The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: chris319 on July 23, 2007, 08:08:45 PM
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Pick 12 (!) pricing games for Drew to learn first:
1. Switch?
2. P!inko
3. One Right Price/Double Prices
4. Range Game
5. Grocery Game
6. Any Number
7. Money Game
8. Lucky Seven
9. Danger Price
10. Most Expensive
11. Cliffhangers
12. Five Price Tags
Your ideas?
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'158346\' date=\'Jul 23 2007, 05:08 PM\']
Pick 12 (!) pricing games for Drew to learn first:
[/quote]
I'm not sure what I would pick, but I think he's going to need to know more than one cash game out of the gate, seeing as they play one per show, and contrary to what some people might like they can't play Plinko every day.
I question if 12 is a realistic starting point. To get through that first week he's gonna need at least 15 or 20.
If I DID have to pick 12, though, looking at your list, I think I'd yank Grocery Game (which with their current rules and inflation has really been rendered irrelevant) and replace it with either Grand Game or It's In The Bag.
I see exactly two turntable games there, too. Yank Danger Price and throw Clock Game in there.
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Obviously Any Number will be No 1.
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Who says he needs to learn any at all? For all we know, he may have good working knowledge of the games and watch the show himself.
If I'm wrong, please correct me.
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[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'158353\' date=\'Jul 23 2007, 08:24 PM\']
Who says he needs to learn any at all? For all we know, he may have good working knowledge of the games and watch the show himself.
If I'm wrong, please correct me.
[/quote]
Do you really think that merely watching the show is going to give him enough knowledge of all of the games to run them day to day? Think about it.
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[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'158353\' date=\'Jul 23 2007, 05:24 PM\']
Who says he needs to learn any at all? For all we know, he may have good working knowledge of the games and watch the show himself.
[/quote]
That may be. But that tells him not one single thing about how to host them in such a way that the television cameras get their shots and such.
It's a little more complicated a process than you think.
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I would add Bonus Game and Punchboard. At least the first one is a quick filler game.
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[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'158353\' date=\'Jul 23 2007, 08:24 PM\']
Who says he needs to learn any at all? For all we know, he may have good working knowledge of the games and watch the show himself.
If I'm wrong, please correct me.
[/quote]
Not saying you're wrong, but you're talking 100 games. Even if he does watch everyday, that's a lot to ask right off the bat.
I say give him 25 or 30, enough to cover the first week, and rotate those games. Play some of the more popular games (i.e. Plinko, Lucky Seven), and throw in your quickie games (Double Prices, Switch). When he starts getting those down-pat, throw in a few more.
How many games did the show start off with in 1972, and how many did the Kennedy/Davidson versions use?
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'158359\' date=\'Jul 23 2007, 07:51 PM\']
How many games did the show start off with in 1972[/quote]
Five: Grocery Game, Any Number, Double Prices, Bullseye I, and Bonus Game.
and how many did the Kennedy [version use?]
According to Adam Nedeff's page, 27. I'm not sure how many games were in the rotation at that time, but omissions I saw included Check-Out, Give/Keep, and Card Game.
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What are they going to rename Barker's Markers and Barker's Bargain Bar?
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Twelve games fills up two shows without repetition. Correct me if I'm wrong, but each show needs two car games, one fee item game, and one quickie game.
OK, so how about this lineup?
Show #1:
Lucky Seven
Range Game
P!inko
Switch?
Any Number
Danger Price
Show #2:
Money Game
Cliffhangers
Most Expensive
One Right Price/Double Prices
One Away
Hi-Lo
For starters you want to give him games that are easy for the emcee. Bonus Game, Race Game, Five Price Tags involve too much patter.
And yes, Drew will have to learn the language and the cues. He will need to rehearse with the actual games, prizes and a stand-in contestant.
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[quote name=\'grimmte\' post=\'158366\' date=\'Jul 23 2007, 06:38 PM\']
What are they going to rename Barker's Markers and Barker's Bargain Bar?
[/quote]
In the scripts, Barker's Bargain Bar is known as Bargain Game.
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[quote name=\'grimmte\' post=\'158366\' date=\'Jul 23 2007, 09:38 PM\']
What are they going to rename Barker's Markers and Barker's Bargain Bar?
[/quote]
I'd guess "Make Your Mark" and "Drew's Discount Den."
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I'm still holding out for "Cash and Carey."
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[quote name=\'grimmte\' post=\'158366\' date=\'Jul 23 2007, 09:38 PM\']
What are they going to rename Barker's Markers...?
