The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: TimK2003 on December 28, 2007, 10:11:33 PM
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I heard about a new 4-episode mini-series premiering in January on PBS, called "Pioneers of Television".
According to the PBS Website (http://\"http://www.pbs.org/aboutpbs/news/20070213_pbspioneers.html\"), the 4th episode is all about game shows (on Rocky Mountain PBS/Denver, it's slated to begin January 23rd with repeats over the week) :
Game Shows
This episode traces one of broadcasting's strongest genres – from its beginnings in radio through its heyday in the late 60s. Bob Barker talks about his earliest work and Merv Griffin details his creation of "Wheel of Fortune" and "Jeopardy." Monty Hall recounts his compelling rags-to-riches story and Betty White remembers her role as the first female emcee. Clips for this episode are wide-ranging and include Phyllis Diller's very first TV appearance – as a painfully shy contestant on Groucho Marx's "You Bet Your Life."
As with most PBS shows -- Check Your Local Listings!!!
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[quote name=\'TimK2003\' post=\'173357\' date=\'Dec 28 2007, 10:11 PM\']Betty White remembers her role as the first female emcee. [/quote]
It's probably going to be a very good special, but when a one-paragraph description has a factual error in it, it's enough to give one pause...
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'173359\' date=\'Dec 28 2007, 11:12 PM\']
[quote name=\'TimK2003\' post=\'173357\' date=\'Dec 28 2007, 10:11 PM\']Betty White remembers her role as the first female emcee. [/quote]
It's probably going to be a very good special, but when a one-paragraph description has a factual error in it, it's enough to give one pause...
[/quote]
I thought about that too, but I didn't think it was that big of a deal.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'173359\' date=\'Dec 28 2007, 08:12 PM\']
[quote name=\'TimK2003\' post=\'173357\' date=\'Dec 28 2007, 10:11 PM\']Betty White remembers her role as the first female emcee. [/quote]
It's probably going to be a very good special, but when a one-paragraph description has a factual error in it, it's enough to give one pause...
[/quote]
I'm just happy they didn't use "femcee."
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Two reviews of the first episode of this series are linked on tvtattle.com. One's a pan from Tom Shales (registration, so I'm not linking), which one could dismiss as typical crankypants from Shales except for this pan from the Denver Post's Joanne Ostrow:
http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_7851579 (http://\"http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_7851579\")
There is one line from the Shales review that is worth quoting: "The less you know about [the subjects] the more likely you'll enjoy, or at least tolerate, these 'Pioneers of Television' productions."
Caveat emptor.
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The first episode, on situation comedies, was pretty good, although it, too, contained some errors, such as stating that Dick Van Dyke was on Broadway in "Bye Bye Birdie" in 1963.
What bothered me about the episode was that the two of the longest running situation comedies of all time, "Ozzie and Harriet" and "My Three Sons," both of which started in the 1950's, weren't even mentioned!
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Update time, now that I've seen the show (Monday night here, with the note that I missed the first 10 minutes while coming home from work)
Better than I thought it would be - a quickie review of the history of the genre, interviews with the WGMC, Winkster, Bob Stewart, Monty Hall, Jack Narz, Bob Eubanks, Hugh Downs, Phyllis Diller.
And, of course, Betty White. (Note to correct earlier post - they do mention Arlene Francis being the first female host. In fact, I found few real errors, but then, I wasn't sitting there with a pad and pen.)
A little light on clips - there's an old WML here, some You Don't Say! there, some Paul Lynde zingers.
The second half of the show looks at what makes a good show - Stewart on "yelling at your TV" - and what makes a good host, noting that the only comedian who had really made a success of it was Groucho. And to wrap it up, they ask who was the best host....
should I spoil it?
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Having Bob Stewart on is all the reason I need to watch it.
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[quote name=\'Jay Temple\' post=\'175853\' date=\'Jan 22 2008, 09:34 AM\']
Having Bob Stewart on is all the reason I need to watch it.
