The Game Show Forum

The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: The Pyramids on June 09, 2007, 05:01:53 PM

Title: TPIR and the beginning
Post by: The Pyramids on June 09, 2007, 05:01:53 PM
I've never learned how exactly the show  came about. Was it first developed for syndication, heavily revamped from the Bill Cullen show with echos of 'Lets Make A Deal, with Dennis James onboard? Was it after this that CBS became interested in a daily show with the notable change of Bob Barker as host? Or was it first developed for CBS?
Title: TPIR and the beginning
Post by: wdm1219inpenna on June 09, 2007, 06:21:06 PM
[quote name=\'PaulD\' post=\'154803\' date=\'Jun 9 2007, 04:01 PM\']
I've never learned how exactly the show  came about. Was it first developed for syndication, heavily revamped from the Bill Cullen show with echos of 'Lets Make A Deal, with Dennis James onboard? Was it after this that CBS became interested in a daily show with the notable change of Bob Barker as host? Or was it first developed for CBS?
[/quote]


Hello,

I've been in hibernation for quite a while, but found my way back to the boards.

My understanding is that "The Price is Right", along with "The Joker's Wild" and "Gambit" were all CBS gameshows from the start, and the impression I get from that is that TPIR was not first developed for syndication.  It may have been discussed about the network and syndication version being concurrent however.  CBS wanted to replace their tired old daytime 60's sitcom reruns with something "fresh", thus the 3 new games debuting on 4 Sept 1972.

Hope this helps.  My reply is merely an inference of what I know, but I have no hard core facts regarding your inquiry.

Regards,
Bill McD.
Title: TPIR and the beginning
Post by: Steve Gavazzi on June 09, 2007, 09:44:51 PM
[quote name=\'wdm1219inpenna\' post=\'154808\' date=\'Jun 9 2007, 06:21 PM\']
My understanding is that "The Price is Right", along with "The Joker's Wild" and "Gambit" were all CBS gameshows from the start, and the impression I get from that is that TPIR was not first developed for syndication.  It may have been discussed about the network and syndication version being concurrent however.[/quote]

Given that every single story I've ever heard about TPIR's origins that wasn't told by Barker involved the show being intended for syndication with James as the host and the CBS version being essentially an afterthought, I really can't fathom how you came to that conclusion.
Title: TPIR and the beginning
Post by: Jimmy Owen on June 09, 2007, 10:54:33 PM
The first TV Guide item I can find about the revival was in the issue of 5/27/72.  I will quote the blurb for historical purposes: "Sign of the TV day-times: CBS is planning to resurrect that Goodson-Todman oldie of a less-inflationary age: The Price Is Right."  Of course, the trades may have reported that earlier than TVG.  

The 1972 NATPE was in February, but I'm not sure if the confab was as infuential then as it became.  One would think the NBC O&O's would have made the deal with Viacom before May of 72.  When was the pitch film shot?
Title: TPIR and the beginning
Post by: joshg on June 10, 2007, 01:59:16 AM
There is a decent article about 'Price' in the current Entertainment Weekly (with George and Brad on the cover). They talk to all the usual suspects, including Anitra!

Josh
Title: TPIR and the beginning
Post by: brianhenke on June 10, 2007, 08:52:13 AM
[quote name=\'joshg\' post=\'154832\' date=\'Jun 10 2007, 01:59 AM\']
There is a decent article about 'Price' in the current Entertainment Weekly (with George and Brad on the cover). They talk to all the usual suspects, including Anitra!

Josh
[/quote]


Also, Paul Levine, the first Showcase winner.

Brian
Title: TPIR and the beginning
Post by: ChrisLambert! on June 10, 2007, 09:20:43 AM
[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'154825\' date=\'Jun 9 2007, 10:54 PM\']
The first TV Guide item I can find about the revival was in the issue of 5/27/72.  I will quote the blurb for historical purposes: "Sign of the TV day-times: CBS is planning to resurrect that Goodson-Todman oldie of a less-inflationary age: The Price Is Right."  Of course, the trades may have reported that earlier than TVG.  
[/quote]

A few months later, one of their writers said the new show would be "for all intents and purposes, the same old Price is Right."
Title: TPIR and the beginning
Post by: wdm1219inpenna on June 10, 2007, 11:34:11 AM
[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'154821\' date=\'Jun 9 2007, 09:44 PM\']
[quote name=\'wdm1219inpenna\' post=\'154808\' date=\'Jun 9 2007, 06:21 PM\']
My understanding is that "The Price is Right", along with "The Joker's Wild" and "Gambit" were all CBS gameshows from the start, and the impression I get from that is that TPIR was not first developed for syndication.  It may have been discussed about the network and syndication version being concurrent however.[/quote]

