The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: chops on March 22, 2007, 08:09:44 AM
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Several quiz shows in recent memory have fallen victim to what I've been calling "The Jeopardy Effect." Basically, contestants who are so used to hearing responses phrased in the form of a question end up doing it out of habit on other shows.
Some examples:
- TJW'90 (hence the subtitle...I remember several occasions where Pat would get irritated and admonish contestants that "this isn't Jeopardy!")
- History IQ: one contestant did this for the entire opening round
- WBSM, where as we all know this was exploited for great comedic effect
- Smush, where Ken Ober tried to make a joke about being sued by Alex
- even the Smartass! clip over on the Internet Finds thread
I have a feeling that this could also happen to Temptation when it comes over here, and it makes me wonder if maybe the producers have prepared for this eventuality, especially given the fact that they have a rookie host.
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[quote name=\'chops\' post=\'148781\' date=\'Mar 22 2007, 07:09 AM\']
I have a feeling that this could also happen to Temptation when it comes over here, and it makes me wonder if maybe the producers have prepared for this eventuality, especially given the fact that they have a rookie host.
[/quote]
What exactly gives you this inclination (and why is it that big of a deal)?
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This has happened on a few other shows as well. The only other one that comes to mind is Sale of the Century. I'm sure a few contestants on there did that too.
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There was one occasion on $ale where a contestant answers What is Aspestis? and Jim says uh I give up what is aspestis no aspestis is right. I'm gonna have to grow that mustasche one of these days.
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[quote name=\'gsfreak82\' post=\'148788\' date=\'Mar 22 2007, 05:58 AM\']
There was one occasion on $ale where a contestant answers What is Aspestis? and Jim says uh I give up what is aspestis no aspestis is right. I'm gonna have to grow that mustasche one of these days.
[/quote]
Best. Post. EVAR.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'148795\' date=\'Mar 22 2007, 10:38 AM\'] [quote name=\'gsfreak82\' post=\'148788\' date=\'Mar 22 2007, 05:58 AM\']
There was one occasion on $ale where a contestant answers What is Aspestis? and Jim says uh I give up what is aspestis no aspestis is right. I'm gonna have to grow that mustasche one of these days.
[/quote]
Best. Post. EVAR. [/quote]
Why do I hear it being read in the same tone of voice as "This one time, at band camp..."?
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I can add a few others:
"Split Second": Contestant speaks in Jeopardese, Tom Kennedy turns to Jack Clark and says, "Isn't that right, Jack Pardo?" IIRC, Clark didn't boom "That's right, Art," to Kennedy.
"TJW": Jack Barry feigns ignorance and says to contestant, "What's with all this 'who is' and 'what is' stuff?"
"Jackpot": Geoff Edwards turns to Expert and says, "If you don't stop with all this 'who is' and 'what is,' I'll sic Art Fleming on you!"
"Turn It Up!": Jordan Brady says in his haughty Trebek voice, "correct--select!" (Unrelated to Jeopardese, he once gave an answer in his Trebek voice as "and the answer, players, is--Can-a-da."
"Remote Control": Ken Ober tugs at the collar of his polo shirt and says, "Do these clothes look like they come from Mr. Guy?"
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The 'Jeopardy Effect' is actually not a bad term for a very real phenomenon. (Not surprisingly, we get it on QuizBusters fairly often as well.) Still, it's hardly a problem, and I'm not sure why you think Temptation would have to 'prepare' for it, unless you're hoping that they'll have some kind of planned humorous response the way that Ben and Jimmy did.
I'm also guessing that you misread Pat Finn's reaction, because genuinely becoming irritated about it is just about the worst possible response, and Finn was smarter than that.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'148800\' date=\'Mar 22 2007, 11:20 AM\']
The 'Jeopardy Effect' is actually not a bad term for a very real phenomenon. (Not surprisingly, we get it on QuizBusters fairly often as well.) Still, it's hardly a problem, and I'm not sure why you think Temptation would have to 'prepare' for it, unless you're hoping that they'll have some kind of planned humorous response the way that Ben and Jimmy did. [/quote]
I have the feeling, barring any surprises, that the only response the pretty boy host they've hired will have to a Jeopardese incident will be a blank look on his face.