[/quote]
I was actually going watch on Power of 10 on the same night and time slot that the Pioneers special was to have aired in New York City this upcoming Wednesday 1/23/2008, at first. But since not only is Bob Stewart is going to be on the show, so is Hugh Downs and Jack Narz...so I am definitely going to watch it too.
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[quote name=\'William A. Padron\' post=\'175859\' date=\'Jan 22 2008, 11:04 AM\']
[quote name=\'Jay Temple\' post=\'175853\' date=\'Jan 22 2008, 09:34 AM\']
Having Bob Stewart on is all the reason I need to watch it.
[/quote]
I was actually going watch on Power of 10 on the same night and time slot that the Pioneers special was to have aired in New York City this upcoming Wednesday 1/23/2008, at first. But since not only is Bob Stewart is going to be on the show, so is Hugh Downs and Jack Narz...so I am definitely going to watch it too.
[/quote]
The Pioneers series also used several clips of interviews with Jack Narz and Betty White a couple of weeks back, when they featured Late-Night Talk Shows. Jack is still holding up well based on the interviews I saw 2 weeks ago.
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I've watched all three of the previous installments of this show and I'm looking forward to the Game Show installment when it airs tonight. Those who are more scholarly about early television than I will no doubt find inaccuracies of fact and context, but overall one could do worse than watching "Pioneers of Television." My kids are enjoying it too and I think Jonathan Winters has become my son's latest Bad Influence (!).
My sense with regard to what is/isn't included is that it appears to depend on what they can/can't get cleared for inclusion in the series and who they can/can't get to appear on camera. And if a celebrity can do double duty, so much the better. Barbara Eden commented on both "I Love Lucy" and talk shows in two different episodes, for example. I think Betty White has been in all three episodes I've seen and it would be a given that she would be in the Game Show installment as well.
I was scratching my head in terms of "why wasn't 'x' included" in past installments but then I realized that this may have a lot to do with it. I wouldn't be surprised if this concept applied to many other documentary-type shows. As one wag commented, perhaps on The Daily Show, is there a black and white photo that Ken Burns has not yet panned over?
It was interesting to see Jack Narz commenting on Johnny Carson-- I didn't know that they were friends.
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[quote name=\'robwargo\' post=\'173980\' date=\'Jan 6 2008, 04:07 AM\']
What bothered me about the episode was that the two of the longest running situation comedies of all time, "Ozzie and Harriet" and "My Three Sons," both of which started in the 1950's, weren't even mentioned!
[/quote]
"My Three Sons" debuted in 1960.
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I watched it in HD, and the "Price Is Right" shots looked great. Don't know why they don't do the actual show that way--the competition on ABC and NBC at that hour is in HD.
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Doggoneit, WQED aired it tonight and I missed it.
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I thought it was a well done episode. They pretty much stuck with the heavy-hitter shows, but they did have a few clips I have never seen before.
I didn't mind the omission of the original themes for generic music, but the things that really stuck out in my mind were the 're-creations' of some of the announcer introductions and the 're-creations' of some of the video clips (there was at least one for the Dating Game and one for Newlywed Game).
Outside of that, it was a fun one to watch. Surprised to see a few of the interview-ees who have aged quite a bit over the last decade, but many of those who appeared on the episode were holding up really good.
For those who might have missed this last installment of the Pioneers of TV series, keep checking your local PBS website as they will probably be rerunning the Game Show week, as well as the other 3 weeks over the next few months. Or you can get the entire 4 hours for $25+S&H at the PBS website.
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[quote name=\'TimK2003\' post=\'176032\' date=\'Jan 23 2008, 10:13 PM\']
For those who might have missed this last installment of the Pioneers of TV series, keep checking your local PBS website as they will probably be rerunning the Game Show week, as well as the other 3 weeks over the next few months. Or you can get the entire 4 hours for $25+S&H at the PBS website.
[/quote]
It's also being repeated several times in the next week on PBS World, available as a digital cable channel in some areas and as a digital over-the-air subchannel in others.
