The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: Matt Ottinger on January 24, 2007, 11:31:54 AM
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The syndicator's site has a little bit of information about the new show Merv is pitching.
http://www.programpartners.com/program_sub...hisProgramID=19 (http://\"http://www.programpartners.com/program_sub.php?thisType=Overview&thisProgramID=19\")
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'144347\' date=\'Jan 24 2007, 10:31 AM\']
The syndicator's site has a little bit of information about the new show Merv is pitching.
http://www.programpartners.com/program_sub...hisProgramID=19 (http://\"http://www.programpartners.com/program_sub.php?thisType=Overview&thisProgramID=19\")
[/quote]
So Merv's not reinventing the, excuse the expression, wheel, but wants to deliver an old-fashioned, (hopefully) solidly-crafted game show where the material, structure and returning champions will bring people back.
There is a lot to be said for that. Whether he can do it with a small syndicator remains to be seen--however, if Program Partners can prod the stations taking the "DeGrassi" reruns to take this show, as well, they may find a niche. (Personally, I think that "DeGrassi" has found its American audience on The N and will not get more viewers in broadcast.) I have the feeling that they may be run over by another fast-paced Q&A with a lot more potential glitz (not to mention a big syndicator that's part of a company that owns stations), that being "Temptation."
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[quote name=\'uncamark\' post=\'144352\' date=\'Jan 24 2007, 11:14 AM\']
[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'144347\' date=\'Jan 24 2007, 10:31 AM\']
The syndicator's site has a little bit of information about the new show Merv is pitching.
http://www.programpartners.com/program_sub...hisProgramID=19 (http://\"http://www.programpartners.com/program_sub.php?thisType=Overview&thisProgramID=19\")
[/quote]
So Merv's not reinventing the, excuse the expression, wheel, but wants to deliver an old-fashioned, (hopefully) solidly-crafted game show where the material, structure and returning champions will bring people back.
There is a lot to be said for that. Whether he can do it with a small syndicator remains to be seen--however, if Program Partners can prod the stations taking the "DeGrassi" reruns to take this show, as well, they may find a niche. (Personally, I think that "DeGrassi" has found its American audience on The N and will not get more viewers in broadcast.) I have the feeling that they may be run over by another fast-paced Q&A with a lot more potential glitz (not to mention a big syndicator that's part of a company that owns stations), that being "Temptation."
[/quote]
Add that WMA is behind it as well (and of course, Marc Berman RAVES about it so it has a chance, right?)...
...and for those of you that work in TV (Chris) and have access to a WB Digital receiver, there's a preview feed Monday at 6a Eastern on Galaxy 16/Tr. 6/Channel 4. Count me in as interested... but there's going to have to be a fine line between "hard quiz" and something that everyone can play.
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Quote from the trailer:
"The following contains a state of the art CGI animatic presentation..."
From that, may I assume that Merv has been working on this show ever since Tron was originally in theaters?
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I prefer the format of "That's the Question" to this based on the trailer I saw on the Web site.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'144347\' date=\'Jan 24 2007, 11:31 AM\']
The syndicator's site has a little bit of information about the new show Merv is pitching.
[/quote]
Not just a little bit of information, a CGI mock-up trailer for the show. Fascinating, particularly that the voices sound (to me) machine-generated. Why not get four people into a green-screen room, tape them playing the game (or script the whole thing, if desired), and then render the set and gameboard for the trailer?
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[quote name=\'Clay Zambo\' post=\'144412\' date=\'Jan 24 2007, 11:16 PM\']
Fascinating, particularly that the voices sound (to me) machine-generated.[/quote]
Machine-generated's right; that Tom guy sounded like a Speak & Spell.
[quote name=\'Clay Zambo\' post=\'144412\' date=\'Jan 24 2007, 11:16 PM\']
Why not get four people into a green-screen room, tape them playing the game (or script the whole thing, if desired), and then render the set and gameboard for the trailer?
[/quote]
Good idea, but that might still require some props, like actual podiums to stand behind. Guess they thought going this route would save them the trouble of building anything.
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I just watched the trailer. The format looks appealing, and the play-along factor seems to hit home.
Only time will tell,
-Dan
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It's a little hard to take anything seriously when presented in that form . . . but give that show a good writing staff (actual crossword constructors wouldn't hurt, if just for the clues) and smart contestants, and I'm probably watching it faithfully. The first round is pointless gameplay-wise, but maybe it's there as a nod to crossword solving often being a collaborative activity?
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[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' post=\'144421\' date=\'Jan 24 2007, 10:59 PM\']
The first round is pointless gameplay-wise, but maybe it's there as a nod to crossword solving often being a collaborative activity?