Given that every single story I've ever heard about TPIR's origins that wasn't told by Barker involved the show being intended for syndication with James as the host and the CBS version being essentially an afterthought, I really can't fathom how you came to that conclusion.
[/quote]


Oh, stupid me!  I had a human moment.  Sorry.
Title: TPIR and the beginning
Post by: Neumms on June 10, 2007, 03:30:22 PM
[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'154821\' date=\'Jun 9 2007, 08:44 PM\']
[quote name=\'wdm1219inpenna\' post=\'154808\' date=\'Jun 9 2007, 06:21 PM\']
My understanding is that "The Price is Right", along with "The Joker's Wild" and "Gambit" were all CBS gameshows from the start, and the impression I get from that is that TPIR was not first developed for syndication.  It may have been discussed about the network and syndication version being concurrent however.[/quote]

Given that every single story I've ever heard about TPIR's origins that wasn't told by Barker involved the show being intended for syndication with James as the host and the CBS version being essentially an afterthought, I really can't fathom how you came to that conclusion.
[/quote]

I know you're a good source, but wasn't Bud Grant, the CBS programming guy, something of an instigator, too? I recall a story that he went to Goodson, and Goodson said they'd have to change the show because nobody would watch four rounds of bidding on a dishwasher anymore.
Title: TPIR and the beginning
Post by: davemackey on June 10, 2007, 04:26:15 PM
[quote name=\'wdm1219inpenna\' post=\'154808\' date=\'Jun 9 2007, 06:21 PM\']
My understanding is that "The Price is Right", along with "The Joker's Wild" and "Gambit" were all CBS gameshows from the start, and the impression I get from that is that TPIR was not first developed for syndication.[/quote]
I really think these producers aren't thinking in terms of "what network can I sell this to". I don't think that Jack Barry ever dreamed he'd get CBS daytime on board when he originally conceived of Joker's Wild in the late 1960's, for example. Just happened that way.
Title: TPIR and the beginning
Post by: Steve Gavazzi on June 10, 2007, 04:41:30 PM
[quote name=\'Neumms\' post=\'154847\' date=\'Jun 10 2007, 03:30 PM\']
[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'154821\' date=\'Jun 9 2007, 08:44 PM\']
[quote name=\'wdm1219inpenna\' post=\'154808\' date=\'Jun 9 2007, 06:21 PM\']
My understanding is that "The Price is Right", along with "The Joker's Wild" and "Gambit" were all CBS gameshows from the start, and the impression I get from that is that TPIR was not first developed for syndication.  It may have been discussed about the network and syndication version being concurrent however.[/quote]

Given that every single story I've ever heard about TPIR's origins that wasn't told by Barker involved the show being intended for syndication with James as the host and the CBS version being essentially an afterthought, I really can't fathom how you came to that conclusion.
[/quote]

I know you're a good source, but wasn't Bud Grant, the CBS programming guy, something of an instigator, too? I recall a story that he went to Goodson, and Goodson said they'd have to change the show because nobody would watch four rounds of bidding on a dishwasher anymore.
[/quote]

Hmm...can't answer that one.  Any takers?  Please?
Title: TPIR and the beginning
Post by: JasonA1 on June 10, 2007, 05:07:00 PM
Here's the presumed source of that notion, courtesy of Game Shows '75 (http://\"http://www.curtalliaume.com/tpir.html\"):

"CBS daytime programming chief Budd Grant urged Mark Goodson to revive the program in 1972, but Goodson realized the original version wouldn’t work with their daytime budget (four rounds of bids on a dishwasher?), so with Grant’s acquiescence, he revamped the entire show."

I take it that was culled from industry books, interviews and that sort of thing as well.