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See the ep. of Winning Streak (contestant Patty Mulharren) on the trading circuit for another example of said effect.
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[quote name=\'uncamark\' post=\'148802\' date=\'Mar 22 2007, 12:22 PM\']
I have the feeling, barring any surprises, that the only response the pretty boy host they've hired will have to a Jeopardese incident will be a blank look on his face.
[/quote]
Game shows are put together a lot differently now than they were in the previous millenium (except for Quizbusters) If it does happen, they can stop tape, recreate the question and answer and fix it all in the editing room.
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It happened on Play the Percentages too (the solo player format) where both contestants were answering in the form of a question. One of the contestants did it seemingly by accident and Geoff just said "oh what the heck" or something to that effect and the other player also answered in the form of a question.
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It's also a problem for the contestants on the sole surviving "Winning Streak" from 1974. It wasn't exactly a worrisome issue then or now.
EDIT: Oh, a whole hour and a half before me...Well, I'm an idiot...
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I know this one made one of the blooper shows (I think Bananas):
A contestant on Password + guessed "What is gymnastics?" when it was her turn to guess the puzzle. Allen, slightly annoyed, says "Did you say 'What is gymnastics?' This is not Jeopardy! But we all still love you, J!" He then asks, "Is it Jeopardy? No!" [buzz] He then asks if it was gymnastics, but it wasn't.
I also know there was a recent SP where a show-offy contestant was constantly guessing "What is ______?"
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[quote name=\'DrBear\' post=\'148796\' date=\'Mar 22 2007, 11:47 AM\']
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'148795\' date=\'Mar 22 2007, 10:38 AM\'] [quote name=\'gsfreak82\' post=\'148788\' date=\'Mar 22 2007, 05:58 AM\']
There was one occasion on $ale where a contestant answers What is Aspestis? and Jim says uh I give up what is aspestis no aspestis is right. I'm gonna have to grow that mustasche one of these days.
[/quote]
Best. Post. EVAR. [/quote]
Why do I hear it being read in the same tone of voice as "This one time, at band camp..."?
[/quote]
That works, but I was actually thinking more like "OK so one time Randy Beeman's mom got stuck in washing machine and..." :-)
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+1, Animaniacs.
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Didn't they make the contestants wear dunce caps for answering in the form of a question on Win Ben Stein's Money?
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[quote name=\'PYLclark86\' post=\'148830\' date=\'Mar 22 2007, 07:31 PM\']
Didn't they make the contestants wear dunce caps for answering in the form of a question on Win Ben Stein's Money?
[/quote]
Yes.
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There was also one time during a V-Day celeb couples special on Donnymid where Rosa Blasi's husband, Jim Finn, proceeded to make his guesses during a Winner's Circle in the form of a question...one wonders why she couldn't have just straight-out told him "this isn't J!" or something, might've meant a little more money for their charity.
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby")
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[quote name=\'ChuckNet\' post=\'148834\' date=\'Mar 22 2007, 07:40 PM\']
There was also one time during a V-Day celeb couples special on Donnymid where Rosa Blasi's husband, Jim Finn, proceeded to make his guesses during a Winner's Circle in the form of a question...one wonders why she couldn't have just straight-out told him "this isn't J!" or something, might've meant a little more money for their charity.
[/quote]
Then again, football players aren't always the best game show players (re: Reggie White on Celeb J!, missing a question on Cain and Abel...considering he was an ordained minister, it was a little surprising for me to see).
(For those of you who have never heard of Jim Finn, he's a fullback soon to be a former New York Giant, if you believe what certain people have said.)
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[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'148784\' date=\'Mar 22 2007, 07:47 AM\']
What exactly gives you this inclination (and why is it that big of a deal)? [/quote]
I've noticed that questions that don't start with "what is...", "who is...", etc. are more likely to provoke Jeopardese responses, as they tend to sound more like J! clues. Not to say that questions posed as questions won't result in Jeopardese responses, but if it sounds like a J! clue, more people are likely to respond as if it were.
How this relates to Temptation: if the Aussie version is any indication, there are some questions out there like "Add a letter to (word) to get..." that, if brought over to the US version, would be more likely to produce a Jeopardese response.
