The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => Game Show Channels & Networks => Topic started by: Eric Paddon on September 11, 2006, 08:54:40 PM
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Recalling how that the only surviving episode of "Winning Streak" likely was spared because it had originally been pre-empted for news coverage of the Nixon resignation it occurred to me that that might well be a similar reason as to why this episode of "Password" was spared.
And a powerful case for this can be found in the date 10/23/73. On that day, in the wake of the "Saturday Night Massacre", Richard Nixon agreed to turn over the Watergate tapes to the judge presiding over the case after resisting for some time. ABC aired a late night prime-time special on the story but it's likely that if Nixon made the announcement earlier in the day (and it was covered on the regular evening news) then some markets likely had "Password" pre-empted that day and thus, the tape found itself spared.
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Nixon wasn't so bad after all!
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'131158\' date=\'Sep 11 2006, 08:14 PM\']
Nixon wasn't so bad after all!
[/quote]
Funny you should say that. The Rams' home opener aired locally only because Claire McCaskill, a candidate for U.S. Senate, bought about 100 tickets, putting it over the threshhold needed. With as many pre-emptions as politicians have caused over the years, it's nice to see one doing something to ensure that a program does air.
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Makes a lot of sense, Eric. You may have something there.
The way the networks handled daytime for Watergate was always fascinating to me...
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Bingo. All the networks covered it at noon. Now we need to find the Jeopardy, WWWG and Split Second episodes that were also pre-empted.
--Mike
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I'm being told by someone inside GSN that the episode comes from 1971 and was dubbed from the 2" air master. What does that do to the theories?
October 23rd would have been several months into the run of Match Game '73 and Brett became a regular pretty early on. Was ANY mention made of Match Game?
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'131217\' date=\'Sep 12 2006, 12:25 AM\']
What does that do to the theories?
[/quote]
It depends on whether someone was on the grassy knoll.
/Magic episode, perhaps?
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Hmm, I've gone back to the newspaperarchive.com website which is the only on-line resource I can consult for guest info on game shows (spottier when you get to the 70s) and it does indeed appear that the episode is from either December 1971 or June 1973 since a search engine reveals only those two time frames for them appearing on Password in the TV listings. So indeed, so much for that theory!
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'131217\' date=\'Sep 11 2006, 11:25 PM\']
October 23rd would have been several months into the run of Match Game '73 and Brett became a regular pretty early on. Was ANY mention made of Match Game?
[/quote]
No, and I specifically listened out for one. Plus she didn't act anything like her Match Game persona which leads me to believe she hadn't appeared on the show yet or perhaps it hadn't even premiered.
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I did a bit of poking around the ABC Password page, and now I'm also beginning to think that the episode may have come from 1971.
The only week in 1971 that Jack & Brett appeared on together was Dec. 6-10. At the beginning of the show, Allen made a slight reference to the Password ep. of "The Odd Couple". He said something to Jack along the lines of "Is Brett a better game player than Tony Randall?" That episode of Odd Couple aired on Dec. 1, 1971...just a week before. The episode would be fresh in everyone's minds, and it would make more sense to make a reference to a recent episode of Odd Couple than one from two years prior.
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According to back issues of TV Guide, they appeared the aformentioned Dec 6-10/71 and Oct 22-26/73, so without the GSN confirmation, the theory would have held water. Now, just what happened on 12/7/71????
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A 30th anniversary Pearl Harbor special?
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Well, I'll go along with the revised date-- given the nature of the patter between the Klugmans and Allen, it's pretty obvious that this was one of their first appearances on the show, which means it has to be December of 1971. The halfway reference to the recent "Odd Couple" Password ep, and Allen's stumbling intro of Dr. Stockwell would all seem to bear that out, too.
My apologies for the initial incorrect dating-- I had been checking the ABC Password pages as well, and somehow just managed to thoroughly miss the December '71 appearance by Jack & Brett.
-Kevin
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[quote name=\'TwoInchQuad\' post=\'131234\' date=\'Sep 12 2006, 02:26 AM\']
My apologies for the initial incorrect dating-- I had been checking the ABC Password pages as well, and somehow just managed to thoroughly miss the December '71 appearance by Jack & Brett.
[/quote]
Have we figured out a day of the week yet? It's apparently not Monday as they've already played at least once, and it's apparently not Friday as they told us to tune in tomorrow. I'm leaning toward Wednesday?
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'131228\' date=\'Sep 12 2006, 12:53 AM\']
According to back issues of TV Guide, they appeared the aformentioned Dec 6-10/71 and Oct 22-26/73, so without the GSN confirmation, the theory would have held water. [/quote]
Keep in mind, TV Guide back issues from back then are notoriously unreliable for game show celebrity listings. Newspapers are actually more reliable. I found that out the hard way when I started compiling my Hollywood Squares celebrity list. TV Guide needed more publication lead time than the newspapers, so it was more likely a guest would cancel after they went to press.
