The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: TimK2003 on August 29, 2008, 09:18:06 PM
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I was listening to one of my many Game Show CDs in the car today and was thinking how most themes fit the shows they musically represented.
On the flip side, there had to have been some shows in which the theme and/or music packages were a distraction from the shows themselves -- In other words, "Why the hell did they use that music for the show???"
Any memorable shows that, IYHO, had themes which "clashed"?
For starters, I would have to say the theme for "Scattergories", because it was a simply a watered-down remix of the Scrabble '93 theme -- and the Scrabble theme "mix" was a better rocking tune.
Others?
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The 1990 "Tic Tac Dough"? The theme seemed to be more fitting for a kids' show.
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I can think of "Gambit"----great music [Mort was a genius!], but it didn't seem to fit for a card game.
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[quote name=\'Chief-O\' post=\'195499\' date=\'Aug 29 2008, 10:06 PM\']
I can think of "Gambit"----great music [Mort was a genius!], but it didn't seem to fit for a card game.
[/quote]
Thank you for jogging my (short-term) memory! That was the specific theme I was listening to today which prompted me to start this thread! The closing theme to "Gambit" sounded like a better fit for "Magnificent Marble Machine" than the "circus carnival" theme they used (although the "pinball-in-play" music cue was a good fit on MMM).
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As much as I liked it, I thought the original Feud theme on Karn's Feud went together like oil and water. Agreed on TTD '90, that was a terrible theme and didn't fit in at all.
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My vote would go to "Merv Griffin's Crosswords". A light and bouncy theme mixed in with a "Millionaire"esque set (with some art deco thrown in)? Ummmm, IDK.
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The same theme was used for the Trebek Double Dare and the Perry Card Sharks, two rather different games. Which show does the theme fit?
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[quote name=\'gamed121683\' post=\'195511\' date=\'Aug 29 2008, 10:24 PM\']
My vote would go to "Merv Griffin's Crosswords". A light and bouncy theme mixed in with a "Millionaire"esque set (with some art deco thrown in)? Ummmm, IDK.
[/quote]
Hear hear. It's way too mellow and slow of a theme for a fast-paced show.
[quote name=\'Fedya\' post=\'195514\' date=\'Aug 29 2008, 10:36 PM\']
The same theme was used for the Trebek Double Dare and the Perry Card Sharks, two rather different games. Which show does the theme fit?
[/quote]
CS more than DD, IIRC.
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How about "Every Second Counts"?
Great theme, but it sounded more like a show from the early 70s than the mid- to late-80s.
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[quote name=\'Fedya\' post=\'195514\' date=\'Aug 29 2008, 11:36 PM\']
The same theme was used for the Trebek Double Dare and the Perry Card Sharks, two rather different games. Which show does the theme fit?
[/quote]
It fits both well, IMO - though Card Sharks is the better fit of the two, IMO
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I've mentioned before the Say When!! theme from the episode on the trading circuit sounded like something out of a "Pixie & Dixie" cartoon. I kept expecting Art James to say, "I HATE MEECES TO PIECES!"
Another I'd like to add is the theme to What's This Song. To me, it was a 1940s radio theme on a 1960s game show. They could have "TWISTED" it up! And Wink was a "Top 40" deejay at the time, too!
Cordially,
Tammy
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[quote name=\'Chief-O\' post=\'195499\' date=\'Aug 29 2008, 10:06 PM\']
I can think of "Gambit"----great music [Mort was a genius!], but it didn't seem to fit for a card game.
[/quote]
At least when the show came back as LVG, they gave it a more fitting theme.
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[quote name=\'DoorNumberFour\' post=\'195520\' date=\'Aug 30 2008, 01:21 AM\']
How about "Every Second Counts"?
Great theme, but it sounded more like a show from the early 70s than the mid- to late-80s.
[/quote]
It's interesting to note, that some of the music used on "Every Second Counts" was also used in the first couple of seasons (say, 1980-84) of "Fight Back! With David Horowitz". Fitting, since they were both "Group W" productions.
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[quote name=\'rugrats1\' post=\'195497\' date=\'Aug 29 2008, 09:50 PM\']
The 1990 "Tic Tac Dough"? The theme seemed to be more fitting for a kids' show.
[/quote]
What a comedown for the man who wrote "Moon River".
/Johnny Mercer wrote the lyrics
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I've mentioned before the Say When!! theme from the episode on the trading circuit sounded like something out of a "Pixie & Dixie" cartoon. I kept expecting Art James to say, "I HATE MEECES TO PIECES!"
Do you or does anyone remember the music they used when they went on the air?
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[quote name=\'davemackey\' post=\'195531\' date=\'Aug 30 2008, 07:22 AM\']
[quote name=\'rugrats1\' post=\'195497\' date=\'Aug 29 2008, 09:50 PM\']
The 1990 "Tic Tac Dough"? The theme seemed to be more fitting for a kids' show.
[/quote]
What a comedown for the man who wrote "Moon River".
/Johnny Mercer wrote the lyrics
[/quote]
"Hey, work is work." - Jon Lovitz, Waiter, 5-timers Club, SNL.
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I think that the Blockbusters '87 theme fit the game a lot better than the 1980 theme, even though I like the latter piece of music a lot more.
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I'm a-gonna catch heat for this one:
$20,000 Pyramid (ABC) - The PERFECT matched theme for the PERFECT show.
$25,000 Pyramid (CBS) - The worst theme for the PERFECT show. I think it's too sappy and slow for such a dramatic show. I'm just not a fan of this theme at all.
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[quote name=\'tvwxman\' post=\'195545\' date=\'Aug 30 2008, 12:37 PM\']
I'm a-gonna catch heat for this one:
$20,000 Pyramid (ABC) - The PERFECT matched theme for the PERFECT show.
$25,000 Pyramid (CBS) - The worst theme for the PERFECT show. I think it's too sappy and slow for such a dramatic show. I'm just not a fan of this theme at all.
[/quote]
100% agreement here. The 80's version is Muzak, zaps all of the energy away.
--Mike
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[quote name=\'tvwxman\' post=\'195545\' date=\'Aug 30 2008, 12:37 PM\']
I'm a-gonna catch heat for this one:
$20,000 Pyramid (ABC) - The PERFECT matched theme for the PERFECT show.
$25,000 Pyramid (CBS) - The worst theme for the PERFECT show. I think it's too sappy and slow for such a dramatic show. I'm just not a fan of this theme at all.