[/quote]
If for no other reason, it's there so they can use that WAY COOL effect where they split the thing up into three podiums. :)
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[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' post=\'144421\' date=\'Jan 25 2007, 01:59 AM\']
...but give that show a good writing staff (actual crossword constructors wouldn't hurt, if just for the clues)[/quote]
Paging the Brothers Mackey...
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Merv & Co. are pitching this hard. There are full page ads in many of the TV trades lately, and lots of leaderboards and other ads on websites of the same TV trades. Now that I am back in TV and am checking these sites and newsletters daily, LPC ads are pretty much all I've been seeing. I hope the show works out - TV could use a (another) great word game. (Not sure about the title though.)
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Not seeing anything in print or video, when I heard about this show, the first thing that popped into my head was "they're bringing back Crosswits".
Is this a cross between Crosswits and Scrabble???
On a side note: Now that Ralph Edwards has gone over the rainbow to see Judy and Toto, any clue to whether the Edwards library will be opened? Who owns the rights?
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[quote name=\'toddyo\' post=\'144443\' date=\'Jan 25 2007, 08:15 AM\']
Is this a cross between Crosswits and Scrabble???
[/quote]
Only in the sense that all three use crosswords as a theme. Otherwise, no.
And yeah, the name sucks. And I'm not sure that I'm thrilled that the pitch video just SCREAMS "virtual set for the final product."
But goddamn if that podium-splitting thing isn't cool. :)
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The gameplay may not be much now, but I was impressed by the use of Poser animation. (I've used only the first five versions of Poser; Merv must have bought a copy of Poser 7.) I assume that they intend to add colors and textures to the host and contestants in a later animatic?
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[quote name=\'toddyo\' post=\'144443\' date=\'Jan 25 2007, 10:15 AM\']
Not seeing anything in print or video, when I heard about this show, the first thing that popped into my head was "they're bringing back Crosswits".
Is this a cross between Crosswits and Scrabble???
On a side note: Now that Ralph Edwards has gone over the rainbow to see Judy and Toto, any clue to whether the Edwards library will be opened? Who owns the rights?
[/quote]
Ralph Edwards Productions is still in business, run by his son Gary--they still do "People's Court" with Stu Billett. They seem to own most of what they produced that is intact, but since for all intents and purposes they were out of the game show business after 1980 (and the reality they did was not competition), GSN wouldn't be interested.
As for the formats, they sold "NTT" to Sandy Frank a long time ago and it would seem to me that someone else holds the "Cross-Wits" format. Of what's remaining (outside, of course, of non-game show "This is Your Life"), "T or C" is the most well-known property. They licensed it out to Fremantle a couple of years ago, but it didn't go anywhere. And personally, I'm not sure if "T or C" could fly in today's market, even if done like the Brits did it in the early 80s as "Game For a Laugh," which was more like "Real People" than "T or C."
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I wonder if GSN would be interested in "Bzzz!" from the Ralph Edwards portfolio? "Let's Play Crosswords" sounds like something that might have been said at one point to Deney Terio.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'144445\' date=\'Jan 25 2007, 11:27 AM\']
But goddamn if that podium-splitting thing isn't cool. :)
[/quote]
Well, potentially cool. After all, you could see the "score displays" on the tops of the left and right sections when the whole deal was folded together--which made me think, "Why do they have players facing away from each other?"
Now, if the real deal--not a virtual version thereof--actually shows the podia move into its new positions, rather than having stagehands move it during a stopdown that lasts 22 minutes, then, yeah, I'll go with you that it's cool. ;)
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[quote name=\'Clay Zambo\' post=\'144463\' date=\'Jan 25 2007, 11:26 AM\']
Well, potentially cool. After all, you could see the "score displays" on the tops of the left and right sections when the whole deal was folded together--which made me think, "Why do they have players facing away from each other?"
[/quote]
This is why I have the "virtual studio" fear. I'm almost certain that would have the three of them looking down at a game monitor.
actually shows the podia move into its new positions, rather than having stagehands move it during a stopdown that lasts 22 minutes, then, yeah, I'll go with you that it's cool. ;)
Well, that's what I'm banking on. If it's an over-the-break thing, then, yes, idiotic.
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Odd that I provided the link, but didn't even watch the video myself until now.
There are a lot of things to like. Cruciverbalists will like the fact that they work off a real, symmetrical grid. The clues in the example weren't particularly clever (good writers could fix that), but they certainly were crossword-style, IMO an underused form of question writing in our genre. I'm not thrilled with the way-easy bonus game (the mistake they included was laughable) but that could be adjusted with more words to solve or less time to do it in.