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[quote name=\'cweaver\' post=\'131243\' date=\'Sep 12 2006, 08:29 AM\']
Have we figured out a day of the week yet? It's apparently not Monday as they've already played at least once, and it's apparently not Friday as they told us to tune in tomorrow. I'm leaning toward Wednesday?
[/quote]
Allen's first words were "Happy Tuesday" to you.
For those of you who have the original (and you know who you are), could you watch the credits for us, tell us "what was coming up next", and get this over with.
--Mike
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'131217\' date=\'Sep 12 2006, 12:25 AM\']
I'm being told by someone inside GSN that the episode comes from 1971 and was dubbed from the 2" air master. What does that do to the theories?
October 23rd would have been several months into the run of Match Game '73 and Brett became a regular pretty early on. Was ANY mention made of Match Game?
[/quote]
Then it's 12-7-71. It was my second birthday present.
--Mike
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Bingo. All the networks covered it at noon. Now we need to find the Jeopardy, WWWG and Split Second episodes that were also pre-empted.
Or the High Rollers and Hollywood Squares episodes from Aug 9, 1974!
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I'm being told by someone inside GSN that the episode comes from 1971 and was dubbed from the 2" air master. What does that do to the theories?
I think this is an episode that GSN has had all along. When I got my letter from David Schwartz in 1996, which I've mentioned here several times in the past, he answered some questions about the status of certain shows. His response on the ABC Password: "only one 1971 episode has been found". Unless another one has turned up, it makes sense that this is from '71 and is THE episode.
Keep in mind, TV Guide back issues from back then are notoriously unreliable for game show celebrity listings. Newspapers are actually more reliable. I found that out the hard way when I started compiling my Hollywood Squares celebrity list. TV Guide needed more publication lead time than the newspapers, so it was more likely a guest would cancel after they went to press.
That's true, but I guess it depends on when the show was taped. I was surprised when the Battlestars episodes I saw in 1983 aired the very next week. TVGuide listed only four of the six celebrities, but one of them wasn't on the panel. For shows like Match Game, which usually taped several weeks in advance, there usually wasn't a problem.
It's interesting that TVGuide sometimes listed the celebrities as "Scheduled: " and sometimes not. I always thought it could mean those shows were due to be taped after they went to press.
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'131280\' date=\'Sep 12 2006, 04:18 PM\']I think this is an episode that GSN has had all along. When I got my letter from David Schwartz in 1996, which I've mentioned here several times in the past, he answered some questions about the status of certain shows. His response on the ABC Password: "only one 1971 episode has been found". Unless another one has turned up, it makes sense that this is from '71 and is THE episode.[/quote]
Naturally, the question that raises is how the other three from that era have made their way into collectors' hands. That's awfully early for them to have been home recorded, so you almost have to think that decent "master" copies must exist somewhere. I wonder why Fremantle (and Goodson before that) doesn't have them.
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In watching this episode, I noticed that Allen gave a total for the champion of $700. After winning $400 in the betting word, the total was announced as $1100, with no mention of money for a game win (compared to the $100/$250 in the CBS run). Did they stop doing that, or was it used at some point?
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This is pure conjecture, but as far as the final ABC Password is concerned (or the final ep of anything) would it be possible that a local station who delayed the broadcast might have used a fresh tape for the replacement program and thus put the last Password quad tape on a shelf somewhere?
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'131283\' date=\'Sep 12 2006, 04:34 PM\']
Naturally, the question that raises is how the other three from that era have made their way into collectors' hands. That's awfully early for them to have been home recorded, so you almost have to think that decent "master" copies must exist somewhere. I wonder why Fremantle (and Goodson before that) doesn't have them.
[/quote]
When you speak of the other three, you refer to the three that have been on the trade circuit for a while? The last show, along with the last Split Second from the same day as well as the last All-Stars always had the look of primitive off-air recordings to me, perhaps on someone using a U-matic but given how they had a KABC logo, they were not from the vault.
That would leave us to wonder where the heck the 75 show with Vicki Lawrence and Betty White came from.
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Without the tape in front of me mind you - I recall the Lawrence/White ep. behaving like a studio master. Other than Mark Goodson making a cameo, I have no other guess as to why it would've been spared.
-Jason
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I do know it has no commercials inserted in the segments where they would appear. Just a black screen during those segments.
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The 3/75 Lawrence/White "Password" show is from a studio master. No idea why it was saved, and no commercials included on the reel.