[/quote]Eh. I just heard both on TVPMM. They both sound fine. Several times, the $20K theme goes on an acid trip for some unknown reason. Prominent Hammond organ. Acoustic guitar. Bass guitar. Synth. Brass. I think a trombone's farting in there somewhere near the end. Far too much going on. The last forty seconds are just a mish-mash. Typical 70s fare, really. The 80s theme is a lot cleaner and simpler. More mature. They dropped the low-energy drawn-out dips and half of the instruments and left the really good parts. I prefer it.
The most mis-matched theme I can think of is 70s Split Second. The car intro part with the bongos is fine, but after that the tempo slows way down.
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[quote name=\'CarShark\' post=\'195552\' date=\'Aug 30 2008, 02:00 PM\']
I think a trombone's farting in there somewhere near the end.
[/quote]
Women don't sweat, either.
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[quote name=\'tvwxman\' post=\'195545\' date=\'Aug 30 2008, 09:37 AM\']
$25,000 Pyramid (CBS) - The worst theme for the PERFECT show. I think it's too sappy and slow for such a dramatic show. I'm just not a fan of this theme at all.[/quote]
[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'195546\' date=\'Aug 30 2008, 09:49 AM\']
100% agreement here. The 80's version is Muzak, zaps all of the energy away.[/quote]
I think I might cry. I am appalled. :)
[quote name=\'davemackey\' post=\'195553\' date=\'Aug 30 2008, 11:33 AM\']
Women don't sweat, either.[/quote]
Enjoy your brand new Intarnets, sir. :)
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[quote name=\'CarShark\' post=\'195552\' date=\'Aug 30 2008, 02:00 PM\']
I just heard both on TVPMM. They both sound fine. Several times, the $20K theme goes on an acid trip for some unknown reason. Prominent Hammond organ. Acoustic guitar. Bass guitar. Synth. Brass. I think a trombone's farting in there somewhere near the end. Far too much going on.
[/quote]
Oh, absolutely agreed there. But the brilliance of it comes from the parts that were actually used on the show. And most of that acid trip in there, was not.
The opening montage, credits, and winning fanfare 'make' Tuning Up absolutely fantastic.
But, YMMV.
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[quote name=\'tvwxman\' post=\'195545\' date=\'Aug 30 2008, 12:37 PM\']I'm a-gonna catch heat for this one:
$20,000 Pyramid (ABC) - The PERFECT matched theme for the PERFECT show.
$25,000 Pyramid (CBS) - The worst theme for the PERFECT show. I think it's too sappy and slow for such a dramatic show. I'm just not a fan of this theme at all.[/quote]
Going beyond my initial reaction of "sappy and not dramatic? what the hell?", the thing that seems curious to me is that, um, they're played at the same tempo. Actually, I think the latter is a tiny smidgen faster.
(Also, I love the "acid trip" parts of the original theme. That bass intro! That bombastic part about 1:40 in! Glorious.)
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[quote name=\'tvwxman\' post=\'195564\' date=\'Aug 30 2008, 01:28 PM\']
[quote name=\'CarShark\' post=\'195552\' date=\'Aug 30 2008, 02:00 PM\']
I just heard both on TVPMM. They both sound fine. Several times, the $20K theme goes on an acid trip for some unknown reason. Prominent Hammond organ. Acoustic guitar. Bass guitar. Synth. Brass. I think a trombone's farting in there somewhere near the end. Far too much going on.
[/quote]
Oh, absolutely agreed there. But the brilliance of it comes from the parts that were actually used on the show. And most of that acid trip in there, was not.
The opening montage, credits, and winning fanfare 'make' Tuning Up absolutely fantastic.
But, YMMV.
[/quote]
I agree that the ABC theme was better. My first reaction, on seeing the CBS version, was "What the heck did they do to the theme?!!" Tuning Up fit the show perfectly. The 25K theme always sounded insubstantial and sing-songy to me.
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[quote name=\'tvwxman\' post=\'195545\' date=\'Aug 30 2008, 11:37 AM\']
I'm a-gonna catch heat for this one:
$20,000 Pyramid (ABC) - The PERFECT matched theme for the PERFECT show.
$25,000 Pyramid (CBS) - The worst theme for the PERFECT show. I think it's too sappy and slow for such a dramatic show. I'm just not a fan of this theme at all.
[/quote]
Agreed as well. The original Tuning Up sounded more exciting and forceful. The remake just sounded too stereotypical game show music used for spoofs and the like.
Also, the copy used on the air for early CBS/ABC sounded like crap, they could have used just a better copy. Until I heard the original Tuning Up on the GSN CD, i always thought it was the actual recording that sounded bad, but turns out it was just the audio on the show. If they used a cleaner version, even edited better, it would have brought more life to the show i think. Almost like the "Big Wheel's" - "Changing Keys" theme change did to WOF. Yeah the show was the same, but the excitement wasn't there during the opening. ;(
Also, to me the show seemed almost too polished when it returned to CBS. There was a different atmosphere from the Ed Sullivan Theatre than from Studio 33 i guess.
Another thing.. How did Cobert get the rights to remake the theme? It was almost a complete copy.
Mark
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[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' post=\'195574\' date=\'Aug 30 2008, 09:42 PM\']
Going beyond my initial reaction of "sappy and not dramatic? what the hell?", the thing that seems curious to me is that, um, they're played at the same tempo. Actually, I think the latter is a tiny smidgen faster.
[/quote]
Polkas are fast. That doesn't make it good music.
Tuning Up has me thinking something exciting is going to happen. Cobert has me wondering how much longer I'm going to be on hold.
--Mike
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[quote name=\'CarShark\' post=\'195552\' date=\'Aug 30 2008, 11:00 AM\']
I think a trombone's farting in there somewhere near the end.[/quote]
I can't believe I skipped over this the first time without whipping out the gazpacho line. :)
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[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'195580\' date=\'Aug 30 2008, 10:32 PM\'][quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' post=\'195574\' date=\'Aug 30 2008, 09:42 PM\']Going beyond my initial reaction of "sappy and not dramatic? what the hell?", the thing that seems curious to me is that, um, they're played at the same tempo. Actually, I think the latter is a tiny smidgen faster.[/quote]
Polkas are fast. That doesn't make it good music.[/quote]
Well, okay, but that's not what I said. I was merely responding to the oddness of criticizing one piece of music for being too slow and not another, when one is not actually slower than the other.
