The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: PYLW on August 03, 2007, 11:34:57 AM
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I've always wondered about this, who owns the Ralph Andrews library? GSN? Sony? Ralph himself? I've always wondered, because I really like You Don't Say! and Celebrity Sweepstakes, and have wondered if GSN has ever contacted the holder of the library to air whatever is left of both series (and more), which may be a lot (I'm sure the primetime run of YDS HAS to exist...and CS had some syndicated runs, correct?). Thanks. Just something that's been bugging me...
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I'd love to see Celebrity Sweepstakes again, and hope more episodes exist other than just the pilot and finale; and I may be in the minority, but I actually liked the mid-70s verison of You Don't Say!
GSN certainly doesn't own it. Speculation is that Ralph still owns it, but whether GSN would ever be interested in airing anything from it is questionable. While Celebrity Sweepstakes was a moderate hit, how many people remember it today? And since You Don't Say hasn't had a lengthy run since the '60s, it's another one that has probably faded from many people's memory; a lot more people probably remember Password over that.
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From what I understand, since Desilu co-produced the 60's YDS with Ralph Andrews Productions, that version rests with CBS, as does the 70's syndie run (since Viacom handled it).
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'159478\' date=\'Aug 3 2007, 12:02 PM\']
GSN certainly doesn't own it. Speculation is that Ralph still owns it, but whether GSN would ever be interested in airing anything from it is questionable.[/quote]
Lingo anyone?
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Lingo anyone?
Good point, but I think the original poster was talking about the original series being run rather than remakes.
I know it was reported that Celebrity Sweepstakes was considered for a revival sometime in the '90s. Do you think a show like that would fly today? Seeing how most new games are being made these days, it would probably pale in comparison to the original series anyway...
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In this case, it would be the original Lingo, not a remake either.
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Doesn't Burt Sugarman own "Sweepstakes"???
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'159487\' date=\'Aug 3 2007, 01:34 PM\']
I know it was reported that Celebrity Sweepstakes was considered for a revival sometime in the '90s. Do you think a show like that would fly today? Seeing how most new games are being made these days, it would probably pale in comparison to the original series anyway...
[/quote]
The best chance a remake of CS would have had was when Bergeron's HSq was still around. Now that there is no active celebrity game show, it would be a much harder sell.
BTW, Didn't NBC go with Sweepstakes to compliment Marshall's Squares (and weren't they back to back at one point on the schedule?), since they both were of similar caliber (players pick celebs, celebs give gag lines with actual answers, players hope they picked right answer with right star, etc...)
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'159478\' date=\'Aug 3 2007, 12:02 PM\']
I'd love to see Celebrity Sweepstakes again, and hope more episodes exist other than just the pilot and finale; and I may be in the minority, but I actually liked the mid-70s verison of You Don't Say![/quote]
I liked the 70s version as well. But then again, I liked Password All-Stars, so I was obviously very easy to please in the mid-70s.
Still, if GSN couldn't drum up interest in classic episodes of Hollywood Squares, there's precious little chance that they'd be interested in a couple of celebrity games with even less star power.
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[quote name=\'TimK2003\' post=\'159498\' date=\'Aug 3 2007, 02:48 PM\']
BTW, Didn't NBC go with Sweepstakes to compliment Marshall's Squares (and weren't they back to back at one point on the schedule?), since they both were of similar caliber (players pick celebs, celebs give gag lines with actual answers, players hope they picked right answer with right star, etc...)
[/quote]
As far as I can find here (http://\"http://www.curtalliaume.com/nbc_day.html\"), they were never back-to-back. They sound like they would have been, I will say that, but, alas, they were not.
Oddly enough, HSQ was on in its 11:30 AM time slot from the day it premiered (10/17/1966) until the day Celebrity Sweepstakes was canceled (10/1/1976), then it moved to back an hour to 10:30 AM... CS' vacated time slot. Hmm.