My point in all this (and thank you for patiently waiting for me to stop rambling and get to it) is that these other quiz shows, especially the three-people-with-buzzers variety, aren't trying to be J!. Over the years, J! made such an impact on these other shows that contestants, when faced with bright lights and the prospect of thousands, even millions of people watching, forget what show they're on. IMO, that diminishes the other shows' identities just a little bit each time.
[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'148800\' date=\'Mar 22 2007, 11:20 AM\'] The 'Jeopardy Effect' is actually not a bad term for a very real phenomenon. (Not surprisingly, we get it on QuizBusters fairly often as well.) Still, it's hardly a problem, and I'm not sure why you think Temptation would have to 'prepare' for it, unless you're hoping that they'll have some kind of planned humorous response the way that Ben and Jimmy did.[/quote]
I'm mainly referring to how the host in particular is going to have to prepare for it. The producers, in turn, should make sure he's ready for it and can respond either humorously or (at least) professionally. The examples given here of occurrences on other shows would make for a great guide to any rookie game show host.
[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'148800\' date=\'Mar 22 2007, 11:20 AM\']I'm also guessing that you misread Pat Finn's reaction, because genuinely becoming irritated about it is just about the worst possible response, and Finn was smarter than that. [/quote]
Granted, that was almost half a lifetime ago when I saw it. For some reason, I thought he could've handled it better, by either making light of the situation, or if he couldn't, save the admonishment for the break (I remember this is how Marc handled the situation on the episode of History IQ that I mentioned). While Pat did keep his composure as a professional should, there was just something I recall about the way he said "this isn't Jeopardy."
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Add one more. The one time I watched Wordplay, it was a problem. I've often thought some show should add a penalty for phrasing your response that way.
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[quote name=\'Jay Temple\' post=\'148849\' date=\'Mar 22 2007, 08:30 PM\']Add one more. The one time I watched Wordplay, it was a problem. I've often thought some show should add a penalty for phrasing your response that way.[/quote]I thought about this too, but then figured things out. In penalizing players (any moreso than Ben's Money did, anyhow) will cause bad feelings among players and the audience, and the audience is going to think that the show is incredibly anal or stuffy to do something like that. Better to laugh it off with a joke, or to weed those people out during the testing. (I read somewhere that the Card Sharks folks would show the door to people who opted to "stay" instead of "freeze" during the front game when everyone was in the mock game pre-show testing.)
I see absolutely no upside to this. At all. If someone can come up with something, I'd love to hear it.
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Then there was the first season of "Debt," which paid homage to (or ripped off) the J! style with the "I am, you are" format. Was there any reason why that was scrapped?
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[quote name=\'Jay Temple\' post=\'148849\' date=\'Mar 22 2007, 10:30 PM\']
I've often thought some show should add a penalty for phrasing your response that way.
[/quote]
I know that the current College Bowl format doesn't allow it in competition.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'148998\' date=\'Mar 25 2007, 12:50 AM\']
Then there was the first season of "Debt," which paid homage to (or ripped off) the J! style with the "I am, you are" format. Was there any reason why that was scrapped?
[/quote]
No doubt for the same reason the game board got changed--too close for comfort on a show produced by Disney and airing on a Disney-co-owned cable network where the show they're affectionately sending up is one of the breadwinners of stations owned by Disney.
Erring on the side of caution and all that.
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[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'148845\' date=\'Mar 22 2007, 08:37 PM\']
(For those of you who have never heard of Jim Finn, he's a fullback soon to be a former New York Giant, if you believe what certain people have said.)
[/quote]
That's irrelevant.
/Those of you who follow the NFL religiously might get that.
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[quote name=\'rollercoaster87\' post=\'149035\' date=\'Mar 26 2007, 11:51 AM\']
[quote name=\'Jay Temple\' post=\'148849\' date=\'Mar 22 2007, 10:30 PM\']
I've often thought some show should add a penalty for phrasing your response that way.