The "Password" & "Split Second" finales (which aired back-to-back) were indeed archived by a local station (for whatever reason), so they're aircheck recordings. Commercials included for those.
The two known orange set "Passwords" (TX dates: 12/7/71 and 2/14/72) are also both airchecks, commercials are on the reels.
Never seen the Password All-Stars ep that's floating around, so I can't comment on that.
-Kevin
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There are commercials in the last Password All-Stars. I can recheck to see if it had a KABC aircheck like the last show and last Split Second did.
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Nice to see you back, by the way, Eric... :^)
-Kevin
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My VCR did not record that night, so I did not get to see it.
Until now.
70s Password (http://\"http://www.classicgameshows.com/video/index.html\")
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[quote name=\'TwoInchQuad\' post=\'131310\' date=\'Sep 12 2006, 07:15 PM\']
The "Password" & "Split Second" finales (which aired back-to-back) were indeed archived by a local station (for whatever reason), so they're aircheck recordings. Commercials included for those.
[/quote]
Two questions, then, one a slight hijack, the other a bit more on-topic:
1) Is the material that UCLA has of the Split Second finale (located here) (http://\"http://cinema.library.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?v1=19&ti=1,19&Search%5FArg=Split%20Second&SL=None&Search%5FCode=FTIT&CNT=50&PID=n@?%5buL?Io@?%5btlCHnlcIxMOHm`?<&SEQ=20060912215725&SID=1\") the origin of the circulating material?
2) The 9/28/73 episode of "Password" availible for viewing at UCLA has the word "Saticoy" (and only that word) in its notes. Is there any explanation to its origins that that word denotes?
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1) Not according to the description of the contents of the rest of the tape.
2)Not sure about this, although Peter Bogdanovich had a company called Saticoy Productions that was out in the Valley at one point-- maybe this was an asset that got mis-labeled as one of theirs while it was housed in a storage area. In any event, it's a B&W 2" dub of that particular ep.
-Kevin
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[quote name=\'Allstar87\' post=\'131226\' date=\'Sep 12 2006, 01:32 AM\']
He said something to Jack along the lines of "Is Brett a better game player than Tony Randall?" That episode of Odd Couple aired on Dec. 1, 1971...just a week before.
[/quote]
Actually that episode aired on December 1, 1972. So that throws that theory out completely.
Greg
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[quote name=\'TwoInchQuad\' post=\'131315\' date=\'Sep 12 2006, 09:26 PM\']
Nice to see you back, by the way, Eric... :^)
-Kevin
[/quote]
Thanks. Nice to be back. :)
Eric
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[quote name=\'snowpeck\' post=\'131349\' date=\'Sep 13 2006, 01:59 AM\']
[quote name=\'Allstar87\' post=\'131226\' date=\'Sep 12 2006, 01:32 AM\']
He said something to Jack along the lines of "Is Brett a better game player than Tony Randall?" That episode of Odd Couple aired on Dec. 1, 1971...just a week before.
[/quote]
Actually that episode aired on December 1, 1972. So that throws that theory out completely.
[/quote]
However, the episode of Odd Couple that aired the week of this Password episode was Brett Somers' first apperance as Blanche.
--Mike
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Naturally, the question that raises is how the other three from that era have made their way into collectors' hands. That's awfully early for them to have been home recorded, so you almost have to think that decent "master" copies must exist somewhere. I wonder why Fremantle (and Goodson before that) doesn't have them.
It's been rumoured that masters of Password were used to record other shows (whether this is true or not, who knows). When a show was originally taped, wasn't there more than one master copy? Is it possible Goodson was re-using tapes with the assumption ABC was keeping at least one copy archived, and didn't know that they weren't being saved?
There are always scattered copies of shows that escape distruction. Series like Jackpot, Gambit, and more recently Blank Check have at least one episode existing.
The "Password" & "Split Second" finales (which aired back-to-back) were indeed archived by a local station (for whatever reason), so they're aircheck recordings. Commercials included for those.
Unfortunatly my copies have commercials edited out - but they do have the "It's a brand new day on ABC" promos, which are cool.
If this was an aircheck, I think we have the answer why GSN squeezed the credits. Obviously there was an announcer announcing upcoming shows - but that never stopped them previously. On the end of almost every CBS show from the '70s the announcer said "stay tuned for....next" - and they left those in.
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[quote name=\'snowpeck\' post=\'131349\' date=\'Sep 13 2006, 01:59 AM\']
[quote name=\'Allstar87\' post=\'131226\' date=\'Sep 12 2006, 01:32 AM\']
He said something to Jack along the lines of "Is Brett a better game player than Tony Randall?" That episode of Odd Couple aired on Dec. 1, 1971...just a week before.
[/quote]
Actually that episode aired on December 1, 1972. So that throws that theory out completely.
