The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: Skynet74 on June 18, 2003, 02:12:30 AM
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Thought this would be kind of a fun topic for everyone. Let's have some educated guesses about what you think Game Show announcers in the business currently make. Randy West will probably get a kick out of some of these guesses since he knows first hand. I'll start
Rod Roddy $ 3000 per show
Price Is Right fill in Announcers $1,000 per show
Charlie O'Donell $3,500 Per Show
Johnny Gilbert $3,500 Per Show
John
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Are you talking about per show or per taping day? Johnny Gilbert and Charlie O. may get the figures you cite for one taping day. Divide that by five and you get $700 per show.
In 1979 a certian announcer made $1,280 per taping day or $256 per show.
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The AFTRA scale for off-camera announcers is posted on the web. Certainly, staffers such as Rod Roddy or Charlie O get more than scale, but here's a little factual information injected into this fanciful discussion.
An off-camera announcer speaking more than ten lines on a one-hour show (such as TPIR) gets at least $484 for one show. The fee increases depending on how many shows he does in one calendar week, up to $1,452 for doing five shows. The rates are lower for half-hour shows, of course, and lower still if the announcer has ten lines or less.
There's probably a lot more to it than a simple chart of scale payments, but there's the minimum for you.
http://www.aftra.org/resources/networktvrate.html#E (http://\"http://www.aftra.org/resources/networktvrate.html#E\")
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Jun 18 2003, 09:27 AM\'] An off-camera announcer speaking more than ten lines on a one-hour show (such as TPIR) gets at least $484 for one show. The fee increases depending on how many shows he does in one calendar week, up to $1,452 for doing five shows. [/quote]
hmmmm, I may have over estimated what they get paid. Yes, Brandon it's just a guessing game. $484 dollars per show seems really low. For 52 weeks of shows that would only be 125,840 dollars a year. That's certainly much less than what I pictured a highly successful announcer on a National Television show making. I pictured Rod's salary as well as Charlie's and Johnny's as being closer to half a million a year since they are so high profile. Saturday Night Live's Don Pardo much make over a million seeing he's been in the business for 60 years and probably gets a ton of money for side projects.
John
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[quote name=\'Skynet74\' date=\'Jun 18 2003, 10:36 AM\'] I pictured Rod's salary as well as Charlie's and Johnny's as being closer to half a million a year since they are so high profile. Saturday Night Live's Don Pardo much make over a million seeing he's been in the business for 60 years and probably gets a ton of money for side projects. [/quote]
First, I think this is a pretty inappropriate topic for a public forum among whos membership is a fairly successful announcer. It's tantamount to asking him \"Hey, what do you make, anyhow?\" It's none of our business.
That said, I would be VERY surprised if any of the people you named are making a half-mil a year. I don't think \"game show announcer\" (again, with apologies to Randy) is nearly as high-profile a gig as you think.
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I do know that most of the staff got extra money for doing those Primetime specials.
Whether the announcer is included, I don't know.
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$484 dollars per show seems really low. For 52 weeks of shows that would only be 125,840 dollars a year. That's certainly much less than what I pictured a highly successful announcer on a National Television show making.
Again, as I said, that's just scale. Anybody who's in the union makes at LEAST that much on a union show. Established performers, especially those who've been with shows for a long time (or have good agents), certainly make more than scale. How MUCH more is where the guessing game comes in.
And John, your math is wrong. Any announcer making scale on a 52-week run would be paid $1,452 for one day of taping five shows. That's only $75,504 a year. Some (Fremantle, prehaps?) might make the argument that that's actually not a bad salary for one or two days of work a week with no heavy lifting and free lunches, but as I said, the announcing \"stars\" certainly make more. Just probably not as MUCH more as you were thinking. For example, despite having no direct insider knowledge, I'm fairly confident in stating that Don Pardo does not make a million dollars a year.