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[quote name=\'Chief-O\' post=\'159497\' date=\'Aug 3 2007, 11:41 AM\']
Doesn't Burt Sugarman own "Sweepstakes"???
[/quote]
The short answer is that NBC owned Celebrity Sweepstakes and seeing no need to save tapes of old game shows, erased and reused them, except for the last show and one other, I believe.
For those who like more details, here's my story: I've always liked game and quiz shows, from Dr. IQ on the radio to Split Second, for which I'd come home for lunch to watch. Everyone told me that I should go on. One day in 1976 my next door neighbor who knew someone or other said that she was going to try out for a game show, and would I like to come along. It was a return of You Don't Say developed at Warner Bros. in Burbank. I think on my 4th visit, the contestant coordinator read lists of names of those they wanted to stay, and the rest could leave, thank you very much. It turned out that every name was read except for two people; I was one. I never felt lower in my life driving home.
About two months later I got a phone call from a Ralph Andrews staffer saying that they just bought Celebrity Sweepstakes back from Bert Sugarman, NBC is trying to pump the ratings, and they need contestants right now, and could I be at the NBC studios in a couple of days. They said that while the celebrities had been fed answers before, that was going to stop. So, for example, Carol Wayne who had come across as a bimbo who really is smart, would now be just a bimbo—except for showbiz questions.
I went on the second "day." The celebrities were Bill Cullen, Alan Sues, Norm Crosby, Carol Wayne, Elaine Joyce and Pat Carroll. The only questions I remember was that Pat didn't know that a hummingbird is the only bird that can fly backwards, and that Elaine misspelled "mayonnaise." I bet on Bill Cullen the most and he essentially won me $25,000. I never felt higher in my life driving home!
Some weeks later, my family was watching my appearance, and about 20 minutes into the show the telephone rang. It was Irene who screamed, "Clanky, you can't possibly win—you're too far behind!" I said, "Just watch the show!" and hung up. It really was an exciting come-from-behind win. This was the first of my 5 game show appearances.
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[quote name=\'clanky06\' post=\'159542\' date=\'Aug 4 2007, 01:48 AM\']
[quote name=\'Chief-O\' post=\'159497\' date=\'Aug 3 2007, 11:41 AM\']
Doesn't Burt Sugarman own "Sweepstakes"???
[/quote]
This was the first of my 5 game show appearances.
[/quote]
Welcome to the group Clanky! I definitely would like to hear more of your game show experiences.
Now, as a *real* test to us game show buffs, can we name the other 4 shows on which he appeared?
I'll take "Tic Tac Dough", since I have one of your appearances in my collection... :)
Matt
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[quote name=\'mcsittel\' post=\'159556\' date=\'Aug 4 2007, 07:26 AM\']
[quote name=\'clanky06\' post=\'159542\' date=\'Aug 4 2007, 01:48 AM\']
[quote name=\'Chief-O\' post=\'159497\' date=\'Aug 3 2007, 11:41 AM\']
Doesn't Burt Sugarman own "Sweepstakes"???
[/quote]
This was the first of my 5 game show appearances.
[/quote]
Welcome to the group Clanky! I definitely would like to hear more of your game show experiences.
Now, as a *real* test to us game show buffs, can we name the other 4 shows on which he appeared?
I'll take "Tic Tac Dough", since I have one of your appearances in my collection... :)
Matt
[/quote]
Thank you Matt—yes, Tic Tac Dough was another of my game show appearances. In fact, I was on it twice, in 1979 before the Thom McKee "run," then due to a question having Copernicus' birth off by a hundred years, I returned in 1980 after Thom. I did see Thom in the "green room" while he was still on, and he remarked, "I think they want me off the show." Maybe my more detailed Tic Tac Dough and Dan Enright reminiscences should go in another thread. I was at the same table as Thom at last year's GSC luncheon, and chatted with him again this year.
