The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: chris319 on January 15, 2008, 05:34:48 PM
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Self explanatory:
http://tvpmm.com/documents/television_prod...sic_museum.html (http://\"http://tvpmm.com/documents/television_production_music_museum.html\")
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Do we have any further evidence that this is a legitimate operation, and not a fan-created site attempting to look more legitimate than it actually is?
I did a little homework, and I'm not sure, myself. (Though I'm pretty sure he's a lurker here, and certainly welcome to speak up.)
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Given the material he has access to, I'm inclined to think it's someone on "the inside" rather than a fanb0i who got some 27th-generation VHS airchecks off of WHIZ-TV in Zanesville, Ohio.
http://www.whiznews.com/tv/ (http://\"http://www.whiznews.com/tv/\")
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'175024\' date=\'Jan 15 2008, 06:14 PM\']
Given the material he has access to, I'm inclined to think it's someone on "the inside" rather than a fanb0i who got a 27th-generation VHS aircheck off of WHIZ-TV in Zanesville, Ohio.
http://www.whiznews.com/tv/ (http://\"http://www.whiznews.com/tv/\")
[/quote]
I seriously lol'd at this line.
And what about the fanb0i who got a 33d-generation VHS aircheck off of KNOP-TV in North Platte, Nebraska (http://\"http://www.knopnews2.com\")?
/Double score for anyone who gets the significance of said station.
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I agree with Chris. Wherever the material came from, it wasn't from home recordings, with the quality as great as the masters. And also the amount of cues from each show is big. I think the demo to Mark Goodson for Classic Concentration says this person could be close the people, at the very least. I'd say this is a legitimate thing that is run like the Catholic League.
Well, possibly. ;)
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I highly recommend the Classic Concentration section...
OMG!!!
Josh
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'175024\' date=\'Jan 15 2008, 03:14 PM\']
Given the material he has access to, I'm inclined to think it's someone on "the inside" rather than a fanb0i who got some 27th-generation VHS airchecks off of WHIZ-TV in Zanesville, Ohio.
[/quote]
Not saying your wrong, but you would think that someone on "the inside" would know better than to claim that the stuff featured on the site was "believed to be in the public domain."
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And what about the fanb0i who got a 33d-generation VHS aircheck off of KNOP-TV in North Platte, Nebraska?
Not as bad as the maroons who post YouTube clips captured by pointing a webcam at a TV set playing back said 33rd-generation VHS aircheck. Chris Lemon and I are going to descend on these people's houses with hammers and smash their hard drives to itty bits.
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Not saying your wrong, but you would think that someone on "the inside" would know better than to claim that the stuff featured on the site was "believed to be in the public domain."
Have you read the paragraph after paragraph of legal disclaimers on this site? Besides, what fanb0i would know about a composer married to a famous singer/composer and the ensuing destruction of sheet music and tapes? This ain't no fanb0i operation, IMPO*.
*In My Professional Opinion
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'175033\' date=\'Jan 15 2008, 06:43 PM\']
Not as bad as the maroons who post YouTube clips captured by pointing a webcam at a TV set playing back said 33rd-generation VHS aircheck. Chris Lemon and I are going to descend on these people's houses with hammers and smash their hard drives to itty bits.
[/quote]
No, you're not.
Not with just a hammer, anyway. I want you to be absolutely sure that nothing can be recovered.
/Webcam-pointed-at-TV clips suck
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[quote name=\'joshg\' post=\'175031\' date=\'Jan 15 2008, 06:38 PM\']
I highly recommend the Classic Concentration section...
[/quote]
I get all the Concentration '73 cues, and I see the track listing for Classic Concentration, but don't see them anywhere in the player. Am I missing something, or are they just not there?
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'175034\' date=\'Jan 15 2008, 03:47 PM\']
Have you read the paragraph after paragraph of legal disclaimers on this site?
[/quote]
I have indeed. That is exactly where I found the above quote, which is why I found it so curious.
I'm not saying you're wrong at all, but that's still a weird claim to make.
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that's still a weird claim to make
Well, we're not copyright attorneys so neither of us is qualified to say. If you want me to go to the trouble, I can look up the BMI attorney who was a contestant on my production of Match Game at the last Congreff and ask him. Whoever is behind this clearly had the sense to hire a lawyer and do the necessary legal a** covering. When it comes to music, there is a tremendous amount of legal stuff going on behind the scenes that we outsiders are not privy to.
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As I basically said in another thread, I'm of the mind that this is just another collector, though certainly one with slightly better-than-average access to material, possibly because he's managed to get a professional or two to take his "museum" seriously. In other words, on the professionalism scale, I think this is someone a lot closer to Jamie Locklin than Edd Kalehoff.
I would wonder why an real insider would have any interest in posting a site like this, especially without identifying himself. A pro would probably be doing a little better job about assigning copyright too, and not be so quick to play the "public domain" card like so many collectors do. Also, given the wealth of game show musical history out there, this is an oddly eclectic and spotty collection. Not that there aren't some wonderful pieces, clips that obviously came from professional sources, but a 'museum' run by any kind of insider would be larger and wouldn't be made up primarily of stuff that collectors find rare. An insider wouldn't know or care what we have. This guy's just trying to show off. And to be fair, doing a pretty good job of it.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'175038\' date=\'Jan 15 2008, 07:05 PM\']
Whoever is behind this clearly had the sense to hire a lawyer and do the necessary legal a** covering. [/quote]
Nope. Whoever is behind this clearly cut and pasted this (http://\"http://www.link4u.com/disclaimer.htm\"). I imagine if I tried harder, I'd find other copyright language stolen from other sites. (Is that irony? I'm no longer sure.) This one took me about a minute.