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[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' post=\'195595\' date=\'Aug 31 2008, 05:52 AM\']
Well, okay, but that's not what I said. I was merely responding to the oddness of criticizing one piece of music for being too slow and not another, when one is not actually slower than the other.
[/quote]
Just to make this clear, without editing the original statement above,
I hereby withdraw the word 'slower'. Rob is correct that it isn't really a slower song than "Tuning Up", and it was a poor choice of words.
That said, it still sucks. To Me.
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[quote name=\'davemackey\' post=\'195553\' date=\'Aug 30 2008, 02:33 PM\']
Women don't sweat, either.
[/quote]
Pat O'Brien does. Yet he glistens at the same time.
From 1983-89, I found the Wheel Of Fortune theme out of place. To me, the Alan Thicke music was perfect for that show. Some of those Griffin prize description cues (Frisco Disco and a couple of others being exceptions) created a mental mismatch for me also.
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[quote name=\'fishbulb\' post=\'195575\' date=\'Aug 30 2008, 09:43 PM\']
I agree that the ABC theme was better. My first reaction, on seeing the CBS version, was "What the heck did they do to the theme?!!" Tuning Up fit the show perfectly. The 25K theme always sounded insubstantial and sing-songy to me.
[/quote]
Simple:
The 70's Pyramid sounded better because it sounded like a real group of serious studio musicians, while the 80s version sounded like a high school marching band playing impromptu, (http://\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QxxcH9PSS8\").
Count me in as one who thinks Pyramid is the the least favorite of the Cobert compositions.
EDIT: I see that said band has taken this tune on tour:
Version 2 (http://\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QxxcH9PSS8\")
Version 3 (http://\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC7pPnoshqU\")
Version 4 (http://\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYHuCz-lQt0\")
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Although I liked the theme to the short-lived show Time Machine, to me it didn't sound like it should be a game-show theme. It sounded more like prime-time awards special music than daytime game show music.
Also, I really didn't think the Go theme fit at all. Firstly, I don't really like the theme as it's 3 minutes of an intro in search of a melody, but as other people here have said in the past, it would probably be more fitting for a newscast.
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While we're talking about bad remakes of themes (although I completely disagree about 20K vs. 25K), how 'bout the remake of the Family Feud theme in 1988? Score took a theme that was high energy and fit the show perfectly and sucked the soul out of it, making it mechanical and cold...... also didn't help that Ray Combs was pretty similar.
Tyshaun
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I'm kinda indifferent on the Pyramids themes; liked both but wished the Cobert version was much longer (loved the rarely-heard bass at the end). Someone mentioned a different atmosphere in the 80s version, and that might be the one thing I liked so much more about the NYC version. When someone won the big money, the NY crowd went bats**t insane, and I loved it.
Back to Pyramid themes, both were better than Donnymid's (retch).
And I also agree on the 1988 Feud remix...the live instruments of Dawson's version gave it a better groove. The synthesized drums and splash cymbals just had no feel to it.
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Lemme think:
TTD '90: Definately sounds like something for a kiddy show.
Joker's Wild '90: While it doesn't fit the caliber of The Jokers Wild in way of the nature of the show, it did fit the "watered down" presentation of the show compared to the 70s/80s format.
Trump Card: That theme sounds like something that belongs in a multi-level marketing video presentation (or any other similar charletan type video), especially that opening fanfare.
Regarding the Pyramid theme music debate, I don't care what anybody says, "Tuning Up" was the shnit! It's in my top 3 favorite game show themes, yeah the bridge portion of the song does get a little psychedelic, but that's part of the charm. It's high energy and extremely krunk, just like the excitement when someone won the winner's circle on the show during that period.
The CBS $25K theme, while it wasn't quite as exciting, I respected it for what it was and the time period it was presented (a little more "sanitized" version of the original, but still exciting in its own right. Then again, the music fit the 1980s overall "theme" as a whole).
Jeopardy and WOF (both 80s versions) I respected their original theme songs, but when they started getting jazzed up and "fancified", I began to lose respect for the theme music, because consistent with the rest of the show, the modified music only helped reduce J! and WOF to looking like pop culture gimmicks instead of respectable game shows.
Winning Streak, Jackpot, and unsold pilot Get Rich Quick: They all sounded terribly stereotypical game show music. In other words, when I heard the theme music, I thought I was watching an SNL/Mad TV skit.
I'll have more later.
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There are a number exceptions to this, but I think that the reason some themes work where others don't is because you can sing the title at a certain point of the melody. A good case in point is the Wheel of Fortune theme from 1975 vs. the one from 1983. Comparing the two, I think the 1983 version of the theme were better than the 1975 theme because it has a theme that works with the title of the show.
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[quote name=\'JackSpader\' post=\'195642\' date=\'Aug 31 2008, 03:57 PM\']
Comparing the two, I think the 1983 version of the theme were better than the 1975 theme because it has a theme that works with the title of the show.
[/quote]
By that argument, the theme from Go is brilliant.
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I hated the theme change on WOF in 83. The opening of it was so slow compared to the fast-paced beginning of "Big Wheels" that it just seemed very out of place.
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I always thought Big Wheels was a good fit for WoF back in the 70's. When Changing Keys was used as the 80's theme, it was decent enough as it was. The jazzier version was OK. The big band version in the mid 90's didn't seem to click with me. When they completely changed it up around 2001, I lost all respect for that theme. I'm beginning to dred what the Million Dollar WoF music will be like this comming season.
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[quote name=\'Eric Paddon\' post=\'195681\' date=\'Aug 31 2008, 11:24 PM\']
I hated the theme change on WOF in 83. The opening of it was so slow compared to the fast-paced beginning of "Big Wheels" that it just seemed very out of place.
[/quote]
But Merv loved the money it put in his pockets.
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The Closing theme of Treasure Hunt 1970s version, sedate compared to all the hecticness of the show.
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[quote name=\'Offshored2007\' post=\'195839\' date=\'Sep 2 2008, 12:59 PM\']
The Closing theme of Treasure Hunt 1970s version, sedate compared to all the hecticness of the show.
[/quote]
I thought that was brilliant, it gave us a chance to bask in the glow of what we have just seen and to gaze in the eyes of Nomi, Jane, etc. with the lights down low.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'195841\' date=\'Sep 2 2008, 01:13 PM\']
[quote name=\'Offshored2007\' post=\'195839\' date=\'Sep 2 2008, 12:59 PM\']
The Closing theme of Treasure Hunt 1970s version, sedate compared to all the hecticness of the show.