I doubt that anyone would get my second game show in 1977. Hint: the principal producer once was part of a singing group, all from Hollywood High School, and the creator-producer and I were reunited at this year's Game Show Congress.
My fifth Game Show appearance was in 1993—and there are a lot of behind-the-scenes anecdotes and stories about this one!
For the first two, I went on as "Clarence," my drivers license name, but used my nickname "Clanky" on the last three.
Yes, I have fond memories of all my game show experiences. I am grateful for the opportunities for just an ordinary guy to momentarily step up to the national stage for his "15 minutes of fame" (a little more, in my case). It was challenging, fun and rewarding!
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I vaguely remember a Clanky on Scrabble... was that you?
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Welcome Clanky or Clarence :-), always great to read a contestant's stories.
I'll guess that the 1993 show was "Scrabble"?
EDIT: HYHYBT mentioned it as well.
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You're right, it was Scrabble. NBC conned Reg Grundy Productions to produce two game shows for the price of one to hold a "spot" until what they really cared about was ready (the other show was Scattergories, hosted by Dick Clark.) It truly was a game show from hades—there were constant equipment breakdowns, and the contestant pool cooled their heels for a whole day, only to be told to come back tomorrow. When I finally got on Chuck said at one point, "I don't feel right calling a grown man 'Clanky'."
Can anyone guess game show #2? One question I had was "It's Flanagan Goose Time."
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[quote name=\'HYHYBT\' post=\'159582\' date=\'Aug 4 2007, 01:09 PM\']
I vaguely remember a Clanky on Scrabble... was that you?
[/quote]
You've got him confused with the other Clanky who appeared on Scrabble :-P
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To return to the top topic:
The Ralph Andrews show formats are owned by a guy named Mark Phillips, who has done with them the following: A short-lived revival of "It Takes Two" for the Family Channel in the last days of Pat Robertson's ownership, when Tony Thomopoulos was programming an original game show block in the afternoon, and a revival of the non-game show "Lie Detector" a few years ago for Ion when it was still Pax.
The Andrews formats Phillips doesn't own are "Lingo," owned by the Dutch company that created it, "Liars Club," which he sold off to Gene Autry's Golden West during the Bill Armstrong/Allen Ludden run of the show and has bounced to other companies, and perhaps "Celebrity Sweepstakes," because of that format's part-ownership.
Desliu's descendants only own what exists of the 60s run of "YDS!" and perhaps the late 70s syndicated run that Viacom handled--Andrews owned the format himself and Phillips is probably sitting on it.
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Incidentally, speaking of Ralph Andrews, what ever became of the "age discrimination" lawsuit he filed against Dick Clark?
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[quote name=\'uncamark\' post=\'159688\' date=\'Aug 5 2007, 04:12 PM\']
To return to the top topic:
The Ralph Andrews show formats are owned by a guy named Mark Phillips, who has done with them the following: A short-lived revival of "It Takes Two" for the Family Channel in the last days of Pat Robertson's ownership, when Tony Thomopoulos was programming an original game show block in the afternoon, and a revival of the non-game show "Lie Detector" a few years ago for Ion when it was still Pax.
The Andrews formats Phillips doesn't own are "Lingo," owned by the Dutch company that created it, "Liars Club," which he sold off to Gene Autry's Golden West during the Bill Armstrong/Allen Ludden run of the show and has bounced to other companies, and perhaps "Celebrity Sweepstakes," because of that format's part-ownership.
Desliu's descendants only own what exists of the 60s run of "YDS!" and perhaps the late 70s syndicated run that Viacom handled--Andrews owned the format himself and Phillips is probably sitting on it.
[/quote]
Let's be clear on something, Mark, mainly for the younger folks who have no clue....
Andrews created "Lingo" in 1987, but not the Dutch format being used by Gurin. The question becomes who owns the original episodes. Is it Phillips, Andrews, the Dutch company or another one we haven't heard yet?