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Not with just a hammer, anyway. I want you to be absolutely sure that nothing can be recovered.
Blowtorches are too risky -- might burn the place down*. Besides, Leo LaPorte and Patrick Norton said it was good enough to smash the platter to itty bits, so it must be.
*Which might be a good thing if it's a certain person's residence in a certain city. I think you know what I mean.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'175024\' date=\'Jan 15 2008, 06:14 PM\']
Given the material he has access to, I'm inclined to think it's someone on "the inside" rather than a fanb0i who got some 27th-generation VHS airchecks off of WHIZ-TV in Zanesville, Ohio.
http://www.whiznews.com/tv/ (http://\"http://www.whiznews.com/tv/\")
[/quote]
LOL, I would like to know the significance of this, as I can currently throw a rock and hit the WHIZ TV Studio where I am sitting right now. I know its a pretty low-grade station when it comes to quality (especially in the newscast). It's just shocking to be scrolling thru this thread and see my local redneck station mentioned.
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Whoever is behind this clearly cut and pasted this. I imagine if I tried harder, I'd find other copyright language stolen from other sites. (Is that irony? I'm no longer sure.) This one took me about a minute.
That's why you're the Master of the Obvious.
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I picked WHIZ just as a goofy set of call letters, but first did my due diligence and checked to see if there actually is a TV station with those call letters, which naturally there is.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'175053\' date=\'Jan 15 2008, 08:03 PM\']
I picked WHIZ just as a goofy set of call letters, but first did my due diligence and checked to see if there actually is a TV station with those call letters, which naturally there is.
[/quote]
Which brings us to the GSN/Nicktoons co-production ZAP! The All-New Don't WHIZ on the Electric Fence.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'175053\' date=\'Jan 15 2008, 08:03 PM\']
I picked WHIZ just as a goofy set of call letters, but first did my due diligence and checked to see if there actually is a TV station with those call letters, which naturally there is.
[/quote]
Well, I'm still laughing. That's crazy stuff. It stands for "We're Here In Zanesville". And, like I said before, is not the greatest station of all time (NBC afil), but they have picked up some syndicated game shows in the past that nobody else has, and for that I can get past the "amateurness" that they present (I could do better news stories with my camcorder).
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'175053\' date=\'Jan 15 2008, 08:03 PM\']
I picked WHIZ just as a goofy set of call letters, but first did my due diligence and checked to see if there actually is a TV station with those call letters, which naturally there is.[/quote]
And the fact that WHIZ belongs to a "local redneck station" just makes it all the more perfect.
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And the fact that WHIZ belongs to a "local redneck station" just makes it all the more perfect.
It's pretty bad, Matt (there may be some clips on YouTube, search WHIZ Zanesville).
It could only get more redneck if they hired Jeff Foxworthy as a correspondent.
But, anyway, back on topic.....
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Tomorrow's headline:
NEW GM TAKES WHIZ TO NEW HEIGHTS
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Some WHIZ(-TV) clips from the 'Tube (http://\"http://youtube.com/results?search_type=search_videos&search_sort=relevance&search_query=WHIZ+Zanesville&search=Search\")
I'm currently on a dial-up connection...but looking from the little snapshots...geesh.
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I know the gentleman who owns and operates the site. He is a pro in the entertainment industry, although not primarily in game shows. He's become friendly with a number of producers and composers, and his goal truly is to preserve the music.
I'm supporting the site and its owner, and I ain't just whizzin'.
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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Took a look around on the website, TRES COOL!
For those who haven't yet, go over to the Alan Thicke Section:
Good News: Thicke Classic unearthed!! (The 2nd Celebrity Sweepstakes Theme -- which by far fit the show better than the first theme)
Bad News: Still no Whew! theme...yet (still hoping to hear that theme in the clear someday).
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[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' post=\'175061\' date=\'Jan 15 2008, 05:31 PM\']
I know the gentleman who owns and operates the site.[/quote]
Good enough for me. That was the endorsement I was lookin' for. :)
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His copy of that Thicke promo album is as far as I know the only known source for those particular tracks (or any of Thicke's for that matter). That same copy was the source for the Wheel and Diamond Head themes on the GSN CD complilation.
Greg
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[quote name=\'TimK2003\' post=\'175063\' date=\'Jan 15 2008, 08:58 PM\']
Good News: Thicke Classic unearthed!! (The 2nd Celebrity Sweepstakes Theme -- which by far fit the show better than the first theme)
[/quote]
I've been looking for this one ever since I saw the show at the MT&R in summer-2003. I distinctly remembered the portion from about :26 in, but since the Stan Worth one was the only one circulating, I wondered was I losing my mind. Then I remembered I lost it LONG before 2003. :-P
Lovin' the site, esp. the Heatter-Quigley classics.