[/quote]
Drew's Clues? ;)
Seriously, the easy answer is the one used on the '94 version: Make Your Mark.
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Chris319:
Don't they have one cash game per show? I don't see one in your hypothetical second show. Replace Hi-Lo with Grand Game, since they're fundamentally the same game. :-)
Would Squeeze Play be too difficult to learn?
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[quote name=\'Fedya\' post=\'158380\' date=\'Jul 23 2007, 07:58 PM\']
Chris319:
Don't they have one cash game per show? I don't see one in your hypothetical second show. Replace Hi-Lo with Grand Game, since they're fundamentally the same game. :-)
Would Squeeze Play be too difficult to learn?
[/quote]
Good changes.
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[quote name=\'Fedya\' post=\'158380\' date=\'Jul 23 2007, 10:58 PM\']
Don't they have one cash game per show?[/quote]
No.
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He's probably already started on how he's gonna explain Check Game.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'158349\' date=\'Jul 23 2007, 05:16 PM\']If I DID have to pick 12, though, looking at your list, I think I'd yank Grocery Game (which with their current rules and inflation has really been rendered irrelevant)[/quote] As much as I agree, that's too bad, because I like Grocery Game. I think it's one of the better tests of pricing acumen that the show offers. Moreso than "what is the hundreds digit in the cost of this Corvette?"
and replace it with either Grand Game or It's In The Bag.
If it means Half-Assed gets some time in the warehouse to come up with a better gimmick for the pricing portion, I'm all for it.
As much as the show relies on one-decision games to make up time these days, I would imagine that the bulk of the games will be ones like Double Prices, Most Expensive, and the like. I can't imagine them starting off with fewer than 30 games, assuming that season 36 starts with a small stable of games and gradually expands along the way.
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I would hope that there's at least enough games to carry through 1-1.5 weeks. Part of the fun of Price is seeing all the different games and the surprise of seeing them at almost any time. Even though the rotation is obviously going to be reduced, it would still be nice to see some variety of games instead of having to watch Plinko for the 3rd time in 8 shows.
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'158393\' date=\'Jul 23 2007, 10:16 PM\']
As much as I agree, that's too bad, because I like Grocery Game. I think it's one of the better tests of pricing acumen that the show offers.[/quote]
I do too, and I would love to keep it, but they very much need to hack the $1 window that contestants get right now, because it's just too damned hard to win in this day and age where a pack of Life Savers is 65 cents instead of fifteen.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'158399\' date=\'Jul 24 2007, 01:30 AM\']
[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'158393\' date=\'Jul 23 2007, 10:16 PM\']
As much as I agree, that's too bad, because I like Grocery Game. I think it's one of the better tests of pricing acumen that the show offers.[/quote]
I do too, and I would love to keep it, but they very much need to hack the $1 window that contestants get right now, because it's just too damned hard to win in this day and age where a pack of Life Savers is 65 cents instead of fifteen.
[/quote]
IMO, it would be nice if the show actually used everyday products such as Life Savers and potato chips. Instead we get nutritional supplements and winkle cream.
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[quote name=\'Modor\' date=\'Jul 24 2007, 12:32 AM\']winkle cream.[/quote]
Now *there's* some copy I'd like to hear Rich Fields read....
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[quote name=\'Steve McClellan\' post=\'158409\' date=\'Jul 24 2007, 03:52 AM\']
[quote name=\'Modor\' date=\'Jul 24 2007, 12:32 AM\']winkle cream.[/quote]
Now *there's* some copy I'd like to hear Rich Fields read....
[/quote]
Have you seen a urologist about this?
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it would still be nice
There's what would be "nice" and the reality of what the new guy can memorize in short order. You don't simply wave a magic wand and he's ready to go with new pricing games.
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[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'158405\' date=\'Jul 24 2007, 02:32 AM\']
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'158399\' date=\'Jul 24 2007, 01:30 AM\']
[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'158393\' date=\'Jul 23 2007, 10:16 PM\']
As much as I agree, that's too bad, because I like Grocery Game. I think it's one of the better tests of pricing acumen that the show offers.[/quote]
I do too, and I would love to keep it, but they very much need to hack the $1 window that contestants get right now, because it's just too damned hard to win in this day and age where a pack of Life Savers is 65 cents instead of fifteen.
[/quote]
IMO, it would be nice if the show actually used everyday products such as Life Savers and potato chips. Instead we get nutritional supplements and winkle cream.