Also, when they refer to "hard quiz", I think what they mean is that it's a straight-quiz format, not that it's necessarily "difficult". On a difficulty level, this would fit somewhere between Wheel and Jeopardy. You need to be sharp, and a sharp player will usually win, but you don't need to have encyclopedic knowledge. The good news there is that an average viewer will find it more accessible than Jeopardy.
Hope it gets picked up.
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[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' post=\'144421\' date=\'Jan 25 2007, 01:59 AM\']
It's a little hard to take anything seriously when presented in that form . . . but give that show a good writing staff (actual crossword constructors wouldn't hurt, if just for the clues) and smart contestants, and I'm probably watching it faithfully. The first round is pointless gameplay-wise, but maybe it's there as a nod to crossword solving often being a collaborative activity?
[/quote]
But it's been going on for years. "Honey, what's a four letter word for 'low digits'?"
The idea of people working together as teammates first, then as opponents, has been done before ("Now You See It").
I'd like to see first if it goes to series. Then, thoughts about how to go about getting the material will materialize.
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Not to be a naysayer, but am I the only one who didn't see anything clever here except for the lecturns splitting apart?
The clues here don't seem much different than the ones on "Monopoly." Where, as the network guy once famously said, are the jeopardies? At least they could ditch the CGI and play on a lit-up dry-erase board and let a hot model write the clues in with magic marker (as in the TPIR crossword showcase).
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[quote name=\'Neumms\' post=\'144482\' date=\'Jan 25 2007, 03:19 PM\']
Where, as the network guy once famously said, are the jeopardies?
[/quote]
The show isn't called Jeopardy.
At least they could ditch the CGI and play on a lit-up dry-erase board and let a hot model write the clues in with magic marker (as in the TPIR crossword showcase).
You're not serious.
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[quote name=\'davemackey\' post=\'144472\' date=\'Jan 25 2007, 04:07 PM\']But it's been going on for years. "Honey, what's a four letter word for 'low digits'?"[/quote]
Well, yes. I'm confused as to what the "but" is a reaction to--I meant that collaborating on a crossword seems like an unlikely explanation for the first round format, not that the collaboration itself is unlikely.
The idea of people working together as teammates first, then as opponents, has been done before ("Now You See It").
Again, yes. But on NYSI, the teammates were all trying to eliminate their opponents so they could move on. In the first round of Crosswords, the players are not accomplishing anything towards their ultimate goal--a tie at $0 is almost always the same strategically as a tie at $700, and they're playing for a lot more money than that by the time they're through.
I also wondered if it might be a strategy to acclimate the players to the game, but I'm not sure someone who's not that good at this game is going to improve much after playing just a few words.
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Call me crazy (YOU'RE CRAZY!!!), but I actually like the fact that the material provided (gasp!) stumped me. Then again, one of the most popular game shows on now involves picking numbers for a million dollars, while jumping around yelling at the top of your lungs.
In other words, will this be too hard for Joe 6-pack?
" 'Operatic barber'? Aw, hell, lemme check out what's on Wheel...the puzzle is 'MY HAIRY AUNT'!"
I'm scared about this having the potential for a virtual set. Should it go to series, they could honestly use something similar to the big honkin video screen behind the Wheel contestants.
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[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' post=\'144500\' date=\'Jan 25 2007, 04:19 PM\']
but I'm not sure someone who's not that good at this game is going to improve much after playing just a few words.
[/quote]
It is my fervent hope that, coming from the man who invented Jeopardy, someone who's not good at the game is weeded out of the contestant selection process before they even get in front of a camera. This isn't Endemol we're talking about, here.
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This seems to be my thread for minor misunderstandings. I wouldn't expect these folks to get Endemol-level contestants. That was just the hypothetical shooting down of my hypothetical justification.
Hypothetically.
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'144502\' date=\'Jan 25 2007, 07:29 PM\']
Call me crazy (YOU'RE CRAZY!!!), but I actually like the fact that the material provided (gasp!) stumped me.
[/quote]
The nice thing about well-written crossword clues is that even when you're stumped, the right answer makes sense to you when you see it (and think about it). That's an edge something like this has over a pure question-answer game that just tests knowledge.
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[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' post=\'144500\' date=\'Jan 25 2007, 07:19 PM\']
In the first round of Crosswords, the players are not accomplishing anything towards their ultimate goal[/quote]
Which, sadly, could be said of the first round of lots of games: cf. Family Feud, or even the early part of Jeopardy.
I have to think that Merv and company will make this round count for more than a time-filler, but I don't know how it will be. Still, I'm looking forward to this: seems much more to my liking than Cross-Wits was.