As for the appropriateness of this thread, I don't have a problem with it. Randy is free to ignore it, add insights without revealing specifics, or download his W-2 for us. The amount that performers make is an endlessly fascinating subject, and I see no reason why we shouldn't discuss it just because one of them walks among us. Especially since so many of you have aspirations of doing this sort of thing yourselves some day.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Jun 18 2003, 02:15 PM\'] As for the appropriateness of this thread, I don't have a problem with it. Randy is free to ignore it, add insights without revealing specifics, or download his W-2 for us. The amount that performers make is an endlessly fascinating subject, and I see no reason why we shouldn't discuss it just because one of them walks among us. Especially since so many of you have aspirations of doing this sort of thing yourselves some day. [/quote]
I agree with you there. I'm not asking any particulars of anybody. Confirming exact salaries certainly was not my intention when starting this thread. I just thought it would be fun for us to guess what they may be. Just another angle for some new game show discussions. Afterall, how much more can we talk about the blue wall on The Price is Right? Let's try something a little different. That was my intention when starting this thread.
:-)
John
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That blue wall is so...... BLUE!
I've done years of warm-up. So there's little anyone can say at this point to offend me. I've heard it all from audience members we've taken hostage for those long multi-episode tapings of the nameless shows that stop and start more frequently than geriatric sex!
So sure, let's talk money ;-)
$484 IS scale for an hour show such as TPIR. The \"multiple discount\" alluded to by Matt is a bewildering, antiquated concept that is always confusing no matter how it's explained. It was an item I helped study and present to the contract negotiators when the AFTRA codes were last negotiated with producers. It failed to be addressed because of the relatively few AFTRANs it affects (mostly just game show folk, because no other genre of show tapes more than 1 or 2 episodes a day). I found out when making my plea to the negotiating committee that Johnny Gilbert raised the same points and made similar suggestions (also to no avail) when he took on the same issue as his pet project somewhere around the 1980s
Here's the story on that wacky \"multiple discount\". Back at the advent of video tape AFTRA wanted to encourage the use of that new technology because of its efficiency and the flexibility it afforded members in scheduling their work. So an incentive was added to the contract that gave producers a financial break if multiple episodes were taped on the same day for broadcast in the same calendar week. That's how a daily show can yield an announcer (or model or scale host) less than 5-times scale for a week of shows, but they have to all be taped on the same day and all broadcast during the same calendar week to qualify. Now that everything is taped and shows do as many as 7 episodes a day, I've believed that such an incentive is clearly outdated. Although it's been years since I've worked for scale, I've been for phasing-out the multiple discount incentive because the higher the scale figure is for a job, generally the higher one can negotiate, using scale as a reference point.
Thankfully TPIR is rarely subject to the discount as taping is mostly one episode a day, and the two that are occasionally taped on the same day are not always broadcast in the same week. So the powers that be do NOT apply any discount on \"Price\" when computing scale. I'm happy to say I started as fill-in on TPIR at above scale, although it is NOT the highest paying job I've had. It's certainly fair and (don't quote me) I'd do it for far less to fulfill my dream as well as to establish my credibility and suitability for the show with the producers and owners.
Rod works under a great deal negotiated back in the Mark Goodson days that makes him the highest paid of our \"family\". On the other hand, Johnny O had NO agent and never asked for a penny more than scale (and never got it, from everything I've heard). He loved the work and the friendships too much for the money to have ever become an issue for him. With no kids to support and his always working multiple shows over many decades, he and Penny were well set, especially in consideration of their conservative West Virginia lifestyle.
I don't feel comfortable talking about anyone else except to say that SONY treats Charlie O and Johnny Gilbert fairly with well above-scale deals. And to clarify that Don Pardo is among the very last STAFF announcers on Earth, meaning that he is guaranteed an annual salary virtually for the rest of his life no matter how little time he actually spends behind a microphone. In his position, more work only minimally increases his compensation.
Class dismissed ;-)
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' date=\'Jun 18 2003, 11:55 PM\'] I've done years of warm-up. So there's little anyone can say at this point to offend me.
So sure, let's talk money ;-)
Randy
tvrandywest.com [/quote]
Great explanation Randy. You've educated many of us with your profound knowledge and a bit of history added in for good measure. Thanks TEACH! :-)
John
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Johnny O. was nuts.