-Jason
Title: TPIR and the beginning
Post by: clemon79 on June 10, 2007, 05:16:48 PM
I do wish Curt would have documented his sources a little better. That said, I doubt he intended for his site to be used as a reference source.
Title: TPIR and the beginning
Post by: Matt Ottinger on June 10, 2007, 11:59:33 PM
Anyone who's seen the pitch film with Dennis James would logically conclude that the game was being marketed as a syndicated offering first, much like G-T's successful relaunches of WML? and TTTT.  I couldn't speak with any authority on how the network deal got made, but I think it's reasonable to assume that the original expectation was that the syndicated show was going to be the big deal, not the network version.  Funny how things work out.
Title: TPIR and the beginning
Post by: BrandonFG on June 11, 2007, 12:45:01 AM
[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'154878\' date=\'Jun 10 2007, 11:59 PM\']
Anyone who's seen the pitch film with Dennis James would logically conclude that the game was being marketed as a syndicated offering first, much like G-T's successful relaunches of WML? and TTTT.  I couldn't speak with any authority on how the network deal got made, but I think it's reasonable to assume that the original expectation was that the syndicated show was going to be the big deal, not the network version.  Funny how things work out.
[/quote]
Hmmm...makes me wonder had there never been a network version, would daytime game shows have died out much sooner than 1994?
Title: TPIR and the beginning
Post by: chris319 on June 11, 2007, 07:21:49 AM
Quote
...makes me wonder had there never been a network version, would daytime game shows have died out much sooner than 1994?
There is nothing to suggest that TPIR has carried the rest of the genre for any period of time. The demise of daytime game shows probably has more to do with the changes in the corporate ownership of the three networks in 1986 than anything else.
Title: TPIR and the beginning
Post by: tyshaun1 on June 11, 2007, 07:58:39 AM
[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'154887\' date=\'Jun 11 2007, 07:21 AM\']
Quote
...makes me wonder had there never been a network version, would daytime game shows have died out much sooner than 1994?
There is nothing to suggest that TPIR has carried the rest of the genre for any period of time.
[/quote]

I would go as far as to say that Match Game and Family Feud have done more for the genre than TPIR has ever done, despite Price lasting longer than both shows entire runs combined; even Match helped TPIR become successful.

Tyshaun
Title: TPIR and the beginning
Post by: Kniwt on June 12, 2007, 01:55:28 AM
[quote name=\'JasonA1\' post=\'154855\' date=\'Jun 10 2007, 02:07 PM\']
Here's the presumed source of that notion, courtesy of Game Shows '75 (http://\"http://www.curtalliaume.com/tpir.html\"):

"CBS daytime programming chief Budd Grant urged Mark Goodson to revive the program in 1972, but Goodson realized the original version wouldn’t work with their daytime budget (four rounds of bids on a dishwasher?), so with Grant’s acquiescence, he revamped the entire show."

I take it that was culled from industry books, interviews and that sort of thing as well.
[/quote]

Here's a short passage from Maxene Fabe's book "TV Game Shows!" (1979):

The original Bob Stewart version of the show, which had aired over NBC and ABC in both daytime and nighttime versions from 1956 to 1965, had been like all game shows, a half-hour show. And in 1972, almost ten years later, that was what CBS had in mind when daytime vice-president Bud Grant called Mark Goodson to revive it.

... To his dismay, it took Goodson all of one week to realize that the old game, the original concept for The Price Is Right, no longe worked. Having contestants spend six or seven minutes making three bids on a modestly priced coffee table in these inflated times was boring; yet no show could afford to give away prizes expensive enough to make three bids interesting.

... Goodson told Grant his reluctant conclusion: "Unless you want a whole new show, we're going to have to cancel our deal," he said.

"No," said Grant. "Go ahead. I trust you. Overhaul it from top to bottom if you have to."


All the usual caveats about Maxene Fabe's book apply, of course.
Title: TPIR and the beginning
Post by: chris319 on June 12, 2007, 03:21:53 AM
Maxine Fabe is misinformed. Higher-ups at G-T have told me TPIR was originally intended for syndication (specifically for the NBC-owned stations) with Dennis James as emcee.

A few points of interest:

- In her book, Maxine Fabe makes no mention of the sales tape done with Goodson and Dennis James.

- To the best of my knowledge, CBS never commissioned a pilot. I can't think of a good reason they wouldn't have ordered one.

- Barker was Bud Grant's idea.

- I suspect the new format was largely the brainchild of Frank Wayne.

Among the living, Jay Wolpert or Phil Rossi might know these things. Or Marc Breslow.
Title: TPIR and the beginning
Post by: Clay Zambo on June 12, 2007, 08:30:32 AM
[quote name=\'Kniwt\' post=\'154940\' date=\'Jun 12 2007, 01:55 AM\']
All the usual caveats about Maxene Fabe's book apply, of course.
[/quote]

Maxine Fabe--now there's a name I haven't heard in a while.

Seems like she's got a new line o' work (and a new surname):

From the Stamford Advocate (http://\"http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/features/scn-sa-letter1jun08,0,3611455.story?track=mostemailedlink\").