[/quote]
They are at the mercy of the schlockmeisters here--but not that much, if you've noticed, because in recent years they have added items that come without plugs ("Chocolate chip cookies are everyone's favorite...").
What I'm waiting for is on the grocery products game: "Hot dogs are the all-American treat--put this package of 8 on the grill at your next picnic." Or "Lean bacon is always a tasty addition to breakfast, topping your favorite sandwiches or cool salads."
Or maybe even "A classic dinner for the whole family--David Letterman recommends a bigass ham imported from Poland and full of flavor." :)
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'158420\' date=\'Jul 24 2007, 12:19 PM\']
it would still be nice
There's what would be "nice" and the reality of what the new guy can memorize in short order. You don't simply wave a magic wand and he's ready to go with new pricing games.
[/quote]
They could do a couple of things. Tape a bunch of shows in a row with the same basic game lineup and then show them out of taping order. Use the cue cards they made for George Hamilton, or have Drew throw it to Rich to explain how the game is played and maybe have him join Drew on stage as an assistant during the playing for the first six months or so.
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have Drew throw it to Rich to explain how the game is played and maybe have him join Drew on stage as an assistant during the playing for the first six months or so.
Have you been feeling well lately?
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'158423\' date=\'Jul 24 2007, 12:26 PM\']
...have Drew throw it to Rich to explain how the game is played and maybe have him join Drew on stage as an assistant during the playing for the first six months or so.
[/quote]
Then you've just totally negated the reason for Drew to be there, if you've got Rich telling him what to do. The host has to know how to do things, not throw it to the guy reading the prize copy.
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[quote name=\'davemackey\' post=\'158425\' date=\'Jul 24 2007, 12:40 PM\']
[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'158423\' date=\'Jul 24 2007, 12:26 PM\']
...have Drew throw it to Rich to explain how the game is played and maybe have him join Drew on stage as an assistant during the playing for the first six months or so.
[/quote]
Then you've just totally negated the reason for Drew to be there, if you've got Rich telling him what to do. The host has to know how to do things, not throw it to the guy reading the prize copy.
[/quote]
I was thinking more along the lines of a Groucho-George Fenneman vibe. Fenneman probably could have hosted YBYL alone, but would anyone watch?
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'158432\' date=\'Jul 24 2007, 01:15 PM\']
I was thinking more along the lines of a Groucho-George Fenneman vibe. Fenneman probably could have hosted YBYL alone, but would anyone watch?
[/quote]
Holy smokes. I thought you were being sarcastic. Please tell me you were being sarcastic. I'm praying you are going to tell me you were being sarcastic.
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[quote name=\'tvwxman\' post=\'158437\' date=\'Jul 24 2007, 01:44 PM\']
[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'158432\' date=\'Jul 24 2007, 01:15 PM\']
I was thinking more along the lines of a Groucho-George Fenneman vibe. Fenneman probably could have hosted YBYL alone, but would anyone watch?
[/quote]
Holy smokes. I thought you were being sarcastic. Please tell me you were being sarcastic. I'm praying you are going to tell me you were being sarcastic.
[/quote]
I'm confident Drew will know all the games he will need to know at the outset and be fully up to speed within a few months.
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Outside of the suggestions given, I would start Drew out with the games which have a small number of possible outcomes with as little extra game play as possible--Side by Side, Freeze Frame, Five Price Tags, Pass the Buck, Punch a Bunch, Danger Price, etc. (Sorry if any of those games have been previously mentioned.) If he can't handle games with simple rules like the ones I mentioned, how will Drew ever handle more complex games like Pocket Change, Stack the Deck, or even Step Up?
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[quote name=\'Joe Mello\' post=\'158397\' date=\'Jul 24 2007, 01:10 AM\']
I would hope that there's at least enough games to carry through 1-1.5 weeks. Part of the fun of Price is seeing all the different games and the surprise of seeing them at almost any time. Even though the rotation is obviously going to be reduced, it would still be nice to see some variety of games instead of having to watch Plinko for the 3rd time in 8 shows.
[/quote]
The easy way to do that (and the route I figure TPTB will take) is to tape four or five identical shows a week for the first few weeks and air them out of order. That way, there's still variety on the air and Drew doesn't have to learn more than six games a week. Once Drew has the rythm down and knows the most common games, things can go back to the "old" way and he can learn new ones as they come up in the rotation.