Greg
[/quote]
Oh, darn. That's what I get for not doing enough fact-checking.
Sorry 'bout that.
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'131359\' date=\'Sep 13 2006, 08:02 AM\']
If this was an aircheck, I think we have the answer why GSN squeezed the credits. Obviously there was an announcer announcing upcoming shows - but that never stopped them previously. On the end of almost every CBS show from the '70s the announcer said "stay tuned for....next" - and they left those in.
[/quote]
I mentioned in another post I thought the way the audio sounded suggested this was a network feed of some type, because that's how network feeds sounded pre-1978. I also suggested (though possibly not in this detail) if GSN hadn't squeezed the credits we might not only hear the show's announcer telling us what's up next, we might even hear the ABC announcer promo the prime time offerings. Since this was a Tuesday show, my money's on Marcus Welby.
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The difference though is that on the CBS game shows you were hearing the announcer, be it Johnny Olson on TPIR or Match Game making the announcement of what came next, and it wasn't some voiceover staff announcer doing it over the credits after the fact.
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In television, you should always have more than one tape machine recording, just in case something happens to one of the machines.
And I could imagine that if a show was shot in LA, two tapes of the show were always sent east to New York for their feed and vice versa. The only time the Eastern and Central time zones (and the Mountain, until the mid-70s) got a direct feed from LA was either for a live show or a live-on-tape show like Carson, which aired in the Eastern and Central time zones 90 minutes after taping was normally completed.
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I wanted to put in my two cents about which episode it is (71 or 73)
I believe that it is the episode from 1971. The reason being that I listened to the lightning rounds on the Elizabeth Mongomery website (which by the way is a 1973 episode a little while before Jack and Brett appear together) and also examined the celebrity archives for that time. If you listen carefully, the amounts were $100 per word (in the inital stage). In the GSN episode, the amounts were only $50/per word.
What do you think?
Cullenfields
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[quote name=\'Cullenfields\' post=\'131882\' date=\'Sep 17 2006, 10:07 PM\']
I believe that it is the episode from 1971...What do you think?
[/quote]
I think most of us have settled on this being from December 1971. The two most compelling pieces of evidence I've seen: an episode guide listing that date as their first appearance, and Bret appeared on The Odd Couple right about that time.
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[quote name=\'cweaver\' post=\'131994\' date=\'Sep 18 2006, 05:03 PM\']I think most of us have settled on this being from December 1971. The two most compelling pieces of evidence I've seen: an episode guide listing that date as their first appearance, and Bret appeared on The Odd Couple right about that time.[/quote]
Plus there's, you know, the guy from GSN telling us it's from 1971!
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'131998\' date=\'Sep 18 2006, 04:10 PM\']
Plus there's, you know, the guy from GSN telling us it's from 1971!
[/quote]
I know but there are a lot of people who wouldn't believe GSN if they told us the sky is blue, the grass is green, water is wet and we need air to survive. Not necessarily me mind you...
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I suspect there are at least 2 if not 3 copies made at the time of production.
First of all, you can't risk the tape being mangled on its way to NYC, however...
Before the era of satellite, shows were fed via phone lines to the stations via the network, as well as the cycling of tapes to Hawaii and Alaska, not to mention international markets.
I do recall from having seen the galaxy of CBS feeds (I don't know about ABC or NBC at the time), they do have a seperate Master Control at TV City.
For cost reasons alone (the phone lines from NYC to LA were not ovelry cost effective in the early 70s), I could guess that LA had its own master control that some network shows were fed from. There may have been a path from NYC -> LA and vice versa but I can bet that the affiliates on the Pacific Zone were fed from LA.
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I suspect there are at least 2 if not 3 copies made at the time of production.
First of all, you can't risk the tape being mangled on its way to NYC, however...
Before the era of satellite, shows were fed via phone lines to the stations via the network, as well as the cycling of tapes to Hawaii and Alaska, not to mention international markets.
I'm pretty sure there was more than one copy made too. There were also additional copies made by some TV stations that delayed the show and aired it at another time. In reading old TVGuides and seeing these listings, the thought has occurred to me that maybe a few of these missing shows could be at these stations; but you also have to consider that it's very unlikely any station in Alaska, Hawaii, or that tape-delayed the shows would hold onto the tape this long - unless it's totally by accident that a copy of a specific show or two might have survived "in the backroom somewhere".
I believe this is how a week of $20,000 Pyramid from 1977 with William Shatner and Leonard Nimoy exists in traders hands; but it's still the exception rather than the rule.
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I think it's the two $20K archival tapes from 1976 that survived that way (Swit-Davis; Worley-Randall). The Shatner-Nimoy is clearly an off-air recording.