Using $1,280 as the one-day figure for announcer scale in 1979, if he was taping TPIR 3 days per week and MG every other weekend he averaged four taping days per week for a weekly salary of $5,120. If those shows taped, say, 46 weeks per year he was making around $235,000 per year. That's a very healthy salary for 1979 and is probably on par with the G-T producers and directors. Adjusted for inflation he would be making almost $600,000 per year today. What we don't know is whether Johnny got a Xmas bonus from Goodson -- possibly not. The point is, Johnny could have asked for double scale or more and Goodson would have paid it.
Barker, OTOH, rakes it in like autumn leaves. He gets an emcee salary, an E.P. salary, and he costs CBS a fortune with that extra taping day which I estimate costs somewhere in the upper six figures per year.
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On the other hand, Johnny O had NO agent and never asked for a penny more than scale (and never got it, from everything I've heard).
That's the most extraordinary example yet of what a different time it was in the 60s and 70s for game shows. To think that the greatest announcer ever was perfectly happy making scale because he *knew* that he'd be protected by his company and that he'd never lack for work. Amazing.
Of course, that raises another question. If you're Goodson, how do you justify paying ANY announcer above scale when your #1 guy isn't asking for more? I don't think I would have wanted to be Gene Wood's agent, for example.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Jun 19 2003, 09:31 AM\']If you're Goodson, how do you justify paying ANY announcer above scale when your #1 guy isn't asking for more? I don't think I would have wanted to be Gene Wood's agent, for example.[/quote]
Great point. Indeed, Gene never shook any significant above-scale bucks from Goodson. And while Johnny's philosophy kept a full plate of employment before him until his death (how many other 75 year olds are still fully employed and going strong at that age) it did have a negative side effect.
While EVERYBODY who worked shoulder-to-shoulder with Johnny held him in the highest regard, Mr. Goodson never had a great deal of respect for Johnny. The two times I had relaxed, one-on-one opportune moments to ask Mark Goodson about Johnny and their relationship I received some slightly harsh and quite dismissive responses.
Some have conjectured that Goodson's attitude was less about Johnny himself, and more about Goodson's own very brief and limited announcing career. Who's to say.
The truth isn't always lovely, especially in the television biz.
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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Mr. Goodson never had a great deal of respect for Johnny. The two times I had relaxed, one-on-one opportune moments to ask Mark Goodson about Johnny and their relationship I received some slightly harsh and quite dismissive responses.
Well maybe that shoots the notion that Johnny could have commanded above-scale from Goodson. Still, the notion that Johnny made scale while Barker was so vastly overcompensated is irksome. I can't imagine why Goodson would be harsh and dismissive when Johnny added so much to his shows in terms of both announcing and warm-ups, and that he employed John continuously for so many years.
Frank Wayne used to have some choice comments for Goodson, often made to his face! Yet Goodson rewarded him with near-continuous employment and six-figure Xmas bonuses.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Jun 22 2003, 01:52 AM\']Well maybe that shoots the notion that Johnny could have commanded above-scale from Goodson...
... Frank Wayne used to have some choice comments for Goodson, often made to his face! Yet Goodson rewarded him with near-continuous employment and six-figure Xmas bonuses.[/quote]
And there, dear friend, lies the irony that was (imho) the relationship between Mr. Goodson and the majority of his most valuable players, Johnny included.
Your Frank Wayne observation jives with both the first-person accounts of folks like Bob Stewart (an amazing story) and the anecdotal reports of Goodson's relationships with even his most valued hosts.
Goodson was a most complex man. The nature of these relationships is only the tip of the iceberg. And like most bergs, 90% of this one should remain invisible, at least for the purposes of this board!
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Jun 18 2003, 09:27 AM\']
. The rates are lower for half-hour shows, of course, and lower still if the announcer has ten lines or less.
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Does that mean that the Pyramid announcer gets paid more if the secret six is won?
he costs CBS a fortune with that extra taping day which I estimate costs somewhere in the upper six figures per year
Pardon my ignorance, but what extra taping day?
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[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' date=\'Jun 22 2003, 08:54 AM\'] Goodson was a most complex man. [/quote]
I've found this is a polite way of calling someone an a**hole. :)
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[quote name=\'tommycharles\' date=\'Jun 22 2003, 11:46 AM\']
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he costs CBS a fortune with that extra taping day which I estimate costs somewhere in the upper six figures per year
Pardon my ignorance, but what extra taping day?