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[quote name=\'TimK2003\' post=\'176032\' date=\'Jan 23 2008, 10:13 PM\']
I didn't mind the omission of the original themes for generic music, but the things that really stuck out in my mind were the 're-creations' of some of the announcer introductions and the 're-creations' of some of the video clips (there was at least one for the Dating Game and one for Newlywed Game).
[/quote]
That part of it was, uh, odd. The recreations were absoultely unnecessary.
I enjoyed the interviews, and my favorite story, believe it or not, was Bob getting top billing over the donuts. I laughed out loud about that. Made me remember what I liked so much about Bob from T o C, and how his last 10 years have been forgetful at best.
Sadly, though, of the four eps, this one was the worst. I didn't see any recreations done in the other eps, or did I miss them? (The late night ep was the best).
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I winced once and I cringed once...
WINCE: "Steven Hatos"
CRINGE: Bob Stewart apparently created "What's My Line?" I didn't see that in Gil Fates' book.
Beyond those two foibles, I thought it was outstanding. It was as much coverage as a commercial free hour can accomplish. I felt that a few shows that ignored or brushed over, but if one hour is all you have to give, PBS gave all they could. It really does amaze you to think how much time needs to be devoted to a thorough, accurate portrait of the genre.
Favorite story: Jack Narz & Tom Kennedy's first-person accounts of learning that "Dotto" was rigged. I have "The American Experience" documentary about the scandals from 1992, and I always thought it was weird that they interviewed Jack for it, they talked about "Dotto" and they didn't have Jack talking about that revelation. That was finally taken care of tonight.
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[quote name=\'Adam Nedeff\' post=\'176053\' date=\'Jan 23 2008, 09:19 PM\']
Favorite story: Jack Narz & Tom Kennedy's first-person accounts of learning that "Dotto" was rigged. I have "The American Experience" documentary about the scandals from 1992, and I always thought it was weird that they interviewed Jack for it, they talked about "Dotto" and they didn't have Jack talking about that revelation. That was finally taken care of tonight.
[/quote]
Tidge OT: Anyone know if "The American Experience" show from '92 was ever released on DVD?
Josh
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[quote name=\'TimK2003\' post=\'176032\' date=\'Jan 23 2008, 09:13 PM\']
many of those who appeared on the episode were holding up really good.
[/quote]Monty especially looked to me as if he could immediately host a better version of LMaD than the junk versions forced upon us in recent years.
And I had forgotten that he hosted Twenty-One. Since the rigging revelations had not yet occurred when he became the host, why'd Jack Barry leave?
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[quote name=\'rigsby\' post=\'176094\' date=\'Jan 24 2008, 10:17 AM\']
[quote name=\'TimK2003\' post=\'176032\' date=\'Jan 23 2008, 09:13 PM\']
many of those who appeared on the episode were holding up really good.
[/quote]Monty especially looked to me as if he could immediately host a better version of LMaD than the junk versions forced upon us in recent years.
[/quote]
I seem to remember he only hosted during the summer of 1958, and I had always assumed he was subbing for a vacationing Jack ala Garry Moore or Bud Collyer.
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I thought it was pretty good-you could tell what was a recreation though. Didn't know Dick Van Dyke was in the running for the original TPIR actually..
...and whoever built that wheel they used must have put a private joke on there- one of the spaces for some reason was $157....
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[quote name=\'weaklink75\' post=\'176096\' date=\'Jan 24 2008, 09:33 AM\']
...and whoever built that wheel they used must have put a private joke on there- one of the spaces for some reason was $157....
[/quote]
...and don't forget that big, shiny $1,100 space on the wheel.
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Did you notice ... recreations were used only for the Sony shows. There was only one actual Sony clip. How expensive must the clips be if it was cheaper to hire actors and build a set? Odd.