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I would start Drew out with the games which have a small number of possible outcomes with as little extra game play as possible
Does this translate to less language and business for the emcee? I don't see Drew playing Punch-A-Bunch because he would have to learn how to pull off the reveals suspensefully. With Bonus Game/Shell Game/Five Price Tags, Drew has to come up with four different ways to say "The next prize is a waffle maker. Listen to Rich as he describes it" and "$78 is the wrong price. Is the right price higher or lower?" and make it sound fresh every time.
Add Bargain Game to the list.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'158423\' date=\'Jul 24 2007, 12:26 PM\']
Tape a bunch of shows in a row with the same basic game lineup and then show them out of taping order.
[/quote]
[quote name=\'Unrealtor\' post=\'158454\' date=\'Jul 24 2007, 02:44 PM\']
The easy way to do that (and the route I figure TPTB will take) is to tape four or five identical shows a week for the first few weeks and air them out of order. That way, there's still variety on the air and Drew doesn't have to learn more than six games a week. Once Drew has the rythm down and knows the most common games, things can go back to the "old" way and he can learn new ones as they come up in the rotation.
[/quote]
HEY! I just came up with something! Why not have Drew tape a bunch of shows with the same pricing games, then show them out of order?
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[quote name=\'davemackey\' post=\'158462\' date=\'Jul 24 2007, 02:13 PM\']
HEY! I just came up with something! Why not have Drew tape a bunch of shows with the same pricing games, then show them out of order?
[/quote]
D'oh. I got so caught up in the criticism of the second part of that post that I missed the one good idea.
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[quote name=\'Unrealtor\' post=\'158468\' date=\'Jul 24 2007, 03:26 PM\']
[quote name=\'davemackey\' post=\'158462\' date=\'Jul 24 2007, 02:13 PM\']
HEY! I just came up with something! Why not have Drew tape a bunch of shows with the same pricing games, then show them out of order?
[/quote]
D'oh. I got so caught up in the criticism of the second part of that post that I missed the one good idea.
[/quote]
Great minds think alike, well, at least on the first parts of things.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'158460\' date=\'Jul 24 2007, 02:08 PM\']
I don't see Drew playing Punch-A-Bunch because he would have to learn how to pull off the reveals suspensefully. With Bonus Game/Shell Game/Five Price Tags, Drew has to come up with four different ways to say "The next prize is a waffle maker. Listen to Rich as he describes it" and "$78 is the wrong price. Is the right price higher or lower?" and make it sound fresh every time.
[/quote]
I'm curious about your take on Punch-a-Bunch. I would think that the suspense of the reveals is something Carey would be instinctively good at, given his long career as an entertainer.
The ones I'd hold back are ones that are drawn out or with quirks in the rules. And most of them nobody'd miss. So here's what I WOULDN'T have him do:
Pocket Change
Pass the Buck
Take Two
Check Out
Hit Me
Joker
Grocery Game--but he should learn it. (And they could make a win $20-$22)
Pathfinder (unless they price the small items first, then go to the grid)
Card Game
Five Price Tags
Half Off
Bullseye
Bonus Game (Shell Game gives him something to futz with, so he's not just standing by a dull board)
Hi-Lo
Now or Then (the segment thing is hard to see)
Step Up
Shopping Spree (Credit Card is the same thing but more intuitive)
Clearance Sale
Secret X
Buy or Sell
Flip Flop (I love the look, but the whole "flop, flip or flip flop" was Bob's thing. And it encourages cheating.)
Master Lock
Stack the Deck, even though I like this one
Balance Game
Barker's Markers
They may not give him Check Game the first week, but I bet they will for sheer comedic value.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'158460\' date=\'Jul 24 2007, 03:08 PM\']Does this translate to less language and business for the emcee?[/quote]
I wasn't going for that angle, but it's a great one. My thought about using games with a small number of outcomes is that the rules would be more manageable for a rookie host to handle, versus throwing him to the wolves with Pocket Change, Stack the Deck, Temptation, etc. Certainly games with binary outcomes (Double Prices, One Right Price, Coming or Going, Switch?, et al.) should make everything easier for a host. When you throw in "Is $xx,xxx the right price?" and other variations of the wording and reveals into the mix, or side events like placing an X or picking a price, naturally it becomes more challenging.
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Ya know, folks, Drew Carey isn't exactly a stupid person.
Is all of this "hosting" stuff automatic? No. But to suggest he needs "binary outcomes" to start with is kinda doing him a disservice.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'158489\' date=\'Jul 24 2007, 05:52 PM\']
Ya know, folks, Drew Carey isn't exactly a stupid person.