Corrections appreciated, but I believe that \"TPIR\" used to tape six shows over three days, two shows a day, Monday through Wednesday, as a normal taping schedule. Now it's either four or five shows over four days, Monday through Thursday (with only one two-show day some weeks). This makes it more difficult for CBS to get three shows in a week out of 33 (\"Dennis Miller Live\" at least was an easy show to set up and strike). Now, on weeks where \"H2\" is taping, they only get two shows. Considering that \"Y&R\" and \"B&B\" permanently tie up two studios and Kilborn seems to be the only show in his studio, \"TPIR\"'s four-day schedule seems to minimize TV City's capabilities to maximize production.
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The afternoon taping on Monday was added because Barker wanted to slow down and didn't want to do 2 shows per day for 3 days. It's been that way since about 1998. They still get a full week's worth of shows.
H2 occassionally still does Friday-Sunday tapings. I've been there on a Friday taping. They actually had to switch warm-up guys half way through as Bob (dont' know last name) does the warmup for the Tonight show as well as H2(and is bad at both, IMO).
The Price set is struck immediately after the Thursday taping (you should see how fast the crew gets out of there) regardless if there are any upcoming tapings on that stage. They obviously have to strike it if something like H2 is taping. They also strike it because (something I just recently found out) the floors have to be cleaned. (although it didn't look very dirty to me).
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The rates are lower for half-hour shows, of course, and lower still if the announcer has ten lines or less.
Does that mean that the Pyramid announcer gets paid more if the secret six is won?
Yea, by necessity, the AFTRA code is a long, complicated series of documents (like my posts ;-) ... and this discussion is only about announcers (not hosts, models, stunt pilots, singers, dancers, commentators, sportscasters, puppeteers, etc.), and only about televison programs (not radio programs or commercials, TV commercials, promos, educational video, infomercials, music videos, sound recordings/CDs, home video, in-store video, etc.)!
Performers only have the protections and compensation minimums because of the courageous efforts of many past SAG and AFTRA members who put their careers on the line for their fellow performers when talent was being unfairly exploited. Did you know that the dancers in many movie musicals of the 1930s worked 18 hour days and danced until they dropped from exhaustion or the blood in their shoes leaked and ruined a take? The unions have a wonderful history that includes many great stories about people like Frank Nelson (The \"Yeeeeessssss, Mrs. Ricardo\" / Freddy Filmore character actor from \"I Love Lucy\") who was instrumental in the creation of the entire concept of \"residuals\" for when re-runs create a new stream of money for the owners of past performances.
To your Pyramid question...
As discussed before, \"scale\" is the minimum payment for a union show. Indeed, IF the announcer on a show (such as Pyramid) were paid the bare minimum, AND many episodes featured less than 10 lines (a \"line\" is generally a sentence, but in flowing prose in generally interpretted to equal 10 words), AND an entire calendar week of shows were taped on a single day, the gig would be far less rewarding than anyone would imagine. And yes, in this hypothetical case, episodes in which the announcer has over 10 lines would be compensated at a higher rate.
Actual salaries and the terms of individual deals vary widely, and may bear little resemblence to minimum (scale) compensation. Your mileage may vary, use as directed, pre-cooked weight, batteries not included, member FDIC, void where prohibited, portions of the program not affecting the outcome of the game have been edited for broadcast, in the course of briefings actual questions may be discerned by the celebrities, subject to availabilty, close cover before striking. ;-)
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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I'm trying to think of anyone the aloof Mr. Goodson had anything resembling a personal bond with.
I'm still thinking.
Liz Martin and Jeremy Shamos used to follow him around everywhere (Liz was paid to). Among talent he seemed to like Bill Cullen for the obvious reason that they both went back 1,000 years. Of course if you were a female and attractive it was a different story.
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[quote name=\'cmjb13\' date=\'Jun 22 2003, 02:09 PM\'] Bob (dont' know last name) does the warmup for the Tonight show as well as H2(and is bad at both, IMO).
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I thought Leno/Edd Hall did the warmup - eh - at least the warmup guy lives up to the same standards the host does...
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Bob (dont' know last name) does the warmup for the Tonight show as well as H2(and is bad at both, IMO).
Bob Perlo
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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He's less annoying at the Tonight show.