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The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: J.R. on June 21, 2006, 02:06:38 AM

Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: J.R. on June 21, 2006, 02:06:38 AM
I notice many people here complain about the incredibly top heavy board. I do agree with the feelings somewhat. So, with nothing to do at the moment, I decided to create my own and get your thoughts and feelings on it. If you don't like it, think it's still too top heavy, think I'm a crazed fanboi and such, please don't hold back because I appreciate honesty. Thank you.

Here it is:

  1 - $0.01
  2 - $0.10
  3 - $0.25
  4 - $1
  5 - $5
  6 - $10
  7 - $20
  8 - $50
  9 - $100
10 - $250
11 - $500
12 - $750
13 - $1,000

14 - $2,500
15 - $5,000
16 - $10,000
17 - $15,000
18 - $20,000
19 - $30,000
20 - $40,000
21 - $50,000
22 - $100,000
23 - $200,000
24 - $350,000
25 - $500,000
26 - $1,000,000

-Joe R.
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: clemon79 on June 21, 2006, 02:10:50 AM
[quote name=\'JRaygor\' post=\'121982\' date=\'Jun 20 2006, 11:06 PM\']
  1 - $0.01
26 - $1,000,000
[/quote]
'Nuff said. Topheavy.

Hint: find an episode of the Australian version. Look at that board. Do that. So long as you insist on a million-dollar board and the Top 6 being six digits, your board is topheavy.
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: J.R. on June 21, 2006, 02:20:03 AM
Fair enough. I didn't think the definition of "top heavy" included the top prize. So, here is a readjusted board with the top prize reduced to $500,000:

1 - $0.01
2 - $0.10
3 - $0.25
4 - $1
5 - $5
6 - $10
7 - $20
8 - $50
9 - $100
10 - $250
11 - $500
12 - $750
13 - $1,000

14 - $2,500
15 - $5,000
16 - $7,500
17 - $10,000
18 - $15,000
19 - $20,000
20 - $30,000
21 - $40,000
22 - $50,000
23 - $100,000
24 - $150,000
25 - $250,000
26 - $500,000

Again, comments are welcome.
-Joe R.
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: TLEberle on June 21, 2006, 08:03:20 AM
[quote name=\'JRaygor\' post=\'121984\' date=\'Jun 20 2006, 11:20 PM\']
Fair enough. I didn't think the definition of "top heavy" included the top prize. [/quote]It does when you consider that the top seven prizes are more than $10,000. The Australian show has four 'green' prizes; if the US version were to go that way, the final four boxes would be $250,000-$375,000-$500,000-$1 million. And even that seems excessive. The British show has five 'top prizes' on the right side (though GBP 20,000 isn't anything to sneeze at). If the point of the game is to "keep the big ones in play," as the hosts tell their players, the impact of removing a $100k or more prize is lessened. When you only have four of 'em, losing even $75,000 is a big hit.

If the show were to have more prizes between $1,000 and $10,000, more prizes between $10,000 and $100,000; and fewer prizes from $100,000 to $1 million, it would improve my interest level greatly.
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: Jeremy Nelson on June 21, 2006, 10:51:20 AM
You know there's a problem with the board when someone uncovers the $100,000 prize and says "That's OK!"
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: Casey Buck on June 21, 2006, 11:11:27 AM
How does this board sound? There's only 4 amounts between $100K and $1M, and there's some shades of the UK Deal board amounts on here as well.

1- .01¢
2- .10¢
3- .50¢
4- $1
5- $5
6- $10
7- $25
8- $50
9- $100
10- $250
11- $500
12- $750
13- $1,000

14- $2,000
15- $3,000
16- $5,000
17- $7,500
18- $10,000
19- $20,000
20- $35,000
21- $50,000
22- $75,000
23- $100,000
24- $250,000
25- $500,000
26- $1,000,000
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: Dbacksfan12 on June 21, 2006, 11:26:59 AM
Something in which the house advantage is always above the player's.  However, I don't have a strong mathematical aptitude.  That said, I guess I would propose this board:

1-Nothing
2-25¢
3-$1
4-$10
5-$25
6-$50
7-$100
8-$250
9-$500
10-$750
11-$1000
12-$1500
13-$2000
14-$2500
15-$3500
16-$5000
17-$6000
18-$7000
19-$10,000
20-$25,000
21-$50,000
22-$70,000
23-$100,000
24-$250,001
25-$400,000
26-$750,000
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: aaron sica on June 21, 2006, 12:12:42 PM
[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'122000\' date=\'Jun 21 2006, 11:26 AM\']
Something in which the house advantage is always above the player's.  However, I don't have a strong mathematical aptitude.  That said, I guess I would propose this board:

1-Nothing

*other values snipped*
[/quote]

Man, I really like that idea.