[/quote]
I thought that was brilliant, it gave us a chance to bask in the glow of what we have just seen and to gaze in the eyes of Nomi, Jane, etc. with the lights down low.
[/quote]
And a baggie in our hands.
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[quote name=\'Don Howard\' post=\'195865\' date=\'Sep 2 2008, 02:56 PM\']
[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'195841\' date=\'Sep 2 2008, 01:13 PM\']
[quote name=\'Offshored2007\' post=\'195839\' date=\'Sep 2 2008, 12:59 PM\']
The Closing theme of Treasure Hunt 1970s version, sedate compared to all the hecticness of the show.
[/quote]
I thought that was brilliant, it gave us a chance to bask in the glow of what we have just seen and to gaze in the eyes of Nomi, Jane, etc. with the lights down low.
[/quote]
And a baggie in our hands.
[/quote]
How many more days, Don, before your permanent retirement from the forum???
;)
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[quote name=\'TimK2003\' post=\'195917\' date=\'Sep 2 2008, 07:47 PM\']
How many more days, Don, before your permanent retirement from the forum???
;)
[/quote]
Matt and Chris may be discussing that subject at this very moment.
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My .02 on the Pyramid themes:
To start and end the show, I like "Tuning Up" better. (I also like it on its own as just a good piece of music.)
To celebrate a win in the Winner's Circle, I like the 80's version.
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IMHO, the $25K theme and Tuning Up both match their respective versions of Pyramid. Seeing how nearly every piece of music in the 80s included synthesizers and electric camel drums, the $25K theme was lucky to have been spared.
None of the Wheel of Fortune themes since 1995 have matched the show. None of them sound totally mismatched to the show, but they all sound a little off.
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I've always thought Gambit and CBS Joker's Wild should've swapped themes. The circusish music used on Gambit would've suited TJW just fine, I think.
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The Steve Kaplan remixes to the Jeopardy! theme from 1997 onwards. The 1992 bongo inlay over the original 1984 theme grew on me after a few years, but I've never, ever been able to like the Kaplan arrangement. They just suck, and suck lemons and sour grapes, they do.
IMHO, it sucked the heart and soul out of an otherwise perfectly fine piece of game show music.
I'm willing to bet that even now, the original, smooth, and highly refined electronic opening and main theme would fit the show in its current iteration (despite the fact that I also loathe with a passion its current set).
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My vote: the MG/HS Hour theme. I've always been fond of it (and I like it as a car cue on TPIR), but I've always thought it was one of the most inappropriate TV show themes I've ever heard.
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What about Million Dollar Password?
A little over-dramatic for Password.
I also thought the 82 Tattletales theme was redundant and not as good as the original.
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[quote name=\'Shell\' post=\'196143\' date=\'Sep 5 2008, 04:31 PM\']
I also thought the 82 Tattletales theme was redundant and not as good as the original.
[/quote]
Completely disagree...I always liked the 82 version much better than the 76...but that one grew on me over the years.
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I also thought the 82 Tattletales theme was redundant and not as good as the original.
I'll have to agree with you there. I didn't mind the '82 theme, but I liked the original from '74 much better. They ended up using several slight variations of that theme during the '70s. By '77, the "mix" wasn't quite as good as it was earlier.
I also didn't mind the '80s Pyramid theme - maybe it wasn't as good as the original, but it was a new version of the show and I think it needed a new version of the theme. I can't think of any show that had the exact same music package when a new version was launched - except maybe the '70s High Rollers (the '74 and '78 versions were basically the same music-wise). Even Feud's theme was "remixed", as several have pointed out.
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IIRC, "Battlestars" and "The New Battlestars" had the same music package.
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[quote name=\'Orion\' post=\'196087\' date=\'Sep 4 2008, 09:10 PM\']
My vote: the MG/HS Hour theme. I've always been fond of it (and I like it as a car cue on TPIR), but I've always thought it was one of the most inappropriate TV show themes I've ever heard.
[/quote]
This I'm curious about. Why is it inappropriate? Every time I hear it, it brings excitement, like something big will happen.
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[quote name=\'MikeK\' post=\'196170\' date=\'Sep 5 2008, 08:30 PM\']
This I'm curious about. Why is it inappropriate? Every time I hear it, it brings excitement, like something big will happen.
[/quote]
Funny how they never followed through with that promise, isn't it. :-p
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[quote name=\'CarbonCpy\' post=\'196172\' date=\'Sep 5 2008, 05:49 PM\']
Funny how they never followed through with that promise, isn't it. :-p[/quote]
I'm one of the few demented souls who actually *really liked* MGHSH, even after knowing how broken the HS part of the equation was.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'196174\' date=\'Sep 5 2008, 09:01 PM\']
[quote name=\'CarbonCpy\' post=\'196172\' date=\'Sep 5 2008, 05:49 PM\']
Funny how they never followed through with that promise, isn't it. :-p[/quote]
I'm one of the few demented souls who actually *really liked* MGHSH, even after knowing how broken the HS part of the equation was.
[/quote]
I liked it too, even though my 4th grade mind back in '83 didn't get most of the questions in either portion of the game. But damn, that music and the big illuminated wall caught the amazement and attention of at least one 8-year-old at the time...
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[quote name=\'StevenRosenow\' post=\'196026\' date=\'Sep 4 2008, 08:24 AM\']
The Steve Kaplan remixes to the Jeopardy! theme from 1997 onwards. The 1992 bongo inlay over the original 1984 theme grew on me after a few years, but I've never, ever been able to like the Kaplan arrangement. They just suck, and suck lemons and sour grapes, they do.
IMHO, it sucked the heart and soul out of an otherwise perfectly fine piece of game show music.[/quote]I actually like Kaplan's mix OK, maybe more than the pre-bongo theme.
I'm willing to bet that even now, the original, smooth, and highly refined electronic opening and main theme would fit the show in its current iteration (despite the fact that I also loathe with a passion its current set).
You're kidding, right? It would sound hugely dated, just like the Combs Feud theme did when Karn was hosting.
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[quote name=\'CarShark\' post=\'196177\' date=\'Sep 5 2008, 09:47 PM\']
[quote name=\'StevenRosenow\' post=\'196026\' date=\'Sep 4 2008, 08:24 AM\']
The Steve Kaplan remixes to the Jeopardy! theme from 1997 onwards. The 1992 bongo inlay over the original 1984 theme grew on me after a few years, but I've never, ever been able to like the Kaplan arrangement. They just suck, and suck lemons and sour grapes, they do.