Is all of this "hosting" stuff automatic? No. But to suggest he needs "binary outcomes" to start with is kinda doing him a disservice.[/quote]
What are the simplest games to host? Situations where either choice A is right or choice B. I wasn't insinuating Drew's a dolt nor did I say that the only games he should get are binary outcomes. I appreciate the words being put in my mouth.
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Bargain Game / "Drew's Discount Den"
Double Prices
Switch
Hole in One
Five Price Tags
Three Strikes
Plinko (sadly)
Grand Game
Race Game
Make Your Move
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I would also point out that if you start out with nothing but games that require only one or two decisions before the win or loss is announced, while there is less language for the host to learn, that's also less time taken up by rules explanations and contestant decision-making/gameplay. Which puts the episode at risk of being something like 30 to 60 seconds short if the host is more focused on getting the mechanics of gameplay and blocking down and hasn't yet learned the balance of when to use contestant interaction to fill time. Which would be true of nearly any new host.
So you do need to have a couple of semi-complicated games in the initial mix.
--
Scott Robinson
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'158489\' date=\'Jul 24 2007, 05:52 PM\']
Ya know, folks, Drew Carey isn't exactly a stupid person.
Is all of this "hosting" stuff automatic? No. But to suggest he needs "binary outcomes" to start with is kinda doing him a disservice.[/quote]
I agree. None of the games are complicated. If they were, they would have been yanked by now. I'm sure they'll start with a handful of games, run through them one at a time, and take it from there. And if they have to stop down once or twice per show and brief Carey on the upcoming games, so be it.
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[quote name=\'MikeK\' post=\'158491\' date=\'Jul 24 2007, 03:07 PM\']
What are the simplest games to host? Situations where either choice A is right or choice B. I wasn't insinuating Drew's a dolt nor did I say that the only games he should get are binary outcomes. I appreciate the words being put in my mouth.
[/quote]
Oh, calm down, I wasn't putting any words in your mouth that you didn't use yourself. ("Binary outcomes" is YOUR phrase, chief.) Nor did I suggest that you said either of those things.
This is gonna get old REALLY fast.
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Does this translate to less language and business for the emcee?
I wasn't going for that angle, but it's a great one.
Mike, you're a smart enough guy to know that at first, the emphasis will be on Drew simply getting the right words out. I harken back to the days of Dennis James, who was intentionally given a limited repertoire of games. Money Game is a great starter game with its repetitive picks. So is Cliffhangers because the business of mountain climbing fills time without the emcee having to do anything. Range Game: stand there and watch the range finder go up. P!inko: stand there and watch the chips fall.
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The more pricing games that they can have available to play in the quickest period of time, the better off the show will be. Even the most casual viewers will pick up on things if they're playing Most Expensive 3 times a week every week.
Ideally, if they can get Drew comfortable with 30 games the first week, they'll be good. At least 25 minimum (Plinko, Money Game, a couple others could be gotten away with twice.) After that, try to work in a few (5?) new games per week, and by mid-season you can have a game rotation near what exists now. Drew seems like an intelligent guy, so him learning the games shouldn't be an issue.
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Even the most casual viewers will pick up on things if they're playing Most Expensive 3 times a week every week.
They might also pick up on the fact that there's a new emcee.
Ideally, if they can get Drew comfortable with 30 games the first week
Geez Louise, what do you think Drew Carey is, some kind of super-genius mental freak? I still have memories of Dick Martin trying to get ONE game straight. How many shows did they do and how many pricing games was D.P. unable to master? And you think Drew is going to get 30 in the first week alone? Cripes, they only have five games when Barker started.
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Wouldn't learning how games are played be akin to memorizing a script? I don't think it's gonna be as much of a problem as it would for a non-actor. I think Drew will do his homework and be ready when the time comes as all eyez are on him.
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His acting experience will no doubt stand him in good stead, unlike other non-actor types who have read for the job.
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*We* care about the pricing game rotation. Seems to me far more viewers are going to care about Drew. I'm not saying they should play the same games every day for a week, but honestly I don't think anybody but us gives a tinker's damn about it.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'158532\' date=\'Jul 25 2007, 12:19 AM\']
Geez Louise, what do you think Drew Carey is, some kind of super-genius mental freak?[/quote]
No, I think he's a reasonably intelligent human being with quite a few years of experience memorizing sets of directions. Factored in with the fact that there are a few cases where rules overlap or are similar, and Drew seems perfectly capable to me of learing 20-30 games - given he does have a couple of months before the show even goes on the air.
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