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[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' post=\'144500\' date=\'Jan 25 2007, 07:19 PM\']
In the first round of Crosswords, the players are not accomplishing anything towards their ultimate goal[/quote]
Which, sadly, could be said of the first round of lots of games: cf. Family Feud, or even the early part of Jeopardy.
I have to think that Merv and company will make this round count for more than a time-filler, but I don't know how it will be. Still, I'm looking forward to this: seems much more to my liking than Cross-Wits was.
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[quote name=\'Clay Zambo\' post=\'144537\' date=\'Jan 25 2007, 10:27 PM\']
Still, I'm looking forward to this: seems much more to my liking than Cross-Wits was.
[/quote]
I'm excited as well, maybe because I know Merv is behind it (Click deserves a second chance!), but this show has a lot of potential. Cross-Wits and Scrabble both proved that a crossword-based game show can work if executed correctly.
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[quote name=\'davemackey\' post=\'144472\' date=\'Jan 25 2007, 01:07 PM\']The idea of people working together as teammates first, then as opponents, has been done before ("Now You See It").[/quote]Personally, I thought the "turning on your teammates" bit was used to better effect on Trivia Trap. Yeah, everything's nice and fluffy happy, but when the cash turns from $1,000 to $10,000, everyone is out for blood. :)
Am I the only person who has thought of the problem of how the host will transition from the introduction to the playing of the game? "Let's play 'Let's Play Crosswords!" sounds weird.
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'144557\' date=\'Jan 25 2007, 09:20 PM\']
Am I the only person who has thought of the problem of how the host will transition from the introduction to the playing of the game? "Let's play 'Let's Play Crosswords!" sounds weird.
[/quote]
I'm gonna guess he'll just say "Let's Play Crosswords!"
(I'm further starting to think that "Crosswords" might have been the original working title and that it changed when a legal search turned up rights issues. Strictly a guess, but it's the only way they would go with such a silly title.)
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I would have gone with "Word for Word," since he already had a show by that title 40+ years ago. I doubt anyone in the desired demographic (or today's station programming managers) would remember it had been used before.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'144566\' date=\'Jan 25 2007, 11:31 PM\']
I would have gone with "Word for Word," since he already had a show by that title 40+ years ago. I doubt anyone in the desired demographic (or today's station programming managers) would remember it had been used before.
[/quote]
I agree, but I dunno that I'd go with that title. Clearly, they want to make sure that the title clearly communicates that it's specifically a crossword puzzle, to bring in fans of crosswords in general. So if you have to break up the word, it's more important to get the "Cross" part in there, I think.
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[quote name=\'Clay Zambo\' post=\'144535\' date=\'Jan 25 2007, 10:27 PM\']
[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' post=\'144500\' date=\'Jan 25 2007, 07:19 PM\']
In the first round of Crosswords, the players are not accomplishing anything towards their ultimate goal[/quote]
Which, sadly, could be said of the first round of lots of games: cf. Family Feud, or even the early part of Jeopardy.[/quote]
It could be said, but it wouldn't be accurate about those two games (not counting any format presided over by Louie Anderson, anyway). The early parts of those games have less importance, yes, but not zero importance. Body Language and Super Password would be two good examples, though.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'144486\' date=\'Jan 25 2007, 06:31 PM\']
[quote name=\'Neumms\' post=\'144482\' date=\'Jan 25 2007, 03:19 PM\']
Where, as the network guy once famously said, are the jeopardies?
[/quote]
The show isn't called Jeopardy.
At least they could ditch the CGI and play on a lit-up dry-erase board and let a hot model write the clues in with magic marker (as in the TPIR crossword showcase).
You're not serious.
[/quote]
Neither was Jeopardy before the guy said it--it was What's the Question? This game is crying out for something to break the monotony, like a Daily Double (but obviously not a Daily Double).
And I am serious. I grant you, it would have to be a hot model with good penmanship.
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[quote name=\'Neumms\' post=\'144822\' date=\'Jan 29 2007, 09:46 AM\']
And I am serious. I grant you, it would have to be a hot model with good penmanship.
[/quote]
Wow.
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If only that presentation had featured some sort of special clue that was worth more money to just one player . . .
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Maybe Merv could add a wagering feature, similar to the Lucky Chance in "Pat Sajak's Lucky Letters" at Big Fish Games (www.bigfishgames.com)?
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[quote name=\'JamesVipond\' post=\'144880\' date=\'Jan 29 2007, 03:24 PM\']
Maybe Merv could add a wagering feature, similar to the Lucky Chance in "Pat Sajak's Lucky Letters" at Big Fish Games (www.bigfishgames.com) MSN Games (http://zone.msn.com (http://\"http://zone.msn.com\"))?
[/quote]
There, fixed that for you. :)
/pimpin' ain't easy!