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I wonder if Burt Rosen still has a stake in the shows. He syndicated the original Lingo, Yahtzee and the first prime access version of Celeb. Sweeps in 74-75 (20thCent-Fox handled the 76-77 version).
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'159625\' date=\'Aug 4 2007, 11:00 PM\']
[quote name=\'HYHYBT\' post=\'159582\' date=\'Aug 4 2007, 01:09 PM\']
I vaguely remember a Clanky on Scrabble... was that you?
[/quote]
You've got him confused with the other Clanky who appeared on Scrabble :-P
[/quote]
Be careful, Chris. Someone might believe you.
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[quote name=\'clanky06\' post=\'159594\' date=\'Aug 4 2007, 05:24 PM\']
You're right, it was Scrabble. NBC conned Reg Grundy Productions to produce two game shows for the price of one to hold a "spot" until what they really cared about was ready (the other show was Scattergories, hosted by Dick Clark.) It truly was a game show from hades—there were constant equipment breakdowns, and the contestant pool cooled their heels for a whole day, only to be told to come back tomorrow. When I finally got on Chuck said at one point, "I don't feel right calling a grown man 'Clanky'."
Can anyone guess game show #2? One question I had was "It's Flanagan Goose Time."
[/quote]
Knockout possibly? Didn't they have a round where you had to figure out what three words had in common (obviously Father here)?
Greg
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It's Flanagan Goose Time...the only thing I can think of is "Shoot For the Stars" or "Double Talk", which were more or less the same game, in terms of format.
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[quote name=\'snowpeck\' post=\'159819\' date=\'Aug 6 2007, 09:25 PM\']
Knockout possibly? Didn't they have a round where you had to figure out what three words had in common (obviously Father here)
[/quote]
I dunno if you're right or not, but what a great guess!
I miss "Knockout". Seriously. Underrated, underappreciated show IMHO.
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[quote name=\'snowpeck\' post=\'159819\' date=\'Aug 6 2007, 06:25 PM\']
[quote name=\'clanky06\' post=\'159594\' date=\'Aug 4 2007, 05:24 PM\']
You're right, it was Scrabble. NBC conned Reg Grundy Productions to produce two game shows for the price of one to hold a "spot" until what they really cared about was ready (the other show was Scattergories, hosted by Dick Clark.) It truly was a game show from hades—there were constant equipment breakdowns, and the contestant pool cooled their heels for a whole day, only to be told to come back tomorrow. When I finally got on Chuck said at one point, "I don't feel right calling a grown man 'Clanky'."
Can anyone guess game show #2? One question I had was "It's Flanagan Goose Time."
[/quote]
Knockout possibly? Didn't they have a round where you had to figure out what three words had in common (obviously Father here)?
Greg
[/quote]
You got it—it was Knockout, based on the "IQ Test" question "Which of these four things doesn't belong and why?" Bruce Belland was producer, and he was a member of the Four Preps, famous for the song "23 Miles," about Catalina Island. Another of the group was Glen A. Larson, who produced a bunch of TV shows in the 70's. I asked Bruce, "What happened to the 'J'?" and he said, "How did you know that?" Bjelland is the original Norwegian name. I was trying to remember the contestant coordinator's name, Roberta something I thought, but Gary Edwards immediately came up with "Roberta Simons" at last year's GSC. Mark Maxwell-Smith was the creator-producer-writer for the show and it was great to see him again at this year's GSC. When I told him I had been a contestant on Knockout his eyes lit up and he gave me a big hug!
Roberta believed in "networking," and through me my sister Karen, brother-in-law Terry Kathan, and Hughes Aircraft Co. co-worker Dave Shingledecker were all later contestants. Near the end of the run, they made a pilot of a possible celebrity-partner version, and Terry and I played the contestants and Geoff Edwards and Jo Anne Worley were the celebrities. I saw Geoff at this year's GSC and he remembered the pilot—some 30 years ago!