"You could leave with $X amount, or with NOTHING..."
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: TLEberle on June 21, 2006, 12:38:22 PM
I'm not so sold on "nothing." I like the idea of multiple cases having less than a dollar, and a few more less than $10, but you should always be able to win *something*. And then there's the possibility of having a Penny Club. Winning "nothing" isn't as funny to me as winning one cent.

I'll have a go:
BLUE
$0.01
$0.10
$0.25
$0.50
$1
$2
$5
$10
$25
$50
$100
$200
$500

RED
$1,000
$2,000
$3,000
$4,000
$5,000
$10,000
$15,000
$25,000
$50,000

GREEN
$75,000
$100,000
$250,000
$1 million
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: TLEberle on June 21, 2006, 12:52:18 PM
[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'122000\' date=\'Jun 21 2006, 08:26 AM\']
Something in which the house advantage is always above the player's.  [/quote] How is there a 'house' advantage? "Deal" isn't a banking game. They're giving money away.

Quote
However, I don't have a strong mathematical aptitude.  That said, I guess I would propose this board:
I'm not sure how that would apply. It's clear the mathematics of the game was the furthest thing from the minds of the suits at NBC when they crafted the board.
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: clemon79 on June 21, 2006, 02:27:35 PM
Travis and RC87 both Get It.
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: TLEberle on June 21, 2006, 02:44:50 PM
The producers of the US game clearly have one thing in mind: making the show a three-ring circus. The game is almost secondary to the other goings-on. It is hard to be interested at all in the first three rounds because the offers are artificially low. No one is going to take $15,000 when there's $30,000 or $75,000 just down the pike.

The board, as Chris says, is insanely top heavy. All but four games ended in wins of $1,000 or more. Those four games were very out-of-the-ordinary, but there's no reason for me to invest myself emotionally when the player is almost 100% guaranteed to win $10,000, and stands a better-than-mediocre chance at $100,000.

The UK and Australian shows do it right. The board is setup so that big payoffs are there, but it takes an extraordinary game to get there. Most wins are in the $5,000-$20,000 range, with precious few going into the stratosphere. There are ALSo games where everything blows apart and the box opens to reveal pennies. The game needs for that tightrope situation to be there, where you get down to 10 cents, $5,000 and $75,000. That's where the real tension lies; not in having six other big prizes getting whittled away.
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: Brig Bother on June 21, 2006, 03:18:45 PM
But it's not just the board, you also need to consider the banker's attitude. The US banker is rather boringly staid in this regard. when the watching the US show, after about round four it always seems to be top prize/divided by the amount of boxes left as a rough estimate in my experience. The Brit Banker is much more aggressive in terms of playing on contestant's fears, especially as they've been there filming for a few weeks, and whilst they cover hotel and travel, they don't cover loss of earnings. "I came with nothing..." isn't really the correct attitude to take.
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: uncamark on June 21, 2006, 03:31:19 PM
[quote name=\'Brig Bother\' post=\'122013\' date=\'Jun 21 2006, 02:18 PM\']
But it's not just the board, you also need to consider the banker's attitude. The US banker is rather boringly staid in this regard. when the watching the US show, after about round four it always seems to be top prize/divided by the amount of boxes left as a rough estimate in my experience. The Brit Banker is much more aggressive in terms of playing on contestant's fears, especially as they've been there filming for a few weeks, and whilst they cover hotel and travel, they don't cover loss of earnings. "I came with nothing..." isn't really the correct attitude to take.
[/quote]

How many shows do they usually tape in a day?  Is it the usual for the U.S. five-a-day (or six-a-day, if that's how many days a week they're on) or is it less than that?
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: J.R. on June 21, 2006, 04:11:19 PM
Thanks for all your comments regarding my proposal boards everyone!

(See kids, when people say non-agreeing stuff about your idea: Don't whine and moan, just accept it!)

-Joe R.
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: jalman on June 21, 2006, 04:44:16 PM
I also have the notion that it isn't so much the board, but the how mean the banker gets.  Since watching the UK version for a few weeks I'm impressed at his scaring contestants into a deal by lowballing offers.