IMHO, it sucked the heart and soul out of an otherwise perfectly fine piece of game show music.[/quote]
I actually like Kaplan's mix OK, maybe more than the pre-bongo theme.
[/quote]
I like the Kaplan 2001 mix as well. It's actually very classy IMO. The 1997 mix was pretty decent too, but thought it got a little too jazz heavy.
I'm willing to bet that even now, the original, smooth, and highly refined electronic opening and main theme would fit the show in its current iteration (despite the fact that I also loathe with a passion its current set).
You're kidding, right? It would sound hugely dated, just like the Combs Feud theme did when Karn was hosting.
And out of place for its current set. The electronica does not match the art deco or whatever you wanna call it.
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'196178\' date=\'Sep 5 2008, 09:11 PM\']
I like the Kaplan 2001 mix as well. It's actually very classy IMO. The 1997 mix was pretty decent too, but thought it got a little too jazz heavy.
[/quote]
I can't remember what the '01 version sounded like, but the '97 version wasn't bad. It's just that the signature---those famous notes we associate with J!---got buried into the arrangement. It was a good update to what was---yes---becoming a dated piece of music.
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[quote name=\'Chief-O\' post=\'196189\' date=\'Sep 5 2008, 08:49 PM\']
I can't remember what the '01 version sounded like, but the '97 version wasn't bad. It's just that the signature---those famous notes we associate with J!---got buried into the arrangement. It was a good update to what was---yes---becoming a dated piece of music.
[/quote]
The '01 theme is what we have now.
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The theme for Rodriguez's Newlywed Game.
Not knocking "The Book of Love"; it's a good song. It just didn't mix well with the then modern-looking set they used.
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[quote name=\'MikeK\' post=\'196170\' date=\'Sep 5 2008, 04:30 PM\']
[quote name=\'Orion\' post=\'196087\' date=\'Sep 4 2008, 09:10 PM\']
My vote: the MG/HS Hour theme. I've always been fond of it (and I like it as a car cue on TPIR), but I've always thought it was one of the most inappropriate TV show themes I've ever heard.
[/quote]
This I'm curious about. Why is it inappropriate? Every time I hear it, it brings excitement, like something big will happen.
[/quote]
Oh, I quite agree, and that's really my problem with it. It always struck me as very dramatic, but IMHO both MG and HS need something more lighthearted. Compare the 70s themes of both shows with the MGHSH theme -- the latter just feels totally out of place to me.
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Hmm...I'm gonna say I wasn't too thrilled with the theme for Pyramid when Osmond was hosting. Didn't help that there was no real melody in thing thing. Seemed like noise...just like that set, so I guess it fit after all.
I'm gonna agree on the crosswords bit though. It doesn't match that set at all.
Also, from what I'm hearing, this new Jeopardy theme is a bit too over the top. I hate to echo previous complaints, but it really does seem like early 20th Century Disney music.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'195593\' date=\'Aug 31 2008, 04:57 AM\']
[quote name=\'CarShark\' post=\'195552\' date=\'Aug 30 2008, 11:00 AM\']
I think a trombone's farting in there somewhere near the end.[/quote]
I can't believe I skipped over this the first time without whipping out the gazpacho line. :)
[/quote]
Don't you mean Kimchi? He's the brown fart cloud. Gazpacho is the big wooly mammoth thing. (What? Surely I'm not the only person here who watches Chowder.)
Seriously, though, I agree that all remixes of "Changing Keys" after 1992 did not fit the show. By stretching the notes out, warping the melody, and throwing in so much brass, it just clashed with what was still the "old school" Wheel. The 1998 mix was especially cold. Jeopardy!'s Kaplan mixes felt really cold too, especially in the sushi bar era. I honestly believe that Kaplan had very little idea as to what a melody is.
I also agree with the Combs remixes being used on Karn Feud. Totally out of place, and made even worse by throwing in a few orchestra hits on top of that. Actually, any Feud remix just didn't work for me. Dawson 2.0 slowed down the melody and took out the "family" feel by throwing in saxophones and synthesizers, and the Anderson/Karn/etc. THUMP! THUMP! THUMP! THUMP! crap just doesn't work either. Actually, nothing really worked on the Anderson or Karn eras, except maybe Karn's set.
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[quote name=\'TenPoundHammer\' post=\'197393\' date=\'Sep 16 2008, 11:02 PM\']
Seriously, though, I agree that all remixes of "Changing Keys" after 1992 did not fit the show. By stretching the notes out, warping the melody, and throwing in so much brass, it just clashed with what was still the "old school" Wheel. The 1998 mix was especially cold. Jeopardy!'s Kaplan mixes felt really cold too, especially in the sushi bar era. I honestly believe that Kaplan had very little idea as to what a melody is.
[/quote]
Agree with you on the "Wheel" themes, but I disagree on the post-1997 "J!" themes. Having listened to both in the clear recently, I must say they sounded very classy, and fit the knowledgeable feel of the show very well. The newest version is slowly growing on me, but it lacks the dynamics of the two prior versions.
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'197405\' date=\'Sep 17 2008, 12:32 AM\']
[quote name=\'TenPoundHammer\' post=\'197393\' date=\'Sep 16 2008, 11:02 PM\']
Seriously, though, I agree that all remixes of "Changing Keys" after 1992 did not fit the show. By stretching the notes out, warping the melody, and throwing in so much brass, it just clashed with what was still the "old school" Wheel. The 1998 mix was especially cold. Jeopardy!'s Kaplan mixes felt really cold too, especially in the sushi bar era. I honestly believe that Kaplan had very little idea as to what a melody is.
[/quote]
Agree with you on the "Wheel" themes, but I disagree on the post-1997 "J!" themes. Having listened to both in the clear recently, I must say they sounded very classy, and fit the knowledgeable feel of the show very well. The newest version is slowly growing on me, but it lacks the dynamics of the two prior versions.
[/quote]
And it was needed to be done--the first theme was becoming a relic of the 80s itself. I also just like a full orchestra more than synthesizers in many cases, personally.
(Now one can argue that the Korinna font is just as much a relic of the 80s, but to me it's like the font for the MTV vidclip lower thirds [when they do air them and on the digital channels]--it's a tradition now and doesn't need to be changed.)