One more Knockout anecdote. After I had won $25,000 on Celebrity Sweepstakes and $10,000 on Knockout, the company newspaper, the HughesNews, did a feature article on me. The paper came out before the episode aired, and when it did, I got a company phone call from Paula Witt, who had been on the show with me. How about that—small world! It turned out we knew a lot of the same people, although we hadn't met before.
Please forgive me for wandering off-topic, but this illustrates what it's like being a contestant and spending a lot of time talking to other contestants, contestant coordinators, and network S&P people! Our conversations wander all over the place, but usually about game shows.
Paula and I became game show buddies. Once I tried out for Whew! with the procedings conducted by Jay Wolpert. Now Mark Maxwell-Smith was a Type-A bundle-of-energy kind of guy, but Jay had him beat by a mile with his off-the-wall out-of-control antics! I didn't make it as a contestant, but later I thought about what they were looking for, and told all this to Paula. The upshot was that Paula won $25,000!
OK, one more thing and I'm through—for now. At the supper table with my wife and kids, someone would say "Give us a 'Knockout,' Daddy." And I would pose something like "Plate, Towel, Phone and Boy." Ah, such good game show memories!
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Nice story. Do you have your episode on tape? There's only one episode out there in tradingland..... I'm wondering if Clanky can double that.
/I like this guy.
//I'd rather have one good post from him than 10 from so many others.
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[quote name=\'tvwxman\' post=\'159841\' date=\'Aug 7 2007, 05:31 AM\']
Nice story. Do you have your episode on tape? There's only one episode out there in tradingland..... I'm wondering if Clanky can double that.
/I like this guy.
//I'd rather have one good post from him than 10 from so many others.
[/quote]
No, unfortunately, I don't have a tape of my appearance. 1977 was before VHS and Betamax home recorders. Besides the big network Ampex 1" tape machines (or 2"?) there were Sony U-Matic ¾" industrial recorders, and it would really be a fluke if any more Knockout episodes were recorded. I should have asked Gary Edwards at GSC if the production company had any tapes, but I doubt that they did.
Thanks for your kind words. I am very fortunate to have experienced the game show situations that I did. I am happy to share them with fellow enthusiasts—maybe so that some can vicariously relive them with me. I'll most likely separate them into several threads so this one doesn't get too far out of control!
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[quote name=\'clanky06\' post=\'159826\' date=\'Aug 6 2007, 11:05 PM\']
[quote name=\'snowpeck\' post=\'159819\' date=\'Aug 6 2007, 06:25 PM\']
[quote name=\'clanky06\' post=\'159594\' date=\'Aug 4 2007, 05:24 PM\']
You're right, it was Scrabble. NBC conned Reg Grundy Productions to produce two game shows for the price of one to hold a "spot" until what they really cared about was ready (the other show was Scattergories, hosted by Dick Clark.) It truly was a game show from hades—there were constant equipment breakdowns, and the contestant pool cooled their heels for a whole day, only to be told to come back tomorrow. When I finally got on Chuck said at one point, "I don't feel right calling a grown man 'Clanky'."
Can anyone guess game show #2? One question I had was "It's Flanagan Goose Time."
[/quote]
Knockout possibly? Didn't they have a round where you had to figure out what three words had in common (obviously Father here)?
Greg
[/quote]
You got it—it was Knockout, based on the "IQ Test" question "Which of these four things doesn't belong and why?" Bruce Belland was producer, and he was a member of the Four Preps, famous for the song "23 Miles," about Catalina Island. Another of the group was Glen A. Larson, who produced a bunch of TV shows in the 70's. I asked Bruce, "What happened to the 'J'?" and he said, "How did you know that?" Bjelland is the original Norwegian name. I was trying to remember the contestant coordinator's name, Roberta something I thought, but Gary Edwards immediately came up with "Roberta Simons" at last year's GSC. Mark Maxwell-Smith was the creator-producer-writer for the show and it was great to see him again at this year's GSC. When I told him I had been a contestant on Knockout his eyes lit up and he gave me a big hug!