I also believe there was not a single mention of Match Game, yet we had clips of two different episodes of You Don't Say, including one which I believe is non-circulating. I would presume that would have to be because of the availability of Tom Kennedy as opposed to the non-availability of Gene Rayburn. If you saw the Variety episode last week, they had a similar instance where the mostly-forgotten Tony Orlando and Dawn hour got some serious screen time while the much more culturally-significant Sonny and Cher got a passing mention. Tony Orlando was a talking head, Cher was not. Sonny was not available.
--Mike
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I thought this special was decent - it makes me wish I had seen the others. I'll keep checking the listings for repeats!
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I thought it was a terrific documentary, and every one was used wonderfully and a learning piece as well (Van Dyke in the Running, Monty hosting 21) but one that I say couldn't be summed up in an hour to do it justice. With them doing a Pioneers of Television 4 hour documentary, there should be a 4 hour documentary on the evolution of the different types of game shows, with the relationship, word, trivia and games of chance as well as panel covered in many parts along with some of the ones that were part of it much like this episode was. Bill Cullen was given 2 minutes as to why he was the best, I could imagine it being longer, or maybe it went by too quickly that the best compliment to a very good documentary is that a viewer wishes it would go on longer after it is done.
I even wonder what happened to Tom Kennedy with the cast on his arm as well.
All around, a solid program but one I'd love to see an expansion of sometime in the future!
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On balance, I enjoyed it. I did think the re-creations were a bit odd. I also wondered what the problem was with not getting a "real" clip from Wheel of Fortune or Jeopardy was, but I guess it had to do with $ony.
I think that as with the other three installments, the emphasis seemed to be on who was available to be interviewed-- almost as if the show was built around that. So no Gene Rayburn, for example. But no matter, an enjoyable hour.
Some of the Hollywood Squares clips were in an "uncensored" video that I just saw on YouTube, so that was kind of interesting.
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Most likely, the quiz scandals "American Experience" program may not ever make it on DVD, due to having to reclear everything.
And Shop PBS at pbs.org doesn't show the program as being available. You may want to check out libraries, who may still have a VHS copy, if the program that exclusively placed tapes of PBS programs in libraries was still going back then. It's not the DVD, but it's close enough at this time.
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The recreations were annoying.
The highlight was the Florence Henderson HS clip. I had just seen the clip on YouTube a week or so...but the George Gobel smoking shot wasn't...and was priceless!
I think if Hallmark or American Life channel wants to give GSN a run for the money (so to speak)...I'd say go get the HS, G-T and the ABC NG/DG/Hall-Hatos programs combo and air them at the times they aired...and a replay at night.
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If you have it, check the PBS HD channel. They reran it this afternoon in glorius HD!
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Finally saw it tonight. Gawd, the recreations were annoying, but apparently whatever budget these people had was not being used to secure clearances for clips. Virtually all the moving video was provided by Shokus and presumably the photos were all Mr. Wostbrock's doing. No Fremantle, no Sony as far as I could tell, with the occasional odd exception, including a brief and not particularly funny Newlywed clip and the closing moments from Password '75.
Interviews were nice, and any show that'll stop and give a nod to Bill automatically scores points, even if all the video they showed was TPIR and, of all things, the Quick as a Flash pilot. My favorite was Dick Van Dyke and his story about being asked to host TPIR. The mind boggles at how different television history might be today if that had panned out.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'176177\' date=\'Jan 24 2008, 08:03 PM\']My favorite was Dick Van Dyke and his story about being asked to host TPIR. The mind boggles at how different television history might be today if that had panned out.[/quote]Well, you'd probably need a different picture at the upper left...
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'176177\' date=\'Jan 24 2008, 09:03 PM\']
My favorite was Dick Van Dyke and his story about being asked to host TPIR. The mind boggles at how different television history might be today if that had panned out.
[/quote]
The story of Dick Van Dyke as a possible host for Price may be been surprising to most of the viewers watching that PBS documentary, but I originally read that account in Jefferson Graham's 1987 book Come On Down!: The TV Game Show Book. Van Dyke told the same story in the book as in the special, which had a photo from Wostbrock's collection a game show he did host called Laugh Line, but seen doctored with a Price logo taped over it.