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[quote name=\'uncamark\' post=\'197433\' date=\'Sep 17 2008, 11:37 AM\']And it was needed to be done--the first theme was becoming a relic of the 80s itself. I also just like a full orchestra more than synthesizers in many cases, personally.[/quote]
I can understand re-orchestrating the theme, but did they have to f*** with the melody? By stretching out every other note on the 1995 mix and all subsequent mixes, they really made a mess of it IMO. It wouldn't have been as bad if they had just had the brass play the original Changing Keys melody.
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[quote name=\'TenPoundHammer\' post=\'197435\' date=\'Sep 17 2008, 10:58 AM\']
[quote name=\'uncamark\' post=\'197433\' date=\'Sep 17 2008, 11:37 AM\']And it was needed to be done--the first theme was becoming a relic of the 80s itself. I also just like a full orchestra more than synthesizers in many cases, personally.[/quote]
I can understand re-orchestrating the theme, but did they have to f*** with the melody? By stretching out every other note on the 1995 mix and all subsequent mixes, they really made a mess of it IMO. It wouldn't have been as bad if they had just had the brass play the original Changing Keys melody.
[/quote]
I was referring to "J!" myself. I haven't been a fan of most "Wheel" themes since mid-90s.
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If we're gonna talk about lack of melody, then I'll definitely pitch a vote for toady's Wheel theme. I don't know why they decided to move away from Changing Keys, but I don't think it was a good decision.
Reminds me of Wheel 2000. I still don't know WHAT that theme was. :/
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[quote name=\'GrandMasterGalvatron\' post=\'197623\' date=\'Sep 18 2008, 01:07 PM\']
I don't know why they decided to move away from Changing Keys, but I don't think it was a good decision.
[/quote]
It wasn't a good decision to move to Changing Keys in the first place.
/Gimme Big Wheels any day.
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[quote name=\'GrandMasterGalvatron\' post=\'197623\' date=\'Sep 18 2008, 01:07 PM\']I don't know why they decided to move away from Changing Keys, but I don't think it was a good decision.[/quote]Was Merv Griffin Productions still the production company at the time of the switch? Maybe the accounting guys didn't feel like putting out the kind of money Merv was getting.
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'197647\' date=\'Sep 18 2008, 06:40 PM\']
[quote name=\'GrandMasterGalvatron\' post=\'197623\' date=\'Sep 18 2008, 01:07 PM\']I don't know why they decided to move away from Changing Keys, but I don't think it was a good decision.[/quote]Was Merv Griffin Productions still the production company at the time of the switch? Maybe the accounting guys didn't feel like putting out the kind of money Merv was getting.
[/quote]
The big band theme or the synth theme(s) afterward? The latter was (I believe) fall-1997, and by that point, Merv was only getting the "CREATED BY" byline at the end of the credits.
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[quote name=\'Orion\' post=\'196220\' date=\'Sep 6 2008, 08:09 AM\']Oh, I quite agree, and that's really my problem with it. It always struck me as very dramatic, but IMHO both MG and HS need something more lighthearted. Compare the 70s themes of both shows with the MGHSH theme -- the latter just feels totally out of place to me.[/quote]I must disagree with this assessment. I thought with the futuristic looking set, the dark opening with the large (video wall?) that it fit in very well.
As for themes that don't really fit the show...the '86 theme to Card Sharks is devoid of any excitement, IMO, whatsoever. OTOH, I think the Tic Tac Dough theme is too energized for what is a rather dry game.
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[quote name=\'uncamark\' post=\'197433\' date=\'Sep 17 2008, 10:37 AM\']
[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'197405\' date=\'Sep 17 2008, 12:32 AM\']
[quote name=\'TenPoundHammer\' post=\'197393\' date=\'Sep 16 2008, 11:02 PM\']
Seriously, though, I agree that all remixes of "Changing Keys" after 1992 did not fit the show. By stretching the notes out, warping the melody, and throwing in so much brass, it just clashed with what was still the "old school" Wheel. The 1998 mix was especially cold. Jeopardy!'s Kaplan mixes felt really cold too, especially in the sushi bar era. I honestly believe that Kaplan had very little idea as to what a melody is.
[/quote]
Agree with you on the "Wheel" themes, but I disagree on the post-1997 "J!" themes. Having listened to both in the clear recently, I must say they sounded very classy, and fit the knowledgeable feel of the show very well. The newest version is slowly growing on me, but it lacks the dynamics of the two prior versions.
[/quote]
And it was needed to be done--the first theme was becoming a relic of the 80s itself. I also just like a full orchestra more than synthesizers in many cases, personally.
(Now one can argue that the Korinna font is just as much a relic of the 80s, but to me it's like the font for the MTV vidclip lower thirds [when they do air them and on the digital channels]--it's a tradition now and doesn't need to be changed.)
[/quote]
I still disagree.
Look how long "Walking" was used as the "Come on Down" theme to The Price is Right. Or how long they used their main theme WITHOUT ANY remixes (until Carey took over).
You ask any longtime Trebek-era Jeopardy! fanatic (and taking a trip to the Jump the Shark website) and the general consensus is that the Steve Kaplan mixes to the Jeopardy! theme just simply did not fit the show (neither did Naomi Slodki's set designs) at all. Insomuch as I hate to say it, the remixes to the theme, the awful sets (and that Clue Crew) are the very reasons I RARELY watch Jeopardy! anymore. In fact, Jeopardy! lost its soul when they dropped the original electronic theme and ditched the electronic neon set in 1997.
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[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'197669\' date=\'Sep 19 2008, 12:04 AM\']
[quote name=\'Orion\' post=\'196220\' date=\'Sep 6 2008, 08:09 AM\']Oh, I quite agree, and that's really my problem with it. It always struck me as very dramatic, but IMHO both MG and HS need something more lighthearted. Compare the 70s themes of both shows with the MGHSH theme -- the latter just feels totally out of place to me.[/quote]I must disagree with this assessment. I thought with the futuristic looking set, the dark opening with the large (video wall?) that it fit in very well.[/quote]
Circle gets the square. I thought MGHSH's theme was excellent too, even if it wasn't very MG-esque. Hell, it even sounds good as a car cue on TPIR 24 years later.
By the way, Orion, what do you think of the Davidson HSq theme? That wasn't exactly "lighthearted" either.
[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'197669\' date=\'Sep 19 2008, 12:04 AM\']As for themes that don't really fit the show...the '86 theme to Card Sharks is devoid of any excitement, IMO, whatsoever.[/quote]
Wait, if CS'86's theme was "devoid of any excitement", wouldn't that mean that it did fit the show?