/MMM wasn't that bad.
//Okay, yeah it was.
///Sweet set, tho.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'175064\' date=\'Jan 15 2008, 09:00 PM\']
[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' post=\'175061\' date=\'Jan 15 2008, 05:31 PM\']
I know the gentleman who owns and operates the site.[/quote]
Good enough for me. That was the endorsement I was lookin' for. :)[/quote]
There are still parts of this that vaguely trouble me. (There's just something wrong about stealing information about copyright protection.) But if Randy vouches for it, then that's good enough for me too.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'175058\' date=\'Jan 15 2008, 05:18 PM\']
Tomorrow's headline:
NEW GM TAKES WHIZ TO NEW HEIGHTS
[/quote]
I like my slogan: "WHIZ is all over the news".
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'175070\' date=\'Jan 15 2008, 09:58 PM\']
I like my slogan: "WHIZ is all over the news".
[/quote]
Are their short news updates known as WHIZ Breaks?
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[quote name=\'bwood\' post=\'175050\' date=\'Jan 15 2008, 08:00 PM\']I can currently throw a rock and hit the WHIZ TV Studio where I am sitting right now.[/quote]
Note to other posters: if you are currently very near the KROQ studios, I absolutely do not want to hear what you plan to hit them with.
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WHIZ ... is its sister station WEEE?
(OBGS: would its high school bowl program be called WHIZ Kids?)
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[quote name=\'bwood\' post=\'175055\' date=\'Jan 15 2008, 08:09 PM\']
[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'175053\' date=\'Jan 15 2008, 08:03 PM\']
I picked WHIZ just as a goofy set of call letters, but first did my due diligence and checked to see if there actually is a TV station with those call letters, which naturally there is.
[/quote]
Well, I'm still laughing. That's crazy stuff. It stands for "We're Here In Zanesville". And, like I said before, is not the greatest station of all time (NBC afil), but they have picked up some syndicated game shows in the past that nobody else has, and for that I can get past the "amateurness" that they present (I could do better news stories with my camcorder).
[/quote]
Adding my brush with WHIZ greatness.
In 1994, I, a mere pup fresh out of college, got a call from the News Director (whom I believe is still WHIZzin'), and after a 6 hour drive to Zanesville, offered me a job as weekend weatherman.
I passed.
But, for all kids reading who want to be in local news, the rule of thumb is : never turn down a job into the business you want to be in. I don't regret it now, but it was 6 months until my 2nd job offer (which I took), and for each one of those nights in those 6 months, I wondered if I had turned down a good job.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'175067\' date=\'Jan 15 2008, 06:11 PM\']
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'175064\' date=\'Jan 15 2008, 09:00 PM\']
[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' post=\'175061\' date=\'Jan 15 2008, 05:31 PM\']
I know the gentleman who owns and operates the site.[/quote]
Good enough for me. That was the endorsement I was lookin' for. :)[/quote]
There are still parts of this that vaguely trouble me. (There's just something wrong about stealing information about copyright protection.) But if Randy vouches for it, then that's good enough for me too.[/quote]
Vouching? Well I ain't co-signing no freakin' loan! But he is a sane person in the entertainment biz who is passionate about the classic music and has been on a quest to preserve it for at least the 5 years that I've known him. That's enough for me.
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'175071\' date=\'Jan 15 2008, 07:06 PM\']
[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'175070\' date=\'Jan 15 2008, 09:58 PM\']
I like my slogan: "WHIZ is all over the news".
[/quote]
Are their short news updates known as WHIZ Breaks?
[/quote]
Amen, brother Herbert.
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[quote name=\'DrBear\' post=\'175077\' date=\'Jan 15 2008, 10:23 PM\']
(OBGS: would its high school bowl program be called WHIZ Kids?)
[/quote]
Well, if Chip Beall wanted to move his program from Texas to there, it could be QUIZ WHIZ!! (as it was in Dallas because Quiz WFAA doesn't work)
(OBGS: Beall is a 3-time J! champ)
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I went to school in Athens, which is near enough to Zanesville that they were my local TV news provider. That part of Ohio is big in dairy farming--not Wisconsin big, but plenty of production. There were some farmers who started making this great artisanal cheddar, which of course got them a story on the station, even though nobody else covered it. The story was so popular it turned into a recurring feature.
*wait for it*
They called it Cheese WHIZ.
*ducks*
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(downs antacid from all the WHIZ Wit)
/only as directed
//nonetheless, yum
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It's also WHIZ [Gary Owens] AM and FM. [GO] (The FM's "Z102.")
I can just see the front of the sales brochure--"Do you want to reach audiences in the Zanesville area? Take a WHIZ!"
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I wonder if there’s a 2nd Thicke album around somewhere. Wheel of Fortune and a couple of other shows added several new Thicke cues in the late ‘70s - none of which are on that first album - and then there’s that elusive Whew theme.
I loved hearing that Celebrity Sweepstakes theme again for the first time in 31 years! From watching the show back then I knew the tune from memory, but it’s nice to actually hear it again. For the record, that theme was the 2nd theme, used right up until the summer of 1976 when they changed the show’s format. They reverted back to the first theme after that.