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I saw Pat Harrington listed in the credits, but didn't seem him anywhere in the special.
Did I miss something?
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Near as I can tell, they did a single set of credits covering all four installments and ran it at the end of every installment.
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I DVR'ed all four episodes and watched three thus far. The Game Show segment was much better than the other 2 I've seen. It was nice to see the Bill Cullen segment near the end. I kind of looked past the recreations, bujt the interviews were quite interesting. As with all shows of this type, They leave you wanting more..Pretty good effort overall..
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[quote name=\'cmjb13\' post=\'176467\' date=\'Jan 28 2008, 01:43 PM\']
I saw Pat Harrington listed in the credits, but didn't seem him anywhere in the special.
Did I miss something?
[/quote]
Well, Pat did on that New Year's "Rhyme and Reason" show.
EUBANKS: "Pat, happy new year."
(No response from Harrington, Jr.)
EUBANKS: "Pat, happy new year."
(No response from Harrington, Jr.)
EUBANKS: "Pat, happy new year."
(No response from Harrington, Jr.)
Actually, unless they were doing a segment on The Inspector, I think Pat was in the talk shows segment, having appeared as part of the stock company on Steve Allen's show along with Bill Dana, Louis Nye, Tom Poston, Gabe Dell and the rest of those cats.
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[quote name=\'cmjb13\' post=\'176467\' date=\'Jan 28 2008, 02:43 PM\']
I saw Pat Harrington listed in the credits, but didn't seem him anywhere in the special.
Did I miss something?
[/quote]
I only saw him interviewed on camera for the 2nd installment, when the topic was late-night talk shows.
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http://www.shoppbs.org/product/index.jsp?productId=2965540 (http://\"http://www.shoppbs.org/product/index.jsp?productId=2965540\")
For those who missed...and have money to spend.
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[quote name=\'tvwxman\' post=\'176557\' date=\'Jan 29 2008, 08:43 AM\']
http://www.shoppbs.org/product/index.jsp?productId=2965540 (http://\"http://www.shoppbs.org/product/index.jsp?productId=2965540\")
For those who missed...and have money to spend.[/quote]
It's actually available other places, almost all of which are going to be less expensive than the PBS site. Though oddly, it was offered by Amazon, and now the listing is inexplicably gone.
Anyway, it's $30 with shipping from PBS. There's a dealer selling copies on Ebay where you can get it for $24. (My regular 'bill cullen' search turned up three, all from the same dealer.) If your neighborhood bookseller stocks PBS programs, I think the commercial retail is only $20.
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MSRP is $24.99. The Bill Cullen portion is in its own chapter so it can be played on a loop if so desired. It's also just on one disc, so it may not be all that crystal clear.
--Mike
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'176566\' date=\'Jan 29 2008, 10:32 AM\']
Anyway, it's $30 with shipping from PBS. There's a dealer selling copies on Ebay where you can get it for $24. (My regular 'bill cullen' search turned up three, all from the same dealer.) If your neighborhood bookseller stocks PBS programs, I think the commercial retail is only $20.
[/quote]
I just purchased my DVD copy of the PBS special today (Tuesday 1/29/2008) at a local retail outlet here in Manhattan, J&R Music World on Park Row, for their selling price of $21.99 plus tax. The only extra special features on this DVD as listed on the package are "extended interviews with the 'Pioneers'", and it is presented in the "widescreen" format (just like on A&E's Biography: TV Game Shows as seen last year).
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[quote name=\'William A. Padron\' post=\'176587\' date=\'Jan 29 2008, 11:22 AM\']
and it is presented in the "widescreen" format (just like on A&E's Biography: TV Game Shows as seen last year).
[/quote]
That's not special to the DVD, necessarily. I enjoyed it in Glorious Hi-Def(tm) over the weekend.