[quote name=\'GrandMasterGalvatron\' post=\'197623\' date=\'Sep 18 2008, 04:07 PM\']
If we're gonna talk about lack of melody, then I'll definitely pitch a vote for toady's Wheel theme.[/quote]
Hehe, "pitch a vote", was that intentional?
Most modern theme songs, to me, are just background music in search of a melody, Wheel's current mess being no exception. (Actually, CS'86's theme didn't really have a melody either.)
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[quote name=\'TenPoundHammer\' post=\'197696\' date=\'Sep 19 2008, 09:20 AM\']
Circle gets the square. I thought MGHSH's theme was excellent too, even if it wasn't very MG-esque. Hell, it even sounds good as a car cue on TPIR 24 years later.
By the way, Orion, what do you think of the Davidson HSq theme? That wasn't exactly "lighthearted" either.
[/quote]
Well, maybe I'm in the minority on this one. I do think the theme fits the tone of the overall production; I guess I just think the whole production was a bit odd, especially with respect to the MG half. Not bad, just odd. (I think I said this before, but this is actually one of my favorite game show themes, and I'm glad it's still around as a TPIR cue.)
Now that I think about it a little more, maybe it would never have bothered me if it had just been a HS theme. I think what I'm reacting to is that MGHSH felt, to me, like they'd bolted MG on to an episode of HS, and I never thought the MG part seemed to fit.
I think the Davidson HS theme fits that show fine, but I've never been a huge HS fan.
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[quote name=\'StevenRosenow\' post=\'197680\' date=\'Sep 19 2008, 02:59 AM\']You ask any longtime Trebek-era Jeopardy! fanatic (and taking a trip to the Jump the Shark website) and the general consensus is that the Steve Kaplan mixes to the Jeopardy! theme just simply did not fit the show (neither did Naomi Slodki's set designs) at all. Insomuch as I hate to say it, the remixes to the theme, the awful sets (and that Clue Crew) are the very reasons I RARELY watch Jeopardy! anymore. In fact, Jeopardy! lost its soul when they dropped the original electronic theme and ditched the electronic neon set in 1997.[/quote]I've been a longtime Jeopardy! watcher, and I've stuck through all the set-changes, rule changes, music changes and I'm still watching 25 years later.
I am surprised that someone would be so completely put-off by all the chrome that they'd stop watching.
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As someone who tremendously dislikes the current set, this show falls into the same category as Pyramid IMO. That is, the show could be played in a cold, dark basement, but as long as I'm seeing the general gameplay as intended, I'm intrigued.
1. Three contestants still buzz in to give correct responses in the form of a question.
2. Six categories are shown a game board, each with five dollar values of equally increasing increments.
2a. Three pre-selected clues are hidden, which only one may answer, wagering their money in doing so.
2b. Dollar values double in round two.
3. Three contestants get to wager their (positive) earnings on one final clue.
There are reasons not to watch a show...obnoxious contestants (nighttime D/ND), gameplay that is completely cold and devoid of any excitement (Donnymid), ridiculous changes that actually turn a classic into a clusterfrick (Card Sharks 01, Tempta-shun). A set is not one of them, and I think the Jeopardy! set is a horrible mish-mash.
/Loved the NY and Million Dollar Masters sets
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'197737\' date=\'Sep 19 2008, 09:30 PM\']
[quote name=\'StevenRosenow\' post=\'197680\' date=\'Sep 19 2008, 02:59 AM\']You ask any longtime Trebek-era Jeopardy! fanatic (and taking a trip to the Jump the Shark website) and the general consensus is that the Steve Kaplan mixes to the Jeopardy! theme just simply did not fit the show (neither did Naomi Slodki's set designs) at all. Insomuch as I hate to say it, the remixes to the theme, the awful sets (and that Clue Crew) are the very reasons I RARELY watch Jeopardy! anymore. In fact, Jeopardy! lost its soul when they dropped the original electronic theme and ditched the electronic neon set in 1997.[/quote]I've been a longtime Jeopardy! watcher, and I've stuck through all the set-changes, rule changes, music changes and I'm still watching 25 years later.
I am surprised that someone would be so completely put-off by all the chrome that they'd stop watching.
[/quote]
I'm a longtime Trebek-era Jeopardy! fanatic. I don't care.
Travis, look who made the post. Considering that this is the same guy who demanded that David Livingston find someone to take over his website so he could look at it or just keep it up, not getting it kind of is in his blood.
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I did not demand he keep his site up. You took what I said completely out of context.
Why don't you give it up, already? Jesus christ, that thread was a couple weeks ago. If that. IN. THE. PAST.
And BTW, I'm no idiot like you may think I am.
/rant.
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[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'197739\' date=\'Sep 19 2008, 07:55 PM\']
Travis, look who made the post. Considering that this is the same guy who demanded that David Livingston find someone to take over his website so he could look at it or just keep it up, not getting it kind of is in his blood.[/quote]
I remember a request. Poorly-constructed, somewhat out-of-line, sure, but I think to call it a "demand" is misrepresenting it a great deal.
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'197737\' date=\'Sep 19 2008, 10:30 PM\']
I am surprised that someone would be so completely put-off by all the chrome that they'd stop watching.
[/quote]
Jeopardy has probably the most solid game of anything we've seen since The Challengers. I'd keep watching regardless of chrome, probably.
I liked the sushi bar set, personally.
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[quote name=\'tpirfan28\' post=\'197752\' date=\'Sep 20 2008, 08:11 AM\']I liked the sushi bar set, personally.[/quote]Assuming that the set to which you refer was the one from the mid/late 1990s, I take issue with the phrase "sushi bar" as shorthand for "wood paneling and frosted glass were on sale." I have never been to a sushi bar that looks like that, and am dismayed that this particular meme persists.
Going back to the original topic, I don't think any themes are "mismatched". Sure, some "feel" right, or they grow on you and if you heard another piece of music, you'd say "Aw, no way could that ever be the theme to Who's Got My Pants?, but if you heard the second piece first, it would be the other way around.
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'197767\' date=\'Sep 20 2008, 03:10 PM\']
[quote name=\'tpirfan28\' post=\'197752\' date=\'Sep 20 2008, 08:11 AM\']I liked the sushi bar set, personally.[/quote]Assuming that the set to which you refer was the one from the mid/late 1990s, I take issue with the phrase "sushi bar" as shorthand for "wood paneling and frosted glass were on sale." I have never been to a sushi bar that looks like that, and am dismayed that this particular meme persists.