[/quote]
I know that the current College Bowl format doesn't allow it in competition.[/quote]
I'm not finding anything about that in their official rules (http://\"http://www.collegebowl.com/pub/gamerules.pdf\"), and it makes precious little sense that they would rule somebody wrong for phrasing an otherwise correct response that way. I'm not saying you're wrong, but as someone with more than a passing interest in quiz bowl competiton, I'd be very interested in finding out how you know this to be true.
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Veering, Why aren't other questions acceptable as J! responses? "Grant's Tomb?" is a valid question, but unacceptable.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'149045\' date=\'Mar 26 2007, 02:01 PM\']
[quote name=\'rollercoaster87\' post=\'149035\' date=\'Mar 26 2007, 11:51 AM\']
[quote name=\'Jay Temple\' post=\'148849\' date=\'Mar 22 2007, 10:30 PM\']
I've often thought some show should add a penalty for phrasing your response that way.
[/quote]
I know that the current College Bowl format doesn't allow it in competition.[/quote]
I'm not finding anything about that in their official rules (http://\"http://www.collegebowl.com/pub/gamerules.pdf\"), and it makes precious little sense that they would rule somebody wrong for phrasing an otherwise correct response that way. I'm not saying you're wrong, but as someone with more than a passing interest in quiz bowl competiton, I'd be very interested in finding out how you know this to be true.
[/quote]
I concur with Matt on this one. I just participated in a Regional College Bowl tournament and one person on my team phrased his answer in the form of a question and got a tiny chuckle. There was no penalty given in the process for phrasing it in the form of a question.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'149048\' date=\'Mar 26 2007, 02:14 PM\']
Veering, Why aren't other questions acceptable as J! responses? "Grant's Tomb?" is a valid question, but unacceptable.
[/quote]
I've always understood that a response that is already a question is acceptable (Example: "What's up, Doc?" is an acceptable response for "Bugs Bunny first spoke this catch phrase in 1940's 'A Wild Hare'", "How Do You Mend a Broken Heart" to "This was the last Bee Gees number one single before they went disco"). I assume that the rationale has always been that inflection is not enough--if it was, everyone would give their responses that way.
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[quote name=\'rebelwrest\' post=\'149050\' date=\'Mar 26 2007, 03:22 PM\']
I concur with Matt on this one. I just participated in a Regional College Bowl tournament and one person on my team phrased his answer in the form of a question and got a tiny chuckle. There was no penalty given in the process for phrasing it in the form of a question.
[/quote]
However, if I was moderating, and you gave an answer to a title with Jeopardy phrasing, you would be wrong, since you just gave me an incorrect title.
Since I so rarely do newbie/low-level competitions anymore, I would have to say I haven't seen this in years. High school coaches can drill this out of the player pretty quickly.
--Mike
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I assume that the rationale has always been that inflection is not enough--if it was, everyone would give their responses that way.
I also remember one contestant, not too long ago, was struggling to find the answer (in what might have been a Daily Double) and said "...is it xxx?" Alex hesitated for a second and stated since he did phrase it as a question they'd give it to him.
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[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'149056\' date=\'Mar 26 2007, 04:06 PM\']However, if I was moderating, and you gave an answer to a title with Jeopardy phrasing, you would be wrong, since you just gave me an incorrect title.[/quote]
With the utmost respect to Mr. Burger, if the intent (and the mistake) is clear, I don't see why a title ought to be treated any differently than any other answer. I can't imagine ruling against a player who used the bad phrasing under any circumstances, though truth be told, QuizBusters is for the most part an example of the "low-level" competitions Mike's talking about, so being liberal is probably a good thing.
Still, this could be our answer. Even though the College Bowl rules don't specifically address the "Jeopardy Effect" (and for that matter, neither do the NAQT (http://\"http://www.naqt.com/rules.html\") rules), an individual moderator might interpret existing rules in such a way as to rule against a player who did it. rollercoaster87 may have witnessed something like that at a competition and understood it to mean that there was a standardized rule in place.
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I play for the Honda Campus All Star Challenge (run by the College Bowl Company). We have been told on numerous occasions that answering in the "Jeopardy format" would be counted wrong. I just had a second to read through the rules. It does not say anything about being penalized for answering in that format, so I apologize for the error. We're going to nationals in two weeks, so I thank you for bringing this to my attention (which, as a captain, I should have verified on my own beforehand).