There is a 1-minute promo from KNBC’s nighttime airing of the show floating around, and you can hear a brief portion of the 2nd theme there.
/Still hoping for more episodes of this show to surface...
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[quote name=\'DrBear\' post=\'175077\' date=\'Jan 15 2008, 10:23 PM\']
(OBGS: would its high school bowl program be called WHIZ Kids?)
[/quote]
That program would be called "High School Honor Society". I was on it with my school numerous times. It taped in the basement lobby of the radio station across the street (not kidding).
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'175138\' date=\'Jan 16 2008, 03:18 PM\']
I wonder if there’s a 2nd Thicke album around somewhere. Wheel of Fortune and a couple of other shows added several new Thicke cues in the late ‘70s - none of which are on that first album - and then there’s that elusive Whew theme.
[/quote]
Not to mention the "Stumpers" theme. That was from '75, wasn't it??? I'm surprised it wasn't on this album.
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'175138\' date=\'Jan 16 2008, 01:18 PM\'] ... I loved hearing that Celebrity Sweepstakes theme again for the first time in 31 years! From watching the show back then I knew the tune from memory, but it’s nice to actually hear it again...[/quote]
Well, that's been my feeling about finding the lost but loved themes that have echoed in my memory. I, nor the site owner, really understand some of the negativity that has surfaced. In his words:
... I'm am completely surprised that collectors/fans aren't gratefully to be able to simply go to the site and listen to classic TV music without paying or being asked for something in return... quite blown away. Yes, some of the copyright legal material is cut and pasted because I simply didn't want (or need) to pay a lawyer to restate the same things. I had planned on putting a mountain of research material (music) on the site but to read some of the unhappy, cheap shot comments makes me want to completely rethink sharing this archival material.
Can you help he and me understand the "cheap shot comments"? I'd like to see this buddy of mine remain passionate about the work of preserving and sharing the music. Thanks.
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' post=\'175189\' date=\'Jan 16 2008, 06:20 PM\']
Can you help he and me understand the "cheap shot comments"? I'd like to see this buddy of mine remain passionate about the work of preserving and sharing the music. Thanks.
[/quote]
Apparently your friend thinks that asking some very legitimate questions (particularly considering the recent situation with several users here and Jamie Locklin) about the background of his site constitutes a "cheap shot," when all we wanted to know was who we were dealing with. Which, considering some of the yahoos who have "opened" similar "museums," is a completely reasonable curiosity.
Your friend should note that once those questions were answered and we knew that he wasn't one of said yahoos, everyone was content, except for a slight (and quite justified) eyebrow-raise about plagiarizing legal boilerplate and claiming public domain when he really ought to know better.
Are we grateful? Sure we are! Gawd knows I am, I very much enjoyed all three episodes he posted. But if your friend is now going to play the "I'm gonna take my ball and go home" card, that's quite unfortunate, but I completely fail to see where any of the issues that have been raised with regard to his site are out of line. We had questions, he answered them, everything's fine.
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'175138\' date=\'Jan 16 2008, 01:18 PM\'] ... I loved hearing that Celebrity Sweepstakes theme again for the first time in 31 years! From watching the show back then I knew the tune from memory, but it’s nice to actually hear it again...[/quote]
Same here, I remembered nearly all of the main chorus...Damn is that theme addicting!! :)
[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' post=\'175189\' date=\'Jan 16 2008, 10:20 PM\']
Well, that's been my feeling about finding the lost but loved themes that have echoed in my memory. I, nor the site owner, really understand some of the negativity that has surfaced. In his words:
... I'm am completely surprised that collectors/fans aren't gratefully to be able to simply go to the site and listen to classic TV music without paying or being asked for something in return... quite blown away. Yes, some of the copyright legal material is cut and pasted because I simply didn't want (or need) to pay a lawyer to restate the same things. I had planned on putting a mountain of research material (music) on the site but to read some of the unhappy, cheap shot comments makes me want to completely rethink sharing this archival material.
Can you help he and me understand the "cheap shot comments"? I'd like to see this buddy of mine remain passionate about the work of preserving and sharing the music. Thanks.
[/quote]
I hope he's not taking the "____________'s theme can be heard there but why isn't _________________'s other music there" the wrong way. For example, when I said that it was awesome to hear the Celebrity Sweepstakes 2nd theme again, but Whew! was nowhere to be found, it's not like we are expecting him to specifically find it for us or to think that he is holding it back for some reason if he did have it.
I also hope that our recent initial postings of us being "overly suspicious" of the website in general weren't misconstrued to think that the site was 'illegal' for some attorney's reason -- it's just that there are some bad apples in the internet world that make enough waves to shut harmless websites down (this includes civilian websites that create downloadable computer games as a NON-PROFIT labor of love [i.e. Flashgames2], websites which contain streamable audio/video for NON-PROFIT enjoyment [YouTube], as well as independent websites which simply pay tribute to specific Pop Culture icons [see Squares, Hollywood].
We just want to protect people who love game shows and who wish to add harmless content onto the web for our enjoyment -- nothing more/nothing less, and that includes the TPMM!!!
I just wish we had more TV execs and their lawyers on our side who know we are harmless people who are not out to make a better profit of their materials then what they can/will do.
