manufactured from 1972-1973.
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Wow, I never realized that the limited viewing option for movies went that far back!
I don't know what crashed sooner: The Cartvision or that DVD ripoff in the 90's from Circuit City (or was it Best Buy) that allowed you to watch a DVD once or twice before it would 'lock' up until you bought the rights to unlock it again from the store.
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[quote name=\'TimK2003\' post=\'175661\' date=\'Jan 20 2008, 05:53 PM\']
The Cartvision or that DVD ripoff in the 90's from Circuit City (or was it Best Buy) that allowed you to watch a DVD once or twice before it would 'lock' up until you bought the rights to unlock it again from the store.
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Divx! Horrible product, great codec. ;)
/no, the two aren't related
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And of course, there's those DVDs that play for only 48 hours before they turn black and become non-playable.
They tried selling these at 7-11s, but it fell flat. I do see them still on sale at airports and truck stops, though.
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As far the 1973 Deacon-Ballard $10,000 Pyramid, that is likely from a U-Matic machine, which were generally used by TV stations.
Not really about home recordings, but having been inside some TV station "back rooms" before I always wonder if any of the stations that tape-delayed shows like that for airing later that day, or early the next day, still might have some of those tapes lying around somewhere. Granted, that was decades ago, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were still some out there from some "lost" shows, especially considering what's turned up in recent years. I guess the format they're in probably would cause problems for anyone trying to view it though.