Now, Brig or someone from the UK please explain to me what is up with those little tattoos(?) on Noel's right hand every day.
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: Brig Bother on June 21, 2006, 06:30:39 PM
[quote name=\'uncamark\' post=\'122015\' date=\'Jun 21 2006, 08:31 PM\']
How many shows do they usually tape in a day?  Is it the usual for the U.S. five-a-day (or six-a-day, if that's how many days a week they're on) or is it less than that?
[/quote]

Three a day, five days a week, two weeks on one week off. In theory, you're there for a fortnight's worth of filming, but some contestants are lucky and producers pick them to play early (the players for the week are chosen in advance on the Monday morning), other contestants are left for a while. You're asked to get two-three weeks off work for it minimum. One contestant was made to wait 50 shows. You're encouraged to bring a friend to share the hotel room with you, and they try to swing it so you get your go whilst your friend is avaliable and sitting in the audience (one section of the audience is specially for friends and family of people on on the benches, and two recording day's worth of future contestants awaiting to join the game) although there are no guarantees. Players don't know they're playing until their name flashes up on the big screen at the top of the show. A show takes about 90-120 minutes to tape, edited down to 45 for telly.

Regarding Noel's hand drawings, try typing in "Noel Edmonds Cosmic Ordering" into Google and see if you find the results illuminating.
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: jalman on June 21, 2006, 06:52:52 PM
[quote name=\'Brig Bother\' post=\'122036\' date=\'Jun 21 2006, 06:30 PM\']
Regarding Noel's hand drawings, try typing in "Noel Edmonds Cosmic Ordering" into Google and see if you find the results illuminating.
[/quote]
Typing hurts my fingers something fierce.  I do what the kids do nowadays: highlight and right-click for Google, and the results are interesting.  Maybe Edmonds should swap notes with Jim Perry.

/or maybe not
//and sometime tell Edmonds the 70s ended some time ago ;-)
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: clemon79 on June 21, 2006, 07:46:35 PM
[quote name=\'jalman\' post=\'122039\' date=\'Jun 21 2006, 03:52 PM\']
I do what the kids do nowadays: highlight and right-click for Google, and the results are interesting.
[/quote]
Okay. I had no idea that you could highlight-right-click like that. I don't know WHY I didn't know that, but I didn't. That's damned slick.

(What I REALLY want is a highlight-right-click-go-to-this-URL function, for those times when you come across one that for whatever reason isn't hyperlinked directly.)
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: Speedy G on June 21, 2006, 08:33:56 PM
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'122049\' date=\'Jun 21 2006, 07:46 PM\']
(What I REALLY want is a highlight-right-click-go-to-this-URL function, for those times when you come across one that for whatever reason isn't hyperlinked directly.)
[/quote]
In Firefox, the Linkification extension is your friend.  Takes those plain-text URLs and makes a nice link out of them.

ObDoND: The best right hand side I can come up with is this:

 $1,000
 $5,000
 $10,000
 $15,000
 $20,000
 $25,000
 $50,000
 $75,000
 $100,000
 $200,000
 $300,000
 $600,000
 $1,000,000

1) 600K divided by six...  Can't get six fig offers earlier than one-case-at-a-time without the million or serious backup.
2) 300K divided by three...  Can't get six fig offers late without one of the big three or serious backup.
3) about 40% of the board is the TDV (like UK and AUS); instead of currently somewhere around 30%.
4) Still enough decent money on the board so every other show doesn't feel like a total train wreck.
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: clemon79 on June 21, 2006, 08:52:24 PM
[quote name=\'Speedy G\' post=\'122053\' date=\'Jun 21 2006, 05:33 PM\']
In Firefox, the Linkification extension is your friend.  Takes those plain-text URLs and makes a nice link out of them.
[/quote]
You, sir, are teh winnar. I knew something existed and just couldn't find it. Thanks!
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: TonicBH on June 21, 2006, 09:15:12 PM
Mine's probably gonna be derailed for being a little too topheavy, but here goes:

Left half: penny, nickel, quarter, half-dollar, $1, $2, $5, $10, $20, $50, $100, $250, $500
Right half: $1,000, $2,000, $3,000, $4,000, $5,000, $10,000, $25,000, $50,000, $75,000, $100,000, $250,000, $500,000, $1,000,000