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I just sent an email to the site's owner letting him know what a wonderful thing I think he's doing. I think we should be appreciative of the site and not be trying to find things wrong with it.
Greg
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'175191\' date=\'Jan 16 2008, 06:59 PM\']
We had questions, he answered them, everything's fine.
[/quote]
We just want to protect people who love game shows and who wish to add harmless content onto the web -- nothing more/nothing less, and that includes the TPMM!!!
Done. Thanks.
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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I've re-read the thread several times. Obviously, the harshest comments came from me, and while I certainly don't consider them "cheap shots", I definitely see how someone -- especially someone not familiar with the general tenor of the discussion around here -- would be offended by the perceived attack on work about which he is justifiably proud. For that, I apologize.
Randy, in much the same way that you came here and "vouched" for your friend, surely you can go back and tell him that I'm not the unhappy bastard that some of these posts make me appear.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'175196\' date=\'Jan 16 2008, 11:27 PM\']
Randy, in much the same way that you came here and "vouched" for your friend, surely you can go back and tell him that I'm not the unhappy bastard that some of these posts make me appear.
[/quote]
But if Randy's friend already knew who Matt Ottinger was, or if he had read the recent thread about Matt -- He would already know, and would be afraid to even think of Matt's Name and the B-word in the same thought. :-)
/couldn't resist.
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I think my question got lost in the shuffle, so lemme ask again... I get all the Concentration '73 cues, and I see the track listing for Classic Concentration, but don't see them anywhere in the player. Am I missing something, or are they just not there?
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The Classic Concentration cues are in a separate player to the right of the '73 ones.
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[quote name=\'DYosua\' post=\'175223\' date=\'Jan 17 2008, 11:40 AM\']
The Classic Concentration cues are in a separate player to the right of the '73 ones.
[/quote]
Must be my browser, because I don't see a second player on the page.
EDIT: Yep, it's Firefox. First that stupid "quick search" thing that keeps me from typing apostrophes in web fields, then the cut & paste not working half the time, now this. This thing keeps giving me more and more reasons to go back to IE. /end off-topic rant.
At any rate, the site is phenomenal, and I would love to see this guy get in touch with Ray and Marc Ellis and get some of their work on display...
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He's now posted some music and outtakes from the various Jay Ward animated series. Glad to see we've not completely deterred him from posting anything new. Hope to see more game show music in the future as well.
Greg
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Apparently your friend thinks that asking some very legitimate questions (particularly considering the recent situation with several users here and Jamie Locklin) about the background of his site constitutes a "cheap shot," when all we wanted to know was who we were dealing with. Which, considering some of the yahoos who have "opened" similar "museums," is a completely reasonable curiosity.
Your friend should note that once those questions were answered and we knew that he wasn't one of said yahoos, everyone was content, except for a slight (and quite justified) eyebrow-raise about plagiarizing legal boilerplate and claiming public domain when he really ought to know better.
And to what end? You're not the FBI, you're not ASCAP, you're not BMI, and you're not the copyright holder of any of the material on his site, so to put it bluntly, what's it to you? He's assuming any and all legal risk, not you. If anyone feels aggreived by his posting this material on the web, they're going to knock on his door, not yours. BTW, the proprietor of this site doesn't know or care who Jamie Locklin is and doesn't know or care about a certain individual who used to sell cassettes of Score Productions music on ebay. I didn't say it at the time, but I have a hard time understanding why all of this suspicion about this site and its operator was warranted. Now we've demotivated this guy from pursuing his project and this board is collectively on his s***list. Welcome to the land of unintended consequences.
You can post all of the rationalizations you want in response to this post but I doubt it will undo the malaise this guy feels towards us now, and to his project in general.
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to put myself on any higher pedestal here, but I have been in support of this project from the get go. I have spoken with the owner of that site on a couple of occasions in the past and he really is everything he says he is. Maybe museum isn't the best choice of word for the site's title, but his goal has always been the preservation of all television music - not just game show music. I realize his views of this board may be tainted by the few who spoke out in criticism, but I must say I don't think those few represent the views of the game show community as a whole. I'm appreciative of his efforts and I'm glad that he finally has the resources to share his collection with the general public. I hope he continues to do so.
Greg
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'175232\' date=\'Jan 17 2008, 10:04 AM\']
And to what end? You're not the FBI, you're not ASCAP, you're not BMI, and you're not the copyright holder of any of the material on his site, so to put it bluntly, what's it to you?[/quote]
Mere curiosity, nothing more. Ya know, we talk about stuff like that here.
Now we've demotivated this guy from pursuing his project and this board is collectively on his s***list. Welcome to the land of unintended consequences.
He hasn't been on the Internet very long if all it took to demotivate him was a few people he doesn't know from Adam asking some questions about his site.
You can post all of the rationalizations you want in response to this post
Don't worry, I have nothing to rationalize to anyone here.
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I have nothing to rationalize to anyone here.
You sure as hell don't.