Roberta believed in "networking," and through me my sister Karen, brother-in-law Terry Kathan, and Hughes Aircraft Co. co-worker Dave Shingledecker were all later contestants. Near the end of the run, they made a pilot of a possible celebrity-partner version, and Terry and I played the contestants and Geoff Edwards and Jo Anne Worley were the celebrities. I saw Geoff at this year's GSC and he remembered the pilot—some 30 years ago!
One more Knockout anecdote. After I had won $25,000 on Celebrity Sweepstakes and $10,000 on Knockout, the company newspaper, the HughesNews, did a feature article on me. The paper came out before the episode aired, and when it did, I got a company phone call from Paula Witt, who had been on the show with me. How about that—small world! It turned out we knew a lot of the same people, although we hadn't met before.
Please forgive me for wandering off-topic, but this illustrates what it's like being a contestant and spending a lot of time talking to other contestants, contestant coordinators, and network S&P people! Our conversations wander all over the place, but usually about game shows.
Paula and I became game show buddies. Once I tried out for Whew! with the procedings conducted by Jay Wolpert. Now Mark Maxwell-Smith was a Type-A bundle-of-energy kind of guy, but Jay had him beat by a mile with his off-the-wall out-of-control antics! I didn't make it as a contestant, but later I thought about what they were looking for, and told all this to Paula. The upshot was that Paula won $25,000!
OK, one more thing and I'm through—for now. At the supper table with my wife and kids, someone would say "Give us a 'Knockout,' Daddy." And I would pose something like "Plate, Towel, Phone and Boy." Ah, such good game show memories!
[/quote]
The song you mentioned is actually called "26 Miles".
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No wonder I was confused the last time I swam out to it!
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[quote name=\'mbclev\' post=\'159956\' date=\'Aug 8 2007, 01:16 AM\']
The song you mentioned is actually called "26 Miles".
[/quote]
Please to be learning proper quoting. 'Twould be much appreciated.
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[quote name=\'SRIV94\' post=\'159991\' date=\'Aug 8 2007, 02:21 PM\']
Please to be learning proper quoting. 'Twould be much appreciated.[/quote]
Specifically, the concept of "less is more." It's not necessary to quote an entire, long post to make a brief comment about one small part of it. It's hard for everyone else to follow your point.
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Thanks for your kind words. I am very fortunate to have experienced the game show situations that I did. I am happy to share them with fellow enthusiasts—maybe so that some can vicariously relive them with me. I'll most likely separate them into several threads so this one doesn't get too far out of control!
Yes, please. I'll look forward to reading more about your experiences.
Too bad about not having the tapes...us collectors are dying for more episodes of shows like Knockout and Celebrity Sweepstakes! :)
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Here's one more little tidbit. If you go to Page O'Clips (http://\"http://www.pageoclips.com\") and type in Celebrity in the Search Clip window, click on the orange rectangle, you will bring up 5 Celebrity Sweepstakes clips. Watch the rightmost clip. After the introductions, there is an audience shot. The lady with short brown hair, white collar and top with horizontal stripes was my wife Debbie.
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'159487\' date=\'Aug 3 2007, 12:34 PM\']
I know it was reported that Celebrity Sweepstakes was considered for a revival sometime in the '90s. Do you think a show like that would fly today? Seeing how most new games are being made these days, it would probably pale in comparison to the original series anyway...
[/quote]
That was me. Within a period of six months in 2000, the following people got in touch with me:
Jim MacKrell, to correct a bunch of things on the page -- real nice guy;
Burt Sugarman (or a member of his staff), to see if I knew where Ralph Andrews was
Ralph Andrews, to add a couple of notes as well, whereupon I told him that Burt Sugarman was trying to find him
At this point, Hollywood Squares was doing pretty well, so a revival made sense. Clearly, it doesn't now.