I was thinking the right half should at least have values that would be somewhat favorable. I mean, you wouldn't want $5, but you wouldn't mind having at least $1,000, wouldn't you?
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: TLEberle on June 21, 2006, 09:21:02 PM
[quote name=\'TonicBH\' post=\'122056\' date=\'Jun 21 2006, 06:15 PM\']I was thinking the right half should at least have values that would be somewhat favorable. I mean, you wouldn't want $5, but you wouldn't mind having at least $1,000, wouldn't you?[/quote]"Somewhat favorable"? What does that mean? The point I made not a dozen posts before was that the game is uninteresting if everyone carts away a bundle o' cash. A game must have winners and losers to be compelling. The game as it stands can only have $5 winners if they do something really really silly. Though yours is a mild improvement over what we have now.
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: Gus on June 22, 2006, 12:33:02 AM
I once tried to make a board that was as even as possible; that is, a purely a logarithmic board where each value is multiplied by the one before it by as close to the same number as possible, or, alternately described, that when each value is plotted on a logarithmic scale, the curve is as close to a straight line as possible. My intent was to have a super-hyper-mega-ultra, never gonnna be done, way too many cases to be considered fathomable board going from $1 to $10,000,000. I came up with a short, neat pattern that iterated perfectly to give exactly fifty amounts:

1.00 1.50 2.00 2.50 3.50 5.00 7.50
10   15   20   25   35   50   75
100  150  200  250  350  500  750
1k   1½k  2k   2½k  3½k  5k   7½k
10k  15k  20k  25k  35k  50k  75k
100k 150k 200k 250k 350k 500k 750k
1m   1½m  2m   2½m  3½m  5m   7½m
10m

Reading this thread, I had been thinking that any logarithmic board such as this with no sudden jumps anywhere would be considered top-heavy relative to its top value, regardless of whether it's 26, 50, 10, or 1000 cases. Would my assumption be right?

(For the record, on a purely logarithmic board, the factor that each value is increased from the one before it would be the ((number of cases)-1)th root of (highest prize)/(lowest prize).)
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: Steve McClellan on June 22, 2006, 02:18:11 AM
[quote name=\'Gus\' date=\'Jun 21 2006, 09:33 PM\'](For the record, on a purely logarithmic board, the factor that each value is increased from the one before it would be the ((number of cases)-1)th root of (highest prize)/(lowest prize).)[/quote]
Interesting. That would put the DoND board somewhere around:

.01
.02
.05
.10
.25
.50
1
2
5
10
20
40
75
---
150
300
600
1,250
3,000
6,000
12,500
25,000
50,000
100,000
250,000
500,000
1,000,000

So what do the critics think of this one?
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: J.R. on June 22, 2006, 04:36:37 AM
Very clever board. Just one minor nitpick. If someone were to get unlucky greedy and end up with a $0.01 or $0.02 final: What would the bank offer be? :-)

-Joe R.
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: Steve McClellan on June 22, 2006, 04:56:42 AM
[quote name=\'JRaygor\' date=\'Jun 22 2006, 01:36 AM\']If someone were to get unlucky greedy and end up with a $0.01 or $0.02 final: What would the bank offer be? :-)[/quote]
A one-way ticket to Bakersfield.
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: uncamark on June 22, 2006, 11:41:20 AM
[quote name=\'Steve McClellan\' post=\'122096\' date=\'Jun 22 2006, 03:56 AM\']
[quote name=\'JRaygor\' date=\'Jun 22 2006, 01:36 AM\']If someone were to get unlucky greedy and end up with a $0.01 or $0.02 final: What would the bank offer be? :-)[/quote]
A one-way ticket to Bakersfield.
[/quote]

A date with Kathy Griffin.  :)
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: aaron sica on June 22, 2006, 11:57:25 AM
[quote name=\'JRaygor\' post=\'122095\' date=\'Jun 22 2006, 04:36 AM\']
Very clever board. Just one minor nitpick. If someone were to get unlucky greedy and end up with a $0.01 or $0.02 final: What would the bank offer be? :-)

-Joe R.
[/quote]

A genuine Mexican peso. :)
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: trainman on June 23, 2006, 01:43:18 AM
[quote name=\'JRaygor\' post=\'122095\' date=\'Jun 22 2006, 01:36 AM\']If someone were to get unlucky greedy and end up with a $0.01 or $0.02 final: What would the bank offer be? :-)
[/quote]

One cent plus 10 coupons for Tostitos (cash value 1/20th of a cent each).
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: Gus on June 23, 2006, 09:58:45 PM
[quote name=\'Steve McClellan\' post=\'122094\' date=\'Jun 22 2006, 02:18 AM\']
Interesting. That would put the DoND board somewhere around:

<scroll up for board>

So what do the critics think of this one?
[/quote]