I have sent an apology to the operator of the Television Production Music Museum.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'175241\' date=\'Jan 17 2008, 12:09 PM\']
You sure as hell don't.[/quote]
I'm glad we agree! :D
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'175232\' date=\'Jan 17 2008, 10:04 AM\']
BTW, the proprietor of this site doesn't know or care who Jamie Locklin is and doesn't know or care about a certain individual who used to sell cassettes of Score Productions music on ebay. I didn't say it at the time, but I have a hard time understanding why all of this suspicion about this site and its operator was warranted. Now we've demotivated this guy from pursuing his project and this board is collectively on his s***list. Welcome to the land of unintended consequences.
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I would like to clear up a misunderstanding on your part regarding who the proprietor of that site knows and who he doesn't know. He not only knows one of the individuals you've mentioned. But the propietor of the site obtained a good deal of music directly from him on several occasions. Next time it would pay to do your homework before you post assumptions. I work in the business and I have been friendly with both.
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I would like to clear up a misunderstanding on your part regarding who the proprietor of that site knows and who he doesn't know. He not only knows one of the individuals you've mentioned. But the propietor of the site obtained a good deal of music directly from him on several occasions. Next time it would pay to do your homework before you post assumptions. I work in the business and I have been friendly with both.
Thanks for clearing that up, MasterKey. I stand corrected for posting an erroneous assumption. Now I have a question for you. How would it be possible for me to "do my homework" on whom the proprietor of this web site knows or doesn't know when I don't even know his identity? It is a chicken-and-egg scenario. If you'll review my posts in this thread you will find that I have been uniformly supportive of this person whose identity I don't know, to the point of sending him an apology on behalf of this board.
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Not that anyone cares, but I'm boggling both at some of the initial criticism, and at some of the opposite reaction to it. To say more would be to risk saying something inflammatory, though--really not worth it.
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[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' post=\'175303\' date=\'Jan 17 2008, 05:40 PM\']
Not that anyone cares, but I'm boggling both at some of the initial criticism, and at some of the opposite reaction to it. To say more would be to risk saying something inflammatory, though--really not worth it.
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Robert, I seriously regret having even started this damn thread.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'175266\' date=\'Jan 17 2008, 03:01 PM\']
I would like to clear up a misunderstanding on your part regarding who the proprietor of that site knows and who he doesn't know. He not only knows one of the individuals you've mentioned. But the propietor of the site obtained a good deal of music directly from him on several occasions. Next time it would pay to do your homework before you post assumptions. I work in the business and I have been friendly with both.
Thanks for clearing that up, MasterKey. I stand corrected for posting an erroneous assumption. Now I have a question for you. How would it be possible for me to "do my homework" on whom the proprietor of this web site knows or doesn't know when I don't even know his identity? It is a chicken-and-egg scenario. If you'll review my posts in this thread you will find that I have been uniformly supportive of this person whose identity I don't know, to the point of sending him an apology on behalf of this board.
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To answer your question, That very same email address you used to send the propietor an apology could have also been used by you to ask him if he knew the two parties you mentioned before you decided to make false assumptions that he not only doesn't know them, but also doesn't care about them. You have given him a second reason to add this site to his *S* list. I have known the propietor of the museum for many years and you would be surprised at who he knows. So since you have admitted to having no clue who the proprietor even is, it is certainly a bold move for you to come here and tell everybody who he doesn't know and who he doesn't care about.
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[quote name=\'MasterKey\' post=\'175335\' date=\'Jan 17 2008, 10:48 PM\']
To answer your question, That very same email address you used to send the propietor an apology could have also been used by you to ask him if he knew the two parties you mentioned before you decided to make false assumptions that he not only doesn't know them, but also doesn't care about them. You have given him a second reason to add this site to his *S* list. I have known the propietor of the museum for many years and you would be surprised at who he knows. So since you have admitted to having no clue who the proprietor even is, it is certainly a bold move for you to come here and tell everybody who he doesn't know and who he doesn't care about.
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As an outsider to this increasingly uncomfortable situation who has nonetheless followed the entire thread and has no personal or emotional stake with any of the parties involved... it seems to me that the only reason the identities of Jamie Locklin and the Score Production cassettes individual (who I have absolutely no clue to the identify of) were invoked was to provide examples of individuals who perhaps have not made the best decisions, from a legal standpoint, in distributing similar copyrighted material. Any relationship between the proprietor of this online museum and the aforementioned seems rather inconsequential, a perceived slight at best.
With the utmost respect to MasterKey, it seems that chris319 has done nothing but defend the museum proprietor, and though I could not possibly speak for everyone, I would imagine that the vast, vast majority of the users of this board are phenomenally grateful to him, whomever he may be, for his effort and contribution. The sole source of the negativity and initial distrust in this thread is the same individual responsible for the overwhelming majority of the negativity on this forum as a whole, and he knows who he is.
Please, sir, do not take the behavior of one ill-tempered poster as a representation of us as a whole.
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MasterKey -
Two problems with your suggestion: 1) I have yet to receive a response to my apology from said web site proprietor. If I had also asked him if he knew this other person, I would likely still be waiting for a response; 2) Related to the above, as one of the founders and proprietors of this board I had a responsibility to address the brewing conflict between people who were casting aspersions on his web site and the people who took offense at it. In my five years of running this board I have found that these things have to be dealt with in a timely fashion. I hope you also noticed that I was consistent in defending your friend and his web site.
it is certainly a bold move for you to come here and tell everybody who he doesn't know and who he doesn't care about
I frankly don't understand where all this hostility is coming from. All I did was state, erroneously, that two people were unacquainted with each other. I don't see how that qualifies as a heinous act. I did not malign them, besmirch them or otherwise sully their reputations. I then admitted to the error of my ways. Let's move on.
you would be surprised at who he knows
You would be quite surprised at who I know and what I know about them.