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[quote name=\'rollercoaster87\' post=\'149066\' date=\'Mar 26 2007, 05:30 PM\']
We have been told on numerous occasions that answering in the "Jeopardy format" would be counted wrong.
[/quote]
I guess my last question would be: By whom? Because if it's a tournament organizer or some other official, then you'd better pay attention, since that might be a "house rules" thing that you're going to have to deal with. If it was your coach, maybe that's the way (as Mike suggested) that he's chosen to break you of the habit.
Keep in mind that if Mike would rule you wrong in certain circumstances (i.e. titles) then there might be other moderators who would do the same, or something similar. I still maintain that it's an awfully picky thing to do, but in the end, not giving into the "Jeopardy Effect" is probably going to be your best defense.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'149065\' date=\'Mar 26 2007, 05:16 PM\']
[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'149056\' date=\'Mar 26 2007, 04:06 PM\']However, if I was moderating, and you gave an answer to a title with Jeopardy phrasing, you would be wrong, since you just gave me an incorrect title.[/quote]
With the utmost respect to Mr. Burger, if the intent (and the mistake) is clear, I don't see why a title ought to be treated any differently than any other answer. I can't imagine ruling against a player who used the bad phrasing under any circumstances, though truth be told, QuizBusters is for the most part an example of the "low-level" competitions Mike's talking about, so being liberal is probably a good thing.
[/quote]
Actually, I would consider Quizbusters mid-level. Low-level is either an IM tournament or a charity tournament, situations where the players generally don't play regularly and their only exposure to a Q&A format game is probably Jeopardy!. What I'm about to say may eliminate any chance I have to be a substitute host when Matt can't fit in a QB taping session when Channel 47 starts Mid-Michigan Morning with Matt starting with the May sweeps.
Backhandedly, the NAQT rules address it under I-1-3 (remember, a lawyer wrote this): Extraneous information preceding a response is disregarded (e.g., What is a wombat? or They're all Californians), unless the moderator determines that the extraneous information was given in an unsporting attempt to delay the game
So, the Jeopardy style in *most cases* is OK.
However, I-1-12 Titles of works must be exact, except that leading articles may be omitted
is where I would have to get picky on the title. Not that I'm terribly thrilled with the inconsistency between this and what's above, but if leeway in titles has to be given here, it would have to be given in other instances. Sorry if I sounded a little too gleeful in a previous post that I would be happy to call anyone wrong. I hate doing that.
Like most things in life, we have to have 30+ exceptions to the rule since "there was an incident", and even I don't agree with every rule that I would have to enforce during a game (like #24).
For the players on the board, remember the simple rule, don't answer anymore than you have to.
--Mike
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[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'149075\' date=\'Mar 26 2007, 10:47 PM\']
Actually, I would consider Quizbusters mid-level. [/quote]
Clearly, you have not seen many early-round games.
[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'149075\' date=\'Mar 26 2007, 10:47 PM\']
What I'm about to say may eliminate any chance I have to be a substitute host when Matt can't fit in a QB taping session when Channel 47 starts Mid-Michigan Morning with Matt starting with the May sweeps.[/quote]
Don't worry, thirty years from now when I go in for my triple-bypass surgery, I'll make sure you're on the guest-host list.
Right after Hondo.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'149097\' date=\'Mar 27 2007, 05:28 PM\']
[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'149075\' date=\'Mar 26 2007, 10:47 PM\']
Actually, I would consider Quizbusters mid-level. [/quote]
Clearly, you have not seen many early-round games.[/quote]
I've done many a JV high school game, including one 12-question mini-game that had to go into overtime because we were tied at 0.
[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'149097\' date=\'Mar 27 2007, 05:28 PM\']
[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'149075\' date=\'Mar 26 2007, 10:47 PM\']
What I'm about to say may eliminate any chance I have to be a substitute host when Matt can't fit in a QB taping session when Channel 47 starts Mid-Michigan Morning with Matt starting with the May sweeps.[/quote]
Don't worry, thirty years from now when I go in for my triple-bypass surgery, I'll make sure you're on the guest-host list.
Right after Hondo.
[/quote]
As long as I'm before Skubick.
--Mike