Actually, now that you bring it up, I had been thinking that a board that's logarithmically-based, but only beyond its gag prize(s), wouldn't be too bad. Observe such a 26-case board, which I based off a logarithmic progression starting with $1:

  1¢  $ 1,000
$  1   $ 2,000
$  2   $ 3,000
$  3   $ 5,000
$  5   $   10,000
$ 10   $   20,000
$ 20   $   30,000
$ 30   $   50,000
$ 50   $  100,000
$100   $  200,000
$200   $  300,000
$300   $  500,000
$500   $1,000,000

Which, actually, is very similar to Joe's original board that kicked this thread off. I happen to like this one; It's less topheavy than the US board; the values between $1 and $10,000 are spread out more and the values from $100k to $1 million are spread out less. A few interesting statistics: The top prize is 29% of the sum of all the values on the US board, but the same figure for this board is 45% The sums, BTW, are $3,418,416.01 and $2,222,221.01 respectively.

That said, I think that the word "topheavy" is always relative to the top value. If your top prize is $1,000,000, then you're gonna have a few six-figure sums up there. But a $100,000 loss on this board wouldn't be "okay". If you're gonna shrink the other sums, like on Travis's board, then having that gigantic top prize makes it a one-case game from the get-go. which I think doesn't make for a good game and doesn't make for good TV either. I think this is a good compromise.

I'm not sure how the Australian board goes exactly, but I know it goes from 50 cents to 200k, and a logarithmically-based board for those values might go somethign like this:

$   .50  $ 500
$  1.00  $ 750
$  1.50  $  1,000
$  2.50  $  2,000
$  5.00  $  3,500
$  7.50  $  5,000
$ 10 $ 10,000
$ 20 $ 15,000
$ 35 $ 25,000
$ 50 $ 50,000
$100 $ 75,000
$150 $100,000
$250 $200,000
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: TLEberle on June 25, 2006, 04:34:25 PM
[quote name=\'Gus\' post=\'122334\' date=\'Jun 23 2006, 06:58 PM\']That said, I think that the word "topheavy" is always relative to the top value. If your top prize is $1,000,000, then you're gonna have a few six-figure sums up there. [/quote] I disagree. Howie says the top prize is "one million dollars." But if that money goes away, no worries, because there are still six huge amounts left. You are guaranteed to have a prize of at least $100,000 at the end of round one. The UK version leaves the possibility that all five of the big moneys could be knocked out in one round. In Australia, you could be playing for a whopping $15,000 if things don't go your way. When someone opens the $300,000 case, the proper reaction is one of devastation, except that it isn't, because there are so many other crutches to fall back on. Having that many big prizes dilutes the game, makes the big wins less exciting, and provides for nothing in between.

Quote
But a $100,000 loss on this board wouldn't be "okay". If you're gonna shrink the other sums, like on Travis's board, then having that gigantic top prize makes it a one-case game from the get-go. which I think doesn't make for a good game and doesn't make for good TV either.
I think you're wrong in that regard. There MUST be some danger in going on. The Deal cheerleaders would have you think otherwise, but the show isn't about the money, it's about the reunions, and the prizes behind the vault and all the other stuff that's in the wings. The money is secondary. If the producers want to have this as a 30-minutes, five-days-a-week show, there is no way that they will be able to sustain a prize budget that is dependent on the insane board that they have now.
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: PalCatIN on June 28, 2006, 08:12:06 PM
Here's my thought:

Left Side
$0.05
$0.10
$0.25
$0.50
$1.00
$2.00
$4.00
$6.00
$8.00
$10
$25
$50
$75

Right Side
$100
$250
$500
$1,000
$2,500
$5,000
$10,000
$25,000
CAR (Value between $25,000 and $50,000)
$50,000
$75,000
$100,000
$1,000,000
Title: DoND Ideal board?
Post by: beatlefreak84 on June 29, 2006, 01:56:14 AM
The only problem I have with this board is that it has the opposite problem of being top-heavy; I think it's now too bottom-heavy.  Yes, the top prize of a million still exists, but it's quite possible that, after the first round, you're playing for $10,000 or less.  That possibility jumps up round-to-round.

While this would certainly make big wins very exciting, they'd be happening too rarely for primetime, IMO.  I think that a good six-figure win should occur at least once every four shows...otherwise, I think it gets boring.  This could make a decent board for syndication, though...perhaps making the top value $250,000?

Just my opinions, though...take them for what they're worth (not a whole lot...:) ).

Anthony