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As an outsider to this increasingly uncomfortable situation who has nonetheless followed the entire thread and has no personal or emotional stake with any of the parties involved... it seems to me that the only reason the identities of Jamie Locklin and the Score Production cassettes individual (who I have absolutely no clue to the identify of) were invoked was to provide examples of individuals who perhaps have not made the best decisions, from a legal standpoint, in distributing similar copyrighted material.
To quote something that the Executive Producer posted in this thread. You're not the FBI, you're not ASCAP, you're not BMI, and you're not the copyright holder of any of the material on his site, so to put it bluntly, what's it to you? He's assuming any and all legal risk, not you. If anyone feels aggreived by his posting this material on the web, they're going to knock on his door, not yours
After reading his take on the situation, I would hope that he feels the same way regarding any individual who has posted theme music in the past. It would be hypocritical for him not to. In this instance, there is now a new place that offers something for all to enjoy. I am one who believes that you can sometimes ask to many questions. When you receive a Christmas gift you don't typically ask twenty questions of the person who gave it to you? Chances are that when receiving a gift, you smile, you say thank you and you consider yourself lucky to know someone who cares enough to give you a present in the first place. It would only be polite to behave the same way on the internet.
I know that most of you do appreciate the new offerings to come your way. Thank you for that. As a friend to the museum I know that any positive feedback is more than welcome.
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[quote name=\'MasterKey\' post=\'175345\' date=\'Jan 17 2008, 11:52 PM\']
[quote name=\'CountdownRound\' post=\'175338\' date=\'Jan 17 2008, 08:20 PM\']
As an outsider to this increasingly uncomfortable situation who has nonetheless followed the entire thread and has no personal or emotional stake with any of the parties involved... it seems to me that the only reason the identities of Jamie Locklin and the Score Production cassettes individual (who I have absolutely no clue to the identify of) were invoked was to provide examples of individuals who perhaps have not made the best decisions, from a legal standpoint, in distributing similar copyrighted material.
[/quote]
To quote something that the Executive Producer posted in this thread. You're not the FBI, you're not ASCAP, you're not BMI, and you're not the copyright holder of any of the material on his site, so to put it bluntly, what's it to you? He's assuming any and all legal risk, not you. If anyone feels aggreived by his posting this material on the web, they're going to knock on his door, not yours
[/quote]
I agree wholeheartedly, and I join in the chiding of those who earlier chose to do just that. This is why I used the "perhaps" adverb. :) On a personal level, I have no problem at all with anything done by Mr. Locklin, John Chartier, Casey Buck or any other individual who has posted themes on the Internet, in respect to those action. Neither myself nor anyone else has any business playing "net cop" where this is concerned. Perhaps I should have asserted that in my prior post. All I did was try to come up with a logical explanation for why those individuals names were brought up in the conversation. (In doing so, I presumed to speak for chris319, something I should not have done; I have sent an apology.)
Make no mistake, I'm on the side of those who provide great music to the masses, by whatever means they choose to utilize.
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[quote name=\'CountdownRound\' post=\'175338\' date=\'Jan 17 2008, 11:20 PM\']
The sole source of the negativity and initial distrust in this thread is the same individual responsible for the overwhelming majority of the negativity on this forum as a whole, and he knows who he is.[/quote]
I promised myself I was going to stay out of this thread after apologizing, but this is simply a false statement, not to mention a terribly unnecessary one. I've already copped to the fact that MY comments were by far the harshest in the thread, and I doubt very seriously that I'm the one CountdownRound thinks he's talking about.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'175352\' date=\'Jan 18 2008, 12:28 AM\']
[quote name=\'CountdownRound\' post=\'175338\' date=\'Jan 17 2008, 11:20 PM\']
The sole source of the negativity and initial distrust in this thread is the same individual responsible for the overwhelming majority of the negativity on this forum as a whole, and he knows who he is.[/quote]
I promised myself I was going to stay out of this thread after apologizing, but this is simply a false statement, not to mention a terribly unnecessary one. I've already copped to the fact that MY comments were by far the harshest in the thread, and I doubt very seriously that I'm the one CountdownRound thinks he's talking about.
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No, you certainly weren't, Mr. Ottinger. Just the same, I withdraw and apologize for the comment. My differences with the individual in question aside, it was an unnecessary addendum to my broader point.
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After reading his take on the situation, I would hope that he feels the same way regarding any individual who has posted theme music in the past.
MasterKey -
I have protected many people's identities and reputations, both inside and outside the industry, over the issue of game show music -- more than you can ever hope to know. It would shock you to know whose reputations I have protected. I've been in the industry a few years and Hollywood is a very small town. As to how I feel about posting music on the web and whether I'm hypocritical about it, I have never, EVER, spoken out publicly or privately against anyone posting show music on the web. Anyone who tells you otherwise is misrepresenting the facts. I DO find it questionable when someone tries to sell something for profit that they don't own, such as recordings of copyrighted works and have opined about it on line.