[/quote]
The "Sushi Bar" description was given to the 1997 Jeopardy! set by a newspaper columnist when he was describing it. It caught on, and it became known as the "sushi bar set" in the game show circle (and FWIW, there are a few local sushi bars that actually come close to resembling that set here in Washington state).
I know Jeopardy! themselves described it differently (describing it as a modern, contemporary library foyer or a den) but the public never perceived it as such. It was also widely panned by the critics. I remember many a newspaper columnist describing it as gawdy and too "blockish" in design.
But anywho...
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'197745\' date=\'Sep 20 2008, 05:22 AM\']
[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'197739\' date=\'Sep 19 2008, 07:55 PM\']
Travis, look who made the post. Considering that this is the same guy who demanded that David Livingston find someone to take over his website so he could look at it or just keep it up, not getting it kind of is in his blood.[/quote]
I remember a request. Poorly-constructed, somewhat out-of-line, sure, but I think to call it a "demand" is misrepresenting it a great deal.
[/quote]
I don't think so for this reason: he basically went and called David lazy for not wanting to keep his site up and refused to listen to reasons for why it was a sensible solution.
If it ain't a demand it's pretty close. And I don't know what context Dr. Steve-O wants me to take it in.
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[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'197806\' date=\'Sep 21 2008, 12:38 PM\']
I don't think so for this reason: he basically went and called David lazy for not wanting to keep his site up and refused to listen to reasons for why it was a sensible solution.
If it ain't a demand it's pretty close. And I don't know what context Dr. Steve-O wants me to take it in.[/quote]
*sigh*
I guess I should take solace in the comfort that some things just will never change.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'197807\' date=\'Sep 21 2008, 02:43 PM\']
[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'197806\' date=\'Sep 21 2008, 12:38 PM\']
I don't think so for this reason: he basically went and called David lazy for not wanting to keep his site up and refused to listen to reasons for why it was a sensible solution.
If it ain't a demand it's pretty close. And I don't know what context Dr. Steve-O wants me to take it in.[/quote]
*sigh*
I guess I should take solace in the comfort that some things just will never change.
[/quote]
Yeah, including the fact that you're apparently unwilling to listen to people's reasoning behind their opinions.
Enough already.
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[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'197808\' date=\'Sep 21 2008, 12:46 PM\']
Yeah, including the fact that you're apparently unwilling to listen to people's reasoning behind their opinions.[/quote]
You're operating under the assumption that I was unwilling to listen to it. I was. Your reasoning was full of assumption, based on weasel words like "basically," and in its last sentence actually admitted that I might have been right.
Enough already.
I am drowning under the irony.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'197810\' date=\'Sep 21 2008, 03:45 PM\']
[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'197808\' date=\'Sep 21 2008, 12:46 PM\']
Yeah, including the fact that you're apparently unwilling to listen to people's reasoning behind their opinions.[/quote]
You're operating under the assumption that I was unwilling to listen to it. I was.[/quote]
The Chris Lemon Dismissive Sigh (patent pending) threw me completely off.
I'm not saying I expected you to agree with it, just to have a little more maturity in responding to it.
Your reasoning was full of assumption, based on weasel words like "basically," and in its last sentence actually admitted that I might have been right.
But I still don't see how you can take Dr. Steve-O's remarks as anything less that either a demand or ordering David to do something that he just doesn't want to do anymore and a completely selfish gesture on his part.
And I think that his post assuming that every J! watcher thinks like he does was even more weaselly, if such a word exists, than mine could have been.
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[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'197837\' date=\'Sep 21 2008, 11:13 PM\']
The Chris Lemon Dismissive Sigh (patent pending) threw me completely off.[/quote]
It's already trademarked.
I'm not saying I expected you to agree with it, just to have a little more maturity in responding to it.
Again, the irony is suffocating.
But I still don't see how you can take Dr. Steve-O's remarks as anything less that either a demand or ordering David to do something that he just doesn't want to do anymore and a completely selfish gesture on his part.
Because, um, they weren't? Is it really that difficult?
Am I defending his comments? Not just no, but HELLS no.
Was it a stupid position for the good Doctor to take? Laws, yes. And I said as much at the time.
But it was not a demand.
And I think that his post assuming that every J! watcher thinks like he does was even more weaselly, if such a word exists, than mine could have been.
Which pertains to this current discussion...how?
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'197838\' date=\'Sep 22 2008, 01:34 AM\']
[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'197837\' date=\'Sep 21 2008, 11:13 PM\']
The Chris Lemon Dismissive Sigh (patent pending) threw me completely off.[/quote]
It's already trademarked.[/quote]
Oh crap...
I'm not saying I expected you to agree with it, just to have a little more maturity in responding to it.
Again, the irony is suffocating.
So is the condescension.
Alright, no more on this on either side. Agreed?
But I still don't see how you can take Dr. Steve-O's remarks as anything less that either a demand or ordering David to do something that he just doesn't want to do anymore and a completely selfish gesture on his part.
Because, um, they weren't? Is it really that difficult?
Am I defending his comments? Not just no, but HELLS no.
Was it a stupid position for the good Doctor to take? Laws, yes. And I said as much at the time.
But it was not a demand.
Well, I guess we're gonna have to agree to disagree on that one. I thought it was, you thought it wasn't.
And I think that his post assuming that every J! watcher thinks like he does was even more weaselly, if such a word exists, than mine could have been.
Which pertains to this current discussion...how?
Accusing me of using unnecessary weasel words in my post when an even better example existed, is all.
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[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'197839\' date=\'Sep 22 2008, 12:08 AM\']
Well, I guess we're gonna have to agree to disagree on that one. I thought it was, you thought it wasn't.[/quote]
Clearly.
Accusing me of using unnecessary weasel words in my post when an even better example existed, is all.
The "but he did it too!" defense? Argumentum ad Tattletale? Really?
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'197840\' date=\'Sep 22 2008, 03:41 AM\']
Accusing me of using unnecessary weasel words in my post when an even better example existed, is all.
The "but he did it too!" defense? Argumentum ad Tattletale? Really?
[/quote]
No.
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[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'197855\' date=\'Sep 22 2008, 11:09 AM\']
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'197840\' date=\'Sep 22 2008, 03:41 AM\']
The "but he did it too!" defense? Argumentum ad Tattletale? Really?
[/quote]No.[/quote]
Then, do tell, what was that, if not that?