Let's review here. I posted a link to the TV Music Museum (hereinafter referred to as the Museum). Immediately some of our members questioned the authenticity of this web site. I defended the site against this criticism by saying it "ain't no fanb0i operation". Then, another member who is acquainted with the Museum proprietor received an email from him taking umbrage with the criticism and that email was posted here. I then posted the message you object to which called one of the detractors to task for a) casting suspicion on the authenticity of the Museum, and b) cultivating ill will from said Museum proprietor. The whole purpose of that post was to quell the suspicion of the Museum's detractors, which it is my responsibility as an administrator/Executive Producer to do, and to offer support to the Museum's proprietor, viz.:
I didn't say it at the time, but I have a hard time understanding why all of this suspicion about this site and its operator was warranted. Now we've demotivated this guy from pursuing his project and this board is collectively on his s***list.
Now I'm catching Hell for coming to the guy's defense.
What you need to understand, MasterKey, is that I am a great fan of this music and the people who make it, and I AM VERY MUCH IN SUPPORT OF THIS MUSEUM. My words in defense of the Museum are proof. I have never objected to the dissemination of music on the web. On this board we have always allowed people to post links to web sites which contain game show music files -- we merely require that they link to a site containing the files and not directly to the files themselves. With regard to copyright issues and legalities, that is the concern of the copyright holders and web proprietors. I don't have a horse in that race. I'm not the FBI, ASCAP or BMI.
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THIS JUST IN!
I have just received a most gracious reply from the Museum proprietor. His reply was brief as he was pressed for time when he wrote it, but he says he prefers to remain anonymous for the time being. I will definitely follow up with him.
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Can we bury the hatchet now?
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Consider the Hatchet buried. I understand your point and I also understand that you support the music museum. I just wanted to be fair in clearing up any issues. I am also not a fan of selling copywritten works for profit. Being familiar with the party who sold a few cassettes on ebay, I can tell you that he was thrust into a sudden financial bind which caused a temporary lack of good judgement. I am not saying that it was the smartest thing to do. However if you were familiar with his situation at the time, you would probably understand a little better. So I hope you can also understand my coming to the defense of my other friend at the museum as well. He was upset at what he read here. After putting a lot of work into his site he was just hoping for a little more appreciation than what he got. I'm sure you can understand. I hope there are no hard feelings. Thank you for your time.
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There was never EVER any intent to imply that his efforts have not been appreciated...in fact, I myself said quite the opposite earlier in the thread, which probably got lost in all of the shiatstorm that followed. I enjoyed the video he posted a great deal.
(As for the party in question, sadly, that wouldn't be his only instance where he showed a lack of good judgement. But that's neither here nor there.)
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I hope you can also understand my coming to the defense of my other friend at the museum as well. He was upset at what he read here.
I want to reemphasize that it was not I who provoked the proprietor of the music museum.
You're new here, MasterKey. There is a whole backstory which I will fill you in on ... privately. Two things to know about this board: There are three Executive Producers, of whom two of us are co-founders. The other thing to know is that we do not discipline members merely for expressing their opinions. You were vociferous in expressing your position, yes, but that's allowed -- we will in no way hold it against you. On the contrary, we look forward to your continued participation. We draw the line when posts become abusive. All of this is codified in our rules which we call the "Eligibility Requirements" (it's a game show board, after all). A link to the E.R.s can be found under the picture of Bill Cullen. We like to think we are eminently even-handed in their application.
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OMG, lock this thread already. I think enough has been said.
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move on folks....nothing more to discuss.
/PLEASE lock this thread
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Good news for those playing along at home. In addition to the hatchet burying between Masterkey and Chris, the museum founder and one of our founders have exchanged healing e-mails. Both have told me that all is well. This forum remains vital and provocative, and our friend at the museum is not detered in the continuing pursuit of his excellent work.
And now everyone has a sense of what it felt like at times, behind the scenes, on the set of our favorite game show. It makes you want to take a shower! ;-)
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'175365\' date=\'Jan 17 2008, 11:14 PM\']
There was never EVER any intent to imply that his efforts have not been appreciated...in fact, I myself said quite the opposite earlier in the thread, which probably got lost in all of the shiatstorm that followed. I enjoyed the video he posted a great deal.
(As for the party in question, sadly, that wouldn't be his only instance where he showed a lack of good judgement. But that's neither here nor there.)
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Excuse me sir. I know the person who you claim to have a lack of good judgement. He's a friend who has better judgement than you give him credit for. From my short time here and judging by the posts I have already seen from you, I will just consider you an instigator and move along.
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the museum founder and one of our founders have exchanged healing e-mails. Both have told me that all is well. This forum remains vital and provocative, and our friend at the museum is not detered in the continuing pursuit of his excellent work.
That's right. I have sent the museum proprietor a follow-up email pledging the support of this board. I look forward to our members supporting him in any way they can. It is my intent to support him and maintain cordial relations between our board and his site.
And with that I am going to ring down the curtain on this act of our ongoing melodrama.